Convince me we should support clough

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The worrying thing for me, was yesterday in the Radio Sheffield interview, when Nigel finally mentioned the lack of height in our team. Did he really look at the Scunthorpe team yesterday and suddenly realise "hang on a minute, those lads look a lot taller than ours?". Our tallest outfield player is only 6ft 1, not tall in the modern game (McEvely).

Nigel does seem to make some strange decisions; Butler for one, Collins never even making the bench another, unproven Ilkeston lads getting first team appearances and Diego being shipped out to York, etc., but he is not the worst manager in the world and does have good qualities. People calling for Clough to go should be careful what they wish for.......
 

Ian Holloway then ?
Why not?

He knows how to win promotions. He has also won a couple of playoff finals which wouldn't be a bad thing to have on your
CV given our current sutuation.

Maybe too long out of lg1 would be the only thing going against him. But he'd have to be considered surely.
 
For the sake of the club he needs to go.
re-actionary rubbish.

He has been given a task until the end of the season. If he doesn't make the play offs,he will be deemed as failed and the Board will probably sack him. If we get in the play offs but don't go up i suspect he will be giving few months but not much money to spend.
,Sacking him now doesn't guarantee promotion.

I am net saying we are playing well but yesterday was no where near as bad as Gillingham away and there was less of a re-action. Our away form is not the problem in general it is our home form which will stop us going up.

The time for decision making from the Board is the end of the season and not now
 
Ian Holloway then ?
One of my favourite managers. A lot of my friends who have met him say he is fluent in BSL as his daughters are deaf and has been guest of honour at British Deaf football presentation evenings and has been doing coaching sessions. I feel sad that he hasnt been having much success lately
 
For the sake of the club he needs to go.

We are all talking like the season is up, missed the play offs and the club is in disarray . Plenty to play for and although performances have been poor , we are so poor we will confuse the opposition , and win the play off final .

May not win next Tuesday though.

UTB
 
May not win next Tuesday though.

It IS a concern, been to Walsall a few times to watch the Blades... the record is terrible, no wins, no draws, nothing... I live in hope of a change, and the good news is that I have always fancied us for a result there... my expectations lower this time... Fingers crossed.
 
I have been saying for a while we are going nowhere with Nigel clough as manager. Loads of derby fans I know said when he took over he was one dimensional, no plan b , negative, had favourites who he had to play etcetc

I am not sure changing manager is the answer but can anyone make the case for a good future with NC ...

Genuine Question
I can't but we are too deep into this season to consider changing [whether that's the right decision or not].

He's going to see this season out [which I think is the right call] and he'll most likely start next. OBVIOUSLY, it depends hugely on what happens between now and the end of the season, however, if we don't make it up [or make a genuine fist of it] the pressure on him and his team will be turned up - game by game.

If the season completely 'fizzles out', then they might be prompted to do something in May / June. Any new guy coming in would rightly expect a budget and a decent run at it before the start of next season.
 
One of my favourite managers. A lot of my friends who have met him say he is fluent in BSL as his daughters are deaf and has been guest of honour at British Deaf football presentation evenings and has been doing coaching sessions. I feel sad that he hasnt been having much success lately

Mrs Ken has BSL level 3 :)
By contrast I can just about spell my name :oops:
 
It IS a concern, been to Walsall a few times to watch the Blades... the record is terrible, no wins, no draws, nothing... I live in hope of a change, and the good news is that I have always fancied us for a result there... my expectations lower this time... Fingers crossed.
Didn't we get a draw the other season ? and we deffo won when Browny hit a 20 yard screamer when we were down to ten men so I assume you have only been going there the last couple of seasons.

We have won 3 and drawn two of our last 5 away league games despite the dour football we are playing. We will need to make a couple of changes if Freeman and Coutts are injured but there are reasons for a little bit of hope in away games.
 
Didn't we get a draw the other season ? and we deffo won when Browny hit a 20 yard screamer when we were down to ten men so I assume you have only been going there the last couple of seasons.

We have won 3 and drawn two of our last 5 away league games despite the dour football we are playing. We will need to make a couple of changes if Freeman and Coutts are injured but there are reasons for a little bit of hope in away games.

The first one I went to was some cup match years ago, but it's been down to bad luck, the matches I go to have been losses. I've not been there for a couple of years and then took myself off the JPT match this season. Got tickets for Family HB to go on Tuesday... Hey! Cloughy! give me a tenner and I won't go.
 
I think a few of the signings have been with a development view, see Adams, Holt, Wallace, even Scougall. He's looking to young players to develop. I don't mind that but have a concern around the established straight in to the first team players like Coutts and Higdon for example. Higdon hasn't really worked out and he seems to be suffering with injuries. Coutts isn't fit enough to warrant starting for me although despite what some on here see I do think he has the makings of a good player. Basham was a big signing but he's ended up playing in a different role to what he first thought. The other Wallace looks good but has had a torrid time with injury. Even at the back he did try and use McCarthy to address the issue but it didn't work as planned despite being a good signing in principle.

I'd have liked more effort on bringing established first teamers in. I'd have liked a bit of a wider scouting net. I'd absolutely like a loan CH beast.

He has to see out the season. Sacking Wilson before the end of the season still irks me despite being bored most of that season. I'd even be inclined to say he should see out the whole of the next season if we don't go up. If he's the man we've picked to trust, we should trust him. Let the development players develop and see if we can add to the first team.

My post is tempered by being exasperated by some of the decisions. The CB pairing on the opening day still beggers belief. He's also quite consistent in playing someone out of the blue and then when they do well only giving them cameos. See Adams v Swindon as an example.
 

A few points which, for me, are in Clough's favour:
  • Passing football - I like the fact that we do get it down and play
  • He is emphatically not one-dimensional: egs (1) after dominating possession but without much end product told the players to get the ball forward quicker, they did. (2) has tried 4-4-2 - it doesn't really suit our squad (3) has won ugly - away at Rochdale (4) several of Bergen Blade's tactical analyses which show how we switch formations within games (modern football) (5) the experiment of trying to catch Coventry unaware after half time by coming out and having a go at them (backfired - but well worth a try)
  • Negative? See above - trying to attack with 10 men
  • Does respond positively to setbacks (see above)
  • Acknowledges faults eg comments in interviews and changes relating to eg set pieces - and plenty of other things
  • Is not arrogant - see all of the above (this accusation is utterly baffling to me)
  • Players play without fear in big (cup) games. If we get into the play-offs I wonder if he can conjure up this fearlessness again.
  • Besides all that he's a really decent person (I know this doesn't win games but I had to include it bc to me it stands out.)
There are others.

I really like what Clough is doing.

If we're languishing mid-table next season it might be time for a change but till then I fully support what he's doing.
Spot on
 
I think, with the benefit of hindsight, we (myself included) underestimated the size of the job Clough faces.
When we went down there was a general consensus that we were flailing around in the dark, without any identity or philosophy, switching from Blackwell hoof to Speed slow build up to Adams god knows what that was.
A large number of supporters, including the vocal ones who attended the forums, wanted us to be more like Swansea, to go up through the leagues playing passing football. For the club to be rebuilt on stronger foundations.

Unfortunately, for reasons that belong in another thread, we didn't rebuild. Dw1 kept a core of players that were mainly top end of the championship level and used them to play good football. What he didn't do, is build below this enough. In terms of building, which translates as bringing in good young players to provide a supply line for the future, he signed KM, Murphy, Flynn and Blackman.
Once we failed to go up, we lost most of our good players and replaced them with short term veterans like Kitson and Robson. When we again failed to go up, they went and we were left with very little. You could argue that our only good players were KM and Harry; Murphy and Flynn had yet to show their quality, Collins and Doyle solid but no more than that. The rest, slightly above average L1 players.

When Dw2 took over we had to seriously rebuild not just the squad but the first team. We barely had a first eleven of senior players and certainly not one good enough to mount a serious challenge. Weir's rebuilding was poor and hampered further by the late sale of KM. He gave us the worst team I have ever seen at the Lane.

When Clough came in, he worked a minor miracle and most of us thought we'd found the new Bassett. We assumed he'd work another miracle and we'd piss the league. Not an unreasonable assumption under the circumstances.
It hasn't happened. Our preseason seemed chaotic, exacerbated by the late loss of Harry, when it looked like he was staying, and the bizarre bust ups with Butler and Collins. Our recruitment appeared to be done on the cheap, backed up by comments from above about how we wouldn't spend big money until we got back into the Championship.
Clough has had to bring in a lot of players, for both the first team and squad, to make up for three years of neglect and bad management at all levels.

In simple terms, the more players you have to bring in, the higher the likelihood is of getting some of them wrong. So whilst a lot have been decent signings, we've also had the likes of Higdon and Butler, who haven't worked out.
What we do have is a squad that contains some solid pros, a bit of quality and a good number of young players that could develop into some real stars for us.
The JTW is the first time since relegation from the PL that a manager had been allowed to spend serious money (relative to the league we're in). The players haven't gelled properly yet, it happens in football, it doesn't mean they won't. Injuries and suspensions haven't helped.

Yes, Clough has made mistakes, all managers do. At the moment we look awful. But to allow him to spend the money he has and then to sack him six weeks later because it hasn't had an instant impact is fucking madness.

He has shown enough in the year and a bit he's been with us to demonstrate he is moving us in the right direction. It's to slow for a lot of supporters but I'm not convinced there are many who could have done it any quicker.

Sacking Clough now would deter other decent managers from joining us. Looking at the big picture, this season has been disappointing but nowhere near bad enough to warrant sacking the manager. It's not Clough's fault that we've been here for four seasons and that we've constantly sold our best players and replaced them with crap.

I honestly don't think we're that far away, nor do I think overall he's doing a bad job. At least give him the time to see it through.

What a great post, one of the best on here in recent weeks.

Crazy as it sounds, I think there are a lot of similarities with Clough's season and Van Gaal's and Man United.

Both have had a big budget for their respective leagues, both have spent big in comparison to their competitors. Both have been caught between two styles of play, had ongoing issues with central defense, have had problems with forwards. Some signings have worked, some haven't. Both have the remit of trying to get immediate success and also build for the future.

Now both are struggling to succeed - question is, do you sack the manager and get in a new one, or struggle through the rough patch in hope that if you persist it will turn good.

For every bad result or bad run Clough has had, the critics conveniently forget the good results, good runs and cup matches. Surely those positive results and run's would suggest Clough isn't a complete numpty.

As painful as it is at the moment, and unlikely that we will go up this year, we should stick with him. I agree with Bushblade, I don't think we are that far away. If we don't go up this year we should give him another shot at it next year. Look at the 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 seasons under Warnock. They were pretty poor after the success of 02-03. He got it right in 2005-2006 though.
 
If clough was going to be a success he would have done it by now. He's won nowt and done nowt. He's not over night going to turn into a winner playing winning football. Cup runs are fine but I want to win cups . I want to win the league not struggle to get into the play offs. If we stick with him what's he going to do nowt because I don't think he knows what to do. Buy more players who are not up to it. I don't particularly dislike him or like him as a man but I don't think he's the right man for us. I can honestly say I think he has only got on in football because of his dad. I know people will disagree with me over that but his record as a manager is rubbish as for sacking him now not sure. I'd get rid at the end of the season no matter what happens.
 
Just checked my Facebook, dont recognise her although she and I have 17 mutual friends (one of them is an ex-girlfriend of mine) and most of them are from the Midlands area

Hmmm Midlands.
Wonder why that is ;)

(ex girlfriend - you old dog, you, Silent)

Mrs Ken nominated Ruth for one of the National treaching awards and Ruth was one of the three or four finalist at a swanky do in London - 2013 I think.
 
The "Prince", Jim Phipps and the rest, including Mcabe are a different kettle of fish these days. Cloughs here long term.

As we are in league 1 and have not got the luxury of the Sky TV financial deal , the main 3 major stakeholders in the blades are the McCabe family , Mr Prince and us fans. Our investment is the purchase of season tickets which help the clubs cash flow and keep them ticking over.

The only return we want for this investment is emotional joy / gratification , feel good factor by promotion , cup run in part , and avoiding relegation. The main criteria is promotion.

If this is not achieved fans will vote by there pockets and feet , with season tickets / revenue dropping . , This will affect the club financially and a reworking of the business plan will have to be carried out , with even back room staff redundancies taking place ., or the directors will have to pump more money in to keep it afloat , which then means less money available for player recruitment.

The crux to the blades business plan , is to have a football manager who knows what he is doing , and only sack him , if really necessary , with under achievement and the knock on effect with incoming revenue.

They do say continuity does bring and breeds success . However the life span for a football manager is two years , and SUFC have to consider cutting there losses now or at the end of the season , if success looks like not being achieved . Clough has to answer to the board , and if results do not go our way , starting again tomorrow night at Warsaw , the cosy relationship between the board and management , may well be dwindling .

Last seasons results mean nothing on the balance sheet , and the financial projection for 2015 / 16 , will be determined if we are in league 1 or the championship. This could also mean selling the clubs assets , which is players.

If promotion is not gained this season , Clough will be judged on both the lack of achievement , both in football and future financial terms.

At this moment , the jury is out on both.

UTB
 
As we are in league 1 and have not got the luxury of the Sky TV financial deal , the main 3 major stakeholders in the blades are the McCabe family , Mr Prince and us fans. Our investment is the purchase of season tickets which help the clubs cash flow and keep them ticking over.

The only return we want for this investment is emotional joy / gratification , feel good factor by promotion , cup run in part , and avoiding relegation. The main criteria is promotion.

If this is not achieved fans will vote by there pockets and feet , with season tickets / revenue dropping . , This will affect the club financially and a reworking of the business plan will have to be carried out , with even back room staff redundancies taking place ., or the directors will have to pump more money in to keep it afloat , which then means less money available for player recruitment.

The crux to the blades business plan , is to have a football manager who knows what he is doing , and only sack him , if really necessary , with under achievement and the knock on effect with incoming revenue.

They do say continuity does bring and breeds success . However the life span for a football manager is two years , and SUFC have to consider cutting there losses now or at the end of the season , if success looks like not being achieved . Clough has to answer to the board , and if results do not go our way , starting again tomorrow night at Warsaw , the cosy relationship between the board and management , may well be dwindling .

Last seasons results mean nothing on the balance sheet , and the financial projection for 2015 / 16 , will be determined if we are in league 1 or the championship. This could also mean selling the clubs assets , which is players.

If promotion is not gained this season , Clough will be judged on both the lack of achievement , both in football and future financial terms.

At this moment , the jury is out on both.

UTB
I wouldnt want our fans to behave like Sunderland fans did when they tried to get to Poyet last Saturday. If this happened then the Prince and McCabe would give up in making investments. If I was filthy rich, then I wouldnt buy any club cos nowadays fans have high expectations and easily change their minds about the manager (they would sing praise for the manager but do the opposite in a few months time)
 
(ex girlfriend - you old dog, you, Silent)

.

This ex-girlfriend's surname was Currie when I was out with her in 1983/84. How many of this forum members have had girlfriends whose surname was the same of any Blade player in that 1971 team?
 
I wouldnt want our fans to behave like Sunderland fans did when they tried to get to Poyet last Saturday. If this happened then the Prince and McCabe would give up in making investments. If I was filthy rich, then I wouldnt buy any club cos nowadays fans have high expectations and easily change their minds about the manager (they would sing praise for the manager but do the opposite in a few months time)

In the midst of mayhem and disaster, there is humour - one Sunderland fan rang the local radio station to say that he was staying until full-time so as to beat the traffic.

Good on you sir :)
 
I wouldnt want our fans to behave like Sunderland fans did when they tried to get to Poyet last Saturday. If this happened then the Prince and McCabe would give up in making investments. If I was filthy rich, then I wouldnt buy any club cos nowadays fans have high expectations and easily change their minds about the manager (they would sing praise for the manager but do the opposite in a few months time)

Agree , and if that happened at the lane , i am certain Clough would resign and The Prince would commence to pull out , any investment now or in the future .

My own opinion on all things blades , we have to go with Clough , and the continuity route , as changing managers is one of the reasons ( not the sole reason ) , we are in the league we are in.

The decision will be the boards , but can be very much influenced by the fans , but in the right way and manner.

Also the fact is we are 5th , and still a great chance of reaching the play offs and winning them. We would be then be suicdal to change horses at this stage . Like always us fans perhaps have more responsibility and clout than we actually realise , but it has to channelled in the correct way , not like at Sunderland

UTB
 
Agreed, milord - I confess that my thinking is ruled by over 55 years of disappointment, but if, at the start of the season, you'd offered me a point at Scunthorpe and a place in the play-offs, I'd have bitten your hand off there and then.
 

Agree , and if that happened at the lane , i am certain Clough would resign and The Prince would commence to pull out , any investment now or in the future .

My own opinion on all things blades , we have to go with Clough , and the continuity route , as changing managers is one of the reasons ( not the sole reason ) , we are in the league we are in.

The decision will be the boards , but can be very much influenced by the fans , but in the right way and manner.

Also the fact is we are 5th , and still a great chance of reaching the play offs and winning them. We would be then be suicdal to change horses at this stage . Like always us fans perhaps have more responsibility and clout than we actually realise , but it has to channelled in the correct way , not like at Sunderland

UTB
I am hoping that Palace will overtake Newcastle in the league table so that will put the egg on the faces of the Newcastle fans for creating the toxic atmosphere for Pardew. Sometimes fans do need a reality check
 

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