Brentford model

[Blade.com]

We must recruit based on number of long balls played and least amount of dribbles.

Dribbles. That's a word you never hear anymore. Bit like never seeing white dog sxxt anymore.
A player these days is gauged on; speed; touch; sprints; distance traveled; diving abilities and whoever Talksport are plugging. Never dribbling ; can't have that.

 

[guancheblade]

It is possible to set up a similar system but it takes time Brentford are almost a decade in to using their particular model. I think Barnsley are looking at doing something similar but this season is the first one it’s started to come to fruition. Also it requires a continental head coach model rather than a traditional British manager run system so it wouldn’t be possible with the current coaching staff. Therefore if we were to commit to something like that we’d probably have to endure some significant short to medium term pain before it started to show signs of success.

The counter to that is Brentford never had the benefit of PL money and subsequent parachute payments. So we should be able to accelerate the rate of return on their recruitment model.

But with them its not just recruitment its a playing strategy too they've had regardless of who the head coach is.

 

[Badger Blade]

We already have a "statistic-based model" as Wilder and Bettis talked about last year. It's a bit of a myth that our recruitment is simply based on Chris Wilder's opinion.

The big issue with a stats-based system (as a former sports statistican and now doing similar in retail) is that stats and data are usually only as good as the brief someone receives, the person using the data to create a narrative and the level of understanding of the person who is being told that narrative. I was once asked by a rugby referee what the average number of penalties per game were - he had what was fairly basic information to hand already but had no idea how to basically divide two numbers.

I've had questions like "who is the best player in league x?" or "why is category y performing so badly in my retailer" and there are a number of variables that contribute in varying degrees; there are a number of correct answers if you have a good enough argument behind them but none of which necessarily solve the problem you're trying to get to.

Stats and data can often be construed to suit an agenda rather than being an objective use of information and unless we have someone objective to go and use this data to find players and bring them in, it'll never work in a fully Brentford-style fashion for us unless a DoF or someone similar brings the players in for a head coach.

It'd be a big culture change for the club and realistically, could we ever see this happen, probably not unless Wilder left and we gambled on some random foreigners as our next management team.

 

[blades14]

Because Wilder doesn't like signing or playing foreign players.

NEXT

Its concerning that most of the problems the club have are down to wilder not willing to adapt

 

[Yogi]

The counter to that is Brentford never had the benefit of PL money and subsequent parachute payments. So we should be able to accelerate the rate of return on their recruitment model.

But with them its not just recruitment its a playing strategy too they've had regardless of who the head coach is.

Potentially but Brentford’s owner is wealthier than ours so the prem money probably evens us out.

yeah I agree that’s why it takes a continental head coach type of ethos rather than a British manager led system. It means that regardless of coach you’re recruiting for the same style and system over a period of a decade so players shouldn’t lose value by being played out of position.

 

[Sheffsteel]

These kinds of threads make me laugh.

Last year we were one of the best run clubs..with the best scouting system in the country.
What were the saying “the future is bright, the future is red and white”
Wilder, The Prince and Paul Mitchell have received loads of plaudits over the past 3 years.

Then 10 months later they are all suddenly crap ha ha....you couldn’t make it up.
The reason we‘re struggling is a combination of things

little preparation in tactics and team style caused by covid...so we’re no longer as well drilled playing as a team.
little preparation regards fitness....we are a team that rely on fitness more than others.
Injury to arguably our most important player...Jack O’Connell.
loss of desire...we were brilliant last season and some players earned their big pay increase....many players have lost their edge.
No fans...it effects players in different ways...McBurnie was interviewed on Talk Sport before the season started and he said he thrives off criticism/ comments from a crowd and he thinks he plays better with a crowd.
Confidence issues....a shockingly bad start ensured confidence drained out of the whole club.

The answer is to accept the above....maybe we aren’t as bad as we think.....and prepare with inner confidence for next season.
We think McBurnie and Brewster are crap but those 2 have proven themselves as being top performers at Championship level.
Egan and O’Connell are too good for the Championship....although we’re down...I wouldn’t write us off yet....you only need to look at how Norwich have done.

A big positive regards our recruitment is buying young players....
you would expect McBurnie and Brewster to be much better players than the last time they were in the Championship.

 

[Yogi]

These kinds of threads make me laugh.

Last year we were one of the best run clubs..with the best scouting system in the country.
What were the saying “the future is bright, the future is red and white”
Wilder, The Prince and Paul Mitchell have received loads of plaudits over the past 3 years.

Then 10 months later they are all suddenly crap ha ha....you couldn’t make it up.
The reason we‘re struggling is a combination of things

little preparation in tactics and team style caused by covid...so we’re no longer as well drilled playing as a team.
little preparation regards fitness....we are a team that rely on fitness more than others.
Injury to arguably our most important player...Jack O’Connell.
loss of desire...we were brilliant last season and some players earned their big pay increase....many players have lost their edge.
No fans...it effects players in different ways...McBurnie was interviewed on Talk Sport before the season started and he said he thrives off criticism/ comments from a crowd and he thinks he plays better with a crowd.
Confidence issues....a shockingly bad start ensured confidence drained out of the whole club.

The answer is to accept the above....maybe we aren’t as bad as we think.....and prepare with inner confidence for next season.
We think McBurnie and Brewster are crap but those 2 have proven themselves as being top performers at Championship level.
Egan and O’Connell are too good for the Championship....although we’re down...I wouldn’t write us off yet....you only need to look at how Norwich have done.

A big positive regards our recruitment is buying young players....
you would expect McBurnie and Brewster to be much better players than the last time they were in the Championship.

I agree with a lot of what you say I think our record for recruiting players domestically stands up as one of the best for players in our price range our hit rate is very good.

I think the attraction with the Brentford model for fans of other clubs not just united is their hit rate in foreign markets which is very hard to do and is the one stand out flaw in our recruitment. For what it’s worth I’d expect that to improve in the coming years but it won’t happen overnight.

 

[Bucksblade]

Always look at Brentford (as probably most fans do) and think they have the perfect scouting/business model in terms of bringing lower league/abroad players in for really cheap, getting the best out of them and selling them on for profit e.g. Watkins, Benhrama, and no doubt Toney will be next. Obviously they’ve not been promoted but it will inevitably happen because there always knocking at the door. Can anyone explain why it wouldn’t be possible for a club like us (especially now we have Premier League money and parachute payments next season) to set up a scouting system/recruitment style like this? I understand we probably have scouts abroad to track players (Berge, Retsos etc) but when you think of the money spent on the English signings that we’ve made over the past 2 years you start to get shafted for 20 million pound players which are championship standard at best. And won’t sell for what we paid.

And like it or not London is a much biigger pond to fish in or attract players from abroad. Unless of course they are enlightened and realise quality of life is far better in Sheffield (or at lease parts of city and surrounding)

 

[ancientblade]

These kinds of threads make me laugh.

Last year we were one of the best run clubs..with the best scouting system in the country.
What were the saying “the future is bright, the future is red and white”
Wilder, The Prince and Paul Mitchell have received loads of plaudits over the past 3 years.

Then 10 months later they are all suddenly crap ha ha....you couldn’t make it up.
The reason we‘re struggling is a combination of things

little preparation in tactics and team style caused by covid...so we’re no longer as well drilled playing as a team.
little preparation regards fitness....we are a team that rely on fitness more than others.
Injury to arguably our most important player...Jack O’Connell.
loss of desire...we were brilliant last season and some players earned their big pay increase....many players have lost their edge.
No fans...it effects players in different ways...McBurnie was interviewed on Talk Sport before the season started and he said he thrives off criticism/ comments from a crowd and he thinks he plays better with a crowd.
Confidence issues....a shockingly bad start ensured confidence drained out of the whole club.

The answer is to accept the above....maybe we aren’t as bad as we think.....and prepare with inner confidence for next season.
We think McBurnie and Brewster are crap but those 2 have proven themselves as being top performers at Championship level.
Egan and O’Connell are too good for the Championship....although we’re down...I wouldn’t write us off yet....you only need to look at how Norwich have done.

A big positive regards our recruitment is buying young players....
you would expect McBurnie and Brewster to be much better players than the last time they were in the Championship.

yes you would but they will still need the service from midfield and thats been our downfall this season

 

[BanderSerge]

Fuck me... talk about nit picking. Just asking a genuine question. They probably would’ve sold him for that with the amount of hype he had at the time too.

That’s not nit picking where I come from. They’re the words you wrote!

 

[BanderSerge]

brentford have made untold millions from clever scouting and selling for a profit. We are far too unimaginative in our approach and it’s cost us over the last 18months.

we’ve spend millions and millions. We could afford to put the infrastructure of some computers and some analysts which is all Brentford have done really if we were that way inclined.

And they still can’t get to the premier league!

 

[Rudders]

Another model we could have chosen that wouldn't have cost us any money and perhaps would have worked better this season is the 'use of the U23s/young players model'.
Since Chris has had his fall out with the board we have regularly left spaces on our subs bench - presumably so he can 'score a point' against the board who we are led to believe refused our manager's requests for loan transfers in during the window.
Chris could have actually used the opportunity to put the young players on the bench and even give them a run out...!!!!.
One or two of them may have even done well and staked a claim (Hackford was our MoM v Crystal Palace) for first team football.
I know that there is a huge step up but it does happen (see Tyrick Mitchell, Billy Gilmour etc)
It would have been a lot more interesting seeing Ayari, Maguire, N'Diaye, Brunt, Gordon play, than Norwood make the same mistakes game in, game out.
If we get a good reputation in giving opportuinties to youth this will only help us recruit the better young players in the future.
And it doesn't cost us a bean and doesn't rely on a team of 20 nerds building spreadsheets.

 

[BobblesBlade]

and Mousset doesnt help or sway his mind its a good idea either.

Rubbish. He was signed from Bournemouth.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

And they still can’t get to the premier league!

They have had to sell to move on and have improved year on year and built and new stadium off the back of that model and obviously they are historically a smaller club who will probably be there next season either way...

I’m not saying everything they have done is great and we’ve been useless. But if we don’t look to improve the way we do things and learn lessons from the past 2 years recruitment we will not be back in the PL for a while.

 

[nopigfansintown]

brentford have made untold millions from clever scouting and selling for a profit. We are far too unimaginative in our approach and it’s cost us over the last 18months.

we’ve spend millions and millions. We could afford to put the infrastructure of some computers and some analysts which is all Brentford have done really if we were that way inclined.

We already use computer analytics programs and analysts. It's pretty standard throughout football nowadays. Brentford are in a different ball game with their approach. It's Bentham's business interests that allows them to get away with it; otherwise they'd be in breach of FFP rules. If I owned a football club I'd also own an online sports gambling business

 

[varkanoid]

Rubbish. He was signed from Bournemouth.

You do know he is French dont you ? just because he played for Bournemouth doesnt make him suddenly English and not a foreign player !

 

[Striker]

Whilst Brentford have done tremendously well finding real talent over the years it remains to be seen whether their recruitment system will work in the PL. The wages required to attract premier league players means Brentford would need to fish in a totally different pond than they do at present. They'd need a minimum of 5 premier league quality players to hold their own in the PL, plus squad player additions. As we know thats where you see the whites of the owners eyes. Finally they have to be an attractive proposition for potential signings against other premiership teams. If only it was as easy as designing a system!

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Po

Brentfords centre half is Pontus Jansson , our ficklers would have heart attack if he was ours.

Pontus shows himself up badly here.

 

[BobblesBlade]

You do know he is French dont you ? just because he played for Bournemouth doesnt make him suddenly English and not a foreign player !

I know he’s French but he had been at Bournemouth for some 3 years.
I’m saying rubbish because the talk was about the Brentford model and signing players from overseas.
Apart from berge who will probably be sold at a loss we don’t seem to like signing players from overseas

 

[MalmoBlade]

Brentford haven't made the Premier League yet, it's true, but surely playing attacking, entertaining, expansive football is better for the fans than having to endure what we've watched this season.

The idea of getting to the Premier League is all well and good but when people talk about "achievement" the question is what have we actually achieved in the last 96 years? I'll save you the trouble, it's the square root of Jack Shit and on that basis if you follow a club that doesn't "achieve" anything (i.e. most clubs) isn't it better that at least we score goals and entertain the fans?

I like the way Brentford play. For a small club in South West London they have consistently punched above their weight.

 

[WincobankBlade]

Brentford haven't made the Premier League yet, it's true, but surely playing attacking, entertaining, expansive football is better for the fans than having to endure what we've watched this season.

The idea of getting to the Premier League is all well and good but when people talk about "achievement" the question is what have we actually achieved in the last 96 years? I'll save you the trouble, it's the square root of Jack Shit and on that basis if you follow a club that doesn't "achieve" anything (i.e. most clubs) isn't it better that at least we score goals and entertain the fans?

I like the way Brentford play. For a small club in South West London they have consistently punched above their weight.

If just going on this season yes what we've watched is not great. But prior to that, these last few seasons we've been treated not only to attacking, entertaining, expansive football but also been promoted on two occasions under a manager who knows exactly how to do that. As well as flirted with Europe. In comparison to that Frank at Brentford has so far achieved fuck all.

 

[MalmoBlade]

If just going on this season yes what we've watched is not great. But prior to that, these last few seasons we've been treated not only to attacking, entertaining, expansive football but also been promoted on two occasions under a manager who knows exactly how to do that. As well as flirted with Europe. In comparison to that Frank at Brentford has so far achieved fuck all.

Can't fault that Winco. I'm obviously trying to convince myself that this year is a one-off and certainly CW's record suggests it probably will be. I just fear this awful form spilling over into next season that's all. It's been a great ride, I just don't want it to crash and burn. CW deserves better than that.

 

[sitwell]

we had 2 very succesful years back in the championship and 1 in the premier league thats still more than brentford have achieved dont see the obsession with brentford

Its not an obsession with Brentford ,its an obsession with slagging United off.

 

[ZLB]

Its not an obsession with Brentford ,its an obsession with slagging United off.

 

[alcoblade]

Because Wilder doesn't like signing or playing foreign players.

NEXT

Berge, Mousett, those other flops from last season?

 

[FMBlade1]

Berge, Mousett, those other flops from last season?

The exception proves the rule.

*Edit: And if they are flops, maybe our recruitment in that area is not good enough, and needs to be. It's almost as if someone has said this before:

Scouting infrastructure problems

This is something myself and a few others have been going on about for quite a while so I was glad someone brought this up at the fan's forum. I am not glad however at the response which seems to be extremely shortsighted. The championship is full of players who have been brought in from...

www.s24su.com

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Brentford model

 

[alcoblade]

The exception proves the rule.

*Edit: And if they are flops, maybe our recruitment in that area is not good enough, and needs to be. It's almost as if someone has said this before:

Scouting infrastructure problems

This is something myself and a few others have been going on about for quite a while so I was glad someone brought this up at the fan's forum. I am not glad however at the response which seems to be extremely shortsighted. The championship is full of players who have been brought in from...

www.s24su.com

You’re now swerving and changing the subject - you said “wilder doesn’t like signing foreigners” - so I pointed out several that show that simply isn’t true.

You’ve got a bit of an open net to demonstrate your hatred of all things Wilder / United right now. You don’t need to make stuff up to prove it.

 

[FMBlade1]

You’re now swerving and changing the subject - you said “wilder doesn’t like signing foreigners” - so I pointed out several that show that simply isn’t true.

You’ve got a bit of an open net to demonstrate your hatred of all things Wilder / United right now. You don’t need to make stuff up to prove it.

If you read what I said it was 'or playing'

 

[alcoblade]

If you read what I said it was 'or playing'

If you read what I was addressing, it was the bit about “doesn’t like signing”.

He doesn’t like playing them because the ones we’ve signed have been shite. That’s where any attention should be focussed.