Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[gordoncharles]

So we have barely utilised the foreign market. Berge who I agree with you has been underwhelming is perhaps the only player we've signed since promotion that we stand a good chance of recouping our investment on when we sell him so in that respect he has been far more successful than the other £20m British players we've signed in McBurnie, Ramsdale & Brewster.

The Berge transfer is proof of the poverty of what has passed for recruitment. Whilst we were looking at the "best of the Championship" and getting outbid at every turn, it was still possible to sign an international with a reputation from a Champions League club.

But how many other similar targets were there?

 

[The Crab]

Be fascinating to see where we go as a club over the next few years from a strategy point of view. We got lucky with the appointment of Wilder, it wasn't part of a grand plan. How do we now ensure that we build on that luck by having a plan that means changing manager doesn't mean a complete change of direction? Basically how do we do a Barnsley and not a weds?

I think doing a Barnsley would be a huge change in direction, IIRC they are pretty much following the Brentford model? Doing a Weds is much simpler, just put a Chimpanzee in charge.

 

[MobileBlade]

Think there is something in the United World model as well that ties into all of this. The need for people to work across the four/five clubs with a ladder for the players to be able to climb. One man who is coaching a first team squad in Sheffield is never going to be able track all of that.

 

[alcoblade]

We signed Mousset from Bournemouth so he was already well known in this country, and as a signing I would argue he has been more successful than McBurnie and Brewster who cost double his transfer fee. The 3 last season were loans and barely got any game time to prove their worth.

So we have barely utilised the foreign market. Berge who I agree with you has been underwhelming is perhaps the only player we've signed since promotion that we stand a good chance of recouping our investment on when we sell him so in that respect he has been far more successful than the other £20m British players we've signed in McBurnie, Ramsdale & Brewster.

I have sympathy with him on wages to a certain degree, but he's shown his bias towards recruiting British players which are costing us a lot of money and yielding little by way of returns. All that has happened is we've watched their value deteriorate.

I agree with most if not all of that. I just wanted to counter the notion that many seem to build, that if you go abroad you just get much better quality, much cheaper, simple as that. We've at least proved it's not that simple.

There's an exponential curve of cost v quality for all players. We can't afford to get to the top of that curve, so when it goes wrong, it takes nothing for a £20M player to slip back down to become a £2M player.

Lower down, when you get it wrong, you forget about them / move them on. We no longer have that luxury.

My point being, Wilder is only partly to blame for the above scenario. If we heap too much of the blame onto him, we end up binning an exceptional manager for, very highly likely, a poor one.

 

[Jacobsenthecrab]

I love Wilder but there’s a reason lots of Prem clubs have a DoF - it’s simply too much for one person to do it all.
Also if it’s done well it stabilises the club should a manager leave as there is a blueprint there to follow.
We are lacking a European scouting network that would offer better value to us, and that type of network takes a lot to set-up and manage.

 

[The Crab]

Yep, wouldn’t it be terrible if we signed the next Henrikh Mkhitaryan?

Be a fucker having a shirt done.

Can I have................can I have..................I don't know how you spell it. Oh bollocks to it, just stick Fleck on instead.....................

 

[Danetheblade]

Going to massively struggle to care as much. I know there's arguments on recruitment being poor etc but I'll never forgive them for forcing him out. We sat and watched warnock win promotion after promotion while we fell apart after stupidly letting him leave. We'll do the same again here and be back to complete obscurity through our own stupidity.

Think we should get something straight here. Wilder isn't being forced out, he's simply not interested in having someone to give him advice. Can you honestly blame the board for wanting a DOF after the abysmal signings?

 

[s4-blade]

The bastard cunts in charge have always wanted this. A few years ago they tried to pull it off by bringing Jan Van Winckel in as director of football but the shitstorm that it caused lead to them backing down. They’ve waited for this very moment when wilders stock isn’t quite as high as it was to try and force it through because he doesn’t have as much of a groundswell of support to counter it right now. Scum. Utter scum.

 

[dc_blade]

Be a fucker having a shirt done.

Can I have................can I have..................I don't know how you spell it. Oh bollocks to it, just stick Fleck on instead.....................

Under the current set up we’re more likely to end up with Actual Adam Reach, which is easier to pronounce, at least.

 

[s4-blade]

Think we should get something straight here. Wilder isn't being forced out, he's simply not interested in having someone to give him advice. Can you honestly blame the board for wanting a DOF after the abysmal signings?

Abysmal signings?? Show me one

 

[Carlton Blade]

It doesn't have to be one person running everything, either a DoF or a manager. There just needs to be more qualified, talented people involved than is currently the case.

Also "we used to be worse than this" is not an argument against change and growth

 

[Carlton Blade]

Abysmal signings?? Show me one

Callum Robinson, Luke Freeman, Jack Robinson, Jack Rodwell, Max Lowe

 

[bartman]

I agree with the Prince's model proposal but the timing seems weird. We're going down, and Wilder's way is the best way to get us back up?

If we go up then put the new model in.

Surely you put in a new model now so the club isnt doing it if/ when we are promoted?
The key for me is the role of the DoF( if that is the issue). If the roll is to identify players( and the negotiates wothvthem)and Wilder has the final say on who we go for I cannot see the issue as it will take some pressure off Wilder

 

[Bobby b]

We've got Mouset and Berge - both expensive foreign failures. We had three others last season who were shite.

Whilst I accept that our scouting network is too narrow, it's a myth that we haven't looked at foreigners.

The players identified last season weren't Messi and Kane, the were the best of England's second division, and we couldn't afford them. In the end, that's the problem.

I am critical of Wilder's part of the transfer failings this / last season, but there needs to be some context.

The article infers that Wilders transfer dealings are sound pointing at the players he wanted who later went on to become successful, like you quite rightly said we couldn't afford them, so I pointed out 3 other players we couldn't afford.
As for our foreign signings I can only think of Berge, who I see as going onto being a success, but he may need to move to make it, mousset was playing in the English premier league so financially speaking I would class him as a domestic player, the others were loans which are always hit or miss, verrips is a permanent signing who may or not be a good keeper, but he was signed as a back up player

 

[Bert]

The bastard cunts in charge have always wanted this. A few years ago they tried to pull it off by bringing Jan Van Winckel in as director of football but the shitstorm that it caused lead to them backing down. They’ve waited for this very moment when wilders stock isn’t quite as high as it was to try and force it through because he doesn’t have as much of a groundswell of support to counter it right now. Scum. Utter scum.

Is this The Prince you are calling scum?

 

[s4-blade]

Callum Robinson, Luke Freeman, Jack Robinson, Jack Rodwell, Max Lowe

Sold for a profit, still at the club, cheap gap filler, cheap gap filler, cheap potential that looks half decent.

what’s the issue

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Callum Robinson, Luke Freeman, Jack Robinson, Jack Rodwell, Max Lowe

You could also argue Mcburnie, Brewster and Ramsdale for over 60m isn't exactly great business..

 

[s4-blade]

Is this The Prince you are calling scum?

Not necessarily but maybe, whichever dickhead it is that wants this director of football bollocks.

 

[bypassblade]

My main worry is that if and I say if we lose Wilder, I really hope we get someone in who's got a bit of nous. I don't want to go back to the days of Weir, Adkins, Heath, please god no; all the good work done under CW is unravelling faster than we can imagine.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Sold for a profit, still at the club, cheap gap filler, cheap gap filler, cheap potential that looks half decent.

what’s the issue

Not sold for a profit, never gets a game, awful, awful, awful

 

[BlairBlade]

Wasn't Berge signed via this sort of route? A player most agree is good but doesn't fit the system. Personally I think wilder has still done well with transfers. Up till the premier league it was brilliant and whilst the recent signings have not hit the ground running they were signed for their long term prospects and certainly shouldn't be written off as bad transfers.

I think his record in the transfer market over the last 2 seasons has been incredibly poor.
He may well have bought most players with a view to the future and they may well, all, come good.
Unfortunately that was not the correct thing to do, was it?
We are not a club who has the luxury of spending £120+ million on prospects.
We needed players who could produce the goods, do the job and make us better.
That has not happened.
I do not know what CW is playing at.

Wilder will leave for the start of next season and he will leave for a team that is currently in the bottom 5 of our division. Wilder has been rightfully furious about not getting the agreement to get his left centre back target but Lingard was the end of it.

You may be right. You may be ITK.
However, who was his "left centre back" target. Did he go anywhere else?
Lingard - do you seriously think he would have come to the Lane? From some of the stuff that's been said on here, in the press, etc he was not interested and nor was the Preston player who went to Liverpool.
If what is going on with CW is that he is trying to position himself, get his point over, play his hand out a bit in public but not quite the full picture, etc he is going to fail.
If he has the club at heart - which is the only thing that matters - he should take anything he is concerned/worried about, wants clarification on, etc up with the Prince.
He should get on with his job and be thankful he has one as this season it has been nothing to write home about and with some justification some people will say it has been utterly woeful.
There could be any number of reasons for that, which may well be blindingly obvious, but he is the manager. He is in charge and whatever league we are in it is a results business and this season his results are dreadful.
Maybe he simply knows that and is trying to get sacked? Who knows because I am fucked if I do but I am becoming seriously nonplussed at whatever he is up to.
Maybe he thinks he has so much support that he can use that in whatever he is up to.
However, if you look elsewhere I see some guy named André Villa-Boas being touted as a good manager. All I know he is not GERMAN.

 

[s4-blade]

You could also argue Mcburnie, Brewster and Ramsdale for over 60m isn't exactly great business..

They’re punts on potential. And the only one you wouldn’t be able to move on for the same money right now is Mcburnie. All 3 could theoretically treble their worth in a few years.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Abysmal signings?? Show me one

Could even go back to the championship days of Leonard, Holmes and Evans.

 

[Bert]

Not necessarily but maybe, whichever dickhead it is that wants this director of football bollocks.

That will be the club owner then.
The guy who has every right to run the club just how he wants.

 

[s4-blade]

Could even go back to the championship days of Leonard, Holmes and Evans.

For a combined fee of about a bag of cheese and onion crisps. It hasn’t cost the club and therefore isn’t a bad signing. Ultra low risk, moderate potential reward.

Leonard was sold for a profit too.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

They’re punts on potential. And the only one you wouldn’t be able to move on for the same money right now is Mcburnie. All 3 could theoretically treble their worth in a few years.

I'm not disagreeing with you here as I think they will come good but as were only little Sheffield United then 60m on three players is a massive gamble at the present time.

 

[s4-blade]

That will be the club owner then.
The guy who has every right to run the club just how he wants.

This is our club not his. He’s just a custodian.

 

[Badger Blade]

It doesn't have to be one person running everything, either a DoF or a manager. There just needs to be more qualified, talented people involved than is currently the case.

Also "we used to be worse than this" is not an argument against change and growth

That's it, we aren't competing against ourselves, we're competing with everyone else and at the level we're at and ideally want to stay at, we're getting left behind.

 

[Bert]

This is our club not his. He’s just a custodian.

He could shut it down tomorrow if he wanted. He's the sole legal owner.
You and Bert are just supporters.

 

[cooperblade]

I think doing a Barnsley would be a huge change in direction, IIRC they are pretty much following the Brentford model? Doing a Weds is much simpler, just put a Chimpanzee in charge.

When I say "doing a Barnsley", I just mean having a plan that allows you to change managers with little or no disruption because you're just bringing in someone suitable to carry on the work with the current players. It doesn't have to be their particular plan.