Clubs in the Mire

[Mad Mick]

Just been watching Football Focus, they were talking about clubs going into administration and clubs who are teetering on the edge. I wonder where we are in the football league when it comes to debt?
I've looked on the net to see if I can find the level of debt for each club.
I've seen one for the Prem, but nowt for the Championship. I would guess though that if the brown stuff really does hit the fan in the next few years we are one of the clubs that are more likely to survive.

 

[JohnDenver]

Just been watching Football Focus, they were talking about clubs going into administration and clubs who are teetering on the edge. I wonder where we are in the football league when it comes to debt?
I've looked on the net to see if I can find the level of debt for each club.
I've seen one for the Prem, but nowt for the Championship. I would guess though that if the brown stuff really does hit the fan in the next few years we are one of the clubs that are more likely to survive.

Yeah but never mind that. I'm going to lie on my back and kick my legs in the air until we sign Dietmar VanNostrilboy.

McCabe out!

 

[Robbie]

If I recall rightly, United have about £27 million worth of debt - including hotel etc.

 

[Mad Mick]

As much as that?
I thought it was about £3 million. Never thought about the real estate.

 

[Linz]

If I recall rightly, United have about £27 million worth of debt - including hotel etc.

I thought the hotel wasn't actually a real "debt"- It was just the mortgage that the Copthorne were paying on that piece of land to United?

Anyway, a definite answer will be provided soon, as the annual report/final results are due.

 

[Robbie]

I thought the hotel wasn't actually a real "debt"- It was just the mortgage that the Copthorne were paying on that piece of land to United?

I'm probably wrong, but I'm sure I read some figures regards a £27 million debt, of which £13 million was a 'loan' from BoS for the hotel.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I'm probably wrong, but I'm sure I read some figures regards a £27 million debt, of which £13 million was a 'loan' from BoS for the hotel.

This is correct as far as I understand things. £13m or there abouts was the loan for the hotel. However Copthornes payments in the rental agreement more than cover the cost, so as I understand it, the debt is about £13m in real terms, of which £7m is to be repaid to Scarborough as described in numerous threads on here. Leaving a debt of £6m, a figure oft quoted as being the true debt of the club. Believe of all this what you will, no doubt BB will tell us what a 'reight con' McCabe is pulling.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I'm probably wrong, but I'm sure I read some figures regards a £27 million debt, of which £13 million was a 'loan' from BoS for the hotel.

Not me, pal

 

[judge]

so ,one way of looking at sheffield united is that they are in less debt than when mccabe took over with far,far,far more assets

had a season in the prem and the ground is far superiour to the old wreck we used to play in


i can see why people want him out

 

[derrywan]

my home town club Derry City FC have just been turfed out of the League of Ireland for being totally skint. That's despite a couple of decent sales of players to celtic this year, winning the cup last year, top 3 last few years in the league and having games in Europe. There's tough times ahead for a lot of clubs - especially those who don't have property and other commercial assets like the blades do. I reckon we're one of the most financially sound for the long term. Derry City's ground was owned by the local council, for example, and so there were absolutely no assets to leverage additional finance or borrowing on to manage debt against income over a longer peiriod. Blades are superbly placed to manage for a long term future. In the blue square, clubs like Cambridge United are in a similar position with the ground in private hands, punitive lease deals and an ever decreasing squad impacting on league finishing position year after year. there's a lot of it about.

 

[Robbie]

so ,one way of looking at sheffield united is that they are in less debt than when mccabe took over with far,far,far more assets

No,

The way to look at is.... we currently have more 'debt' than when McCabe took over, but we have more net assests.

So yes, he's done a good job.

 

[Revolution]

the ground is far superiour to the old wreck we used to play in

A bit of an exaggeration. Whilst the improvements McCabe has overseen are tangible, the work done in the 10 years before McCabe took over was much more extensive than the work done since. The ground was very far from a wreck in 1999.

 

[MAQ]

If I recall rightly, United have about £27 million worth of debt - including hotel etc.

I think that your wrong in this instence Robbie

I thought the hotel wasn't actually a real "debt"- It was just the mortgage that the Copthorne were paying on that piece of land to United?

Anyway, a definite answer will be provided soon, as the annual report/final results are due.

I believe, if memory serves me right, that you wont need the annual report. If you or anyone else looks back through the transcript from the Q&A session, i believe that this was raised then, with a similar figure to Robbie being mentioned in the question.

I cant remember the exact answer off the top of my head, but i believe it was something similar to what linz has said. I'll try and have a look back and see

 

[Revolution]

I believe, if memory serves me right, that you wont need the annual report. If you or anyone else looks back through the transcript from the Q&A session, i believe that this was raised then, with a similar figure to Robbie being mentioned in the question.

I'll take the AR and Accounts over anything that was said in that session every time.

 

[Robbie]

I think that your wrong in this instence Robbie

There's a first for everything

 

[MAQ]

I believe, if memory serves me right, that you wont need the annual report. If you or anyone else looks back through the transcript from the Q&A session, i believe that this was raised then, with a similar figure to Robbie being mentioned in the question.

I'll take the AR and Accounts over anything that was said in that session every time.

I take your point completely, however until such a time that the reports are publicised what other evidence do we have

There's a first for everything

The world must have tilted from its axis if this is the case

 

[MAQ]

covered under part one of the transcript, so professionally compiled by linz, is the answer.

From your perspective, how would you describe the club's financial state right now?

Hey, the club's in very, very, very good financial health. You've heard me talk before, our bank debt... and banks really don't exist to fund football clubs anymore at the moment... it's alright me going to Barclays, HSBC, HBOS or anyone else to say loan me £10million to fund Sheffield United. banks are out of business to football clubs. Our bank debt towards football, and I don't know if my colleague Simon Capper is around, is nominal. Nominal is somewhere around £5million.

The principle debt we may have as a football club is a long term mortgage over our hotel which is geared purely towards property, not connected to the football debt, it's a ringfence facility and it's of terms that were agreed before the world went mad. So we are in a very good financial state. What I say to all fans, now I have being say this for a year or so, is no one, but no one who is responsible for the good health and wealth of the football club must ignore the recession that the UK is in. It's a fact of life. I'm sure there are many examples that all you could quote to me about problems that you're facing. This is a difficult time.

As a football club that still wants to make progress, we have to make sure we don't overstep the mark. I reckon, that we've still probably got the highest player wage bill in the Championship, bar the three teams coming down. Now we've got to make sure that's affordable. Some of that is made affordable by having these off-the-field business divisions where all my colleagues, and executive colleagues are charged with increasing income so we can invest more in the first team football because that's the core to make us really successful. I don't lose sight of the times we're in, I'd be a very irresponsible Chairman if I did.

 

[Robbie]

covered under part one of the transcript, so professionally compiled by linz, is the answer.

So it shows that we have 'football debt' and 'none football debt'.
They still come under ebt, no matter how we wish to sugar coat it.

So from that answer it would appear debts are at £18 million

 

[beightonblade]

no doubt BB will tell us what a 'reight con' McCabe is pulling.

Its not for me to say that,it might not be true

I admire McCabe as a businessman but not as a Blade.
He can juggle figures around as much as he likes and one thing is certain he will do it legally if at all

Its easy peazy !

 

[MAQ]

So it shows that we have 'football debt' and 'none football debt'.
They still come under debt, no matter how we wish to sugar coat it.

So from that answer it would appear debts are at £18 million

corrected on your behalf

I know where your coming from, and as BB has said above he will have made sure that the 2 arent connected. Overall yes it points towards a. £18m debt, however the structure that he has applied will mean that should the need arise the hotel can be sold off as property and wouldnt effect the club.

The group may hold the debt, but the club hold only a small portion of this.

When all is said and done, the Hotel is a Franchise, and thats where Millenium Copthorn come in. As we hold the property we can then sell the franchise to the highest bidder once any contract is expired.