Collins, Baptiste and Gegenpressing.

[1danewhitehouse]

Whilst in a lot of ways, the signing of Alex Baptiste seems to follow the “same owd” mould of experienced players on the way down after suffering injuries…. I think there might be one notable change which might point to a more positive future in terms of the re-build. The swap between Baptiste and Collins at centre half seems to have resulted in us playing a higher line which means against Oldham, we were able to press high up the pitch (an example being the build up to the first goal).

Adkins talked about pressing as a unit and the fitness required to do it. That seems like a positive sign that he is looking for players who will be mobile enough to adopt a Gegen-pressing approach. Less Coutts and Baxter, more Basham and Done. It then becomes about us becoming well drilled at it but I certainly think it’s a step in the right direction.


Now for a bit of doom and gloom though. I don’t think it’s going to work against Millwall as I think they are a fitter, stronger, faster side than us. I can see us coming up short in that one. But it’s an approach I hope we seem more of and that we see a recruitment plan that nurtures it.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

 

[Balham]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

German for "press against", it's one of Jürgen Klopp's favourite tactics. It's a concept that every player in a team should be actively pressing the opposition high up the pitch to win the ball back and needs incredibly high fitness levels to be done effectively.

 

[Ecco1889]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

it's German for running up and down the pitch

 

[west_yorks_blade]

German for "press against", it's one of Jürgen Klopp's favourite tactics. It's a concept that every player in a team should be actively pressing the opposition high up the pitch to win the ball back and needs incredibly high fitness levels to be done effectively.

Pioneered in the late 1930's against Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, France etc.

 

[Blade56]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

The direct translation is counterpressing.

We used to play the huffenpuff system upto Collins leaving. Now he's gone and Adkin's saw a Liverpool game he wants us to play he German system introduced by Klopp called the gegenpress system playing much further in the oppositions face than our old huffenpuff style

 

[west_yorks_blade]

We used to play the huffenpuff system upto Collins leaving. Now he's gone and Adkin's saw a Liverpool game he wants us to play he German system introduces by Klopp called the gegenpress system playing much further in the oppositions face than our old huffenpuff style

Collins utilised the Shoutandblame system. Didn't catch on with the rest of the team though.

 

[Bladesman]

We used to play the huffenpuff system upto Collins leaving. Now he's gone and Adkin's saw a Liverpool game he wants us to play he German system introduced by Klopp called the gegenpress system playing much further in the oppositions face than our old huffenpuff style

We had more of a jigglypuff style up to Collins leaving.

 

[Blade56]

Collins utilised the Shoutandblame system. Didn't catch on with the rest of the team though.

And he fans suffered from schadenfreuder system

 

[Jostein's Bandage]

I have a gegenpress, i picked it up a few years ago in Argos, Dusseldorf.

It's pretty much the German version of the Corby press. It has vays of making your trousers flat.

 

[Balham]

Collins utilised the Shoutandblame system. Didn't catch on with the rest of the team though.

He left his mark at Port Vale too - I heard (second hand, admittedly) that it was not a good idea to point out Collins' fault in any goals conceded. He and Doyle were "horrible".

FWIW Micky Adams and Chris Wilder also did not come out of that conversation with any credit whatsoever ("dinosaurs", whose idea of training is "running a lot").

 

[nopigfansintown]

You could see that this is the way Adkins wanted to play from the start, but we're handicapped by the type of midfielders we've got. We have gone from an expansive four four two, to narrow four four two, now to five three two.
A real problem when playing four four two was the lack of pace: this problem is endemic throughout the team and handcuffs NA tactically. Collins (in particular) dropped too deep which makes the gap between back four and midfield far too big. The central midfielders have neither the pace nor athleticism to cover this overlarge gap and protect us defensively . Of course then the strikers are left isolated, particularly as the game wears on and covering the big gap is physically a bigger challenge. To counteract this lack of pace in CH and CM, NA played narrow (in midfield) and allowed Brayford to play like a wingback in a back four – otherwise how could we carry the ball forward without merely lumping it. This left us vulnerable out wide on the right – especially as we began to tire. You really are on a hiding to nothing if you played in CM or RB/RWB for the blades (unless you love running marathons two or three times a week!).A side issue is the general fitness of players which only exacerbated the structural failings in our shape. When playing five three two with a higher line, we can now crowd the middle of the park, and not get exposed there so often. The midfielders are higher up the pitch and can get close to the two upfront. It also allows our wing backs to have a higher starting position, and become part of a de facto midfield five, rather than a deep lying back five, when we are too deep (see Burton game). The defensive line is absolutely key to three five two being successful. The game at Millwall will be a good test, as they'll use a lot of long, early diagonal balls, and the temptation is to drop back rather than squeeze them higher and render the target man inconsequential (from open play at least).

 

[Barney]

What is Bergen-pressing?

 

[blade too long]

The Gegen press 2000

 

[Jostein's Bandage]

You have one too then? Mine is slightly different, it has jack boots on the bottom to stop it slipping.

Oops sorry. I got slightly confused there by everybody mentioning the war.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

A German trouser press.


Collins turned up with his trousers looking like they’d just come out the dryer.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Has the back 3 of Baptiste, Edgar and McEveley loads of pace to burn then? (Excuse the pun and is he fast too?).

 

[Jon Bon]

The Gegen press 2000

View attachment 16546

The Gegen Press 1939

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Neill Collins, pointing out a teammate's failure to gegenpress -

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Whilst in a lot of ways, the signing of Alex Baptiste seems to follow the “same owd” mould of experienced players on the way down after suffering injuries…. I think there might be one notable change which might point to a more positive future in terms of the re-build. The swap between Baptiste and Collins at centre half seems to have resulted in us playing a higher line which means against Oldham, we were able to press high up the pitch (an example being the build up to the first goal).

Adkins talked about pressing as a unit and the fitness required to do it. That seems like a positive sign that he is looking for players who will be mobile enough to adopt a Gegen-pressing approach. Less Coutts and Baxter, more Basham and Done. It then becomes about us becoming well drilled at it but I certainly think it’s a step in the right direction.


Now for a bit of doom and gloom though. I don’t think it’s going to work against Millwall as I think they are a fitter, stronger, faster side than us. I can see us coming up short in that one. But it’s an approach I hope we seem more of and that we see a recruitment plan that nurtures it.

Adkins talked to Baxter about this high line stuff, but apparently he got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Elyo]

Pioneered in the late 1930's against Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, France etc.

It was the tactical revelation of the early 40s until the legendary Russian coach Zhukov introduced the ahead of its time nanesti otvetnyy udar sil'neye

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

There's a good article here.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...opp-liverpool-gegenpressing-borussia-dortmund

Holding a high line and pressing are hardly radical innovations but Klopp extended the idea when he was at Dortmund.

I'm not sure Adkins is after gegenpressing specifically just the ability to hold a high line and press the ball.

As quite a few posters have pointed out it was Collins' limitation that meant we couldn't do this with him in the team.

This doesn't make him a bad player, it just means he's not suited to that system.

One of the Arsenal centre backs was.criticised for exactly the same thing the other day against Watford - and I'm pretty sure he's an experienced international.

Googled: Mertesacker - who's got a World Cup winners medal.

 

[blade too long]

]The Gegen Press 1939

thats my dad driving the second truck, was a group holiday in the Sudatenland

 

[west_yorks_blade]

]The Gegen Press 1939

thats my dad driving the second truck, was a group holiday in the Sudatenland

I thought it was the Handsworth Blades calling at a pub on the way to milwall?

 

[Karaoke Blade]

This doesn't make him (Collins) a bad player, it just means he's not suited to that system.
/QUOTE]

Give it up WHF

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

It's something to do with endeavouring to win a game of football in the arena.

 

[Worksop II]

]The Gegen Press 1939

thats my dad driving the second truck, was a group holiday in the Sudatenland

Chuffin ell, imagine the cost of Alloys for one of those

 

[BerksBlade]

In the words of Mike Bassett: "Gegenpress - my arse!"
It's just a German re-badging of the "Gerrintoem" system used successfully by the Blades in the late 1890s.


...probably.

 

[BerksBlade]

Chuffin ell, imagine the cost of Alloys for one of those

I don't think they had an AMG version in those days.

 

[Bladesway]

Has the back 3 of Baptiste, Edgar and McEveley loads of pace to burn then? (Excuse the pun and is he fast too?).

I'm only guessing here but you must have been made up with the signing of Baptiste. Strong, athletic.....