Burnley - financial problems?

[McGrath]

Probably Egan-Riley as well.

I think. I heard that he's out of contract

 

[BladeInIreland]

I think. I heard that he's out of contract

Him and Brownhill i think.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

They have one more year of parachute payments, right? They would probably have to sell a few players though which won't make it easier next season.

One of my Leeds supporting mates reckons there’ll be a fire sale there if they don’t go up this year. Not sure I totally agree as the 49ers lot surely have the money to back them again

 

[dsr-burnley]

One of my Leeds supporting mates reckons there’ll be a fire sale there if they don’t go up this year. Not sure I totally agree as the 49ers lot surely have the money to back them again

Do the 49ers lot want to back them, though? Obviously Man United's owners are in it for the money they can take out, not what they can put in. Burnley's owners the same - they "borrowed" £125m interest free from the club (up to July 2023) and the club is paying £10m+ interest each year to fund that loan. The American sports model as a whole is that the owners take money out of the club, not put it in.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Do the 49ers lot want to back them, though? Obviously Man United's owners are in it for the money they can take out, not what they can put in. Burnley's owners the same - they "borrowed" £125m interest free from the club (up to July 2023) and the club is paying £10m+ interest each year to fund that loan. The American sports model as a whole is that the owners take money out of the club, not put it in.

Time will tell I guess although you saying that does make me slightly worried about our ownership group again

 

[loyalblade95]

Probably Egan-Riley as well.

Out of contract I think, same with Brownhill

 

[Balham]

View attachment 207532

Kompany may have spent a lot to fail miserably but Burnley made a profit on every player bought by Kompany who has subsequently been sold, which would suggest that they signed some good ones. Dyche signed hoofball merchants and played hoofball.

Signed in 2023
*Odobert - in for £10m, out for £25m
Berge - in for £15m, out for £20m
O'Shea - in for £7m, out for £12.5m
Al-Dakhil - in for £4m, out for £8m

Signed in 2022
Muric - in for £2.5m, out for £8m
Vitinho - in for £1m, out for £7m
Zaroury - in for £4m, out for £4.5m
Twine - in for £2.5m, out for £3m

They'll make big money on Trafford too - in for £19m, out for £30m+.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Kompany may have spent a lot to fail miserably but Burnley made a profit on every player bought by Kompany who has subsequently been sold, which would suggest that they signed some good ones. Dyche signed hoofball merchants and played hoofball.

Signed in 2023
*Odobert - in for £10m, out for £25m
Berge - in for £15m, out for £20m
O'Shea - in for £7m, out for £12.5m
Al-Dakhil - in for £4m, out for £8m

Signed in 2022
Muric - in for £2.5m, out for £8m
Vitinho - in for £1m, out for £7m
Zaroury - in for £4m, out for £4.5m
Twine - in for £2.5m, out for £3m

They'll make big money on Trafford too - in for £19m, out for £30m+.

During and at the end of Dyche's last season, Burnley sold Wood for £25m, Cornet and McNeil for £20m each, Collins £15m, Pope £10m (what a ridiculously low price that was!).

Kompany's signings include Amdouni £15m (out on loan), Ramsey and Beyer £15m each (permanently injured), Mike Tresor (£15m, permanently absent though no-one knows why). That's £60m of players who have contributed next to nothing between them. It's not all one way.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Kompany may have spent a lot to fail miserably but Burnley made a profit on every player bought by Kompany who has subsequently been sold, which would suggest that they signed some good ones. Dyche signed hoofball merchants and played hoofball.

Signed in 2023
*Odobert - in for £10m, out for £25m
Berge - in for £15m, out for £20m
O'Shea - in for £7m, out for £12.5m
Al-Dakhil - in for £4m, out for £8m

Signed in 2022
Muric - in for £2.5m, out for £8m
Vitinho - in for £1m, out for £7m
Zaroury - in for £4m, out for £4.5m
Twine - in for £2.5m, out for £3m

They'll make big money on Trafford too - in for £19m, out for £30m+.

I think their transfer record was good under Dyche. They maintained a tiny wage bill, had a tiny net spend, and sold for big money (amongst others)

Ings, Trippier, Heaton, Andre Gray, Pope, Mcneil, Wood, Shackell, Vokes, Austin.

This whilst reaping consistent Premier League revenues (one season aside) and getting promoted with a tiny budget in the first place.. When the new owners came in Burnley had over 40 million in the bank and were debt free. Now they are laden with debt, have no money in the bank, and are servicing a huge wage bill. The pressure is well and truly on.

I do think it's a truism that promoted clubs are increasingly adopting a fundamentalist attitude to ultra possession based football so they can sell players once relegated. Only Burnley and Brentford have eschewed that. Brighton adopted it but have broken the algorithm and survived finding ridiculous players for relative peanuts.

 

[Balham]

During and at the end of Dyche's last season, Burnley sold Wood for £25m, Cornet and McNeil for £20m each, Collins £15m, Pope £10m (what a ridiculously low price that was!).

Kompany's signings include Amdouni £15m (out on loan), Ramsey and Beyer £15m each (permanently injured), Mike Tresor (£15m, permanently absent though no-one knows why). That's £60m of players who have contributed next to nothing between them. It's not all one way.

I have to confess I just don't like Sean Dyche.

 

[McGrath]

Kompany may have spent a lot to fail miserably but Burnley made a profit on every player bought by Kompany who has subsequently been sold, which would suggest that they signed some good ones. Dyche signed hoofball merchants and played hoofball.

Signed in 2023
*Odobert - in for £10m, out for £25m
Berge - in for £15m, out for £20m
O'Shea - in for £7m, out for £12.5m
Al-Dakhil - in for £4m, out for £8m

Signed in 2022
Muric - in for £2.5m, out for £8m
Vitinho - in for £1m, out for £7m
Zaroury - in for £4m, out for £4.5m
Twine - in for £2.5m, out for £3m

They'll make big money on Trafford too - in for £19m, out for £30m+.

I wonder if they actually made any money from the Berge sale

Wages + signing on fee + the percentage to United as sell-on fee. Surely wouldn't have left much profit

 

[McGrath]

I think their transfer record was good under Dyche. They maintained a tiny wage bill, had a tiny net spend, and sold for big money (amongst others)

Ings, Trippier, Heaton, Andre Gray, Pope, Mcneil, Wood, Shackell, Vokes, Austin.

This whilst reaping consistent Premier League revenues (one season aside) and getting promoted with a tiny budget in the first place.. When the new owners came in Burnley had over 40 million in the bank and were debt free. Now they are laden with debt, have no money in the bank, and are servicing a huge wage bill. The pressure is well and truly on.

I do think it's a truism that promoted clubs are increasingly adopting a fundamentalist attitude to ultra possession based football so they can sell players once relegated. Only Burnley and Brentford have eschewed that. Brighton adopted it but have broken the algorithm and survived finding ridiculous players for relative peanuts.

Both Brighton and Brentford have filthy rich owners that have ploughed hundreds of millions into their clubs. That's the reason they are both in the Premier League and able to maintain that status. People need to stop holding them up as good examples, along with Bournemouth and Fulham, because they aren't, their status is bought and paid for!

Burnley were different, what Dyche managed to do on the budget was amazing. He doesn't get enough kudos I think.

 

[Balham]

I wonder if they actually made any money from the Berge sale

Wages + signing on fee + the percentage to United as sell-on fee. Surely wouldn't have left much profit

It's unlikely they made much. Let's say they put him on £50k per week (as FM24 estimated) and that we had a 15% sell on as that seems to be about average for us.

Sold £20m
Bought £(15)m
Profit £5m
Sell on £(0.75)m
Wages £(2.5)m
Remaining profit £1.75m

Berge would have banked a signing on fee and may have been entitled to a cut of the transfer fee when he moved to Fulham which would quickly wipe out that profit.

 

[Lama]

Both Brighton and Brentford have filthy rich owners that have ploughed hundreds of millions into their clubs. That's the reason they are both in the Premier League and able to maintain that status. People need to stop holding them up as good examples...

Both owners have put money into the respective clubs, so you are correct in that sense.

However, I would suggest that the net spend for both clubs in the last 5 seasons is very reasonable, with an average of around £15m and £19m, per season, respectively. (Less than all three of our previous premier league seasons apparently.)

I think the reason why they are lauded as "good examples" is that they're incredibly sustainable models of recruitment, regardless of whether they've received initial investment from wealthy benefactors. Brighton are masters of finding talent in obscure places, and patiently developing them into good PL players. Brentford are great at seeing value missed by others, helped by statistical analysis.

If we have any hope of becoming a PL club, surviving the first couple of seasons, and ultimately establishing ourselves, we will need to emulate clubs like this, or come up with our own strategy to bridge the gap.

 

[LBA_Blade]

I wonder if they actually made any money from the Berge sale

Wages + signing on fee + the percentage to United as sell-on fee. Surely wouldn't have left much profit

It was £20 million sale plus up to £5 million with add ons, not sure what they entail, he has fairly consistent when he has been fit but did have a spell out injured late last year.

 

[Tickhill Blade]

I have to confess I just don't like Sean Dyche.

Can't knock his disc beard though

 

[McGrath]

Both owners have put money into the respective clubs, so you are correct in that sense.

However, I would suggest that the net spend for both clubs in the last 5 seasons is very reasonable, with an average of around £15m and £19m, per season, respectively. (Less than all three of our previous premier league seasons apparently.)

I think the reason why they are lauded as "good examples" is that they're incredibly sustainable models of recruitment, regardless of whether they've received initial investment from wealthy benefactors. Brighton are masters of finding talent in obscure places, and patiently developing them into good PL players. Brentford are great at seeing value missed by others, helped by statistical analysis.

If we have any hope of becoming a PL club, surviving the first couple of seasons, and ultimately establishing ourselves, we will need to emulate clubs like this, or come up with our own strategy to bridge the gap.

They are both good at finding talent in obscure places, but that has come at a hefty price. They've been shrewd, but your average club couldn't afford to do what they've done, they'll have spent a fortune on scouting networks and the like.

Anyway sod them. I don't want to be an imitation, I want to do it our way and better.

 

[Mousey]

They are both good at finding talent in obscure places, but that has come at a hefty price. They've been shrewd, but your average club couldn't afford to do what they've done, they'll have spent a fortune on scouting networks and the like.

Anyway sod them. I don't want to be an imitation, I want to do it our way and better.

I remember seeing a chart showing owner investment and Brighton had a larger amount than both Liverpool and Chelsea. I’m not sure on the exactly figures of timeline of it all but they have been backed substantially to achieve what they have done.

 

[Rodley]

I have to confess I just don't like Sean Dyche.

 

[NAnstonblade]

Let's just thrap the f*ckers! No mercy

 

[nopigfansintown]

Both Brighton and Brentford have filthy rich owners that have ploughed hundreds of millions into their clubs. That's the reason they are both in the Premier League and able to maintain that status. People need to stop holding them up as good examples, along with Bournemouth and Fulham, because they aren't, their status is bought and paid for!

Burnley were different, what Dyche managed to do on the budget was amazing. He doesn't get enough kudos I think.

They've spent a ton on the infrastructure side but I'm not convinced on the player side. Especially in the Premier League. It looks like sell to buy to me, the huge sales funding the reinvestment cycle. Both are legally cheating on the data side. External businesses are being used to scout players for small sums. Maybe we have a similar plan.

Edit: Brighton have made a £39 million profit in the last five years according to this: https://www.wearebrighton.com/newso...hown-by-brighton-five-year-net-spend-figures/

The league's figures here: https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city

 

[Lama]

They are both good at finding talent in obscure places, but that has come at a hefty price. They've been shrewd, but your average club couldn't afford to do what they've done, they'll have spent a fortune on scouting networks and the like.

Anyway sod them. I don't want to be an imitation, I want to do it our way and better.

Has it come at hefty price? Until the last couple of seasons neither club had spent much more on any individual player than we did for players such as Berge, Brewster, Archer or Ramsdale:

I would say both clubs have spent conservatively, relative to their status at any given time.

I would love to see the road map for “our way and better”, as our premier league recruitment has been very poor during our 3 seasons there recently: I’d be happy emulating either club to be honest, and we we can, we’ll stay up.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Has it come at hefty price? Until the last couple of seasons neither club had spent much more on any individual player than we did for players such as Berge, Brewster, Archer or Ramsdale:

I would say both clubs have spent conservatively, relative to their status at any given time.

I would love to see the road map for “our way and better”, as our premier league recruitment has been very poor during our 3 seasons there recently: I’d be happy emulating either club to be honest, and we we can, we’ll stay up.

We only made a profit on two purchases: Bogle/Lowe 3 million profit ( per Wilder). Whatever we made on Ramsdale ( bought for £12.61 million per accounts). It'd be interesting if we could factor wages into the debate.

 

[TJ blade]

I have to confess I just don't like Sean Dyche.

Boring negative football, & when they lost turned into a mardarse!

 

[Lama]

We only made a profit on two purchases: Bogle/Lowe 3 million profit ( per Wilder).

A good point that illustrates how poor our recruitment has been.

The sales of academy players has masked some quite serious issues in terms of transfers

 

[nopigfansintown]

A good point that illustrates how poor our recruitment has been.

The sales of academy players has masked some quite serious issues in terms of transfers

It's been a lot better in the Championship. In the Premier League it needs work. Last four Champ permanents we have prices for Anel 4m, Cooper, Burrows, Moore 7.5m.

 

[steve26272]

Has it come at hefty price? Until the last couple of seasons neither club had spent much more on any individual player than we did for players such as Berge, Brewster, Archer or Ramsdale:

I would say both clubs have spent conservatively, relative to their status at any given time.

I would love to see the road map for “our way and better”, as our premier league recruitment has been very poor during our 3 seasons there recently: I’d be happy emulating either club to be honest, and we we can, we’ll stay up.

They have bought unknown players for similar and bigger money, ours you mention were perceived as a safe bet, international and or EPL players

Caicedo was a huge gamble at that price, paid off but we don’t have that money to risk on potential

We’re trying this with the 2 South American lads, but at a 10th of the price

Can you imaging us spending €34m on a Cham forward from Watford

 

[Frank the tank]

They have bought unknown players for similar and bigger money, ours you mention were perceived as a safe bet, international and or EPL players

Caicedo was a huge gamble at that price, paid off but we don’t have that money to risk on potential

We’re trying this with the 2 South American lads, but at a 10th of the price

Can you imaging us spending €34m on a Cham forward from Watford

View attachment 207692View attachment 207693View attachment 207694

The Caicedo transfer wasn't a huge gamble
It was clever business by the selling club
They wanted to Sell to a lower mid ranking club with a high sell on as they were so confident he would command a larger fee
Most clubs on the continent knew of him but Brighton took the plunge

I only know this as I heard Andy brassel talking about

 

[steve26272]

The Caicedo transfer wasn't a huge gamble
It was clever business by the selling club
They wanted to Sell to a lower mid ranking club with a high sell on as they were so confident he would command a larger fee
Most clubs on the continent knew of him but Brighton took the plunge

I only know this as I heard Andy brassel talking about

Agreed not a gamble by selling club, they get guaranteed €28m plus a healthy sell on fee as you say

My gamble reference is to Brighton, who as you say ‘took the plunge’
Can you envisage us taking the plunge on an unknown to these shores for €28m?
Especially for a DM?

Brewster & Archer knew the league, had pedigree coming from top English teams, Berge was a international from a league comparable to ours

Agree Frank, fair play to them tho

 

[Frank the tank]

Agreed not a gamble by selling club, they get guaranteed €28m plus a healthy sell on fee as you say

My gamble reference is to Brighton, who as you say ‘took the plunge’
Can you envisage us taking the plunge on an unknown to these shores for €28m?
Especially for a DM?

Brewster & Archer knew the league, had pedigree coming from top English teams, Berge was a international from a league comparable to ours

Agree Frank, fair play to them tho

No I meant it wasn't a gamble by Brighton
Most clubs knew about Caicedo but didn't want to accept the large sell on

There are reasons we haven't spent that big on foreign players
If you really think about it
It's because we have been fucking broke for the last few years and couldn't pay the sky bill or afford fertiliser