Brentford model

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

RWE

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
184
Reaction score
425
Always look at Brentford (as probably most fans do) and think they have the perfect scouting/business model in terms of bringing lower league/abroad players in for really cheap, getting the best out of them and selling them on for profit e.g. Watkins, Benhrama, and no doubt Toney will be next. Obviously they’ve not been promoted but it will inevitably happen because there always knocking at the door. Can anyone explain why it wouldn’t be possible for a club like us (especially now we have Premier League money and parachute payments next season) to set up a scouting system/recruitment style like this? I understand we probably have scouts abroad to track players (Berge, Retsos etc) but when you think of the money spent on the English signings that we’ve made over the past 2 years you start to get shafted for 20 million pound players which are championship standard at best. And won’t sell for what we paid.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Always look at Brentford (as probably most fans do) and think they have the perfect scouting/business model in terms of bringing lower league/abroad players in for really cheap, getting the best out of them and selling them on for profit e.g. Watkins, Benhrama, and no doubt Toney will be next. Obviously they’ve not been promoted but it will inevitably happen because there always knocking at the door. Can anyone explain why it wouldn’t be possible for a club like us (especially now we have Premier League money and parachute payments next season) to set up a scouting system/recruitment style like this? I understand we probably have scouts abroad to track players (Berge, Retsos etc) but when you think of the money spent on the English signings that we’ve made over the past 2 years you start to get shafted for 20 million pound players which are championship standard at best. And won’t sell for what we paid.
It is possible to set up a similar system but it takes time Brentford are almost a decade in to using their particular model. I think Barnsley are looking at doing something similar but this season is the first one it’s started to come to fruition. Also it requires a continental head coach model rather than a traditional British manager run system so it wouldn’t be possible with the current coaching staff. Therefore if we were to commit to something like that we’d probably have to endure some significant short to medium term pain before it started to show signs of success.
 

RWE

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
184
Reaction score
425
It is possible to set up a similar system but it takes time Brentford are almost a decade in to using their particular model. I think Barnsley are looking at doing something similar but this season is the first one it’s started to come to fruition. Also I requires a continental head coach model rather than a traditional British manager run system so it wouldn’t be possible with the current coaching staff. Therefore if we were to commit to something like that we’d probably have to endure some significant short to medium term pain before it started to show signs of success.
Yeah I think Barnsley are doing a fantastic job with it also, and your probably right with the fact you have to commit. Love the idea of it personally, always get pissed off when we don’t move players on at the right time and get maximum money, could’ve sold Lundstram last season for decent money. Imagine if Brooks had that season for Brentford they wouldn’t have sold him for anything less than 20 million. And it baffles me that I remember the interview with CW where he spoke about long, medium, and short term signings and I can’t really think of any “long” term signings that we’ve made since he’s been here. He knows that there is some real gems in lower league that we could’ve snapped up last summer which didn’t have to be starters (and had a larger squad with it as well).
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Yeah I think Barnsley are doing a fantastic job with it also, and your probably right with the fact you have to commit. Love the idea of it personally, always get pissed off when we don’t move players on at the right time and get maximum money, could’ve sold Lundstram last season for decent money. Imagine if Brooks had that season for Brentford they wouldn’t have sold him for anything less than 20 million. And it baffles me that I remember the interview with CW where he spoke about long, medium, and short term signings and I can’t really think of any “long” term signings that we’ve made since he’s been here. He knows that there is some real gems in lower league that we could’ve snapped up last summer which didn’t have to be starters (and had a larger squad with it as well).
So I think the issue with us operating any kind of similar model before now is that you need very wealthy owners to underwrite the clubs losses until such a time as you can sell an asset for peak value. Barnsley and Brentford have very wealthy owners on the other hand up until the last two years we’ve been selling to survive not to maximise value. If we didn’t have to do it to survive no way we sell Brooks at that price point or ramsdale for 1 million, DCL for 1 million, Adams for 1 million or Maguire for 3.

In terms of wilder and long term signings O’Connell was his first one I’d argue and then after that he probably hasn’t done it until this year with Brewster, bogle and ramsdale.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RWE

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Brentford model is goosed isn’t it, will they get work permits now based on the EU deal?
Not as easily but they started with domestic players and their data driven model will find other opportunities to exploit in terms of fees compared to ability.
 

RWE

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
184
Reaction score
425
So I think the issue with us operating any kind of similar model before now is that you need very wealthy owners to underwrite the clubs losses until such a time as you can sell an asset for peak value. Barnsley and Brentford have very wealthy owners on the other hand up until the last two years we’ve been selling to survive not to maximise value. If we didn’t have to do it to survive no way we sell Brooks at that price point or ramsdale for 1 million, DCL for 1 million, Adams for 1 million or Maguire for 3.

In terms of wilder and long term signings O’Connell was his first one I’d argue and then after that he probably hasn’t done it until this year with Brewster, bogle and ramsdale.
Yeah that’s a good point never saw it like that to be fair. For me I see those signings as like a medium term where they were brought as a potential squad filler to start with but then got into the squad. I always thought a proper long term signing would be like when Everton bought DCL and Lookman when he was at Charlton I believe? And not putting pressure on them to make the starting 11 or 18 for a year or so and slowly develop them into starters.

edit: obviously I know it’s not simple like playing fifa or football manager, every signing is a risk ha!
 

nopigfansintown

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
5,034
Reaction score
7,754
The Brentford model is dependent on the owners background and primary business interests. Completely unfeasible for "normal" clubs. Every fan of every club from the bottom ten of the prem downwards is calling for the Brentford model.In a way it's legalised financial doping as the money they put into it must be astronomical. It's primary purpose is not scouting players though.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Yeah that’s a good point never saw it like that to be fair. For me I see those signings as like a medium term where they were brought as a potential squad filler to start with but then got into the squad. I always thought a proper long term signing would be like when Everton bought DCL and Lookman when he was at Charlton I believe? And not putting pressure on them to make the starting 11 or 18 for a year or so and slowly develop them into starters.
I just don’t think we’re established enough at this level to make those kinds of signings yet with still so much surgery needed to the first 11 that’s where our funds go. Our equivalent of those types of deals is picking up lads released from top academies and international players from “soccer schools” like the Canadian lad this summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RWE

RWE

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
184
Reaction score
425
I just don’t think we’re established enough at this level to make those kinds of signings yet with still so much surgery needed to the first 11 that’s where our funds go. Our equivalent of those types of deals is picking up lads released from top academies and international players from “soccer schools” like the Canadian lad this summer.
The Brentford model is dependent on the owners background and primary business interests. Completely unfeasible for "normal" clubs. Every fan of every club from the bottom ten of the prem downwards is calling for the Brentford model.In a way it's legalised financial doping as the money they put into it must be astronomical. It's primary purpose is not scouting players though.
Thats fairs, I and a lot of fans probably think it’s easier than it is. Didn’t fully understand why it would be so hard to do but cheers chaps.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Thats fairs, I and a lot of fans probably think it’s easier than it is. Didn’t fully understand why it would be so hard to do but cheers chaps.
It’s understandable it’s a very attractive model in terms of the type of players you can recruit and the success rate but it’s just very hard to implement.
 

nopigfansintown

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Messages
5,034
Reaction score
7,754
What Brentford's model does show is that analytics are key to recruitment. Mathew Bentham is a big cheese in the online sports gambling industry and essentially uses the analytics technology from his business to do a far more in depth analysis of the global player pool than other clubs can manage/afford.
Maybe there's an argument that clubs would be better off investing in similar technologies than foreign clubs, scouts, academies, players or other infrastructure.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
What Brentford's model does show is that analytics are key to recruitment. Mathew Bentham is a big cheese in the online sports gambling industry and essentially uses the analytics technology from his business to do a far more in depth analysis of the global player pool than other clubs can manage/afford.
Maybe there's an argument that clubs would be better off investing in similar technologies than foreign clubs, scouts, academies, players or other infrastructure.
Which ever mega club goes in all in for it first will have a serious period of dominance
 

bypassblade

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Messages
3,109
Reaction score
3,900
Brentford have this knack of turning out top rated strikers, Maupay, Watkins and Toney will go to PL if Brentford don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RWE

RWE

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
184
Reaction score
425
Brentford have this knack of turning out top rated strikers, Maupay, Watkins and Toney will go to PL if Brentford don't.
Completely forgot about Maupay, maybe it would just be better to sign whoever Brentford try and get after they sell Toney haha.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
Completely forgot about Maupay, maybe it would just be better to sign whoever Brentford try and get after they sell Toney haha.
We did this summer with balogun Brentford went for him last jan then we went for him in the summer unfortunately neither of us succeeded.
 

JJBlade

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
3,197
Reaction score
4,363
Our PL model, as mentioned b4 times many, would have been better served by adopting a “gazump” every player Brentford want.

Significantly better as it turns out.

UTB

We'd have to know who they were going for, what position they played and what type of player they were.

Then we could gazump Brentford for all the grafting workhorses on cheap wages and let Brentford have the stylish quality on cheap wages plus an extra quid or two.
 

DronnieBlade

“I’ve been Wank”
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
7,704
Reaction score
9,447
Location
Norton
We'd have to know who they were going for, what position they played and what type of player they were.

Then we could gazump Brentford for all the grafting workhorses on cheap wages and let Brentford have the stylish quality on cheap wages plus an extra quid or two.
Quick note on this.

Players, and their agents have mouths, often big ones 😀

On top of which, money talks !!!

UTB
 

Rodley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
17,142
Reaction score
29,873
Location
North-West Leodis
Not as easily but they started with domestic players and their data driven model will find other opportunities to exploit in terms of fees compared to ability.

It’s a limited pool in the U.K. I think Brentford will have to rethink what they do.

Ironically our Buy British / Anti-Do Gooder approach is likely to be the way to go. We need to push on with upgrading the Academy as soon as we can.
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
It’s a limited pool in the U.K. I think Brentford will have to rethink what they do.

Ironically our Buy British / Anti-Do Gooder approach is likely to be the way to go. We need to push on with upgrading the Academy as soon as we can.
Yes academy’s should in theory take on greater significance. Brentford haven’t been sleeping on that front either though their model would also seem quite adapt at find undervalued youth prospects released by top clubs and then giving them a chance to develop.
 

Rodley

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
17,142
Reaction score
29,873
Location
North-West Leodis
Yes academy’s should in theory take on greater significance. Brentford haven’t been sleeping on that front either though their model would also seem quite adapt at find undervalued youth prospects released by top clubs and then giving them a chance to develop.

That’s a good point and I’m not sleeping on the achievements of the Brentford owner, he’s transformed a mediocre L1 / L2 club into a solid Chanpionship outfit with an identity, new stadium and a really progressive approach off the pitch. 👍
 

Yogi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
4,151
Reaction score
5,824
That’s a good point and I’m not sleeping on the achievements of the Brentford owner, he’s transformed a mediocre L1 / L2 club into a solid Chanpionship outfit with an identity, new stadium and a really progressive approach off the pitch. 👍
It will be very interesting watch how football adapts over the next few years it won’t change things at the top but the championship could be reset to 10 or 20 years ago in terms of the amount of foreign players in the league.
 

WincobankBlade

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
4,375
Reaction score
4,037
It’s a limited pool in the U.K. I think Brentford will have to rethink what they do.

Ironically our Buy British / Anti-Do Gooder approach is likely to be the way to go. We need to push on with upgrading the Academy as soon as we can.

Can't we start importing from the Commonwealth again now like the good old do-badder days?
 

BanderSerge

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2020
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
1,297
Yeah I think Barnsley are doing a fantastic job with it also, and your probably right with the fact you have to commit. Love the idea of it personally, always get pissed off when we don’t move players on at the right time and get maximum money, could’ve sold Lundstram last season for decent money. Imagine if Brooks had that season for Brentford they wouldn’t have sold him for anything less than 20 million. And it baffles me that I remember the interview with CW where he spoke about long, medium, and short term signings and I can’t really think of any “long” term signings that we’ve made since he’s been here. He knows that there is some real gems in lower league that we could’ve snapped up last summer which didn’t have to be starters (and had a larger squad with it as well).
The season Brooks started 8 games?
 

blade_ben

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
411
Reaction score
501
Need to appoint a director of football first. Van Winckel or someone else with links and knowledge of European leagues
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Top Bottom