Collins, Baptiste and Gegenpressing.

[William Henry Foulkes]

Collins might be a bad player in some people's eyes - but if this inability to hold a high line is the sole reason then Mertesacker, similarly unable to hold a high line apparently, is also a bad player, and he's got a FIFA World Cup (TM) winner's medal.

 

[GRENO]

I'm a bit confused here. If Adkins wanted to play a pressing game from the start, which requires fit athletic players with plenty of pace.
then why sign Sammon, Woolford and Hammond.

The only person more confused than me, with our tactics and what we are trying to achieve is Adkins himself.

 

[JohnDenver]

Collins might be a bad player in some people's eyes - but if this inability to hold a high line is the sole reason then Mertesacker, similarly unable to hold a high line apparently, is also a bad player, and he's got a FIFA World Cup (TM) winner's medal.

Anyone can hold a high line. It might be exploited by the opposition, but if you're asked to do it, then you do it... Seems Collo wasn't willing.

 

[Latters]

Whoop whoop whoopa gegenpress

 

[bricktop]

Collins might be a bad player in some people's eyes - but if this inability to hold a high line is the sole reason then Mertesacker, similarly unable to hold a high line apparently, is also a bad player, and he's got a FIFA World Cup (TM) winner's medal.

Have you just compared the player who has epitomised more than any other why we are still in this godforsaken fucking division with a German World Cup winning defender?

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'm only guessing here but you must have been made up with the signing of Baptiste. Strong, athletic.....

If you mean our anomalous situation will gradually right itself then yes of course it will.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Have you just compared the player who has epitomised more than any other why we are still in this godforsaken fucking division with a German World Cup winning defender?

Yes. Yes he has.

 

[Bladesway]

Have you just compared the player who has epitomised more than any other why we are still in this godforsaken fucking division with a German World Cup winning defender?

They are both over their respective hill.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Mertesacker struggles playing a high line ergo Collins isn't a bad player.

Got it.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'm a bit confused here. If Adkins wanted to play a pressing game from the start, which requires fit athletic players with plenty of pace.
then why sign Sammon, Woolford and Hammond.

The only person more confused than me, with our tactics and what we are trying to achieve is Adkins himself.

Agree and on the fateful day in question when a player "refused to play to the plan" how on earth was Collins picked for the role in the first place if we were playing that 'high line' and why did he play the full 90 minutes? Maybe he wasn't in fact the guilty player on the day but it seems a big coincidence if not. I've an impression of Collins that suggests to me he would not be slow to express his reservations in the pre-match meeting and I'd be amazed if he was so unprofessional to just ignore the plan on the day. Another thing that strikes me is the fact that we have only Basham who plays at the back in a 3 and has any pace. Certainly Edgar and McEveley have no turn of speed and have to give themselves a yard, though McEveley is prepared to just take out the opponent for as long as he dare. I've not noticed whether Baptiste is that quick either, maybe he is.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!

 

[northsomersetblade]

A high line ist zuper until the opposition boot the ball past us and run onto it before our brave lads can turn and puffnpant after them.

We need to be fitter to play like that. Arbeit macht frei.

 

[Jostein's Bandage]

So that's two Gegen Presses, a Prawn Goebbels, two dodgy centre backs and four Colditz Salads.

 

[mickerz-blade]

It was pointed out after the Burton game that players were not playing to Adkins instructions and loads jumped stating it was Coutts who Adkins was criticising. When you think about one of the best players we have to get this working, Adkins may well have been criticising Billy Sharp for not helping to get this going in that game. The player who started to try and make this happen then gave up because of Billy's lack of interest.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Has the back 3 of Baptiste, Edgar and McEveley loads of pace to burn then? (Excuse the pun and is he fast too?).

Well, Baptiste is the fastest of the 3 whereas Collins was the slowest of the 3 he played in. Edgar is probably the slowest of the remaining 3 but doesn't seem as determined to drop deep as Collins. Basham's also reasonably mobile for a defender so that gives us another option.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Well, Baptiste is the fastest of the 3 whereas Collins was the slowest of the 3 he played in. Edgar is probably the slowest of the remaining 3 but doesn't seem as determined to drop deep as Collins. Basham's also reasonably mobile for a defender so that gives us another option.

Basham was chosen at the back for that Burton game and Edgar was in midfield, maybe that was significant. However they were switched after about 20 minutes to make the back 3 slower. Who didn't play to plan and how can that happen when all 3 players stayed on the pitch for the full game?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Basham was chosen at the back for that Burton game and Edgar was in midfield, maybe that was significant. However they were switched after about 20 minutes to make the back 3 slower. Who didn't play to plan and how can that happen when all 3 players stayed on the pitch for the full game?

I suspect Collins didn't play to plan being the one that's been binned. But, I don't think the change in system was entirely down to that. I think we were losing too much in midfield and the idea was Basham would give us more legs in there.

 

[grafikhaus]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

It's the latest example from 'The Ladybird Book of Excuses' for Adkins. You'd think that you play to a style that most suits the players you have, not waste almost an entire season blaming Collins for your deficiencies.

I really worry about NA. If you rely on one system, the opposition will quickly suss it out. Millwall, Bury, Shrewsbury and many others beat us and it was nothing to do with 'gegenpressing', it was because they had fitter and more determined players than Adkins seems to put all his faith in.

It's not as if Wenger is blaming the two defeats against Barcelona on their style of play, he knows his players and adapts to suit - or tries to. This is Division 3 FFS, and if Adkins is relying on 'gegenpressing' while signing old crocks like Hammond, next season will be a relegation battle.

 

[Blade56]

.......German system introduced by Klopp called the gegenpress system playing much further in the oppositions face than our huffenpuff style

B56 ITK, proof I know the man's inner thoughts....


From Sheffield Star, Adkin's interview.... We went one behind and that was the catalyst really," Adkins told BBC Radio Sheffield. "We had good spells, we got crosses in, the keeper made a really good save from Billy Sharp. We huffed and puffed a bit, put some really good corners in, in good areas, but nobody really threatened and got on the end of it, which we could have done

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It's the latest example from 'The Ladybird Book of Excuses' for Adkins. You'd think that you play to a style that most suits the players you have, not waste almost an entire season blaming Collins for your deficiencies.

I really worry about NA. If you rely on one system, the opposition will quickly suss it out. Millwall, Bury, Shrewsbury and many others beat us and it was nothing to do with 'gegenpressing', it was because they had fitter and more determined players than Adkins seems to put all his faith in.

It's not as if Wenger is blaming the two defeats against Barcelona on their style of play, he knows his players and adapts to suit - or tries to. This is Division 3 FFS, and if Adkins is relying on 'gegenpressing' while signing old crocks like Hammond, next season will be a relegation battle.

That’s a load of agenda driven nonsense. You have a go at him for sticking with one system but this season but he’s probably played more systems in one season than any manager in my lifetime (442, 451, 433, 425, 352 etc). You also reckon he’s blamed an entire season on Collins. He’s done nothing of the sort. After one game, he said a player didn’t play to the game plan. He never blamed the player and has been protective of the players all season. You talk about him putting faith in these players. What choice has he had? He’s been able to bring in 5 players (6now with Baptiste). All but one have been a loan or a freebie. That one costing a third of what we received for our best player sold from under him. He’s tried just about every combination of players imaginable and they’ve all let him down. If they do well in one game and he sticks with them, they invariably rest on their laurels and let him down in the next game. They did the same thing to Clough. He’s got shut of a lot of them now but more still to do. Then he needs to bring quite a few in to have any chance of achieving anything. He needs to bring in better than what he has so far but he needs to be given the resources to do that.

 

[blade67]

I think we've conceded 9 in 11 since Baptiste came in compared to 45 in 33 (or an average of 15 in 11)

For all the mediocrity on show in the last two seasons the absence of a commanding centre half has been the biggest issue at this club

Well done Adkins, now who are you going to bring in permanently?

 

[SwissBlade]

I think we've conceded 9 in 11 since Baptiste came in compared to 45 in 33 (or an average of 15 in 11)

For all the mediocrity on show in the last two seasons the absence of a commanding centre half has been the biggest issue at this club

Well done Adkins, now who are you going to bring in permanently?

I questioned the timing of bringing him in when we did but we've certainly tightened up since he came in and Collins went.

We're looking much more solid, but with Baptiste and Edgar both heading out in the summer we STILL need to address the defensive issues

 

[super_pig]

What the chuff is a gegenpress?

this weeks style model. it has taken over from tikka takka

 

[super_pig]

He left his mark at Port Vale too - I heard (second hand, admittedly) that it was not a good idea to point out Collins' fault in any goals conceded. He and Doyle were "horrible".

FWIW Micky Adams and Chris Wilder also did not come out of that conversation with any credit whatsoever ("dinosaurs", whose idea of training is "running a lot").

hurrah.. i've been saying on this very forum for years that our downward spiral coincided with the arrival of Collins and Doyle and we wouldn't start to go back up until we got rid of them. it took five years. onward and upwards

 

[Fulwood Blade]

yes, well done for posting that - agree totally.

First time I saw Collins was the piggy match away (think NW brought him in on loan) - he "looked" average when on loan and then Adams made it permanent a few years later.

As for Doyle - it was why Adams took us down - Doyle and Monty in centre midfield - jeez............and we talk now about having creative midfield players.

yes, part of the problem we went down and why we stayed down.

UTB

 

[Booker4]

He left his mark at Port Vale too - I heard (second hand, admittedly) that it was not a good idea to point out Collins' fault in any goals conceded. He and Doyle were "horrible".

FWIW Micky Adams and Chris Wilder also did not come out of that conversation with any credit whatsoever ("dinosaurs", whose idea of training is "running a lot").

I have to say something here. Totally get that some players and fans alike will see Adams and Wilder as dinosaurs. But at the end of the day, the results that both of those two managers have done over the years says they know what they are doing and I dare say Harry Bassett and Warnock are in that mould too, although Warnock is known probably for good man management more than anything else. Managers like Wilder are seen as old school but their results show that they have a successful approach, its just that some players want to play more football than running, and I totally get that, but the fact Wilder's just got another promotion says he has got something about him; I couldn't care how much running his players do!

We seem to alternate from a more Adams, Wilder type who invariably play direct/percentage football and when that doesn't work out (half the time because the club hasn't given the manager enough time or resources) we employ the polar opposite like Weir and to a lesser extent Adkins and for both types of managers at least half the squad doesn't fit the managers style of play! Many fans have slagged Adkins off for not shifting out the players he didn't want but its to his credit that he didn't just and shift them out because invariably there wouldn't have been takers to compete with the wages that many of the players are on, and Adkins had to play players that clearly he wouldn't have signed but he has had to use them because the budget and the time frames haven't allowed him the change things quicker. Its been obvious that the team spirit has been pants this season with so many unused players and it must have been a nightmare for Adkins and the coaching staff at times.

Can I just add, Collo and Doyle may not have been the best at pitch diplomacy or the most skilfull, but at least they clearly cared far more than many a player who's been fortunate to play for us over recent seasons and they both did a job for us, particularly when we had a manager in Wilson who could get the best out of players. McCabe should hold his head in shame over that sacking. Doyle in particular was a leader and we need more of them, not the current crop of whining social media types like Scougall who hasn't performed for 2 years now.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Gegenpressing is so last week. It's all about sdrammatizzare now...

http://www.theguardian.com/football...ieri-gentle-man-leicester-city-premier-league