Bristol City Manager Comments

[I should coco]

That said I was thinking during the game that only having VAR at certain grounds undermines the competition to an extent. Each game should be played under the same conditions from an officiating point of view.

I was thinking the same last night. It's like having a different pitch size or ball weight at different ties, and forensic pedant Mike Riley would never agree to that.

If we are going to accept different rules at different grounds, maybe spice it up a bit to cheer in the watching public during these Covid times.
Maybe the PGMOL put a big dressing up box and fill it with gloves. If an official wants to wear gloves, he has to accept the lucky dip.
Make it 50% super cool sports gloves, with the other half including clown gloves, boxing gloves, baseball mitts and those stupid screen scraper glove things that you see in the gutter, when some dozy tit has dropped it from their car door. Obviously none of these would be paired up, to add to the 'fun'.

 

[The Crab]

For what it’s worth I didn’t think it was deliberate. I think his hands were in the position you’d expect them to be when someone is stretching to block a shot. It’s a bit like when a player jumps for a header and his arms go up, they’re raised away from the body for balance.

Having said that, it was definitely a penalty and I’m not sure how anyone could argue differently, VAR or not.

That was my take on it. It's not like he punched it off the line, it was an unlucky handball. But that close to goal, if your going to give the pen then he's got to go, as harsh as it may seem.

 

[Chabuddy G]

Penalty, yes. What wasn't clear was whether it was deliberate. I wasn't convinved. Unless it's clear the player shouldn't be sent off.

That’s what I said in the shoutbox. I think the red was harsh. Where’s his arm supposed to go?

 

[The Crab]

That’s what I said in the shoutbox. I think the red was harsh. Where’s his arm supposed to go?

Should be a little play in the law. If he Michael Jordans it off the line then fair enough, but it was unlucky rather than premeditated in my view

 

[originaltrueblade]

The lad knew he’d cheated grinning all over his face....that was soon wiped off with the penalty and then almost to tears with the red card...he was cheating and he got caught

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I think he is wrong, but we should be fair and recognise that his reaction is human. Whatever any of us thinks of VAR in theory, I think every football fan/professional thinks inwardly ‘I hate VAR’ when a decision goes against us and ‘Thank God for VAR’ when a decision goes for us. And before long we return to our original view on the system, for or against. And if we don’t like the (current) VAR system because it is killing the emotional immediacy of the game, let’s not be too hard on people reacting emotionally.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The lad knew he’d cheated grinning all over his face....that was soon wiped off with the penalty and then almost to tears with the red card...he was cheating and he got caught

It was like Jim Montgomery’s save in the Cup Final against Leeds. I would have loved to have been in my seat on the Kop to admire it ... and then complain very loudly.

 

[Rochdaleblade]

It looked to me like he slapped the ball away. Penalty and red card all day for me. The ball was already past the keeper, so at the very least a goal was prevented by having the hands in an unnatural position. Having said that, the one that wasn't given against Plymouth(?) was far more blatant.

 

[Yogi]

Is it a pen? Yes. Should it have been a red card? Yes. Should games in the same competition be played under different conditions and rules? No.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Is it a pen? Yes. Should it have been a red card? Yes. Should games in the same competition be played under different conditions and rules? No.

100%.

I don’t see how it’s right to have it at some games and not be others. If you want fairness to be applied. Especially as it’s not (to my knowledge) like you need additional tech like goal line technology to apply it. Just the willingness to do so?

That said VAR didn’t help us with ampadu’s handball shot in the last round so you still need to rely on the officials to use it correctly.

Also love how many people on this thread reckon they knew it was handball in the initial viewing. No way that’s spotted without VAR slowing it down

 

[PokerBlade]

He’s not got a leg to stand on with the complaint. Being caught out on a deliberate handball on the line isn’t in the same league as a fractional offside.

That said I was thinking during the game that only having VAR at certain grounds undermines the competition to an extent. Each game should be played under the same conditions from an officiating point of view.

Does anyone know what the protocol is now for these incidents ? The handball was checked several times by VAR, once the handball was seen to be fairly blatant it then has to go back to the ref to watch again. Surely this bit can be streamlined to some extent?

The referee checks the monitor because last season everyone complained that they didn't and reckoned it would somehow be an improvement. It appears to have made no difference other than to make the process even longer. Why people thought it would be different is still a mystery to me.

 

[sitwell]

Reckons that the goal was unfair as it wouldn't be given at their place due to VAR not being present;

Holden told BBC Sport: "To lose that way to a VAR penalty is disappointing. If it would have been played at Ashton Gate it wouldn't have been given.

"I don't know how you can have it at one and not the other. I'm not a VAR fan - I think it's killing the game. It's not the game of football I grew up loving.

"It's a hugely debatable decision. The boys defended for their lives and once the referee goes to the screen he will never change his mind, so it's disappointing."

^ I'm afraid that is nonsense, regardless of whether VAR intervened that handball was deliberate and cost us a certain goal. Incidents like this are why VAR was brought in. His comments about it being played at Ashton Gate, while correct it wouldn't have been awarded, it would have been totally unjust and essentially they would have gotten away with cheating.

Imagine if he had been subject to our shitty sticks with Shelvey ,Ghost goal , Luizs pull back ,Lundstrams toenail etc etc. If we go down I could cope with that not being given last night.
Fuck VAR and Mike Riley.

 

[PokerBlade]

Reckons that the goal was unfair as it wouldn't be given at their place due to VAR not being present;

Holden told BBC Sport: "To lose that way to a VAR penalty is disappointing. If it would have been played at Ashton Gate it wouldn't have been given.

"I don't know how you can have it at one and not the other. I'm not a VAR fan - I think it's killing the game. It's not the game of football I grew up loving.

"It's a hugely debatable decision. The boys defended for their lives and once the referee goes to the screen he will never change his mind, so it's disappointing."

^ I'm afraid that is nonsense, regardless of whether VAR intervened that handball was deliberate and cost us a certain goal. Incidents like this are why VAR was brought in. His comments about it being played at Ashton Gate, while correct it wouldn't have been awarded, it would have been totally unjust and essentially they would have gotten away with cheating.

It's true that it was a correct decision with respect to the rules, but I also agree with him that VAR has made the game worse. It was exactly the kind of incident VAR was brought in for. Clear decision, hard for the officials to catch in real time, rules enforced properly. On the other hand, I still hate VAR.

One of the many arguments I was given (that I never bought into) in favour of it was that it would redress some of the balance in favour of the smaller clubs. But as I've said before, moments like last night are exactly the type of lucky escape that the weaker team needs now and then in order to pull off a result. Okay, last night we can say justice was done with the decision, but it's also an example of how VAR will benefit the bigger clubs who can push small edges on offsides, who'll have more penalty shouts with their box play, and so on. Even just knowing when to play on and when not to could be a small edge.

Then there's the daftness that a team like Bristol, already faced with the task of going away from home to a higher division side, faces a different ruleset to what they usually play under. And you can make the argument the other way too, that if we go away to Bristol we lose out on something we're used to playing with. Either way it seems to go against the general spirit of sport that different professional clubs in the same competition are playing under different rules.

There's also my irritation that after the handball you play a couple of minutes of football that might count for nothing followed by a delay while we make the decision.

I can't argue that it wasn't a red card offence, or that it shouldn't have been a penalty, but I can fully understand the frustration their manager has with the current state of the game. VAR makes the game worse to watch as far I'm concerned.

 

[gordoncharles]

The referee checks the monitor because last season everyone complained that they didn't and reckoned it would somehow be an improvement. It appears to have made no difference other than to make the process even longer. Why people thought it would be different is still a mystery to me.

Having watched a lot of Spanish football that was highly predictable. Actually it was 100% predictable.

The only way to possibly improve the fiasco of VAR is to get the actual match referee to initiate it, like they do in rugby.

As for it being used last night I don't see what the fuss is all about? You don't know before the game if VAR will work for you or against you, and seeing as it was coaches and pundits who wanted this shitshow (not fans) anyone who comes out the wrong side of it is getting what's coming to them as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

VAR is there to enable fairness by ensuring correct decisions. If it is available then use it. It is the same for both teams whether it is available or not.

 

[Deadbat]

It is ridiculous having it some grounds and not others. I get the lower league grounds do not have it so just do not have it for the FA Cup so it is fair.

Going away from it not being a level playing ground though then to be honest the type of decision given last night is why VAR was brought in as it was hard to spot in real time.

Not sure how anyone can disagree with the penalty and red card - he 'saves' a certain goal. Those saying he did not mean it? Come on. His half laugh/grin as he went off summed it up - he knew exactly what he was doing!

Still hate VAR and agree with Holden on that.

 

[Deadbat]

VAR is there to enable fairness by ensuring correct decisions. If it is available then use it. It is the same for both teams whether it is available or not.

But you could have had that decision at Ashton Gate or if it went to a replay and it would not have been given? It is literally playing different rules depending on who is at home or where the game is?

I think it is bizarre to have it at some ground and not others for the same competition.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

But you could have had that decision at Ashton Gate or if it went to a replay and it would not have been given? It is literally playing different rules depending on who is at home or where the game is?

I think it is bizarre to have it at some ground and not others for the same competition.

No, the rules are the same, and the conditions are the same for both teams.

 

[Geordie Blade]

What gets my goat (and we are as bad as anyone for this), is teams who think that they are "hard done to" by VAR. Surely if VAR decisions are going against you, it means that the original - wrong - decision was going for you. This is especially true for offside, which is purely mechanical. If VAR rules out a goal for offside, it implies that the referees assistant must have given a wrong decision in your favour in the first place. Therefore, the cries of "the game is bent" etc. are absolutely nonsense.

We (SUFC) have moaned for years that refs and linos have favoured the big clubs, giving marginal decisions against us. It seems (based on last year particularly), that the opposite is true.

I accept that it's slightly different for the subjective cases like fouls in the build up to a goal or fouls in the area. In those cases, VAR really should stick to 'clear and obvious'. On that same note, anyone who says "That would never be given against Manchester United at Old Trafford" needs to remember our last game there. I'm not saying those decisions were wrong but, if there really is a conspiracy to help Man U in these things, they seem to have forgotten it in that game.

 

[Deadbat]

No, the rules are the same, and the conditions are the same for both teams.

But they are not for the competition. It's like having them in half the game in the Premier League. I understand for an individual game bit a tie that cost last say 180 minutes (if goes to a replay) can literally have different rules one part of the tie to the next.

I just think for the integrity of the competition it is odd having some games and not others.

 

[Harrisblade]

I agree 100%

Shouldn't be allowed in the cups until only Premier league teams are left

GeordieBlade has it right in post #10.
Cup games are a one-off and in that particular game both sides have the advantage/disadvantage of VAR being used.

 

[Harrisblade]

But they are not for the competition. It's like having them in half the game in the Premier League. I understand for an individual game bit a tie that cost last say 180 minutes (if goes to a replay) can literally have different rules one part of the tie to the next.

I just think for the integrity of the competition it is odd having some games and not others.

There aren't any replays.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

But they are not for the competition. It's like having them in half the game in the Premier League. I understand for an individual game bit a tie that cost last say 180 minutes (if goes to a replay) can literally have different rules one part of the tie to the next.

I just think for the integrity of the competition it is odd having some games and not others.

What rules are different ? Rules and conditions for both teams are the same. If it is possible to ensure correct decisions with more certainty by using VAR, then use it.

 

[The Crab]

It is ridiculous having it some grounds and not others. I get the lower league grounds do not have it so just do not have it for the FA Cup so it is fair.

Going away from it not being a level playing ground though then to be honest the type of decision given last night is why VAR was brought in as it was hard to spot in real time.

Not sure how anyone can disagree with the penalty and red card - he 'saves' a certain goal. Those saying he did not mean it? Come on. His half laugh/grin as he went off summed it up - he knew exactly what he was doing!

Still hate VAR and agree with Holden on that.

I thought the laugh / grin was just his normal gormless expression. He looked like he'd find it taxing to hand you a basket when you go to a Pick your Own Strawberries place....

 

[Killamarshblades]

But they are not for the competition. It's like having them in half the game in the Premier League. I understand for an individual game bit a tie that cost last say 180 minutes (if goes to a replay) can literally have different rules one part of the tie to the next.

I just think for the integrity of the competition it is odd having some games and not others.

The same goes for goal line technology. Not sure but i think only Prem and Champ clubs have it in place, so the moment those teams are mixed with teams that dont have it further dilutes integrity of the competition.

Being devils advocate with grounds having technology in place though, it seems foolish not to use the resources available. For example last night say the follow up to the handball had trickled over the line before being cleared and officials hadnt noticed and we werent using technology available we'd be livid about it! Could have been denied a pen and sending off and / or a goal in the space of 5 seconds, through no fault of the officials really. Yep it slowed the game down having the check but the right decisions were made. Seems silly not to utilise that resource just because not all teams in the competition have it (and never will)

 

[PokerBlade]

Having watched a lot of Spanish football that was highly predictable. Actually it was 100% predictable.

The only way to possibly improve the fiasco of VAR is to get the actual match referee to initiate it, like they do in rugby.

As for it being used last night I don't see what the fuss is all about? You don't know before the game if VAR will work for you or against you, and seeing as it was coaches and pundits who wanted this shitshow (not fans) anyone who comes out the wrong side of it is getting what's coming to them as far as I'm concerned.

Most of my antagonism toward VAR is just that football is a fast-paced game with a lot of marginal, often subjective, decisions. I don't want the game slowed down any more than it is when timewasting and play-acting is one of the worst parts of the game. Then there's the issue that so many of the big decisions in football are of the type where we watch it back twenty times in super slow-motion and still argue about whether it was deliberate, whether that's arm or shoulder, when exactly the ball was played, which part of him is offside, was that reckless etc. Last night was a good example of an easier decision, but if you look at the red card for Southampton a week ago then the VAR team looked at it, the ref looked at it on the monitor, and then a couple of days later the decision is rescinded. Meanwhile Solskjaer said the PGMOL told him that both goal decisions in our game against were wrong (who knows if he's honest, but there's no clarity for fans).

Overall, we're still baffled by some of the decisions missed or not overturned, we've just added bigger delays and confusion to the game. I don't think the ref requesting VAR would make a difference to solving any of the problems I've mentioned. All we'd do is change the squabbling to "Why didn't he refer to VAR?" instead of "How did they miss that?" with no promise of a better game to watch.

 

[robbiez666]

That would be true if it was a league. It could be argued that VAR leads to more (or fewer?) goals or red cards, so it might advantage one team but not another over the course of a season.

However, in a cup, that argument is irrelevant. It benefits (or disadvantages) both teams equally, and doesn’t carry and benefit forward to the next round.

This is why the allow this rule for cups, but not league (for example, even though relegated teams have the facilities for VAR, it couldn’t be used in the Championship).

The thing is, players in the Premier League will play a different way to players in the football league because of VAR. It becomes automatic. I guarantee Mawson would have got his hand out the way if that was a PL game because he knows he wouldn't get away with it. It gives PL players an advantage. It might be a small advantage, but it's an advantage, and it's surely not in the spirit of the FA Cup?

 

[Stu_Blade]

Having watched a lot of Spanish football that was highly predictable. Actually it was 100% predictable.

The only way to possibly improve the fiasco of VAR is to get the actual match referee to initiate it, like they do in rugby.

As for it being used last night I don't see what the fuss is all about? You don't know before the game if VAR will work for you or against you, and seeing as it was coaches and pundits who wanted this shitshow (not fans) anyone who comes out the wrong side of it is getting what's coming to them as far as I'm concerned.

Depending on which code in Rugby. With Rugby league they will send it up as try with a yes or no response indicating what they think then its up to the video referee to prove them wrong if there isn't enough evidence then original decision stands. I suppose in that sense it could cut down the number of referrals potentially but we wouldn't have got the penalty last night as the referee of assistant didn't see it in real time.

 

[gordoncharles]

Depending on which code in Rugby. With Rugby league they will send it up as try with a yes or no response indicating what they think then its up to the video referee to prove them wrong if there isn't enough evidence then original decision stands. I suppose in that sense it could cut down the number of referrals potentially but we wouldn't have got the penalty last night as the referee of assistant didn't see it in real time.

I'd sooner have "wrong" decisions than the current mess, Stu.

It rules mostly on subjective matters and sure, the officials didn't see it last night, but neither did most of the players judging by the lack of appealing that went on. So it can hardly be considered blatant.

 

[Stu_Blade]

I'd sooner have "wrong" decisions than the current mess, Stu.

It rules mostly on subjective matters and sure, the officials didn't see it last night, but neither did most of the players judging by the lack of appealing that went on. So it can hardly be considered blatant.

Totally agreed if I am honest. It gives it that human element quirk rather than being I-Robot if Morgan was playing now he be playing 5 games a season as be sent off by VAR referrals!