Clough out? A good article on the issue

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Yes, it's a good read. I think what it boils down to is that if Clough doesn't get us up then can you see him doing it next year? or, for those that have questioned his boring first half displays, including myself, then can you see him changing the way he sets up our side next season for the benefit of the team and the fans? Both these are the two main questions as fans for me and i'm hoping we never have to ask them.
 
I agree, I think we should consider his position on the garbage he served up for most of the season (taking away the cup yeh yeh). Will he change his ways though if we give him another season?
 
I still maintain, whether we go up or not, that this season was messed up( yet again) by Ched.

We wouldn't pay what COG was asking in the summer IMO because cash was set aside for Ched's return.
Once that was blown out of the water we suddenly have an influx of cash...hence beard et all...
 
Everybody wanted Adams out. Everybody wanted Wilson out. Everybody wanted Weir out.

Might as well stick with Clough instead of throwing all the pressure and frustration onto some other poor sod.
I think hindsight shows they were probably right. Only time will tell as far as Clough is concerned. I do think he took over at a time where we were debilitated by the inherent problems caused by years of mismanagement and eighteen months to turn a club from relegation candidates to automatic promotion is not an impossible time frame but a very difficult one.
If, as Biggs has said, he has been tasked with the long term rebuilding of the club, from the bottom up, it's unreasonable to also expect immediate success. If it happens, it's a bonus but failure to achieve it shouldn't be a sacking offence.
 
I think hindsight shows they were probably right. Only time will tell as far as Clough is concerned. I do think he took over at a time where we were debilitated by the inherent problems caused by years of mismanagement and eighteen months to turn a club from relegation candidates to automatic promotion is not an impossible time frame but a very difficult one.
If, as Biggs has said, he has been tasked with the long term rebuilding of the club, from the bottom up, it's unreasonable to also expect immediate success. If it happens, it's a bonus but failure to achieve it shouldn't be a sacking offence.
Very level headed . . . . . . Are you lost ?
 
Clough has signed 23 players all of whom have played this season and all but 4 are still with us.

The signings have not been good enough.

I've rated each signing in terms of contribution to the cause and the average rating is 5.4 out of 10, nowhere near good enough. I'll not bore you with the individual ratings which will only lead to arguments over detail. Do your own ratings.

I contend our signings have not matched our rivals' signings and there lies the biggest problem, not the only one but the main one.

If Clough is staying his player recruitment has to be much better.
 
http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/shef...ldn-t-be-defined-by-play-off-result-1-7236460

There are reasons aplenty to keep steering the course, even if we don't go up through the play offs.

That's a great post Bladesway and for the clickless or the can't be arsed, here it is - worth reading


It’s a question dominating many a Blades fan’s agenda. Personally, I don’t think it should. Healthier to get it out of the way right now.

Whether from a minority or not, the voices are loud enough. Too loud for the good of Sheffield United at this crucial time in my opinion.

Should Nigel Clough be sacked if United don’t get promoted? Would that the majority shout up on this. For me, the answer has to be no, no, NO.


Not if the club is to draw a line under the managerial mayhem of the recent past.


Not if the club wants to avoid the upheaval of yet another new regime, yet another “long term” plan.

Not if the club wants to benefit ultimately from the very talented and able squad Clough has assembled.

Such strong arguments against.

There is no evidence, outwardly at least, that the Bramall Lane hierarchy is thinking to the contrary, having projected as much good sense as commitment.

Isn’t this cause to knock this whole subject on the head, besides the destabilising effect it could have at this precarious time?

Yes, expenditure dictates the Blades should have challenged all the way for automatic promotion rather than relying on the play-offs.

Yes, they have under-performed on results and, yes, the manager picks the team and has signed many of the players.

I’m no apologist on that basis and, dare I say, if I was a supporter I’d be feeling fraught right now.

But Clough’s critics overlook all of this;-

n This is United’s FOURTH season in the third tier.

n He is unfairly burdened with the build up of frustration from the other three.

n He has been manager for just 18 months, starting with an unthinkable relegation threat.

n A phenomenal record in the cups, including two semi-finals, appears to have been conveniently forgotten.

n Well, just look at an overall win ratio of nearly 50%.

Now to even bigger reasons. United’s recent history shows that little or nothing is achieved by chopping and changing.

It is expensive and disruptive.

If you think you have a good man, you let him lay down foundations, accept this takes a little time and back him for more than one full season.

And when it comes to foundations at the Lane, these are deep-rooted.

No other United manager in my experience has devoted more time to watching junior games or to tending the club’s football operation from bottom to top.

This is the job with which Clough was tasked.

Some argue he should simply concentrate on the first team. That’s what most modern day managers do. It’s an act of necessity for their self-preservation.

Where United have been refreshingly different is that they have dusted down the glib title of “manager” and made it what it actually says.

It is only with a measure of security that a proper manager can effectively tackle such a mission, carefully balancing short term needs against long term benefit.

Witness Louis Reed’s surprise first team debut at the age of 16 on the opening day of the season.

The result was wrong but a very good player was born.

Yes, there is desperation verging on exasperation about United escaping League One and that is understandable.

Yes, it is Clough’s first imperative and, rightly, he would be left under no illusions about what is required next season should this bid fail.

But can we not take stock of this now? And not pin final judgments on two or, hopefully, three matches?

That’s why this column has said its piece in advance – rather than jerking at the knee.
 
Everybody wanted Adams out. Everybody wanted Wilson out. Everybody wanted Weir out.

Might as well stick with Clough instead of throwing all the pressure and frustration onto some other poor sod.
If you keep paying peanuts you keep getting monkeys. We do it time after time, to avoid paying compensation. We then blow 2 million quid on a right back.

All this talk of gradual building is fine, but it's not obvious to me. I could put up with it for longer if we didn't play the most turgid brand of football.

To his credit he has polished a turd, but at great cost. I'd give him another cloth and 4 months into next season if we don't go up. Then time to re assess, and for once poach a decent manager with a track record.

I expect season ticket sales to be decimated, despite really good efforts by the club. The first few months of next season could be some of the most depressing in my 40 years of supporting us.

UTB
 
http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/shef...ldn-t-be-defined-by-play-off-result-1-7236460

There are reasons aplenty to keep steering the course, even if we don't go up through the play offs.

May well have carried a bit more clout , and would have digested it more , if not written by Biggs and in the star.

However the bottom line is that we have to stick with Clough for stability alone , and see were it takes us . On another note regarding Wigan , who i thought would be favourites for promotion next season . After reading the Guardian article on them , i can see them having a long stay like us , with chopping and changing managers.

If we don't go up and Clough got the sack , we would be back at square one . Biggs for once IMO talks a lot of sense .

The maras we were in before Clough came on board , is solely down to the board , but they never sack themselves do they.

We have got to remember us fans , do have a influence on sacking managers , as well as poor results . We have got to be careful what we wish for , on all things blades management.

UTB.
 
Clough has signed 23 players all of whom have played this season and all but 4 are still with us.

The signings have not been good enough.

I've rated each signing in terms of contribution to the cause and the average rating is 5.4 out of 10, nowhere near good enough. I'll not bore you with the individual ratings which will only lead to arguments over detail. Do your own ratings.

I contend our signings have not matched our rivals' signings and there lies the biggest problem, not the only one but the main one.

If Clough is staying his player recruitment has to be much better.

Thought you would have had me on ignore. You could argue the players are good enough but they just haven't performed to potential in some cases. Beard looks a shadow of his former self for example.

Anyhow, the point is he gets into next season. The article makes sense and to me is right. You steer the course if you believe it is right. I assume the board do. Clough has to change in some ways and to me that will determine if he is a success or a failure.
 



May well have carried a bit more clout , and would have digested it more , if not written by Biggs and in the star.

However the bottom line is that we have to stick with Clough for stability alone , and see were it takes us . On another note regarding Wigan , who i thought would be favourites for promotion next season . After reading the Guardian article on them , i can see them having a long stay like us , with chopping and changing managers.

If we don't go up and Clough got the sack , we would be back at square one . Biggs for once IMO talks a lot of sense .

The maras we were in before Clough came on board , is solely down to the board , but they never sack themselves do they.

We have got to remember us fans , do have a influence on sacking managers , as well as poor results . We have got to be careful what we wish for , on all things blades management.

UTB.

Sorry but if Samuels had written it, it still made sense.
 
May well have carried a bit more clout , and would have digested it more , if not written by Biggs and in the star.

However the bottom line is that we have to stick with Clough for stability alone , and see were it takes us . On another note regarding Wigan , who i thought would be favourites for promotion next season . After reading the Guardian article on them , i can see them having a long stay like us , with chopping and changing managers.

If we don't go up and Clough got the sack , we would be back at square one . Biggs for once IMO talks a lot of sense .

The maras we were in before Clough came on board , is solely down to the board , but they never sack themselves do they.

We have got to remember us fans , do have a influence on sacking managers , as well as poor results . We have got to be careful what we wish for , on all things blades management.

UTB.
The 2 promoted teams this season have "recently" employed new managers who were not part of some long term plan.

The idea that we have to put up with complete crap for the sake of stability is not true.

UTB
 
Sorry but if Samuels had written it, it still made sense.

Agreed Bladesway . It would make sense , from a outsider perspective .

The Biggs article achieves one thing . It makes you think . Whether or not ,( like in politics ,) , it changes peoples view is another matter . What it does for me is strengthens and enforces the reason , that we stick with him , whatever the outcome of the play offs.

UTB
 
Thought you would have had me on ignore. You could argue the players are good enough but they just haven't performed to potential in some cases. Beard looks a shadow of his former self for example.

Anyhow, the point is he gets into next season. The article makes sense and to me is right. You steer the course if you believe it is right. I assume the board do. Clough has to change in some ways and to me that will determine if he is a success or a failure.


As I think you know, I have not advocated sacking the manager before he has had a chance to prove himself next season. Any manager needs a sensible length of time to prove himself a failure if you like and the sad thing is that it's all in the balance for Clough when we thought he would build on last season and get us promoted automatically this season.

I have said promotion now might really expose the manager and the squad next season and I believe that.

I have also said that the Board have invested so much in Clough and his people that it would be too expensive to unravel it all at this early stage. Nevertheless the Board will be praying to their God with all their might that Clough does come through because by the time he fails, should he fail, he will have spent a lot more of their money and so many contracts will have to be settled. I don't think a Clough sacking is on the agenda before the end of next season even if we are not assured promotion come Xmas. If we are rooted at the foot of the Championship though, it might be different.

Fingers crossed Clough comes good. If we scout better players his job will be a lot easier.

BTW. I invited you to put me on " ignore". I wouldn't dare put you on it, I'd wonder what you were calling me!
 
The 2 promoted teams this season have "recently" employed new managers who were not part of some long term plan.

The idea that we have to put up with complete crap for the sake of stability is not true.

UTB

Cannot argue with that alco . What i can say , is that a fool only makes the same mistakes twice . Clough must have a lessons learnt list from this season , even if we win the play offs .

I cannot think another manager in whole of the football league , who would do it for us . Thats another problem , plus have we actually the money to chuck around.

UTB
 
The 2 promoted teams this season have "recently" employed new managers who were not part of some long term plan.

The idea that we have to put up with complete crap for the sake of stability is not true.

UTB

I think we tried the alternative a few times and that worked out well:-(. I'm all for a long term building plan for a change!
 
As I think you know, I have not advocated sacking the manager before he has had a chance to prove himself next season. Any manager needs a sensible length of time to prove himself a failure if you like and the sad thing is that it's all in the balance for Clough when we thought he would build on last season and get us promoted automatically this season.

I have said promotion now might really expose the manager and the squad next season and I believe that.

I have also said that the Board have invested so much in Clough and his people that it would be too expensive to unravel it all at this early stage. Nevertheless the Board will be praying to their God with all their might that Clough does come through because by the time he fails, should he fail, he will have spent a lot more of their money and so many contracts will have to be settled. I don't think a Clough sacking is on the agenda before the end of next season even if we are not assured promotion come Xmas. If we are rooted at the foot of the Championship though, it might be different.

Fingers crossed Clough comes good. If we scout better players his job will be a lot easier.

BTW. I invited you to put me on " ignore". I wouldn't dare put you on it, I'd wonder what you were calling me!

I don't do ignore WWF, just not my style. Roll with the punches.
 
The 2 promoted teams this season have "recently" employed new managers who were not part of some long term plan.

The idea that we have to put up with complete crap for the sake of stability is not true.

UTB

I thought Grayson had longer than Clough but I could be wrong. I also think Robinson (MK in third) has had much longer than Clough. I don't argue with your point that stability for the sake of it is no excuse but theres more to this. We have had years of sack, pay off, start again, sack, pay off, start again. I can't guarantee it but there is a better prospect of achieving if you have a stable organisation than if you keep changing. The blokes not even had a full season yet, to be fair in my opinion to be launching him out of a cannon without a full season under his belt would just ensure that we looked down rather than up when we employed the next bloke, and the next.

There is no doubt that if we don't get promoted then Clough is and should start under more pressure. The expectation to fly out of the traps is already there. I believe that could be a good thing. Although given the chance I'd prefer promotion this season.
 
I get what Biggs is on about but we have been so poor this season and if anything have gone backwards....i still can't understand how we have managed to qualify for the play offs.....i can only put it down to other teams being even worse.

If by some amazing miracle we go up then fine, he deserves more time but another season in L1 watching the same totally negative crap we have endured this season sends a shiver down my spine.

no brainer for me, no promotion, no job.
 
I agree, I think we should consider his position on the garbage he served up for most of the season (taking away the cup yeh yeh). Will he change his ways though if we give him another season?

I don't think it's been garbage. Enjoyed this season a lot. With obvious exceptions and frustrations.
 
OK, why not comment on my last post then?

Put some substance behind your punches.

4 reasons

1) I didn't want to bore everyone else with your obviously pointed comment aimed at Simon Clough
2) Apart from that I didn't see anything worthy of contrary comment.
3) I agreed with some of it as well, as I usually do with you.
4) Go call 999 having read point 3 :)
 
I think every fan would agree that stability is the key to success in a football club. However stability with the wrong manager must be the worst case scenario.

Find the right manager, back him and stick with him. I think the Board thought they had the right man and probably still do, though there are forced to be doubts in there now.
 



I thought Grayson had longer than Clough but I could be wrong. I also think Robinson (MK in third) has had much longer than Clough. I don't argue with your point that stability for the sake of it is no excuse but theres more to this. We have had years of sack, pay off, start again, sack, pay off, start again. I can't guarantee it but there is a better prospect of achieving if you have a stable organisation than if you keep changing. The blokes not even had a full season yet, to be fair in my opinion to be launching him out of a cannon without a full season under his belt would just ensure that we looked down rather than up when we employed the next bloke, and the next.

There is no doubt that if we don't get promoted then Clough is and should start under more pressure. The expectation to fly out of the traps is already there. I believe that could be a good thing. Although given the chance I'd prefer promotion this season.
I agree with that. And Grayson has had longer, but not much. I'm more countering the point that some make about stability for stabilities sake. 2 Years is enough given resource, stature and position.

The other point is about repeated sacking of managers. I believe we have cause and effect mixed up here. If you keep employing shit managers you need to keep sacking them. You can't conclude that keeping them must reverse your fortunes. You should conclude that it's time to start to employ good ones - easier said than done, I appreciate, but you can at least follow the signs.

UTB
 

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