Cloughie: 3 Scenarios

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Worksop_Blade said:
God knows why we sacked Wilson and I doubt getting NN out now would do much good either.

I've put our results this season against the other PO contenders in another thread and they are not pretty. Imagine going to Swindon or MK Dons in an away 2nd leg needing to over turn a 1-0 deficit from the 1st leg?

90 minutes of aimless sidewards passing while the opposition put 10 men behind the ball.

The play offs are not one off FA Cup games against Premier League sides. They are 2 legged dog fights against big physical teams that having already played us twice know our weaknesses.
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I've written us off against the likes of qpr, Fulham and villa away and even Bristol City and mk away this season and they've proved me wrong. Hopefully they do the same. If we don't go up I'll regret sacking or not sacking. We just have to get behind em either way
 

Worksop_Blade said:
I've put our results this season against the other PO contenders in another thread and they are not pretty.
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Not seen the thread/post but taking a little look back it's too hard to call whether league games reflect the playoff outcome

96/97
Ipswich do double over us in league.. We knock them out
We do double over palace... They win final

02/03

Forest win 3-1 on aggregate in league games. We knock them out.
We're undefeated against wolves in league. They beat us in final.

08/09
We're undefeated against preston. We knock them out.
We finish way ahead of burnley. They beat us.

11/12

We lose and draw to Stevenage... We know them out.
Lose to hudds early in season and then beat them at there place. Finish way above them on points. They beat us.

It's a lottery, probably the first playoffs we go in to (if we get there) with no hope. May just surprise us.
 
The fact that we CAN play very well, and have done in the big games, means I'm still optimistic. We'll put up a real fight in the Play Offs if we make it.

However, as has been mentioned elsewhere, we're not going to finish in the top 6 on current form. We badly need a win on Saturday. Another draw or loss and the pressure will be firmly on us - if it isn't already.
 
memorable said:
To outsiders he has got a team that was threatened with relegation into two semi finals in the space of a year. Do you really think no other club will offer him a job? This is why I think he will leave whatever happens, our supporters have delusions of grandeur that no manager could ever meet.
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Not at all (and why is it always the fans fault?). We're patient - incredibly so - but anybody can see which direction this club is going - and a couple of fleeting Cup runs will not disguise it.

Forgetting our 'God-given right to get promotion' (condesending and inaccurate), I see teams like Bristol having players like Emmanuel-Thomas, Agard and Wilbraham. I see Preston with Garner, Davies, Beckford. And I see us trying to compete with the plucky but overwhelmed Murphy, Done and McNulty. Did I forget Higdon? (surely Clough's 'Luton Shelton moment').

Anybody who still maintains that 'we can still make the play-offs' - let alone come through them successfully - has either a) Not seen much of United this season or b) knows very little about football.

Whether people think Clough should go now or later is irrelevant, the damage has been done in terms of both finance and morale. If I decide to spend a 53rd season supporting United next season - by no means certain - I know that, of the good friends and acquaintances I've met who sit behind me, in front of me, beside me, around one in four will be missing.

Thanks for that, Clough.
 
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Dkc said:
The fact that we CAN play very well, and have done in the big games, means I'm still optimistic. We'll put up a real fight in the Play Offs if we make it.

However, as has been mentioned elsewhere, we're not going to finish in the top 6 on current form. We badly need a win on Saturday. Another draw or loss and the pressure will be firmly on us - if it isn't already.
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Herein lies the difference though - pressure. None on us at all in the Cup games and very little at all until the start of the run in this season. First dollop of it since he's been here and we're all over the fucking place.
 
raul said:
Herein lies the difference though - pressure. None on us at all in the Cup games and very little at all until the start of the run in this season. First dollop of it since he's been here and we're all over the fucking place.
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Exactly, I can't see us beating anyone over 2 legs at the moment. We completely blew it last week, let's see how we do in these 3 home games.
 
raul said:
Herein lies the difference though - pressure. None on us at all in the Cup games and very little at all until the start of the run in this season. First dollop of it since he's been here and we're all over the fucking place.
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Byproduct of a fairly young and inexperienced squad. How many of our lot have won won promotions before? Even amid the 28+ here's little who can say 'been there done that'

I'll can accept it as part and parcel of building something more long term but that doesn't seem to correlate with the popular standpoint of promotion is everything. My biggest fear at this point is not getting promotion will see us pressing reset and sending the cycle back to day one.
 
Presty said:
Byproduct of a fairly young and inexperienced squad. How many of our lot have won won promotions before? Even amid the 28+ here's little who can say 'been there done that'

I'll can accept it as part and parcel of building something more long term but that doesn't seem to correlate with the popular standpoint of promotion is everything. My biggest fear at this point is not getting promotion will see us pr

essing reset and sending the cycle back to day one.
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What do mean send us back
We're still at day one
 
Deano said:
Yeah right.

Given the size of our club and the backing Clough has received we should be top 2.
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We all feel like that but generally apart from the likes of Chelsea and Man City football works so well because being the biggest and having the most backing is no guarantee of sucess.

If we did get up this season and found ourselves in the pigs league position next season would we all moan because bigger more well resourced clubs were below us?
Would we want us to lose a few and let them catch us up for fairness, would we bollocks.

Football works because it is fairly unpredictable outside the prem.

Who on here would have have the foresight to go in the bookies and but £1K on Derby only winning two out of their last ten?
No one because umbrella man is perceived as so much better than Clough.

We are a big club in the 3rd but super tankers take some turning.
 
Presty said:
Byproduct of a fairly young and inexperienced squad. How many of our lot have won won promotions before? Even amid the 28+ here's little who can say 'been there done that'

I'll can accept it as part and parcel of building something more long term but that doesn't seem to correlate with the popular standpoint of promotion is everything. My biggest fear at this point is not getting promotion will see us pressing reset and sending the cycle back to day one.
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Agree with us needing to avoid pressing the reset button, hang in there with the slow download.
 
Presty said:
My biggest fear at this point is not getting promotion will see us pressing reset and sending the cycle back to day one.
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Ditto. I can see players like Murphy - and maybe Done - leaving and have little doubt that Brayford has an 'escape clause' in his contract.

So, when the future looked so bright - investment, new pitch etc., the board have, as usual, blown it by employing a manager with absolutely no track record of success.

Tedious football we can accept, as long as it's accompanied by some success. The current rubbish is making Blackwell/Wilson seem like Brazil-like coaches.

Some time in the near future, people will say that 'we didn't give Clough enough time' (just as they did with Wilson). How long is enough? We're haemorraging points - and support - on a weekly basis. No doubt the 'shit-manager-apologists' will reply 'Who could do a better job?' Answer? Probably no-one. The vast majority of managers are a bunch of chancers with a shelf-life of around 30 months.

But that's no reason to keep buying into the madness that football is in thrall to.
 
The Bohemian said:
Win Promotion via Play-offs: New 3 year contract.

Lose in Play-offs: Leave in post and expect Top 2 challenge from the off next season, otherwise 'part by mutual agreement' in October.

Fail to make play-offs: Resign.


I haven't wanted a manager to succeed as much, on a personal level, since Bassett. However, Cloughie's had good backing and the least we should expect this season is a good run in the Play-offs. Failure to finish in the top 6 will mean clubs of far lesser means will have finished above us and this is unacceptable, despite all of the many positives achieved over the past 18 months.

For now, the only option for 'supporters' is to give Cloughie and the team their full backing and do our utmost to make it happen.
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Clough should have at least until October / November but the trouble with that is he will have spent a load more money by then.. Whether he gets that time depends on the owners and whether they have lost confidence in the man. I doubt that is the case.

Personally I would give him the time but ask him to find another Head Scout before the summer. I would also suggest he appoints a new No.2 with energy, optimism and a modern approach. Nigel himself needs regenerating IMO. Morgs? I suspect not.

Just my thoughts!! Of course he wouldn't agree but there lie the issues from my remote viewpoint.
 
mattbianco1 said:
Wow... You've missed two of the defeats. You only linked 9 of the 11.

Maybe I should link all the 15 wins? No... that would just be silly and tedious
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Which was exactly the point Matt - it's easy to cherry pick. To pick two (albeit excellent) results from our season is hardly justification for a great season. I got bored after 9 :)
 
"This is Captain Bligh speaking. We are entering an area of extreme turbulence. Please keep calm and fasten your seat belts. You may experience an acute sense of falling but do not panic. Our tried and tested crew will remain on the job throughout. The crew will now pass amongst you issuing complimentary drinks. Its a little concoction of my own"

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Woodwardfan said:
Clough should have at least until October / November but the trouble with that is he will have spent a load more money by then.. Whether he gets that time depends on the owners and whether they have lost confidence in the man. I doubt that is the case.

Personally I would give him the time but ask him to find another Head Scout before the summer. I would also suggest he appoints a new No.2 with energy, optimism and a modern approach. Nigel himself needs regenerating IMO. Morgs? I suspect not.

Just my thoughts!! Of course he wouldn't agree but there lie the issues from my remote viewpoint.
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I'd take a different approach. I'd look to take control over scouting and recruitment and bring someone with a good track record in. It's been one of our biggest weaknesses and although I don't think Clough has done that bad a job, once he's gone, which will happen at some point, we are reliant on the next manager to have good scouts.

Clubs like West Brom have done this for years, which is why they perform consistently and can change managers frequently. Obviously the final say on players has to be with the manager.

With Clough, we seem to have put all our eggs in one basket.
 
BushBlade said:
I'd take a different approach. I'd look to take control over scouting and recruitment and bring someone with a good track record in. It's been one of our biggest weaknesses and although I don't think Clough has done that bad a job, once he's gone, which will happen at some point, we are reliant on the next manager to have good scouts.

Clubs like West Brom have done this for years, which is why they perform consistently and can change managers frequently. Obviously the final say on players has to be with the manager.

With Clough, we seem to have put all our eggs in one basket.
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How very true. " Eggs in one basket". I frequently say "we have given him the keys to the castle", "unprecedented authority and power" which I approved of a year ago. I know better now.

It looks good if the man is big enough and good enough to achieve success. In failure it looks daft. Let's hope he succeeds!!!
 
WF, currently we have little choice but to hand over the keys to the castle. What does Jim or Baki actually know about football? What experience or qualifications do they hold? Nothing.

The only people with experience are the ones that took us into this division and spent two seasons failing to get us out of it before the Prince arrived.

Just like the scrutiny of Clough's record, what about the record of those above him?
 
Sacking a manager didn't work in the run up to the play off final vs Huddersfield and I reckon clough's displays in big games (ie cup ties vs prem teams) might just force a successful play off campaign.

If all else fails and we get knocked out of the playoffs (or dont even make the playoffs full stop) I cant see clough getting the sack. I can see the board giving him another season (due to cup runs) to work with the players he's brought in to try and get promoted.

At the end of the day I think our 'big club in a small league' effect is slowly wearing off and i think 'smaller' teams come to brammall lane thinking they can get 3 points off us. Until the team gels together and gets playing i think we'll be a 'nearly' team...just gotta hope it happens sooner rather than later. UTB
 
Well he couldn't have had much more support could he. What a disappointing season.

I doubt we will still be in the playoffs, in which case he will quit. If we go to Wembley, I think I'll stay away. Wednesday, Palace, Wolves, Burnley, Huddersfield, Hull - been to 'em all - Blades only turned up once, last year. We will never get up through the playoffs.
 
bgodbeheresufc said:
Sacking a manager didn't work in the run up to the play off final vs Huddersfield and I reckon clough's displays in big games (ie cup ties vs prem teams) might just force a successful play off campaign.

If all else fails and we get knocked out of the playoffs (or dont even make the playoffs full stop) I cant see clough getting the sack. I can see the board giving him another season (due to cup runs) to work with the players he's brought in to try and get promoted.

At the end of the day I think our 'big club in a small league' effect is slowly wearing off and i think 'smaller' teams come to brammall lane thinking they can get 3 points off us. Until the team gels together and gets playing i think we'll be a 'nearly' team...just gotta hope it happens sooner rather than later. UTB
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Hmmn

A - Wilson wasn't sacked to the run up the the Huddersfield POF - it was the failed semis vs Yeovil
B - our record playing Prem teams in one off cup games is immaterial compared to div 3 teams in a two legged dog fight - I might concede that the final could be a different proposition as that is a one off game but there are two things that counter that, 1) I don't believe we are capable of overcoming any of the other contenders in a two legged play of semi and 2) we would be the one's seen as favourites given our recent Wembley experience - a tag we never wear with any conviction.

C - It's Bramall Lane FFS!
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
We all feel like that but generally apart from the likes of Chelsea and Man City football works so well because being the biggest and having the most backing is no guarantee of sucess.

If we did get up this season and found ourselves in the pigs league position next season would we all moan because bigger more well resourced clubs were below us?
Would we want us to lose a few and let them catch us up for fairness, would we bollocks.

Football works because it is fairly unpredictable outside the prem.

Who on here would have have the foresight to go in the bookies and but £1K on Derby only winning two out of their last ten?
No one because umbrella man is perceived as so much better than Clough.

We are a big club in the 3rd but super tankers take some turning.
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Good post.

Was talking to a workmate who is a Chesterfield fan this morning. Chesterfield beat Gills 3-0 last night without playing a recognised striker so they are not really missing Eion Doyle (think he hasnt scored for Cardiff yet)

I told him that there are quite a lot of Blades fans calling for Clough's head and this is creating a bad atmosphere nothing like the "feelgood" factor Chesterfield are having as their fans fully back the team. He said that fans do not realise that it can be difficult for big clubs to do well in the lower divisions because the opponents raise their game against us and if we are not scoring early in the game our fans get restless easily which can help the opposition
 
The NEW BOARD attracted Clough 17 months ago and in the process handed him unprecedented authority and power within the club.

At that time they thought they had an experienced manager with the capability to lift us out of this league and then out of the league above.

At first they thought they had exactly the right man for the job. By now they will have doubts.

We need a Paul Lambert type, he did such a mammoth job at Norwich. A Eddie Howe. A Kenny Jacket perhaps. A man who can lift a club two levels. Not sure Steve Cotterill is that good but he has waltzed through stage 1.

To be floundering at this stage is not at all encouraging. Nor is the fact that we have signed most of these very average footballers on two and three year contracts. If we do get promotion with this Clough squad how will we fare?

On the budget he has enjoyed Clough should at least have the semblance of a side who look as though they have played together before, a side that can defend set pieces and a side that can create more than the odd shot on goal against struggling League 1 bottom half teams.
 
Silent Blade said:
Good post.

Was talking to a workmate who is a Chesterfield fan this morning. Chesterfield beat Gills 3-0 last night without playing a recognised striker so they are not really missing Eion Doyle (think he hasnt scored for Cardiff yet)

I told him that there are quite a lot of Blades fans calling for Clough's head and this is creating a bad atmosphere nothing like the "feelgood" factor Chesterfield are having as their fans fully back the team. He said that fans do not realise that it can be difficult for big clubs to do well in the lower divisions because the opponents raise their game against us and if we are not scoring early in the game our fans get restless easily which can help the opposition
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Very true but the big team also has up to 4x the budget to help cope with the situation. Despite the challenges we may well be down here another year and not many of those "big clubs" suffered so long despite the super-charged opposition. Lets face it Silent when we first joined League 1 many of the games were such one sided home wins it got boring, not any more, for that reason anyway.
 
Woodwardfan said:
The NEW BOARD attracted Clough 17 months ago and in the process handed him unprecedented authority and power within the club.

At that time they thought they had an experienced manager with the capability to lift us out of this league and then out of the league above.

At first they thought they had exactly the right man for the job. By now they will have doubts.

We need a Paul Lambert type, he did such a mammoth job at Norwich. A Eddie Howe. A Kenny Jacket perhaps. A man who can lift a club two levels. Not sure Steve Cotterill is that good but he has waltzed through stage 1.

To be floundering at this stage is not at all encouraging. Nor is the fact that we have signed most of these very average footballers on two and three year contracts. If we do get promotion with this Clough squad how will we fare?

On the budget he has enjoyed Clough should at least have the semblance of a side who look as though they have played together before, a side that can defend set pieces and a side that can create more than the odd shot on goal against struggling League 1 bottom half teams.
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Bloody Hell - even Woody is getting it off his chest now - only Fiery the WUM and BTL to go and there's almost a full house :(

(Sitters will never turn)
 
The Bohemian said:
Win Promotion via Play-offs: New 3 year contract.

Lose in Play-offs: Leave in post and expect Top 2 challenge from the off next season, otherwise 'part by mutual agreement' in October.

Fail to make play-offs: Resign.


I haven't wanted a manager to succeed as much, on a personal level, since Bassett. However, Cloughie's had good backing and the least we should expect this season is a good run in the Play-offs. Failure to finish in the top 6 will mean clubs of far lesser means will have finished above us and this is unacceptable, despite all of the many positives achieved over the past 18 months.

For now, the only option for 'supporters' is to give Cloughie and the team their full backing and do our utmost to make it happen.
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The Bohemian said:
Lose in Play-offs: Leave in post and expect Top 2 challenge from the off next season, otherwise 'part by mutual agreement' in October.
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Do you really believe of a top 2 push next season, I hear Murphy is our best player, he will be gone if you don't get out of this league this season.
 
Living In a Fantasy World said:
Getting 8k more fans in the ground alone is a valid enough reason why we should be fighting for at least a top two place, it gives us an advantage simply because we achieve more income then others.
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is that why burnley are in the prem
is that why blackpool got there
QPR , WIGAN ,

big gates get you better atmospheres and these days very little else over a season probably about a million or 2 extra, but nothing compared to tv money
 

Large Mendonca said:
Or there's this......





















etc etc
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yes weve lost some games still 5th though its this bit you seem to have trouble with
all teams lose games the art is not losing that many tou finish in the play offs when you start 2 years building behind bristol city swindon and mk dons and preston , in terms of squad ,, we started from scratch last july after loaning several to stop the rot,
Take bristol city they started rebuilding 30 months ago got some momentum from christmas last 2013 , , the squad was their own and they added 3 to make it a good squad , we loaned most of the people who turned us round and had to start 12 months ago, they had a years start on us

We had a standing start as we set off with a fresh look , bristol city had built a sound base of players who had developed together the previous season
 
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