Category A in the 3rd division

[diplomat]

It's been mentioned elsewhere but I think that a flat price for tickets is appropriate for our current situation with four or five discount games. I've just paid over sixty quid for two tickets to watch statistically the worst two Sheffield teams in over 30 years go head to head. (for my bro and his missus)

The same pricing structure for last night meant that we had a crap turnout. Just cos they're up the road doesn't make them more attractive or a rival. It doesn't make the ticket more desirable. I know three season ticket holders who didn't go last night (admittedly for different reasons) and there was no devastation on their part for missing the game, no clamour for the chance of a free ticket from people I offered it to. One mate chose to go to the pub and another to fix a radiator rather than come for free.

Half our ground is empty. The only time you can justify tiered pricing is when there is such a fervour about the place that it's full every week. Even then it smells a bit like a robbing dog to do it.

 

[MunXy]

league 1 has no cat A teams, no man ures, chelski, liverpool etc, not even newcastle, man city or west ham.
i dont even class donny or dingles cat A, so how can a third rate team like huddersfield rate top ticket pricing?
the powers at the lane should have taken current economic climate, total failure last season, fact we are in league 1 and loyalty of the fans to price games at a flat rate of £15, with this it might have just coaxed more fans to return, better atmosphere and give a little back to badly treated fans to build bridges between the out of touch board and the fans, plus it might just bring in the next gen of blades fans, the youngsters who should be allowed in for a fiver each game.
support is theoxygen that keeps a club going, the more fans inside gives team confidence and gives opponants a disadvantage with a fear factor.
get the act together at SUFC and get it sorted soon.

MunXy

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Totally agree - charging those prices for League 1 football is a disgrace. I'm a ST holder but would be more than happy if people were charged £15 to get in. I just want as many fans there as possible. It's just another example of poor decision making by the Board in recent years.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

There is only one Cat A team in the world so until SUFC v The Blades is drawn in a cup game they can stuff 'A' where the sun don't shine.

 

[Bladesway]

But all TRUE blades will be there. Been a bone of contention for me because its just ripping fans off. They should do flat rates so you know what you are paying no matter who is turning up to play you. Surely profiteering out of Man U and Chelsea is bad enough, but profiteering out of Huddersfield Town in Division 3 is an utter disgrace.

 

[super_pig]

i have an ST and all the tickets should be fifteen quid per game.. it still makes the ST a good option.. mind you there'll be loads of small minded bastards bleating. you watch

 

[Bladesway]

i have an ST and all the tickets should be fifteen quid per game.. it still makes the ST a good option.. mind you there'll be loads of small minded bastards bleating. you watch

And you will get more than 20k per game.

 

[Tuns]

Ticket prices are a bit of red herring. The real trick we missed and many fans seem to miss was in April when the club decided to reduce the number of ST holders after losing thousands of ST holders the year before. The club knew we would lose thousands of ST holders unless it did something innovative but the club decided to accept the hit which has seen us lose around 40% of our ST holders in 18 months.

Attendances and size of club etc are largely dictated by ST sales in the modern game. Attendances do not fluctuate much on performance, the market has changed.

Yes match ticket prices affect attendance to a degree - I went to the Bury game but did not go last night due to price and two mates did the same.

But the reality is that an ex ST holder will not go to every home match on a match by match basis indeed as I've learnt once you get out of the habit and with all the hassle and cost of buying tickets you start to choose your matches even if the team is doing well.

I know it's boring and I bang on about it but United must be more dynamic and imaginative about ST sales or the club will continue its decline cos its foundations won't be there for the future..

Yes the prices were silly last night and I don't care who is charging what elsewhere. The price is just too high.

Following the logic of some Blades we perhaps should have charged another fiver last night cos if we only have lost another 500 fans we would make more money. Is that a way to run a club that is part of the community that tries to support it or to build a club for the future with a large fanbase.

And the decision not to have any special offers this season - barmy.

The club needs to find a way of engaging with the 10,000 to 15,000 ex ST holders and floating fans (we have all their details on a database it's not hard but it will involve more than reading fans forums I'm afraid) and finding out what and how to tempt them back.

That's if the owners have any drive anymore.

 

[super_pig]

the whole seating arrangements aren't set up to cater for 'floating fans'.. it seems you have a ST or don't bother coming is the attitude.. i saw a mate of mine in town a couple of weeks ago before the brentford (?) game.. i told him i was going to the game.. he asked if he could come .. i basically said 'well you won't be able to get a ticket and you can't sit near me'.. so he didn't bother.. he used to be a big fan, away games and everything.. like tuns says it is an addiction/habit (personally i think it is the atmosphere that causes it) and united need to come up with a way of hooking people back in..
as i've said before the ST should admit you to an area so you can sit where you like.. i'm not interested in Block H arguments.. they have to make it work.. if your mates buy tickets for that end then they can sit with you as well.. the atmosphere is killed as well.. noone sings anymore because they are sat in ones and two's with people they don't know

 

[Bladesway]

Ticket prices are a bit of red herring. The real trick we missed and many fans seem to miss was in April when the club decided to reduce the number of ST holders after losing thousands of ST holders the year before. The club knew we would lose thousands of ST holders unless it did something innovative but the club decided to accept the hit which has seen us lose around 40% of our ST holders in 18 months.

Attendances and size of club etc are largely dictated by ST sales in the modern game. Attendances do not fluctuate much on performance, the market has changed.

Yes match ticket prices affect attendance to a degree - I went to the Bury game but did not go last night due to price and two mates did the same.

But the reality is that an ex ST holder will not go to every home match on a match by match basis indeed as I've learnt once you get out of the habit and with all the hassle and cost of buying tickets you start to choose your matches even if the team is doing well.

I know it's boring and I bang on about it but United must be more dynamic and imaginative about ST sales or the club will continue its decline cos its foundations won't be there for the future..

Yes the prices were silly last night and I don't care who is charging what elsewhere. The price is just too high.

Following the logic of some Blades we perhaps should have charged another fiver last night cos if we only have lost another 500 fans we would make more money. Is that a way to run a club that is part of the community that tries to support it or to build a club for the future with a large fanbase.

And the decision not to have any special offers this season - barmy.

The club needs to find a way of engaging with the 10,000 to 15,000 ex ST holders and floating fans (we have all their details on a database it's not hard but it will involve more than reading fans forums I'm afraid) and finding out what and how to tempt them back.

That's if the owners have any drive anymore.

Its not boring so far as I am concerned Tuns. Its on the money. Bearing in mind we pay people to be exactly what you ask us to be (dynamic with initiatives etc) its deeply disappointing that fans can actually do a better job than these chimps in marketing. You see its all very well the top brass coming out with strap lines and comments like "community club" and how we are the peoples club (or whatever Mcshortarms dreams up next) but if you don't pass that down the line to your employees then you are a rudderless ship.

Unfortunately when you get your mouthpiece on a website to tell everyone the club is listening it would be really, really nice if there was some example of that happening.

 

[grafikhaus]

And the decision not to have any special offers this season - barmy.

The club needs to find a way of engaging with the 10,000 to 15,000 ex ST holders and floating fans (we have all their details on a database it's not hard but it will involve more than reading fans forums I'm afraid) and finding out what and how to tempt them back.

That's if the owners have any drive anymore.

Good post, Tuns, but the fact that it's all so bleedin' obvious makes it even more maddening.

We're in an economic downturn. Money is tight. So why do United have to throw up every obstacle to actually going to a match?

Categories A/B/C, Loyalty points, no half season tickets, massive queues if you're daft enough to pay on the day. It's all utterly crap.

T'other night, I fancied just nipping down to Burton but didn't know what hoops were involved, such as could you pay at the turnstile etc., so I didn't bother.

Remember those far off days when you'd meet up with some mates and say 'I know! Let's go down to t'match!'? Increasingly difficult nowadays. But with so many other distractions to football this is suicidal behaviour.

But what do I know? 20 years in marketing counts for nothing when we can blow £400k p.a. on chancers like Birch.

 

[Muttley]

As I can only get to night matches these days (work commitments), I was in a bit of a quandry about going last night. £26? FFS!!

Anyway I decided to go, mainly because there are very few night matches, and the current form of the team.

I came away feeling robbed. If they continue to charge £26 for a 3rd tier match then I wont be going.

 

[axel smeets]

Just checked pigs website. They have been allocated 4300 tickets at £28.50. Will they sell all their allocation and will United shift at least 12-13000 tickets for this game, or will United's pricing 'plan' see a post war low for a Sheffield derby in the league?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Just checked pigs website. They have been allocated 4300 tickets at £28.50. Will they sell all their allocation and will United shift at least 12-13000 tickets for this game, or will United's pricing 'plan' see a post war low for a Sheffield derby in the league?

Sell out easy

 

[raul]

Noon on Sunday? £31 a pop? Have a word Grumpy.

 

[alcoblade]

Is it on Sky? Is it part of a package with Stevenage and other such giants? If so, not a chance. If not, maybe just.

To be fair to the club, this game is the only one that actually stands out from the others. Putting it in the same category as Huddersfield is a joke. Either way, £20 for third division football is too expensive, >£25 is robbery.

 

[axel smeets]

Is it on Sky? Is it part of a package with Stevenage and other such giants? If so, not a chance. If not, maybe just.

To be fair to the club, this game is the only one that actually stands out from the others. Putting it in the same category as Huddersfield is a joke. Either way, £20 for third division football is too expensive, >£25 is robbery.

I don't believe so. United should have charged a flat £16 on the Kop, £20 in South and John Street and BL Corner this season with the exception of the swfc fixture, where they should have announced that matchday prices would increase by £4. That's what I'd have done.

 

[alcoblade]

I don't believe so. United should have charged a flat £16 on the Kop, £20 in South and John Street and BL Corner this season with the exception of the swfc fixture, where they should have announced that matchday prices would increase by £4. That's what I'd have done.

Depends on your motives. I'll be amazed if your formula (for this game) wouldn't result in the club losing several hundred thousand pounds. Most fans just want to see higher numbers and / or just pay less for the product. It would be nice, but only in a world where you can "pay 'em in washers". Having said that, i do think we've cocked the pricing up a bit this year.

UTB

 

[MunXy]

mathmatically (admittedly not my strong point) but wouldnt 5-7,000 extra fans paying a tenner less actually increase revanue what with programmes, food etc inside the ground plus the added advantage as ive mentioned before would increase atmosphere making the lane a truely formidable place for league 1 teams, mostly used to 4-7,000 fans in a ground to come out infront of a hostile 25,000+ crowd.
im sure our many accountants on here will pull this to pieces but if we are losing x,000 per game anyway, if we were to break even (i mean similar amount of loss with lower prices) or similar, surely from a support for the team basis it would be a decent idea?

MunXy

 

[alcoblade]

mathmatically (admittedly not my strong point) but wouldnt 5-7,000 extra fans paying a tenner less actually increase revanue what with programmes, food etc inside the ground plus the added advantage as ive mentioned before would increase atmosphere making the lane a truely formidable place for league 1 teams, mostly used to 4-7,000 fans in a ground to come out infront of a hostile 25,000+ crowd.
im sure our many accountants on here will pull this to pieces but if we are losing x,000 per game anyway, if we were to break even (i mean similar amount of loss with lower prices) or similar, surely from a support for the team basis it would be a decent idea?

MunXy

The Maths aren't difficlut, what's difficult is knowing what the gate would have been for the same game given different pricing structures.

The club is better off getting 25,000 at £30 than 30,000 at £15. But we can only gues at the gates.


It's a fine balance. The club have got it wrong this year. Most fans would, IMHO, have them get it wrong the other way.

UTB

 

[axel smeets]

Depends on your motives. I'll be amazed if your formula (for this game) wouldn't result in the club losing several hundred thousand pounds. Most fans just want to see higher numbers and / or just pay less for the product. It would be nice, but only in a world where you can "pay 'em in washers". Having said that, i do think we've cocked the pricing up a bit this year.

UTB

Do you think so alco? I'd abolish the CAT C games that the club probably does lose thousands on. That surely would put us at least £100 000 up on gate receipts?

I'm no accountant, of course I would be corrected, but how many Blades do you think paid cash last night? I'd say that with 17300 in the ground, there were 1800 Huddersfield fans, 11000 were ST holders, leaving 4500 paying cash. At around £28 on average per ticket, let's say that 3500 were adults. Thats around £90000 collected. Again, these are only ballpark figures.

Now if United were charging £19 on average, I'm guessing that at least an extra 2000 turn up. Thats about £105 000. Not a massive increase, but bums on seats nonetheless. If Huddersfield, who took 4k to Hillsborough last season, brought an extra 2000 as well, meaning they brought 3800 at £19 each, that's £72000. A total of £177k for yesterday.

If United have seen last night's gate, and they have got rid of this Lewis guy who was previously in charge of pricing, they can't surely allow this situation to continue. Do we really want a crowd of 23000 against swfc?

 

[alcoblade]

I've not made my point well, or I don't understand yours. I think we agree. I agree the pricing was silly last night. The away support comparison says it all. My point is that many fas would have it the other way (too cheap pricing) on the false premise that we'd fill the ground, with a resulting loss in revenue. At some point you lose money - and again, I'd agree we should bin the cat C games - or drasticaly reduce the difference between A and C.

My initial point on here was that for the Wendy game alone, they'll probably do well out of the pricing, providing it's not televised.

UTB

 

[axel smeets]

No, I think we're singing off the same hymn sheet! Last night should be a massive wake up call. The McCabe family should face upto either reducing these prices by at least 20% or face a crowd of 23k v the massive.

 

[diplomat]

Regardless of break even points we need to keep as many people as active fans as possible. A combination of fair pricing, ease of access and allowing casuals to be near mates when they do go with ease will all help. Once the habit is broken it is hard to tempt people back. So the key is to not give people the excuse to break it (with being really shit the only excuse allowed - and that won't stop most)

Relying on a hardcore turning up whatever happens will only result in that number dwindling.

 

[travellingblade]

My wife and I left Manchester Airport (after a meeting in a hotel, not returning from a flight) at 4:00 p.m. on Tuesday afternoon, and saw that the Woodhead was closed and so we came over the Snake pass, and effectively drove past Bramall Lane.

I asked her if she fancied going to the game, and she said "why not?", and then told her it would cost over £60 (we prefer not to sit on the kop), and so we drove past and went home.

We're both supporters of over 40 years, but clearly not "True Blades".

QED

 

[Bladesway]

Heres hoping someone from the executive team at McCabe Industries reads posts like yours TB and quickly does something about it. More bums on seats has a massive knock on in both financial and more importantly from my own perspective on the pitch activities. I was listining to Citeh fans on Talk Sport yesterday moaning about their systems and how you can't just turn up and watch any longer. For them it may be understandable, for us its a shame on our club and the administrators who run it. Its Third Division football FFS, you should be able to rack up, pay £15 (cash if you like) and in you go. Does it really need to be more complicated than that?

 

[axel smeets]

Also, when it comes to the run - in in late March, April: lets say that United are in the hunt for automatic. Reducing the prices now and accepting they are too high would be a good way to guarantee 20000+ at home games on the run in.

 

[diplomat]

Another thing that is sometimes mentioned by clubs (not necessarily ours admittedly) is that nowadays the gate receipts are a smaller amount of income than once was the case compared to other revenue. Over the last few years our turnover would have had more from sponsorship and tv money than gates, I'd say. In which case, surely a club with higher attendances, memberships, season ticket sales etc will attract more lucrative sponsorship that can supplement any perceived lost revenue.

I was proud of the way we built up our attendances and were encouraging a new generation on the JSS. I always tried to "bring a friend" when an offer was on so as to support what I thought was a good initiative. To lose that is sad and if I didn't have a season ticket I'd be a very infrequent attender. I'd probably prefer to spend more going on an away day than, say two home games, if it were to come to that.

Re: Travelling Blade - It's a while ago now but most of the games I went to when I first started were last minute decisions, impromptu attendance as a youth. Now - regardless of price - that does seem harder as planning to order and pick up tickets can be a ball ache.

 

[axel smeets]

At least one cash only turnstile on each stand would be a good start. Even though I am a season ticket holder, it must be an absoloute ball ache if you decide to go on the day of the game. When I had a few years without one from 2002-2005, I'd still roll out of the pub at 2.50, walk up to the Kop, hand over a 20, and in I went. And I wasn't the only one. Knowing that there was a cash turnstile on each stand would surely encourage a bigger walk up crowd.

 

[Rattly Noise]

No guarantee that lower prices mean higher gates or rather high enough gates. You can lower the price to something more reasonable, but you still might only end up with the same money in the pot as if you charge a higher price and get a smaller crowd. We're in League One and for many people that's just not attractive enough, no matter who we play. Stick us in the Premiership and there's people that will pay double, it's just supply and demand and at the moment there's not that much demand.

Might make a loss with the Cat C games but aim to pick that up with Cat A and hope thaty a few of the Cat C fans will also come along to the Cat B. It is about getting the balance right and at £28 I agree that the club got it wrong. Far better to stick a a couple of quid on the Cat C and B and do away with Cat A altogether imo. As a customer you feel less ripped off etc... etc..

Anyway I thought there was some law that said that you couldn't charge away fans more than the home fans in an equivalent stand. If there's not, there ought to be.