Convince me we should support clough

[GB10]

I have been saying for a while we are going nowhere with Nigel clough as manager. Loads of derby fans I know said when he took over he was one dimensional, no plan b , negative, had favourites who he had to play etcetc

I am not sure changing manager is the answer but can anyone make the case for a good future with NC ...

Genuine Question

 

[Gavlar]

I have been saying for a while we are going nowhere with Nigel clough as manager. Loads of derby fans I know said when he took over he was one dimensional, no plan b , negative, had favourites who he had to play etcetc

I am not sure changing manager is the answer but can anyone make the case for a good future with NC ...

Genuine Question

Whilst he is the manager of the team we should support him. How is not supporting him going to get the team to play well?

if he gets the sack then we fully support the next bloke.

I don't like where we are either, but sacking managers has got us into the mess we are now.....

 

[metalblade]

Whilst he is the manager of the team we should support him. How is not supporting him going to get the team to play well?

if he gets the sack then we fully support the next bloke.

I don't like where we are either, but sacking managers has got us into the mess we are now.....

No appointing shit managers has got us where we are now.

 

[Gavlar]

No appointing shit managers has got us where we are now.

And selling our best players and replacing them with worse ones.

However, if we stuck with Colin we would not be in the 3rd div

 

[robbiez666]

I think a point away to say Bristol C or Preston is perfectly fine, but not at teams below the top 6-8. Especially at this stage in the season and with our home form.

The only reasons I can come up with for keeping him at the moment are:

1. too late for another manager to change things
2. Fed up of changing managers
3. Given our recent track record, our next manager won't be an improvement.

He's completely lost me. His post-match comments today were ridiculous.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Whilst he is the manager of the team we should support him. How is not supporting him going to get the team to play well?

if he gets the sack then we fully support the next bloke.

I don't like where we are either, but sacking managers has got us into the mess we are now.....

Its ok calling for the mangers head on the forum , but doing it , when watching the blades , would be self defeating , as the players , for what ever reason , look like they are already lacking confidence to me. No idea what Clough is like behind closed doors , but if he was a nasty piece of work , i am sure we would have heard by now .

Gavier , agree . We are in this shit with being trigger happy and making the wrong appointments . In saying all that Clough does not help himself , as you don't have to be a brain surgeon , to know whats been wrong with the team since pre season.

UTB

 

[Chezzy Blades]

I think the players on the pitch need to look at themselves just as much as NC.

The tactics weren't negative today and the team had a decent balance. Aside from bringing a centre half in this week i'm not sure what more Clough could have done with the selection and formation today. A number of players are under performing and letting him down.

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

I can't think of any positives for Clough on top of my head, apart from he bought in Brayford and Done.
My opinion of him as really gone down hill since last season, where I had an endless list of reasons to support him. Shame really.

 

[alcoblade]

No appointing shit managers has got us where we are now.

Yes, amongst other things.

A contributing factor is that so many fans wanted a change in philosophy, that we put achieving that above winning. Clough is a classic case of this. So was Wilson. Probably approaching 3 decades in management between them, and about 3 promotions in total. Neither have got a team out of this division.

If we dispense of Clough, we must throw this "ethos" bullshit right out of the window. We mustn't constrain the next manager with the same shackles that have coincided with the worst period in our history.

It's about winning football matches first and foremost. Those losing sight of that have contributed enormously to this mess.

UTB

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Not being able to get to matches live recently (only watched them on BP) I haven't been able to get the sense of the player's moods but the general impression I am getting is that there is a growing sense of lack of belief and loss of confidence. Am I right in thinking this? If I am does this suggest that NC and co are beginning to lose the dressing room. That would be worrying if that was the case.

 

[Blade82]

I'd only approve of replacing him if it was someone who'd actually won a promotion out of this league. No point doing what we did with Wilson and just crossing our fingers whilst hoping for a reaction.

 

[Blade56]

Whilst he is the manager of the team we should support him. How is not supporting him going to get the team to play well?

if he gets the sack then we fully support the next bloke.

I don't like where we are either, but sacking managers has got us into the mess we are now.....

Is not about getting him sacked it's about telling him (and the players) most don't like this negative brand of football, the piss poor results it delivers and we would expect better given the resources and support they continue to enjoy.

We've done the "it's the fans fault" no it's not and it won't be their fault when crowds drop 3/4,000 next season and we get in a downward spiral.

We sing praise when it's going good it's normal to moan when it's shit!

 

[Gavlar]

Is not about getting him sacked it's about telling him (and the players) most don't like this negative brand of football, the piss poor results it delivers and we would expect better given the resources and support they continue to enjoy.

We've done the "it's the fans fault" no it's not and it won't be their fault when crowds drop 3/4,000 next season and we get in a downward spiral.

We sing praise when it's going good it's normal to moan when it's shit!

I seem to remember several mangers being brand as playing negative football in the past, such as Warnock, Blackwell, Robson, Wilson, Weir and now Clough.
We seem to obsess over it. For me I couldn't give a monkeys about the style of football, I want my team to win.

But whoever said it was the fans fault? Fans always come off worst from these things as they are probably the only ones who genuinely care.
I understand moaning, I totally do, to be potentially going into the 3rd div for ANOTHER season next year would be unbelievable given our resources and fan base and even players.

I think at this stage in the season we stick with Clough and if we miss the playoffs then sack him at the end of season. We did the opposite when we sacked Wilson and it made no difference (and probably made us worse).

 

[Erad]

I'd only approve of replacing him if it was someone who'd actually won a promotion out of this league. No point doing what we did with Wilson and just crossing our fingers whilst hoping for a reaction.

Nigel Adkins is available...

Look what he did with Southampton, who were in exactly the same hole a few years ago

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I have been saying for a while we are going nowhere with Nigel clough as manager. Loads of derby fans I know said when he took over he was one dimensional, no plan b , negative, had favourites who he had to play etcetc

I am not sure changing manager is the answer but can anyone make the case for a good future with NC ...

Genuine Question

He could be our Dario Grady given time.

 

[GB10]

He could be our Dario Grady given time.

This is kind of my point from the original post ... Does anyone see enough positives to think that with time he can take this club forward

 

[Blade56]

I seem to remember several mangers being brand as playing negative football in the past, such as Warnock, Blackwell, Robson, Wilson, Weir and now Clough.
We seem to obsess over it. For me I couldn't give a monkeys about the style of football, I want my team to win.

But whoever said it was the fans fault? Fans always come off worst from these things as they are probably the only ones who genuinely care.
I understand moaning, I totally do, to be potentially going into the 3rd div for ANOTHER season next year would be unbelievable given our resources and fan base and even players.

I think at this stage in the season we stick with Clough and if we miss the playoffs then sack him at the end of season. We did the opposite when we sacked Wilson and it made no difference (and probably made us worse).

Gavlar the reference was to a thread about a week ago. NC had made some comment re fans (problem with a bloke in row 10) and an interesting and lively debate ensued re if the fans being quiet and/or booing were partly to blame. The old usual chicken and egg debate. I agree, moaning is a bit like booing no one wants to here it but when it's going bad it happens born of frustration. I always draw the analogy that telling fans not to boo when things are going bad is a bit like telling fans not to cheer when things are going good. Yeh, I moan (rarely boo) but footy evokes emotion, it's like seeing a fit lass and getting a stiffy, it's natural.
As for sacking NC I think it's to late, if it was going to happen it should have been early January at the latest. That being said look at Barnsley

 

[grafikhaus]

...I'm not sure what more Clough could have done with the selection and formation today. A number of players are under performing and letting him down.

After sixteen months, several million quid and remarkable patience from board and fans, if players are 'under performing and letting him down', I utterly fail to see what possible role Clough has any more.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

After sixteen months, several million quid and remarkable patience from board and fans, if players are 'under performing and letting him down', I utterly fail to see what possible role Clough has any more.

Fair point. After my post it did occur to me that he put this team together and the deficiencies it has are down to the group of players he's assembled.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

A few points which, for me, are in Clough's favour:

• Passing football - I like the fact that we do get it down and play
• He is emphatically not one-dimensional: egs (1) after dominating possession but without much end product told the players to get the ball forward quicker, they did. (2) has tried 4-4-2 - it doesn't really suit our squad (3) has won ugly - away at Rochdale (4) several of Bergen Blade's tactical analyses which show how we switch formations within games (modern football) (5) the experiment of trying to catch Coventry unaware after half time by coming out and having a go at them (backfired - but well worth a try)
• Negative? See above - trying to attack with 10 men
• Does respond positively to setbacks (see above)
• Acknowledges faults eg comments in interviews and changes relating to eg set pieces - and plenty of other things
• Is not arrogant - see all of the above (this accusation is utterly baffling to me)
• Players play without fear in big (cup) games. If we get into the play-offs I wonder if he can conjure up this fearlessness again.
• Besides all that he's a really decent person (I know this doesn't win games but I had to include it bc to me it stands out.)

There are others.

I really like what Clough is doing.

If we're languishing mid-table next season it might be time for a change but till then I fully support what he's doing.

 

[AnonymousBlade1995]

I have been saying for a while we are going nowhere with Nigel clough as manager. Loads of derby fans I know said when he took over he was one dimensional, no plan b , negative, had favourites who he had to play etcetc

I am not sure changing manager is the answer but can anyone make the case for a good future with NC ...

Genuine Question

Name me a manager we could get who has a track record of promotion

 

[GB10]

Name me a manager we could get who has a track record of promotion

I am not saying I've got the answer mate or a name up my sleeve - I am genuinely trying to take the emotion out of it ( that we are all feeling at the minute ) and asking even if we are in this division next year are we better off with him

 

[AnonymousBlade1995]

I am not saying I've got the answer mate or a name up my sleeve - I am genuinely trying to take the emotion out of it ( that we are all feeling at the minute ) and asking even if we are in this division next year are we better off with him

sorry did not mean to sound like having a go just making a point they is nobody better right now we can get

 

[Dkc]

Name me a manager we could get who has a track record of promotion

Neil Warnock

 

[Bladesway]

After sixteen months, several million quid and remarkable patience from board and fans, if players are 'under performing and letting him down', I utterly fail to see what possible role Clough has any more.

At what point is less than a complete season showing any patience whatsoever. Fuck me some people get lost in their own agenda so much they appear to think the bloke has had forever.

If we don't go up this season then questions should be asked. Until then we should shut up talking bollocks about sacking managers at a ridiculous point of the season and get on with it. End of season is the time for shit slinging. Right now people asking for the managers head are serving no positive purpose 10 games from the end of a season.

 

[Bladesway]

Neil Warnock

Dave Bassett got us out of this division before let's wheel him out. Or we could try for someone who doesn't tick blade bladey bladeness points just for once.

 

[alcoblade]

Name me a manager we could get who has a track record of promotion

We should have gone for that horrible fat bloke at Rotherham when they were promoted from the 4th.

I doubt it would be popular though. I think we need another 10 years in the third division to be fully cleansed. Then we can concentrate on winning football matches over worrying about weight, rough players, people wearing baseball caps or saying nasty things.

About a month or so ago many fans were slating Preston for being physical at BDTBL. Simon Grayson got the usual abuse, having the audacity to employ people over 6ft tall. Even that bully Kevin Davis. Grayson is another winner that would have been sniffed at, about to get his 4th promotion in a short career.

But thankfully we've got this new ethos thing going on.

UTB

 

[Dkc]

After following football for almost 40 years I've come to the conclusion that there's more randomness and chance in the game than people like to think. To guarantee you're going to win almost every week you need massive, Man City-style investment. Even Cardiff or QPR-type investment isn't enough. You basically need the equivelant of three teams - a big squad comprising some of the world's fastest, strongest and most skillful athletes. Even then you could lose to Burnley.

If you can't have that you're going to win some games and lose others. Managers can have good seasons and bad seasons. Groups of players can have good seasons and bad seasons too. Sometimes a team achieves positive results after sacking a manager and sometimes the results get worse. It probably has nothing to do with the new man in charge.

When a rubber ball hits a solid object like a boot at a fast pace, there's no way of telling what will happen. Of course, it's possible to hit a sweet pass or demonstrate good link up play but with 50/50 challenges and goalmouth scrambles the ball can end up anywhere - in the net or in the stand. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. Such situations can be as random as tossing a coin.

 

[Silent Blade]

After following football for almost 40 years I've come to the conclusion that there's more randomness and chance in the game than people like to think. To guarantee you're going to win almost every week you need massive, Man City-style investment. Even Cardiff or QPR-type investment isn't enough. You basically need the equivelant of three teams - a big squad comprising some of the world's fastest, strongest and most skillful athletes. Even then you could lose to Burnley.

Man City tried 442 against Burnley today but they lost!

 

[alcoblade]

After following football for almost 40 years I've come to the conclusion that there's more randomness and chance in the game than people like to think. To guarantee you're going to win almost every week you need massive, Man City-style investment. Even Cardiff or QPR-type investment isn't enough. You basically need the equivelant of three teams - a big squad comprising some of the world's fastest, strongest and most skillful athletes. Even then you could lose to Burnley.

If you can't have that you're going to win some games and lose others. Managers can have good seasons and bad seasons. Groups of players can have good seasons and bad seasons too. Sometimes a team achieves positive results after sacking a manager and sometimes the results get worse. It probably has nothing to do with the new man in charge.

When a rubber ball hits a solid object like a boot at a fast pace, there's no way of telling what will happen. Of course, it's possible to hit a sweet pass or demonstrate good link up play but with 50/50 challenges and goalmouth scrambles the ball can end up anywhere - in the net or in the stand. Sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. Such situations can be as random as tossing a coin.

Over a short period you are definitely correct. But there's a reason teams like Man Ure and Chelsea top the premiership and Hartlepool are at the bottom of the 4th - that's not chance.

Also, managers who've done it 4 and 5 times - that's not luck.

UTB