Ched poll

[Damski]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but.. it's difficult to reconcile your morality about his behaviour when you draw inferences not only on what has been reported and indeed discussed in court, but also from things you don't know happened or not. "There's a lot we don't know about that night", that's very true, but that hardly adds to the debate?

Court cases are very rarely black and white, that's why the verdict is.

This is a really good counter argument, and to be honest, I don't have a lot to say to it that isn't much more than conjecture at this point. I think that it's quite convenient for people to welcome him back now that the conviction has been overturned, and that seems to have nullified most or all doubt in people's minds about the moral character of Evans, but that's too flimsy for me. There's so much more to this, and we're opening up a whole Pandora's Box of issues that just doesn't need to be touched at all.

 

[adebo]

This is what I can't get my head around with people who don't think it's a moral issue. If you don't care about what rich, powerful men do when they think they'll never get caught, if you don't have an issue with what goes on it that murky world. then eat your heart out, but you can't simultaneously hand wave what happened as some sort of non-event that got blown out of proportion. You can't have your cake and eat it, son!

With Ched Evans you're supporting a man who - at the very least - is a seedy, selfish idiot, someone who will happily betray his partner and take advantage of a young woman he's never met, in a questionable scenario of consent. That's explicitly the level of it. That's the facts we are aware of, and what has been discussed in court. At the other end of the scale of potential universes, at worst you are defending a literal, unabashed rapist, who has managed to skirt the legal system, which isn't a scenario that's out of the question. It's all well and good capslocking the words NOT GUILTY and doing your tired old PC brigade bullshit but that's what you're choosing to support. There's a lot we don't know about that night, a lot we'll never know, and to so brazenly declare this a non-moral situation in such a black and white way is some level of cognitive dissonance. There's a lot to be said on this matter, but I feel like this post is already enough of a hand grenade as is.

But if you've all got such a big chub on about making this strictly about football then y'know. There ARE other strikers available. I know - Shocking! Better ones than Ched. Ones that don't come with all this baggage. The unconfirmed story of him coming back is on the BBC's front page right now. We are going to get a lot of flack for this. It's absolutely not worth it.

I pretty much agree with every point about the moral argument you make. And then I feel his actions cost him 2 and a half years and must have been a massive wake up call. Im not sure if he is worth the money with the baggage. I feel him at Chesterfield for a season was to deflect and extract all the bile everyone had for him but he didnt do enough last season for the haters to be silenced and we will still have a lot of crap to swallow taking him on! Its either gonna be a masterstroke or grand disaster. I just dont know so have to trust wilder..... and I will

 

[Sheffsteel]

I can't understand why we would want to do this at all.

1) Football reasons - He's never worth 500k. Free, maybe. He has scored 5 league one goals this season (and really - 5 league on goals in the last 5 years!). And he's never proven himself in the Championship. He's had one good season, in league one, 5 years ago.
2) Other reasons - Yes, in the eyes of the law, his conviction has been quashed and he is innocent. But what he did was still pretty low and disgusting. And he will always have that hanging over him, and he brings that reputation to the club. And that reflects on the club. He will get stick everywhere he goes. He's not exactly thrived under those circumstances this season has he?
The club will be under pressure. There will be more petitions written. More club ambassadors will be put under pressure. The other players and staff will be put under pressure. Totally unnecessary.
Chris Wilder and Kevin McCabe will be answering more questions about this than about our fantastic season and title win. It will distract the whole club, and the whole footballing world. Example; it's currently on the front page of BBC news and BBC sport apps. Just why would you bring this on yourself for a player who is not that good (see reason (1)), or any player for that matter.

There are much better options - save the money and put it towards someone else who doesn't have all the baggage.

If anyone can get the best out of him, it will be Wilder - and I would love to be eating my words in 6 months time. But I think the chances of even Wilder making the most out of this are low, and not worth the hassle. A time consuming, expensive distraction.

Bladeaway-
You have a 2D opinion on player valuations based on recent achievement. Seems fair and simple BUT what about valuation of potential? Based on this season Evans is worth 100K, but a 3D valuation based on potential and what we've seen him during his final season he's on a par with Jordan Rhodes and he's just been bought for 10 million.
I doubt he'll get back to his best but Wilder seems to have this ability to get the best out of players.
If he does that with Ched we've just bought a £5 million plus player for £500K.

Regards morals- where do you draw the line without being a hypocrite?
What if any players had been unfaithful, should they not be allowed to join us?
What about violent players? Players guilty of domestic violence? Want about drug takers?
What about rascist players? Where do you draw the line? Is it important to like our players?

Regards the pressure on the club Im certain you are panicking unnecessarily.
Make a note of this post and let's see if the shit storm lasts a few weeks like last time.
I'll lay a bet that it'll all be forgotten a few days after our match. Think you'll be surprised at the minimal medium interest as it's now a non story.

Evans is innocent and falsely imprisoned. It's no longer the big story like last time.
If anything he arguabke deserves some sympathy and support, although it's a harsh lesson learnt for being an idiot.

 

[baulko]

As you say Steel, he's an idiot. Regardless of his guilt or otherwise he's an idiot. Don't want idiot's representing my beloved Blades.

 

[David Lee's first touch]

This is what I can't get my head around with people who don't think it's a moral issue. If you don't care about what rich, powerful men do when they think they'll never get caught, if you don't have an issue with what goes on it that murky world. then eat your heart out, but you can't simultaneously hand wave what happened as some sort of non-event that got blown out of proportion. You can't have your cake and eat it, son!

With Ched Evans you're supporting a man who - at the very least - is a seedy, selfish idiot, someone who will happily betray his partner and take advantage of a young woman he's never met, in a questionable scenario of consent. That's explicitly the level of it. That's the facts we are aware of, and what has been discussed in court. At the other end of the scale of potential universes, at worst you are defending a literal, unabashed rapist, who has managed to skirt the legal system, which isn't a scenario that's out of the question. It's all well and good capslocking the words NOT GUILTY and doing your tired old PC brigade bullshit but that's what you're choosing to support. There's a lot we don't know about that night, a lot we'll never know, and to so brazenly declare this a non-moral situation in such a black and white way is some level of cognitive dissonance. There's a lot to be said on this matter, but I feel like this post is already enough of a hand grenade as is.

But if you've all got such a big chub on about making this strictly about football then y'know. There ARE other strikers available. I know - Shocking! Better ones than Ched. Ones that don't come with all this baggage. The unconfirmed story of him coming back is on the BBC's front page right now. We are going to get a lot of flack for this. It's absolutely not worth it.

Without trying to be controversial what the fuck do you think happens every Saturday night up and down the country. I'm not going to get in the is it right is it wrong debate, but clearly a mistake was made 1000s of men and women will repeat this mistake this Saturday and every other Saturday for longer than we will both live, does it make it right no does it happen yes live with it that's life

 

[nopigfansintown]

This should be judged purely on his merit as a footballer. If people don't obey the rule of law they are free to discontinue supporting the club or, alternatively, to move somewhere in which no rule of law exists. The moral guardians have no right to discuss Evans' bedroom shenanigans: it is voyeurism, none of our business. I have no interest in the legal bedroom exploits of any player . The gutter press are an irrelevance, and a disgrace in the way they are continuing to hound Evans, even when found not guilty. As for the local press leaking it, why am I not surprised. Add it to RS's growing list of anti Blades news/specials. They timed it with customary precision.
If it's a cheap punt, I've got nothing against it on footballing grounds. I have doubts about his fitness, desire, decline, as well as his ability at championship level. The manager has my trust - it's his call.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

So basically you can only want Ched if you trust Wilder?

No for me mainly on footballing reasons, unless it can be proven there is a reason outside of injury he hasn't played for 2 months.

Chesterfield are skint.

 

[sheffielder]

Can I ask of those

This should be judged purely on his merit as a footballer. If people don't obey the rule of law they are free to discontinue supporting the club or, alternatively, to move somewhere in which no rule of law exists. The moral guardians have no right to discuss Evans' bedroom shenanigans: it is voyeurism, none of our business. I have no interest in the legal bedroom exploits of any player . The gutter press are an irrelevance, and a disgrace in the way they are continuing to hound Evans, even when found not guilty. If it's a cheap punt, I've got nothing against it on footballing grounds. I have doubts about his fitness, desire, decline, as well as his ability at championship level. The manager has my trust - it's his call.

theres that word again trust. I will only trust wilder on this one if he has had Evans in at the training ground in a 1 on 2 against EEL and Magic for 60 mins and he's still walking

 

[sheffielder]

Chesterfield are skint.

Yes but if we agreed to pay his bonuses to keep his match fitness up the better. Which bright spark didn't think of that after he's had 4 years out of the game. If the deal was done then you come to an agreement to keep him playing until the end of the season. You then don't pay them money for him, you send the likes of slater brooks etc on loan to them next year whilst paying their wages.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Can I ask of those


theres that word again trust. I will only trust wilder on this one if he has had Evans in at the training ground in a 1 on 2 against EEL and Magic for 60 mins and he's still walking

Should clarify, I place trust in the manager with any signing. No special trust with regards to this signing. At least he should get a full pre season behind him.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Yes but if we agreed to pay his bonuses to keep his match fitness up the better. Which bright spark didn't think of that after he's had 4 years out of the game. If the deal was done then you come to an agreement to keep him playing until the end of the season. You then don't pay them money for him, you send the likes of slater brooks etc on loan to them next year whilst paying their wages.

Think we might get dragged over the coals for 'third party ownership' if we did as suggested?

 

[sheffielder]

Think we might get dragged over the coals for 'third party ownership' if we did as suggested?

lol

 

[JJBlade]

Think we might get dragged over the coals for 'third party ownership' if we did as suggested?

Yes
Although that is against the rules there is no punishment for it

Precedent already set

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Yes
Although that is against the rules there is no punishment for it

Precedent already set

Ouch.

 

[Diamondlife]

Not read through the 38 pages so I'm guessing it will have been said before but the % on the vote adds up to 111.1% Right that's me done

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

As you say Steel, he's an idiot. Regardless of his guilt or otherwise he's an idiot. Don't want idiot's representing my beloved Blades.

Where you been the last 50 years?

 

[Sheffsteel]

Without trying to be controversial what the fuck do you think happens every Saturday night up and down the country. I'm not going to get in the is it right is it wrong debate, but clearly a mistake was made 1000s of men and women will repeat this mistake this Saturday

True story this.
I used to go out some weekends In town with a young Wednesday fan I knew at work.
He wasn't good looking but used to brag off about his he "shagged a bird" almost every single weekend he went out, I never believed him but when we went out he did always end up going home with a different girl.

I asked what his secret was.
His exact reply was "At the end of the night I always look for the most drunken birds, he said plain or ugly birds are more desperate and then tell them whatever they want to here". He laughed and said it works every time.

He was actually a nice lad but he must have had insecurities and addicted to having sexual conquests to make him feel better. I lost contact with him years ago but I often think back that he's technically raped some girls. If the girls said no or were falling asleep then he wouldn't bother but he used to always tell me that drunken girls are much more promiscuous and worse than drunken boys.

He even told me stories that some of the most embrassing experiences he's had is where he's woke up in bed with a girl and he can hardly remember them and the girl is really embarrassed because she can hardly remember him and asks him to leave. He said its really bad when both participants wake up naked in bed thinking "how did I get here"?

 

[coolhandluke]

This is what I can't get my head around with people who don't think it's a moral issue. If you don't care about what rich, powerful men do when they think they'll never get caught, if you don't have an issue with what goes on it that murky world. then eat your heart out, but you can't simultaneously hand wave what happened as some sort of non-event that got blown out of proportion. You can't have your cake and eat it, son!

With Ched Evans you're supporting a man who - at the very least - is a seedy, selfish idiot, someone who will happily betray his partner and take advantage of a young woman he's never met, in a questionable scenario of consent. That's explicitly the level of it. That's the facts we are aware of, and what has been discussed in court. At the other end of the scale of potential universes, at worst you are defending a literal, unabashed rapist, who has managed to skirt the legal system, which isn't a scenario that's out of the question. It's all well and good capslocking the words NOT GUILTY and doing your tired old PC brigade bullshit but that's what you're choosing to support. There's a lot we don't know about that night, a lot we'll never know, and to so brazenly declare this a non-moral situation in such a black and white way is some level of cognitive dissonance. There's a lot to be said on this matter, but I feel like this post is already enough of a hand grenade as is.

But if you've all got such a big chub on about making this strictly about football then y'know. There ARE other strikers available. I know - Shocking! Better ones than Ched. Ones that don't come with all this baggage. The unconfirmed story of him coming back is on the BBC's front page right now. We are going to get a lot of flack for this. It's absolutely not worth it.

2 and a half years in prison for being a seedy selfish idiot that cheated on his partner is punishment enough isn't it ?

 

[SB_90]

Ive said on meltdown thread im not against ched. There are 91 other clubs to have long successful career with. But crap he left us with twice. Is too painful to return to. Too many arguments & too many painful memories. Ive seen us in many low points relegations play off final defeats & barrel scraping defeats in my near 20yrs but always been proud to be utd fan

That period i wasnt. He brought the worst out in everyone & i almost hid being a blade

 

[Sirius]

As you say Steel, he's an idiot. Regardless of his guilt or otherwise he's an idiot. Don't want idiot's representing my beloved Blades.

If only you knew . Perhaps as well Wilder does his due diligence, and having done that, if he signs a payer for football reasons, I am happy with that, Are you seriously suggesting that no other player has had a one night stand or done something we, or a narrow minded unforgiving person may find abhorrent Those who have aren't going to shout about it. Or are you splitting idiocy from morality. Harry Bassett played a particular player whom he described as having the brains of a rocking horse. As far as I am aware, that player never let us down.
In Wilder we trust. If he signs a Chesterfield player who has proved his innocence to the satisfaction of a Court. Who are we to throw stones.?

 

[Harry's Game]

Don't want idiot's representing my beloved Blades.

That's lowered the pool of potential footballers signing by about 95%

 

[Bart the Blade]

If Wilder can bring beast mode out of Ched there will be no issues. If he was back to the form we last saw him in he would be a machine in the champ. Think the whole media thing has gone way out of control. I was on my way home from work when the breaking news alerted on national radio. It's not news really is it. Just hope we concentrate on the glory this year rather than a potential signing next. I'd be annoyed if people started singing super ched on Sunday!

 

[Valleyblade]

Can we just clear something up?

Ched cannot be said to be innocent. He has been found not guilty on appeal.

O j Simpson was found not guilty, but I'd say he's pretty fucking far from innocent.

Ched did sneak through the fire exit, did bring his brother to film it, and did appear at a premier inn to specifically fuck a drunken girl.

The issue of consent cannot be proven and so there is sufficient doubt to prove guilt. This doesn't make him innocent.

The old "if he were a wrongly convicted plumber" argument keeps coming up, suggesting it's the high profile nature of being a footballer that causes self righteous moral Crusaders like me to question the matter.

However, if my best, most highly paid plumber had had a night out like that in rhyll, resulting in my plumbing business failing, costing my business millions and handing the lost profit to my closest rival, then dragging my business through the dirt publicly, I'd be thinking, even after successful appeal "go be a plumber somewhere else mate."

I was gutted when ched went down, and felt it was a bizarre decision by the courts. I don't really have any moral issue with ched pursuing his career.

I'd just rather not pick at a puss filled wound just as its finally healed after 5 years. This decision really does feel that way

 

[Blade56]

that adds up to 120.3%

Reight poll

 

[Groucho Blade]

Seems pretty straightforward to me...those in favour 60%.
Those against, therefore, 40%; some of who have voted for more than one option.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Ok so let's look at this poll now and reflect....

356 Trust wilder
177 - No on football reasons
129 - Because of rifts
52 - morality reasons

Let's say the team and Ched have a fantastic pre-season. Ched is scoring for fun with the supply from our midfield maestros. We start the season off and are undefeated in August.

What happens to the numbers above then? - do we discount the 177 and 129? - there are no rifts and no footballing reasons for this now. Do those voters suddenly jump on to the morality wagon? I think not. So even if they don't move to another reason and trust wilder, we would then have a poll as such...

356 Trust wilder
0 - No of football reasons
0 - Because of rifts
52 - morality reasons


Given the above scenario if it played out as I said then options 2 and 3 are no longer valid.

All ifs and buts I know as nobody can know how it will play out but if Ched does sign on the dotted line I may not be far off the mark with my assumptions.

I don't mind if I am wrong (I am guessing) as nothing is guaranteed but what I am saying is...... give the guy a chance because if only 52 out of 714 think he shouldn't sign because he was unfaithful to his girlfriend really doesn't hold much weight for me. He is not a rapist!

Ched will be a changed man with what he has gone through and I would have thought he wouldn't dare look at another girl again for as long as he lives.

Looking forward to Sunday and please, no stupid Ched songs boys

UTMB

 

[SUFC Guy]

Seems pretty straightforward to me...those in favour 60%.
Those against, therefore, 40%; some of who have voted for more than one option.

But you can bet the members that voted more than once didn't choose option 1

 

[cahill]

Wow, didn't see that one coming

 

[Sheffsteel]

Can we just clear something up?

Ched cannot be said to be innocent. He has been found not guilty on appeal.

O j Simpson was found not guilty, but I'd say he's pretty fucking far from innocent.

Ched did sneak through the fire exit, did bring his brother to film it, and did appear at a premier inn to specifically fuck a drunken girl.

The issue of consent cannot be proven and so there is sufficient doubt to prove guilt. This doesn't make him innocent.

The old "if he were a wrongly convicted plumber" argument keeps coming up, suggesting it's the high profile nature of being a footballer that causes self righteous moral Crusaders like me to question the matter.

However, if my best, most highly paid plumber had had a night out like that in rhyll, resulting in my plumbing business failing, costing my business millions and handing the lost profit to my closest rival, then dragging my business through the dirt publicly, I'd be thinking, even after successful appeal "go be a plumber somewhere else mate."

I was gutted when ched went down, and felt it was a bizarre decision by the courts. I don't really have any moral issue with ched pursuing his career.

I'd just rather not pick at a puss filled wound just as its finally healed after 5 years. This decision really does feel that way

So are saying you disagree with players being unfaithful to their partners?
It's not a crime and many other players and people in society have done it.
If you had a plumbing business would all your staff need to be morally perfect?

You are judging a situation based on your morality, which is normal and fair.

It reminds me of people that want La Chambre closing down because the women there are surely being abused and taken advantage of by nasty men. Or people that want then burka banned because surely woman don't want to wear it and are being forced to cover up against their will by nasty men.

The other side of the coin is that there are plenty of women that love sex and would love threesomes in hotel rooms. Some men refuse to believe that woman can be sexual predators out looking for sex, it just won't sink in because it's impossible surely? Also plenty of women that want to cover up and wear the burka.

 

[I should coco]

Ched cannot be said to be innocent. He has been found not guilty on appeal.

You are incorrect.

The verdict was quashed subject to the retrial due to new evidence. The retrial replaced the original verdict as he was found not guilty. As such he is innocent and legally was 'wrongly convicted'.

The fact that what he did may upset people morally, is an entirely different thing. Evans is not a rapist in the eyes of the law.