Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[Bashamed]

Think we should get something straight here. Wilder isn't being forced out, he's simply not interested in having someone to give him advice. Can you honestly blame the board for wanting a DOF after the abysmal signings?

If it means Wilder leaves I would 100% blame the board for it yes. And if they tell him he has to have a director of football that's forcing him out to me. Not going to argue about the signings but regardless I think it would be an enormous mistake letting wilder leave.

 

[bromtom]

If it means Wilder leaves I would 100% blame the board for it yes. And if they tell him he has to have a director of football that's forcing him out to me. Not going to argue about the signings but regardless I think it would be an enormous mistake letting wilder leave.

Why's it have to be so black and white though? There's a huge grey area they could plop themselves down in where Wilder acknowledges his transfer deals are a bit off and he might need help, and the Prince realises he's got a manager that for 2 of the last three seasons has been winner or runner up of the LMA manager of the season award and doesn't try and piss him off too much.

The Prince knows how to run a football club from a financial point of view, Wilder knows how to manage one. It's all about meeting in the middle. Are they too proud though?

 

[Bashamed]

Why's it have to be so black and white though? There's a huge grey area they could plop themselves down in where Wilder acknowledges his transfer deals are a bit off and he might need help, and the Prince realises he's got a manager that for 2 of the last three seasons has been winner or runner up of the LMA manager of the season award and doesn't try and piss him off too much.

The Prince knows how to run a football club from a financial point of view, Wilder knows how to manage one. It's all about meeting in the middle. Are they too proud though?

Ye I agree with that. And I hope they do. But when push comes to shove if what the Prince decides needs to happen will lead to Wilder leaving the Prince should be the one who backs down. I know he's every right not to but my opinion is he should. As you say about the LMA manager of the year stuff, when will we ever have a manager who does that again? Not in any of our lifetimes I'd be confident of saying.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Ye I agree with that. And I hope they do. But when push comes to shove if what the Prince decides needs to happen will lead to Wilder leaving the Prince should be the one who backs down. I know he's every right not to but my opinion is he should. As you say about the LMA manager of the year stuff, when will we ever have a manager who does that again? Not in any of our lifetimes I'd be confident of saying.

If that's the case Wilder is basically running the club. No thanks. He's a football manager. If he wants to be at the top level he has to cede some responsibilities

 

[Big Hitter]

Why's it have to be so black and white though? There's a huge grey area they could plop themselves down in where Wilder acknowledges his transfer deals are a bit off and he might need help, and the Prince realises he's got a manager that for 2 of the last three seasons has been winner or runner up of the LMA manager of the season award and doesn't try and piss him off too much.

The Prince knows how to run a football club from a financial point of view, Wilder knows how to manage one. It's all about meeting in the middle. Are they too proud though?

Where did the Prince get all this experience of running a Club.?

 

[Luke1993]

I don't buy into this 'recruitment is poor' there is a list of targets delivered to the board for whatever position CW wants, ollie Watkins would have been number 1 for strikers I assume, Brewster might have been 2nd 3rd 4th who knows, but if you can't match wages etc you have to work your way down the list and as you go down the list, in theory the quality diminishes. I do believe the foreign markets is something we should be making better use of and CW needs help in that respect.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I don't buy into this 'recruitment is poor' there is a list of targets delivered to the board for whatever position CW wants, ollie Watkins would have been number 1 for strikers I assume, Brewster might have been 2nd 3rd 4th who knows, but if you can't match wages etc you have to work your way down the list and as you go down the list, in theory the quality diminishes. I do believe the foreign markets is something we should be making better use of and CW needs help in that respect.

Watkins was outside of budget. So was Wilson. So why suggest them?

 

[originaltrueblade]

If Wilder walks the price will not be forgiven

 

[Come from away]

Is not the problem that the potential DOF is already on the Board and not highly thought of by CW?

 

[Blade1959]

It’s alright saying “but every other club has a DoF”... firstly, whilst not even factual, it’s also being totally dismissive and disrespectful to the bloke who in essence saved us from who knows what. Not surprised he’s pissed off. I wonder if it’ll be the same people calling for his head who are the first to slag off the Prince once it all goes tits up and we’re back in League One.

Every chance

 

[Luke1993]

Watkins was outside of budget. So was Wilson. So why suggest them?

Comes back to the issue, you can get what you can get with the budget afforded. Depends what the thought process is, pay the larger fees and lower wages and don't risk the future of the club with a huge wage bill. Or less money more wages, potentially better quality more experienced players, not as much resale potential.

 

[bartman]

If Wilder walks the price will not be forgiven

That will depend on the reason for walking . The Prince has backed him to lead us next season

 

[robbiez666]

Then by the same token it’s unfair to expect every wilder signing to be a success

but no one does? They weren't in league 1. They weren't in the championship. Quite a few of the more higher profile signings weren't. (Carruthers, Leonard, Holmes etc). No manager has a record of only signing successful players. There are too many external factors.

It's starkly different signing someone for a few hundred thousand and paying club record fees though. We saw Lampard being sacked after he threw around major money for the likes of Werner, Ziyech, Chillwell etc. I think fans expect their record transfers to at least be playing regularly.

 

[Carlton Blade]

If Wilder walks the price will not be forgiven

Surely the only person to blame if he resigns is Wilder?

 

[Blade1959]

Callum Robinson, Luke Freeman, Jack Robinson, Jack Rodwell, Max Lowe

Squad players

 

[Carlton Blade]

Comes back to the issue, you can get what you can get with the budget afforded. Depends what the thought process is, pay the larger fees and lower wages and don't risk the future of the club with a huge wage bill. Or less money more wages, potentially better quality more experienced players, not as much resale potential.

But these discussions and the wage budget are surely pre agreed?

 

[gordoncharles]

Whilst this isn't at our level (or maybe it is?) Huddersfield sacked Danny Cowley in the summer. He's another who wants full control but the Huddersfield owner, having promised him that to get him there in September, decided to renege on that the following July and go back to a coach with a DoF (Leigh Bromby as it turns out).

Anyway, there have been 36 managerial changes in the EFL this season but Danny Cowley is still sitting in the Sky studio most weeks, and though I'm not sure what that means it could well be that wanting to control all aspects of club policy is no longer seen as the job.

I don't know what Chris Wilder's objections are to this? Seems like politicking to me.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Squad players

£7m, £5m, a 3 year deal, never plays, nowhere near good enough.

 

[robbiez666]

Watkins was outside of budget. So was Wilson. So why suggest them?

But Watkins only became out of budget when Villa came in for him. Wilson obviously was as he was on more money than we would pay. Still worth the question as he'd be playing at a higher level and if had no other offers, you never know.

The transfer list is a wishlist. Nothing wrong with going for the 10% chancers first as long as you don't spend too long on them.

 

[Carlton Blade]

But Watkins only became out of budget when Villa came in for him. Wilson obviously was as he was on more money than we would pay. Still worth the question as he'd be playing at a higher level and if had no other offers, you never know.

The transfer list is a wishlist. Nothing wrong with going for the 10% chancers first as long as you don't spend too long on them.

Brentford weren't selling him for what we had to pay.

The problem is the lack of secondary, tertiary targets and the small player pool to choose from

 

[robbiez666]

Brentford weren't selling him for what we had to pay.

The problem is the lack of secondary, tertiary targets and the small player pool to choose from

This is our major problem. Because we only fish in one pond then the 4th or 5th choice is often a lot worse than the first one.

 

[Carlton Blade]

This is our major problem. Because we only fish in one pond then the 4th or 5th choice is often a lot worse than the first one.

Nobody is asking to do what Fulham do. Just diversify a little and try to maximise your resources.

And don't say "wages make it impossible". We never even tried so how do we know?

 

[guancheblade]

When I meant agreeable I meant to selling him for what amounted to an amount the board were unwilling to pay. The fee was high in terms of his contract expiring but in terms of our signings and Wilder’s knowledge of what was wrong with O’Connell no wonder he wasn’t happy about it to say the least.

This isn't Football manager. The club is a business. Why pay over the odds for a player running down his contract when you can shop abroad and get better value for money?

Would you pay £200 for a pair of white trainers or £100 for a different pair of white trainers that are practically identical to the £200 pair in every way except the price?

 

[s4-blade]

He could shut it down tomorrow if he wanted. He's the sole legal owner.
You and Bert are just supporters.

The club is more than just a registered company, it is a community, and an intangible being. The club with live on forever in various forms. If he shut down the current form, the registered company, right now the club wouldn’t cease to exist, it would be continued by us, the owners and supporters, in other forms.

 

[guancheblade]

True. There lies the problem.We haven’t the budget to sign 10 and see which 5 work out, but we are having to compete with the majority of the premier league clubs who can afford that approach.

Exactly. And we have to contend with the reality that faces us.

 

[Bobby b]

I agree with most if not all of that. I just wanted to counter the notion that many seem to build, that if you go abroad you just get much better quality, much cheaper, simple as that. We've at least proved it's not that simple.

There's an exponential curve of cost v quality for all players. We can't afford to get to the top of that curve, so when it goes wrong, it takes nothing for a £20M player to slip back down to become a £2M player.

Lower down, when you get it wrong, you forget about them / move them on. We no longer have that luxury.

My point being, Wilder is only partly to blame for the above scenario. If we heap too much of the blame onto him, we end up binning an exceptional manager for, very highly likely, a poor one.

I pretty much agree with what you have said, but the prince has gone on record as saying that he wont sack him, and you've got to believe him, because if the prince wanted to do that he would certainly have done that at Christmas.
The point of the article is that wilder is thinking about walking because the board didn't back him in January, and also a rumour that the board are looking at getting a director of football to oversee signings, but the article mentioned Watkins and cash who went to villa, villa have a director of football with Smith having the final say, so I hope I'm wrong but it seems that wilder is sowing the seeds for a resignation

 

[Big Hitter]

It seems to me that the single most productive source of wealth to the Club , and any other Club for that matter , is the production of and bringing through the Academy ranks home-grown footballers who are developed by the Club into fully fledged footballers able to hold their own at first team level.
We have brought through some great footballers from Academy, the two Kyles, Lowton, Maguire, ( you can add some others )there have been other local footballers we have had or missed, Cahill, Forte, Vardy ( yes I know he was an Owl) and when you look at what these players have attracted or are worth in Fees it is staggering. McCabe obviously with an eye on the money, sold most of them for sod-all as it turns out but there are millions involved. That is why the Scouting needs to be strengthened, the facilities at Shirecliffe need improving, young prospects encouraged and developed, and these investments will reap rewards for the Club in the future.
That is where money need to be spent and it will bear fruit in the future many times the investment.

 

[BushBlade]

but no one does? They weren't in league 1. They weren't in the championship. Quite a few of the more higher profile signings weren't. (Carruthers, Leonard, Holmes etc). No manager has a record of only signing successful players. There are too many external factors.

It's starkly different signing someone for a few hundred thousand and paying club record fees though. We saw Lampard being sacked after he threw around major money for the likes of Werner, Ziyech, Chillwell etc. I think fans expect their record transfers to at least be playing regularly.

Was it Lampard who signed them, or Petr Cech?

 

[Balham]

Abysmal signings?? Show me one

Callum Robinson, Luke Freeman, Jack Robinson, Jack Rodwell, Max Lowe

You could add Ravel Morrison, Wes Foderingham (3 years!) & Oli Burke to that list.

PL signings (*already left/^out on loan):

Unsuccessful/not good enough: Jack Robinson, Callum Robinson*, Luke Freeman^, Jack Rodwell, Wes Foderingham, Lys Mousset, Oli Burke, Ravel Morrison*

Jury's out on and it's not great so far: Oli McBurnie, Rhian Brewster, Max Lowe, Ben Osborn

Jury's out on and it might be OK: Sander Berge, Aaron Ramsdale

Decent: Jayden Bogle

That pyramid is the wrong way round. It's a damning indictment of our recruitment that enforced changes (GK) apart one, maybe two PL signings (Bogle and possibly Berge) look like an upgrade on their Championship predecessors. He's signed a squad full of players and effectively given us a second upper midtable Championship XI.

 

[bromtom]

Where did the Prince get all this experience of running a Club.?

Al-Hilal, and Beerschot have been doing alright while he's been around, as have we for the last few years, and his sole ownership period, he's not done anything wrong that I can think of apart from not being wealthier.