Ched Evans interview

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

The time of your post speaks volumes. Why not go on the Daily Mail website and post in the 'Comments'? Some are criticising St. Jess of Ennis - can't let that pass, can we?

There's criticising (which is fine) and then there's full on character assassination which you seem hell bent on. This isn't the first time you've done this either. My first infraction on this website was for calling you a cunt for writing an abusive and totally out of order comment about her.

To be honest the only one who comes out of this badly is you. You've abused her personality, her achievements and her morality. In terms of a role model, I'm pretty sure99% of us on here with kids would be delighted if they turned out like her and achieved half as much as she has.

Now get back to your Daily Star you horrible human being.

 

[Davalon]

You keep saying this ,so I will ask because I cant grasp it ,why did she agree ?

Down to earth Sheffield lass not particularly fussed about football or Sheffield United, but with family with allegiance to the Blades.

Just had her fame ramped up notably by being the face of the Olympics and delivering under real pressure. Sponsors falling over themselves because of her wholesome girl next door image.

Local football club sees an opportunity knowing her family allegiance and they think it's great.

What would you really expect her to do? At that point I'm sure she didn't envisage a downside and had no particular reason to say no. As I keep saying i can just imagine the response from many if they'd found out she'd said no.

I've reiterated my support for Ched because of what he wrongly went through, but let's cut to the chase here. Some are clearly holding up a footballer with one good season who cheated on his girlfriend by tongueing a promiscuous bird that his mate had just shagged, over a respectable multiple medal winning athlete who is respected throughout the sporting world and should be a real pride of Sheffield.

However because she was advised to distance from a convicted rapist, and he was convicted at the time, she gets pelters from quite a few, some of them disgusting.

Based on some of the stuff I've read online in recent years from so called Blades, I don't think we can really take any higher ground.

 

[sitwell]

Seems to me that this whole episode was just a sleazy night that went tits up when the Welsh Police force decided that they'd go after a big name. It's pretty clear that the girl never accused Ched of rape and in my opinion decided to say that she couldn't remember anything, to avoid the embarrassment of washing her dirty washing in public. If the girl had woken up with her handbag, then no one would ever heard a thing about the matter. The real sadness for me is the way that it's totally wrecked two lives (and probably a lot more) and as such I'd like to see a little retribution towards the people who created it. Sounds like Ched's Father in law feels the same way. This matter is far from closed and I look forwards to hearing story of what happens next regarding the actions being taken against the Police and CPS. The main story here isn't about a rape, it's about the incompetency of the very people we trust serve and protect us. Bastards!!

Spot on ,and when you hear about some of the cases which are refused by the CPS it beggars belief how they let this one run.

 

[I should coco]

However from a footballing point of view Sheffield United is not a charity and his legs have clearly gone. No amount of pre-season training is going to change that I am afraid.

That his legs have 'gone' is not at all 'clear' from where I sit.

He picked up an injury at Chessie that was never sorted until the op last autumn. He is obviously short on match practice and will probably never be as fit as he was in his early 20's pomp, BUT you can't write him off. I'm trying to be sensible and hope it is not all wishful thinking on my part, but I still think there is a player in there. That hot shot and nose for goal don't disappear, even after 3 years of non-use. He might not make it at Championship level, but I for one am more than willing to let the lad have a go at it.

Two years inside for a 'crime' he didn't commit - he's banked plenty of goodwill from me and many other Blades.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

Let's not forget that Ched's case was used as a cause celebre for the domestic violence campaign. Victoria Derbyshire in particular, and a whole lot of politicians, media and other celebs jumped on the band wagon to shine the spotlight on the issue. Ched wasn't the issue - domestic violence was - and Ched just became the conduit through which they made their points on everything from Question Time to the local press. The flaw in their plan was that Ched's guilt was always questionable - but that was of secondary importance to driving the cause on. In one sense that's understandable - domestic violence needs to be ended.

But the second side of this is that justice was clearly failed - partly through the zeal of the domestic violence campaign who hijacked the case for their own ends. The fact that Victoria Derbyshire and the others have been astounding in their silence suggests that justice is still not seen to be as important as domestic violence - or at least not as newsworthy. It might be that Ched's interview will spur these people into voicing their support for the process of justice - but I doubt it. There's still a perception that Ched's money has bought his freedom and that justice has been corrupted not served in this case.

The club could make a stand here and rename the (old) Jess Ennis Stand the Ched Evans Justice Stand (can you imagine the fall out! ) .

 

[I should coco]

The club could make a stand here and rename the (old) Jess Ennis Stand the Ched Evans Justice Stand (can you imagine the fall out! ) .

A fanatastic idea!

We'd obviously have to massively increase forum server capacity and rename it 'ChedEvansSU' to make it easier for trolls to find.

Come on Foxy, you know it makes sense!

 

[wizadry]

Down to earth Sheffield lass not particularly fussed about football or Sheffield United, but with family with allegiance to the Blades.

As I keep saying i can just imagine the response from many if they'd found out she'd said no.

You made some good points but I keep seeing this above and I say this with no hindsight whatsoever because the answer to your second paragraph is answered by yourself in your first taking her family allegiance out of it because none of their names are on the stand.

Hardly anybody would’ve batted an eyelid had she said no and they’d have named the stand after someone who every Blade recognises. Let’s be honest, Athletics isn’t the most popular sport amongst football fans and there were far more deserving people to do with the club that the stand could and should’ve been named after. As I say Dav, this isn’t hindsight.

 

[Kezman17]

Not sure if anyone posted a link to the interview

https://talksport.com/football/excl...d-return-how-he-still-gets-abuse-fans-and-his

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Down to earth Sheffield lass not particularly fussed about football or Sheffield United, but with family with allegiance to the Blades.

Just had her fame ramped up notably by being the face of the Olympics and delivering under real pressure. Sponsors falling over themselves because of her wholesome girl next door image.

Local football club sees an opportunity knowing her family allegiance and they think it's great.

What would you really expect her to do? At that point I'm sure she didn't envisage a downside and had no particular reason to say no. As I keep saying i can just imagine the response from many if they'd found out she'd said no.

I've reiterated my support for Ched because of what he wrongly went through, but let's cut to the chase here. Some are clearly holding up a footballer with one good season who cheated on his girlfriend by tongueing a promiscuous bird that his mate had just shagged, over a respectable multiple medal winning athlete who is respected throughout the sporting world and should be a real pride of Sheffield.

However because she was advised to distance from a convicted rapist, and he was convicted at the time, she gets pelters from quite a few, some of them disgusting.

Based on some of the stuff I've read online in recent years from so called Blades, I don't think we can really take any higher ground.

Top post that, sensible, considered and level headed.

You made some good points but I keep seeing this above and I say this with no hindsight whatsoever because the answer to your second paragraph is answered by yourself in your first taking her family allegiance out of it because none of their names are on the stand.

Hardly anybody would’ve batted an eyelid had she said no and they’d have named the stand after someone who every Blade recognises. Let’s be honest, Athletics isn’t the most popular sport amongst football fans and there were far more deserving people to do with the club that the stand could and should’ve been named after. As I say Dav, this isn’t hindsight.

I do think that's with a lot of hindsight. You have to put forward a reason why she would say no. She would have had to answer to her own family who are apparently Blades, who would not understand why she wouldn't want to do it - it's not as if she can say she supports another team. "I'm not much interested in football" is not a reason. There was absolutely no downside for her at the time and she would undoubtedly have had at least a little pressure from her family, probably the nod from her PR people too. In fact I would be surprised if she didn't feel a little proud and honoured by it.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Seems to me that this whole episode was just a sleazy night that went tits up when the Welsh Police force decided that they'd go after a big name. It's pretty clear that the girl never accused Ched of rape and in my opinion decided to say that she couldn't remember anything, to avoid the embarrassment of washing her dirty washing in public. If the girl had woken up with her handbag, then no one would ever heard a thing about the matter. The real sadness for me is the way that it's totally wrecked two lives (and probably a lot more) and as such I'd like to see a little retribution towards the people who created it. Sounds like Ched's Father in law feels the same way. This matter is far from closed and I look forwards to hearing story of what happens next regarding the actions being taken against the Police and CPS. The main story here isn't about a rape, it's about the incompetency of the very people we trust serve and protect us. Bastards!!

FFS, another baseless accusation that the girl lied. What is it with people who have it fixed in their head that going through a rape trial is the easy option? She was apparently a right little strumpet which is apparently what was put before the appeal trial to prove Evans couldn't possibly have raped her - yet she was too embarrassed to admit that doing a second bloke on a night was so incredibly shameful to her, despite the fact that shagging one bloke she'd just met on a one night stand was already established, that she'd rather lie to the police and let the CPS prosecute someone she knew was innocent in her name. Can you not see how daft that sounds? And how is going through a rape trial with a famous footballer not "washing her dirty washing in public"???
The logic beggars belief.

I don't think there will be any retribution aimed at the authorities on this. If you'd followed the case in detail you'd understand the reasons for bringing it to trial; there only has to be a case to answer, it's not wrong to bring something to trial just because it ends in an aquital. There was no incompetency. The "new evidence" was controversial to say the least and had been rejected a number of times. The Police and CPS are not responsible for the way the media and certain prominent people use a case to further their own agendas.

 

[Chali 2na]

The general documented output of radio and other media that has revealed well paid footballers as having indulged in sexual exploration where more than one male is involved but only one female happens to be involved. It's not fabricated, apparently it has happened, here in good old blighty.

You'll need to pint out where I claimed that fit and well paid footballers are more likely to have this attitude. I searched but could not find an instance where I made this claim.

In post #109, you mentioned their salary which created a distinction between them and less paid, less fit people.

In post #132 you claimed "fit young sportsmen and above average incomes does impact on their behaviour and attitudes towards women in general."

The implication, to any reasonable person reading is clear.

The lack of social sophistication is evidenced by their willingness to enter into something that, as we've seen, had damaging effects on their careers

Why would they think consensual sex have damaging effects on their careers? They obviously didn't have the benifit of hindsight like you.

I doubt they imagined it would go wrong, I mean, they were fit, prime chunks of manhood who could flatter women they found to be receptive to the idea of being fucked. I also doubt that it wouldn't have crossed their minds that anything could go wrong, therefore any risk attached was at best nominal and worth disregarding. You may not equate this with a lack of sophistication, but it certainly wasn't something I'd associate with the sharpest tools in this particular box. Given the ramifications of what happened, my advice is not to tolerate the chance of doing anything that may harm a well paid career. Unless of course you imagine that nothing harmful will ever happen to you....in which case you rely of fortune as a guide to how to behave.

Again, you're casting aspersions about their attitude, entitlement, behaviour and social sophistication but what specifically about a drunken, consensual threesome evidences these assumptions?

What I know is this. Due to their behaviour, the men appear to have concluded that it was something that they were entitled to.

These things have only appeared to you: I don't know how you can make such an assumption without knowing them or being there.

This was set up before a girl had been approached, so the men involved had already concluded that it was acceptable, therefore they were entitled. Nothing baseless in that, their behaviour revealed that along with an underlying arrogance, they had concluded that there was a high percentage of certainty that what would follow would be theirs to do as they wished, aka entitlement.

That is all conjecture - you've made multiple negative assumptions about the personalities of these men with nothing to back it up.

 

[wizadry]

Top post that, sensible, considered and level headed.



I do think that's with a lot of hindsight. You have to put forward a reason why she would say no. She would have had to answer to her own family who are apparently Blades, who would not understand why she wouldn't want to do it - it's not as if she can say she supports another team. "I'm not much interested in football" is not a reason. There was absolutely no downside for her at the time and she would undoubtedly have had at least a little pressure from her family, probably the nod from her PR people too. In fact I would be surprised if she didn't feel a little proud and honoured by it.

Good points but my overriding point was answering Davs post regarding people slating her for saying no, I don’t think most people would’ve slated her because although she’s a top athlete, in my admittedly limited experience not many football fans are really fans of athletics, especially the heptathlon and decathlon events and wouldn’t have really known who she was and what she did until her name was put up on the stand which I suppose supports your point regarding the nod from her PR people.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Good points but my overriding point was answering Davs post regarding people slating her for saying no, I don’t think most people would’ve because although she’s a top athlete, in my admittedly limited experience not many football fans are really fans of athletics, especially the heptathlon and decathlon events and wouldn’t have really known who she was and what she did until her name was put up on the stand which I suppose supports your point regarding the nod from her PR people.

Provided it didn't get out, I would agree most Blades would have been ignorant of it and it wouldn't have mattered. Had it got out, even just "my mate's mate says..." I'm not sure. It might have been taken as a bit of an insult by some. Probably no big deal to her if a handful of Unitedites are a bit miffed that she turned a stadium naming down, but there's still no tangible reason for her to have said no.
(Actually, thinking about it, one reason would have been "I don't want to be partisan in my home city by aligning myself with just one of two clubs", but then her family will have influenced that.)

 

[wizadry]

Provided it didn't get out, I would agree most Blades would have been ignorant of it and it wouldn't have mattered. Had it got out, even just "my mate's mate says..." I'm not sure. It might have been taken as a bit of an insult by some. Probably no big deal to her if a handful of Unitedites are a bit miffed that she turned a stadium naming down, but there's still no tangible reason for her to have said no.
(Actually, thinking about it, one reason would have been "I don't want to be partisan in my home city by aligning myself with just one of two clubs", but then her family will have influenced that.)

Again, good points HB but we could go back and forth plenty of times over this and it really is time to move on from the whole sordid issue.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Chali 2na , without quoting and responding to all your points (that you're making to someone else anyway), I have to agree more or less with itsinyerblood . I think it's fairly clear that there was a sense of entitlement about the way the two of them went about their evening. In previous threads I've called it "predatory" which I think is what did for Evans in the first trial. The girl was there for the taking; she was pissed, they weren't particularly. Evans turning up to a room, pre-booked for the situation, knowing what was going on, for the purposes of getting some himself, all shouts of "self entitlement", unless you think he was there to try and chat her up, ask nicely and depart if the answer was not clearly in the affirmative - even then, I'm of the opinion that he took advantage of a woman in a vulnerable position just by turning up.
Also I do think the money and the status of footballers played a role. It must be very hard for young men to have a correct perspective when girls throw themselves at them all the time. Although there's a contradiction there (why did they need to behave as they did if girls are really that easy?). Gold digging has become all too common and even acceptable and it's difficult to believe it doesn't alter a young man's view of the world.
I'm still of the opinion the first trial delivered the correct verdict, but even if it had delivered a different verdict, I think the attitudes of the two of them, particularly Evans, even if not illegal, are fairly clear.

 

[Booker4]

Simon Jordan said that if he was Kevin McCabe he would have stripped Jessica Ennis' name off the stand as soon as she piped up and contributed hugely to putting the club in the position it was.

I couldn't agree more and it still winds me up thinking about it.

That we named a stand after her in the first place was totally pathetic, let alone generous and unnecessary. To then leave her name on it after she threw it back in our face was so pitifully weak and a total insult to ourselves. We did ourselves a huge disservice.

The silence from Ennis since he was found not guilty has been deafening.

Same goes for all the ignorant attention seeking preaching fuckwits who reported it so unfairly and said such vile, damaging things.

He didn't because even though he might have wanted to do that, it would have been more bad press and continued the circus even further at a time when we had so much bad press.

 

[Wilderat Heart]

Of all the crap that surrounds this issue the one that gets me most pissed off is the bile that Jessica Ennis gets from some posters on here, yes i'm a football fan but guess what I still enjoy watching other sports and i like to think being a football fan doesn't stop me appreciating other sports. In truth id rather watch an England cricket or rugby game than most matches not involving the Blades. So take the best player in the world Pele Maradona Messi tell them they have to take a penalty 7 times in a row and not just score but score perfectly every time or they lose everything. Tell them they wont be paid while training for ten years but part way through their careers might get living and training expenses paid if they manage to convince a govt department they have a chance of doing this at a major tournament. Tell them that before they compete in the most important event of their lives that their image will be plastered across the country including a giant field outside heathrow that is seen by every landing plane. then tell them for the first time that if they succeed they will make enough money in the next few years to provide for their family but if they miss a penalty probably not. give them opponents with almost as much skill just as much dedication and sadly in some cases illegal state sponsored medical help. then tell then to score everytime. Jessica Ennis did that, Sheffield City council should have put up a bloody statue, possibly they would have named Don Valley after her but of course they knocked it down. she was born and raised literally 5 minutes walk from the stand United named after her. She then gets dragged into the shitstorm surrounding Ched and is advised I'm sure she has to make a statement so she did. She is still getting dragged into this, "Some lass who can run a bit" Sometimes I'm truly staggered by the ability of United fans to look like arseholes. I hope Ched comes back close to what he was. I hope we as a fanbase can move on but this thread suggests probably not.

 

[itsinyerblood]

In post #109, you mentioned their salary which created a distinction between them and less paid, less fit people.

In post #132 you claimed "fit young sportsmen and above average incomes does impact on their behaviour and attitudes towards women in general."

The implication, to any reasonable person reading is clear.

The construction of your reply assumes that only one 'implication' can be reached and is therefore shared by what you term 'reasonable' people. Let's get this straight, it's your conclusion, it belongs to no one else. Acting as unappointed team leader isn't something I'd advise, but your choice of course.

Why would they think consensual sex have damaging effects on their careers? They obviously didn't have the benifit of hindsight like you.

Correct, hindsight is a wonderful thing, unfortunately it's all any of us have regarding this case. If they didn't think about the damaging effect of their behaviour then, they certainly will do now.

Again, you're casting aspersions about their attitude, entitlement, behaviour and social sophistication but what specifically about a drunken, consensual threesome evidences these assumptions?

So did entitlements exist or not? You now appear to swing away from suggesting that they didn't, which makes what you previously stated a tad confusing. The use of the term 'drunken' presumably implies that you consider all the participants completely out of their skulls, therefore unable to make reasoned decisions. We'll have to disagree (I know, can you believe it?), I think there was sufficient awareness, and thus capability, to make decisions that would negatively impact on their lives. I've a feeling you'll disagree with this.

These things have only appeared to you: I don't know how you can make such an assumption without knowing them or being there.

So regardless of the facts, and that both males, in advance, had planned something that would act as a blueprint for what might follow, you still insist that it's not possible to draw a conclusion? Good luck with that one. Why is 'knowing' them more likely to understand what happened. I don't know murderer's or rapists, yet with the benefit of documented evidence it's possible to comprehend their actions, or is that something we shouldn't include in the process of reaching a decision?

I may retire from this, it's becoming circular and thus tiresome, 'He said, she said' in effect, and before too long we'll return to our original positions, but knock yourself out if it suits your temperament.

That is all conjecture - you've made multiple negative assumptions about the personalities of these men with nothing to back it up.

'With nothing to back it up', really? The fact that the events that took place resulted in a legal case that was featured in detain via national media for the length of the case, surely this provides anyone with sufficient information to back it up? Conjecture has nothing to do with this. You may disagree with my views and how they were reached, but there's ample information and evidence that enables anyone to reach decisions if they choose to. I recall a previous poster, @Darren, reaching similar conclusions to myself about the probable pre-planned approach adopted by both males. Although you may discount this, Darren is a solicitor who specialise in criminal law.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Chali 2na , without quoting and responding to all your points (that you're making to someone else anyway), I have to agree more or less with itsinyerblood . I think it's fairly clear that there was a sense of entitlement about the way the two of them went about their evening. In previous threads I've called it "predatory" which I think is what did for Evans in the first trial. The girl was there for the taking; she was pissed, they weren't particularly. Evans turning up to a room, pre-booked for the situation, knowing what was going on, for the purposes of getting some himself, all shouts of "self entitlement", unless you think he was there to try and chat her up, ask nicely and depart if the answer was not clearly in the affirmative - even then, I'm of the opinion that he took advantage of a woman in a vulnerable position just by turning up.
Also I do think the money and the status of footballers played a role. It must be very hard for young men to have a correct perspective when girls throw themselves at them all the time. Although there's a contradiction there (why did they need to behave as they did if girls are really that easy?). Gold digging has become all too common and even acceptable and it's difficult to believe it doesn't alter a young man's view of the world.
I'm still of the opinion the first trial delivered the correct verdict, but even if it had delivered a different verdict, I think the attitudes of the two of them, particularly Evans, even if not illegal, are fairly clear.

That's a fair summary of events, probably better summarised than my far too lengthy replies. I think the brief description you've offered of young footballers and their social context is an accurate reflection of what contributed to a case that had devastating consequences for all concerned. At best Evans was stupid and arrogant, at worst.....well I'll let those who are interested draw their own conclusions. There's an Americanism, 'Young, dumb, and full of cum', I think this isn't far off what caused this case to happen. Well said mate.

 

[Booker4]

He spoke to Jim White yesterday for about 10 minutes in the Copthorne Hotel yesterday.

Main points were
He always believed and said he was innocent and he found it tough in prison.
Said he coped by taking each day as it comes
Said he’s got no bitterness about the events because he’s still young with a lot of life to look forward to.
Said he felt terrible for his family and friends who were receiving terrible abuse and shame at the time due to seeing his face on the front page of papers.
Mentioned that the media were making a big deal asking him to apologise but he again said it was weird because as he was innocent he strongly felt that he shouldn’t apologies but the media criticised him even more.
Said he is really grateful to SU and the fans for giving him the opportunity to resurrect his career.
Said he’s been unfortunate with injuries but really feels he’s now a better player and is still hopeful of playing in the PL, said SU are close to the playoffs so hopefully we would get promoted this season.
He still has ambitions to play for Giggs Wales team.
Said he still receives abuse at about 70% of away matches, said they call him rapist this and rapist that
But said it doesn’t let it bother him.
He also admitted that he’s never spoke to the media since leaving prison and he feels better to finally speak about it.

My views on Ched haven't really changed from the outset. I always thought the original verdict was bizarre and didn't add up but saying that it he was stupid and put himself in a situation where it didn't look good. The media were always going to relish every minute of a story - it keeps them in a job. Also sadly football fans will always sing rapist without really caring because ts "banter".

I can't agree he is as good as he was though, sorry. He was never a target man and never known for being strong - he was known for great finishing and having that turn of pace. I hope he does well, we all obviously want that but I have my doubts right now.

 

[wizadry]

Of all the crap that surrounds this issue the one that gets me most pissed off is the bile that Jessica Ennis gets from some posters on here, yes i'm a football fan but guess what I still enjoy watching other sports and i like to think being a football fan doesn't stop me appreciating other sports. In truth id rather watch an England cricket or rugby game than most matches not involving the Blades. So take the best player in the world Pele Maradona Messi tell them they have to take a penalty 7 times in a row and not just score but score perfectly every time or they lose everything. Tell them they wont be paid while training for ten years but part way through their careers might get living and training expenses paid if they manage to convince a govt department they have a chance of doing this at a major tournament. Tell them that before they compete in the most important event of their lives that their image will be plastered across the country including a giant field outside heathrow that is seen by every landing plane. then tell them for the first time that if they succeed they will make enough money in the next few years to provide for their family but if they miss a penalty probably not. give them opponents with almost as much skill just as much dedication and sadly in some cases illegal state sponsored medical help. then tell then to score everytime. Jessica Ennis did that, Sheffield City council should have put up a bloody statue, possibly they would have named Don Valley after her but of course they knocked it down. she was born and raised literally 5 minutes walk from the stand United named after her. She then gets dragged into the shitstorm surrounding Ched and is advised I'm sure she has to make a statement so she did. She is still getting dragged into this, "Some lass who can run a bit" Sometimes I'm truly staggered by the ability of United fans to look like arseholes. I hope Ched comes back close to what he was. I hope we as a fanbase can move on but this thread suggests probably not.

If that’s a dig at my post and point towards football fans not liking Athletics, especially Heptathlon and Decathlon then you’re wide of the mark both against me and fans in general not being bothered about it.

For one, i like athletics, I used to run the 1500 metres for school, I was and am still really fond of it.

For two, that doesn’t change the fact though that if you were to have a poll on here I will almost guarantee you that it will be a very very low percentage that actually like or even watch athletics, especially the two events I mention hence my point that nobody will have been bothered whether her name was on the stand or not.

What a wank topic! I thought I could move on but there’s always someone to stir the shit, and for all the crap on the issue!

Happy Friday!

 

[Chali 2na]

Chali 2na , without quoting and responding to all your points (that you're making to someone else anyway), I have to agree more or less with itsinyerblood . I think it's fairly clear that there was a sense of entitlement about the way the two of them went about their evening. In previous threads I've called it "predatory" which I think is what did for Evans in the first trial. The girl was there for the taking; she was pissed, they weren't particularly. Evans turning up to a room, pre-booked for the situation, knowing what was going on, for the purposes of getting some himself, all shouts of "self entitlement", unless you think he was there to try and chat her up, ask nicely and depart if the answer was not clearly in the affirmative - even then, I'm of the opinion that he took advantage of a woman in a vulnerable position just by turning up.
Also I do think the money and the status of footballers played a role. It must be very hard for young men to have a correct perspective when girls throw themselves at them all the time. Although there's a contradiction there (why did they need to behave as they did if girls are really that easy?). Gold digging has become all too common and even acceptable and it's difficult to believe it doesn't alter a young man's view of the world.
I'm still of the opinion the first trial delivered the correct verdict, but even if it had delivered a different verdict, I think the attitudes of the two of them, particularly Evans, even if not illegal, are fairly clear.

no body

It's normally my wish to respond to each point individually, but due to the size of the replies, I can't. Ill reply to you both with the same answer:

1.)Based on the coverage of the incident, I don't think the actions of any of the 3 people involved were immoral or wrong, and as a result I wont make any assumptions about their character.

2.)I have no evidence to suggest that footballers treat women any differently to your average young man. They are obviously more attractive to women, but it doesn't follow that they treat women badly as a result.

 

[itsinyerblood]

It's normally my wish to respond to each point individually, but due to the size of the replies, I can't. Ill reply to you both with the same answer:

1.)Based on the coverage of the incident, I don't think the actions of any of the 3 people involved were immoral or wrong, and as a result I wont make any assumptions about their character.

Neither do I think the behaviour was immoral, ill-judged probably, but that's a different question. As long as something is consensual and agreed upon then it's no one else's business. Unfortunately, in this instance both footballers seem to have forgotten that their actions would be under the spotlight of public gaze. What followed is now well documented, but just to repeat, my comments were never based on moral disapproval. Stupidity and arrogance yes, but I think this has been twisted enough not to continue with, agree?

2.)I have no evidence to suggest that footballers treat women any differently to your average young man. They are obviously more attractive to women, but it doesn't follow that they treat women badly as a result.

It's not a case of whether footballer's are an exception to every other group of males. They come from the same stock as most of us, but where they differ is in the treatment they receive that can often separate them from life's realities. I must stress, this doesn't mean that all footballers are like this, but for those that are, well it's been demonstrated that some consider their behaviour as being beyond and above the behaviour patterns of most other folks. I've no doubt there are professional footballers who are sound as a pound, and to this group I wish them nothing but the best that life brings them. And I must also stress, this is not just restricted to sport, where there is fantasy incomes and no one to advise reasonable behaviour, it should come as a surprise that the actions of these individuals is viewed as shocking.

 

[Chali 2na]

It's not a case of whether footballer's are an exception to every other group of males. They come from the same stock as most of us, but where they differ is in the treatment they receive that can often separate them from life's realities. I must stress, this doesn't mean that all footballers are like this, but for those that are, well it's been demonstrated that some consider their behaviour as being beyond and above the behaviour patterns of most other folks. I've no doubt there are professional footballers who are sound as a pound, and to this group I wish them nothing but the best that life brings them. And I must also stress, this is not just restricted to sport, where there is fantasy incomes and no one to advise reasonable behaviour, it should come as a surprise that the actions of these individuals is viewed as shocking.

Both of these are your quotes:

It's not a case of whether footballer's are an exception to every other group of males. They come from the same stock as most of us

fit young sportsmen and above average incomes does impact on their behaviour and attitudes towards women in general."

So, to clear up your position, could you answer the following: Are footballers attitudes towards women different to the average young man, in general?

 

[Esablade]

..that t'owd Ched eh...

 

[itsinyerblood]

Both of these are your quotes:





So, to clear up your position, could you answer the following: Are footballers attitudes towards women different to the average young man, in general?

Some are, yes. Hope that answers your question. Unless you don't feel completely vindicated, then of course you'll have to continue with another set of inexhaustible questions.

 

[Chali 2na]

Some are, yes. Hope that answers your question. Unless you don't feel completely vindicated, then of course you'll have to continue with another set of inexhaustible questions.

They may feel inexhaustible because your replies are so meandering and inconsistent and thus attract more questions.

This, in addition to the fact that your posts are conveluted, poorly formatted and for some inexplicable reason, often in red.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Some men with power, money, fame or influence use it to exploit women and clearly feel they have an entitlement.
Some footballers would fit that category.

 

[itsinyerblood]

They may feel inexhaustible because your replies are so meandering and inconsistent and thus attract more questions.

This, in addition to the fact that your posts are conveluted, poorly formatted and for some inexplicable reason, often in red.

In one fell swoop you've undermined your own argument. My posts are rarely in red, you happen to be the exception, so less of the over-egging and stick to the facts, it'll help both of us.

As for the remainder of your comments, sticks and stones etc etc. It might explain why I was paid to contribute towards The Observer, American Vogue, The New York Times, The Face, Arena, and countless other publications of note. They clearly had no such problem with my contributions, so quite probably any perceived problem is yours and yours alone.

 

[JJ Sefton]

In one fell swoop you've undermined your own argument. My posts are rarely in red, you happen to be the exception, so less of the over-egging and stick to the facts, it'll help both of us.

As for the remainder of your comments, sticks and stones etc etc. It might explain why I was paid to contribute towards The Observer, American Vogue, The New York Times, The Face, Arena, and countless other publications of note. They clearly had no such problem with my contributions, so quite probably any perceived problem is yours and yours alone.

Can you honestly say that you've never done what Ched did that night?