Cloughie should take a leaf out of his dad's book

[Darren]

Not really when there were people around such as Jimmy Saville and Cyril Smith (after what the media have said/intimated)- teachers were probably mild in comparison.

UTB

But that's the point isn't it. Casual abuse of those weaker than oneself was accepted, which is pretty much how Saville, Smith etc managed to get away with it for so long.

 

[Darren]

In or about 1973 a maths teacher at our school appeared at Sheffield Crown Court for kidnapping. He had chloroformed his housekeeper and tied her up because he thought she was trying to break up the marriage of some friends of his. Pending the court case, he was suspended from teaching, presumably on full pay. He was eventually given a suspended prison sentence, the judge commenting that his motives were honourable even if his methods weren't.

The very next day, he was back at school teaching as if nothing had happened. Unbelievable, but true.

Mind you, he did have to put up for ever after with kids behind his back getting their handkerchiefs out, putting them over their mouths and staggering about only to stand bolt upright as soon as he turned round.

Different times.

Indeed. I remember at my primary school in the late 70's, the senior male teacher (one of only two in the school) had the job of slippering 10-11 year old boys (never girls) in front of the whole class for added humiliation.

Do that now and he'd be looking at 5 years.

 

[Lane Ender]

I,d had a good week if I had,nt been slipperd or cained

 

[sitwell]

But that's the point isn't it. Casual abuse of those weaker than oneself was accepted, which is pretty much how Saville, Smith etc managed to get away with it for so long.

We had 4 PE teachers ,1 was ok ,the other 3 were the worse kind of bullies you could come across and 2 are still very well known names in the football world. Amongst their 'hobbies' they called kids names ,humiliated them ,slippered them ,made us run ridiculous amounts to be as good as Seb Coe who had previously been at our school ,fired golf balls at us ,looked at us very inappropriately ,which I think will eventually catch up with them ,it was very dodgy to say the least and the amount of victims would easily carry a prosecution. Humiliated one boy so much that he became anorexic and eventually died ,his dad who was a well known referee in Sheffield football never recovered and was very angry and bitter up to his death a couple of years ago.
I have spoke to other lads about this recently and in my mind these scum were the worst kind of teachers you could ever have ,it wasn't light hearted or banter ,it was vicious perverted bullying and I hope one day those bastards get locked up.

 

[Darren]

We had 4 PE teachers ,1 was ok ,the other 3 were the worse kind of bullies you could come across and 2 are still very well known names in the football world. Amongst their 'hobbies' they called kids names ,humiliated them ,slippered them ,made us run ridiculous amounts to be as good as Seb Coe who had previously been at our school ,fired golf balls at us ,looked at us very inappropriately ,which I think will eventually catch up with them ,it was very dodgy to say the least and the amount of victims would easily carry a prosecution. Humiliated one boy so much that he became anorexic and eventually died ,his dad who was a well known referee in Sheffield football never recovered and was very angry and bitter up to his death a couple of years ago.
I have spoke to other lads about this recently and in my mind these scum were the worst kind of teachers you could ever have ,it wasn't light hearted or banter ,it was vicious perverted bullying and I hope one day those bastards get locked up.

The only way they will get locked up is if their victims make complaints to the police. Do you know if anyone has done that?

 

[sitwell]

Im pretty certain no one has ,a few of us have discussed it but no one is prepared to take it on. I personally wasn't harmed physically or mentally but im quite a strong character ,Im sure some might have been. Obviously the lad who got the worse died ,and another who was badly bullied and given a nickname died in Africa serving the military.
Its not about any compensation otherwise the prime time would have been in 1992 or 2000 ,but I hope one day it all catches up with 2 of these scumbags. the other is dead.

 

[Darren]

Im pretty certain no one has ,a few of us have discussed it but no one is prepared to take it on. I personally wasn't harmed physically or mentally but im quite a strong character ,Im sure some might have been. Obviously the lad who got the worse died ,and another who was badly bullied and given a nickname died in Africa serving the military.
Its not about any compensation otherwise the prime time would have been in 1992 or 2000 ,but I hope one day it all catches up with 2 of these scumbags. the other is dead.

Fair enough, but obviously if no-one is willing to come forward, nothing will happen.

By the way, it would be a criminal prosecution, not about getting compensation.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

We had 4 PE teachers ,1 was ok ,the other 3 were the worse kind of bullies you could come across and 2 are still very well known names in the football world. Amongst their 'hobbies' they called kids names ,humiliated them ,slippered them ,made us run ridiculous amounts to be as good as Seb Coe who had previously been at our school ,fired golf balls at us ,looked at us very inappropriately ,which I think will eventually catch up with them ,it was very dodgy to say the least and the amount of victims would easily carry a prosecution. Humiliated one boy so much that he became anorexic and eventually died ,his dad who was a well known referee in Sheffield football never recovered and was very angry and bitter up to his death a couple of years ago.
I have spoke to other lads about this recently and in my mind these scum were the worst kind of teachers you could ever have ,it wasn't light hearted or banter ,it was vicious perverted bullying and I hope one day those bastards get locked up.

Presume you are meaning Tapton then?

UTB

 

[sitwell]

Fair enough, but obviously if no-one is willing to come forward, nothing will happen.

By the way, it would be a criminal prosecution, not about getting compensation.

I meant compensation as in selling the story to the press as some would. It would deffo have made NOTW headlines (front page) at the very least.
Do you think it should progress ?

and no not Tapton Fulwood ,there was a lot of it about then I take it or do you mean the Coe angle.

 

[Darren]

I meant compensation as in selling the story to the press as some would. It would deffo have made NOTW headlines (front page) at the very least.
Do you think it should progress ?

and no not Tapton Fulwood ,there was a lot of it about then I take it or do you mean the Coe angle.

The NOTW would not have touched something so potentially libellous unless they were pretty sure a criminal charge would stick.

I am afraid I can't advise you as to whether criminal offences have been committed on the basis of a few lines on a message board What I would say is that if what the teachers did would have been viewed as "reasonable chastisement" by the standards of the time, it probably wouldn't stick. Ditto if the sexual element you implied is limited to "inappropriate looks"

 

[sitwell]

The NOTW would not have touched something so potentially libellous unless they were pretty sure a criminal charge would stick.

I am afraid I can't advise you as to whether criminal offences have been committed on the basis of a few lines on a message board What I would say is that if what the teachers did would have been viewed as "reasonable chastisement" by the standards of the time, it probably wouldn't stick. Ditto if the sexual element you implied is limited to "inappropriate looks"

No it was way beyond that ,not the chastisement ,the 'inappropriate looking' would be more accurate , it was abuse and a criminal charge would surely stick with potentially close on a hundred witnesses that I know of alone ,and that is only my school year.
I do know that if it was my children ,or if my Dad had known ,it would certainly make headlines for other reasons.

 

[Darren]

No it was way beyond that ,not the chastisement ,the 'inappropriate looking' would be more accurate , it was abuse and a criminal charge would surely stick with potentially close on a hundred witnesses that I know of alone ,and that is only my school year.
I do know that if it was my children ,or if my Dad had known ,it would certainly make headlines for other reasons.

If there are a hundred witnesses to something that went on in - what - the late 70's/early 80's? , I suspect the first question that would be asked is why have none come forward in 30 odd years and why did none of the kids report it to their parents (and if they did why did the parents not take it up with the school). This is a mainstream school we are talking about isn't it? Not like a children's home where the kids have no-one to complain to.

I am not denigrating what went on, I am sure it was pretty awful (as I know myself some school teachers could be brutal), but it does seem unlikely that a case where there were said to be hundreds of witnesses to serious abuse and yet no-one came forward for over 30 years would stand up in court.

 

[sitwell]

Different times Darren ,people were much less likely to complain and blindly accept what was going on. Just look at Saville ,Hall ,Harris etc.

 

[Darren]

Different times Darren ,people were much less likely to complain and blindly accept what was going on. Just look at Saville ,Hall ,Harris etc.

I think I am a bit younger than you, so I was at school at roughly the same time and I think we grew up in a similar working class environment and I know that my parents would have been straight round the school if anything like that was going on.

Anyway, I think the defence would have a very strong argument that if hundreds of people witnessed this abuse it is incredible that not even one of them thought to mention it to their parents/or even one parent took action and that not one of those people has raised it in 30 years.

So, on the limited info available, I don't think a criminal prosecutoion would stand up* Sorry!

* Disclaimer: I obviously don't know all the facts.

 

[Lane Ender]

I meant compensation as in selling the story to the press as some would. It would deffo have made NOTW headlines (front page) at the very least.
Do you think it should progress ?

and no not Tapton Fulwood ,there was a lot of it about then I take it or do you mean the Coe angle.

Abbeydale Grange?

 

[mattbianco1]

One purchase of Mr Clough Snr which he wasn't satisfied with was John Sheriden ( the same man that managed Plymouth on Saturday).He was bought to play for Leeds but was swiftly offloaded to our neighbours at S6 after Cloughie saw him training.

Without reading the whole thread. Has anybody pointed out that Sheridan enjoyed 7 years (1982-1989) at Leeds, 8 years AFTER (1974) Brian Clough left Leeds?

 

[sitwell]

Its made me think this thread actually ,I have always thought the Jimmy Saville stuff was a bit odd ,as I why no one said anything ,but I realise we were doing the same. No way would I say to my parents as a 14 year old ,my PE teacher is making everyone show him their cocks ,my Dad would have told me to tell him to fuck off ,but such was the atmosphere of intimidation and hostility ,the no one would have the bottle to do that in those days. this was 1976/77 ,just like Kes.

 

[Grecian2000]

I think I am a bit younger than you, so I was at school at roughly the same time and I think we grew up in a similar working class environment and I know that my parents would have been straight round the school if anything like that was going on.

Its made me think this thread actually ,I have always thought the Jimmy Saville stuff was a bit odd ,as I why no one said anything ,but I realise we were doing the same. No way would I say to my parents as a 14 year old ,my PE teacher is making everyone show him their cocks ,my Dad would have told me to tell him to fuck off ,but such was the atmosphere of intimidation and hostility ,the no one would have the bottle to do that in those days. this was 1976/77 ,just like Kes.

I was going to answer Dazzlers post with, more or less, the same as Sitters.

You didn't "grass" teachers as you know your life would be misery and your parent wouldn't believe you anyway.
I wasn't joking about being pelted with Medicine Balls earlier in the thread, it was regular (we certainly didn't get the inappropriate looks as our games teachers were far more interested in the girls netball team for their kicks) and I once got slapped across the legs during a school match for questioning a games master referee from another school who had no idea of the laws of the game (he wouldn't believe me when I told him an injured defender was playing our forward onside when I put him through on goal. He claimed he wasn't interfering with play!!!!).

 

[Darren]

I was going to answer Dazzlers post with, more or less, the same as Sitters.

You didn't "grass" teachers as you know your life would be misery and your parent wouldn't believe you anyway.
I wasn't joking about being pelted with Medicine Balls earlier in the thread, it was regular (we certainly didn't get the inappropriate looks as our games teachers were far more interested in the girls netball team for their kicks) and I once got slapped across the legs during a school match for questioning a games master referee from another school who had no idea of the laws of the game (he wouldn't believe me when I told him an injured defender was playing our forward onside when I put him through on goal. He claimed he wasn't interfering with play!!!!).

But the stuff you are describing was pretty much accepted in those days and would probably be defined as lawful "reasonable chastisement". I thought Sitwell was alluding to something far more serious.

 

[Grecian2000]

I don't doubt he is Dazzler, anything seemed to go (at our school anyway) by way of bullying and I'm sure some nonce teacher would have escaped being outed as well.

 

[longinthe toothblade]

Clougie Jnr has made quite a number of signings for us but not all have come good for us. His dad wasn't immune from the odd purchase that didn't meet expectations but was smart enough to offload the duds quickly to minimise the adverse effects of playing sub-standard players on team performances.This was in contrast to many managers who are not too keen on admitting their mistakes.

One purchase of Mr Clough Snr which he wasn't satisfied with was John Sheriden ( the same man that managed Plymouth on Saturday).He was bought to play for Leeds but was swiftly offloaded to our neighbours at S6 after Cloughie saw him training.

We have too many sub-standard players on our books, some of which were signed by Nigel that need the same treatment, starting with McCarthy. Let's have a January sale to clear the way for better players, even if fewer in number.

Agree 100%.

 

[sitwell]

Both of you are right ,which school Grecian ?
In fact was anyone in their 1st X1 in 1976/78 ?

 

[Darren]

I don't doubt he is Dazzler, anything seemed to go (at our school anyway) by way of bullying and I'm sure some nonce teacher would have escaped being outed as well.

I dunno. My school was not the most gay friendly placed in the world and whilst bullying was pretty socially acceptable ("tha has to learn to stand up for thissen"), same sex activity was most definitely not. I think if any same sex paedo activity had been going on an industrial scale, it would have got out*

* I can see how if a teacher just concentrates on one or two victims, it can be kept secret, but the more people you involve, the more chance of exposure.

 

[Silent Blade]

Without reading the whole thread. Has anybody pointed out that Sheridan enjoyed 7 years (1982-1989) at Leeds, 8 years AFTER (1974) Brian Clough left Leeds?

Clough signed Sheridan from L**ds in 1989, he played only one League Cup match for Forest, a few months later Wendy's Ron Atkinson signed him from Forest

 

[mattbianco1]

Clough signed Sheridan from L**ds in 1989, he played only one League Cup match for Forest, a few months later Wendy's Ron Atkinson signed him from Forest

Ah right. The OP should've said bought FROM Leeds not FOR Leeds. I get it now. Didn't realise he went to Forest.. Missed that bit which kind of explains the OP

 

[Silent Blade]

Ah right. The OP should've said bought FROM Leeds not FOR Leeds. I get it now. Didn't realise he went to Forest.. Missed that bit which kind of explains the OP

I think Hodgyman mistyped as I am sure he remembered Wendy signed him from Forest

 

[Toronto Blade fan]

Clougie Jnr has made quite a number of signings for us but not all have come good for us. His dad wasn't immune from the odd purchase that didn't meet expectations but was smart enough to offload the duds quickly to minimise the adverse effects of playing sub-standard players on team performances.This was in contrast to many managers who are not too keen on admitting their mistakes.

One purchase of Mr Clough Snr which he wasn't satisfied with was John Sheriden ( the same man that managed Plymouth on Saturday).He was bought to play for Leeds but was swiftly offloaded to our neighbours at S6 after Cloughie saw him training.

We have too many sub-standard players on our books, some of which were signed by Nigel that need the same treatment, starting with McCarthy. Let's have a January sale to clear the way for better players, even if fewer in number.

I agree with you 100% but please add Higdon and Baxter to that list =)

Worried that Clough is a stubborn man and wont do anything.

 

[Shalalalafenoughty]

I strongly suspect that Brian Clough later regretted selling Sheridan so promptly. He was a very good footballer who was terrific for Wednesday for several seasons.

 

[Lane Ender]

I strongly suspect that Brian Clough later regretted selling Sheridan so promptly. He was a very good footballer who was terrific for Wednesday for several seasons.

Steady fella you'll get accused of being a pig fan on here.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Clougie Jnr has made quite a number of signings for us but not all have come good for us. His dad wasn't immune from the odd purchase that didn't meet expectations but was smart enough to offload the duds quickly to minimise the adverse effects of playing sub-standard players on team performances.This was in contrast to many managers who are not too keen on admitting their mistakes.

One purchase of Mr Clough Snr which he wasn't satisfied with was John Sheriden ( the same man that managed Plymouth on Saturday).He was bought to play for Leeds but was swiftly offloaded to our neighbours at S6 after Cloughie saw him training.

We have too many sub-standard players on our books, some of which were signed by Nigel that need the same treatment, starting with McCarthy. Let's have a January sale to clear the way for better players, even if fewer in number.

A lot of talk and debate has taken place on Mr Clough tactics this season.

Mr Clough Senior said

Players lose you games . Theres much crap talked about tactics by people who barley know how to win at dominos.



Cannot wait for what the January transfer window will bring.

UTB