BladesPod - latest episodes

[GrunkyPeep]

I'd love to know who the fan was that curtailed his enjoyment of a Berlin stag and flew home aghast as reported in the Stir.

I'd love to think it's someone getting up to no-good in Berghain, "Sorry everyone just had some terrible news, carry on the fisting without me"

 

[Rodley]

Felt like Widzy and his staff got a bit of battering on there, despite the regular refrain of “But I can see both sides of the argument”.

Saying none of the staff would get a job elsewhere in the Champ seems a little unfair. Didn’t seem to be any insight why. Maybe I misheard.

 

[Beans]

Felt like Widzy and his staff got a bit of battering on there, despite the regular refrain of “But I can see both sides of the argument”.

Saying none of the staff would get a job elsewhere in the Champ seems a little unfair. Didn’t seem to be any insight why. Maybe I misheard.

A job with another Championship team in United's position: parachute payments and promotion aspirations, is what I meant to say (or what I did say, sorry can't remember!). My "insight" being none of them have before outside of United! More a hunch but see where they end up I suppose.

 

[Wizard]

Absolutely. I've been kind of neutral on whether Wilder should stay or go - and to a point my opinion means nothing - but I'm slowly coming round to being optimistic that we are at least trying to solve some of the issues:

Reasons he should have stayed

• 92 points
• halfway through a rebuild
• one of our own
• beat SWFC (1990) twice

Reasons he should not have stayed

• 92 points represented a significant overperformance vs performances
• reversion to type in the big games
• fitness/conditioning
• seen nothing in his second spell that showed me he was willing/able to change
• lack of any defined style in second his period - over reliance on individual brilliance rather than tactical nous

The move to a back 4 was quite a big shift that to me showed he wanted to take a fresh approach.

I also feel like the "lack of defined style" tag is a bit lazy. You might not have thought it was the right one but we definitely had a consistent style and approach to games throughout the whole season. One that was built on the idea of defensive solidity after the horror show that was last season

 

[Selly]

The move to a back 4 was quite a big shift that to me showed he wanted to take a fresh approach.

I also feel like the "lack of defined style" tag is a bit lazy. You might not have thought it was the right one but we definitely had a consistent style and approach to games throughout the whole season. One that was built on the idea of defensive solidity after the horror show that was last season

Fair points.

I would ask, what was our defined style in terms of goalscoring/chance creation?

What was our plan to score goals.

And give it to Gus and hope summat happens isn' a plan.

 

[Wizard]

Fair points.

I would ask, what was our defined style in terms of goalscoring/chance creation?

What was our plan to score goals.

And give it to Gus and hope summat happens isn' a plan.

Look I'm not good at this and anyone working in the game will have more in depth knowledge of these things than I ever will but I think it was a little more sophisticated than give it to Gus and hope.

Hamer was given that left sided role and the freedom to roam and we played through him as our main creative outlet. From there he could carry the ball, try incisive passes and interchange with O'Hare without having to worry as much about being positionally disciplined and not giving the ball away like he might if he was in our midfield 2.

Initially we had Burrows as our more adventurous fullback offering consistent width/support on that side with Gilchrist sitting more on the other flank. Ahead of Gilchrist we'd then have a more traditional winger looking to be direct and stretch the opposition while our two 10s combined. We then had Campbell and Moore as different options up front. Souza and Peck/Arblaster operated as a really competitive, complimentary, solid midfield 2 that would protect the space in front of the CBs and give us a good base to work from.

I think that was roughly the general structure and it was created to be a little more conservative and focus on being good defensively while giving our best player the freedom to be our best attacker and make the difference

 

[I should coco]

I don’t really accept the ‘some yanks who know fuck all about soccer’ argument - nearly half the owners of Premier League clubs are American so to use an American phrase ‘go figure…’

I refer you to my later post about Brentford and Brighton's owners being long standing fans. Our owners aren't and I think they are making it up as they go along.

It might work, it might not, but that's the point. Nobody knows.

Crossed fingers then, eh?

 

[Frank the tank]

Look I'm not good at this and anyone working in the game will have more in depth knowledge of these things than I ever will but I think it was a little more sophisticated than give it to Gus and hope.

Hamer was given that left sided role and the freedom to roam and we played through him as our main creative outlet. From there he could carry the ball, try incisive passes and interchange with O'Hare without having to worry as much about being positionally disciplined and not giving the ball away like he might if he was in our midfield 2.

Initially we had Burrows as our more adventurous fullback offering consistent width/support on that side with Gilchrist sitting more on the other flank. Ahead of Gilchrist we'd then have a more traditional winger looking to be direct and stretch the opposition while our two 10s combined. We then had Campbell and Moore as different options up front. Souza and Peck/Arblaster operated as a really competitive, complimentary, solid midfield 2 that would protect the space in front of the CBs and give us a good base to work from.

I think that was roughly the general structure and it was created to be a little more conservative and focus on being good defensively while giving our best player the freedom to be our best attacker and make the difference

That was definitely the plan from the start and it worked really really well
Then souttar got injured and it didn't
We tried to carry on the same with anel and robbo which is like building a fort on quick sand
We brought in more attacking options and played them all out of position and ended up changing to 4-4-2 which worked really well
Until the hour mark when Campbell had to come off and be replaced by cannon and the attacking threat was gone and the pressure back on the lightweight centre backs

 

[Gimli]

I refer you to my later post about Brentford and Brighton's owners being long standing fans. Our owners aren't and I think they are making it up as they go along.

It might work, it might not, but that's the point. Nobody knows.

Crossed fingers then, eh?

Brentford have a lesser known good example of binning a manager off because they didn’t suit the system - after Mark Warburton left them, a guy by the name of Marinus Dijkhuizen took over, it didn’t work and he left after 10 games - replaced by Dean Smith who suited them much better - maybe we might do something similar who knows!

 

[Selly]

Until the hour mark when Campbell had to come off and be replaced by cannon and the attacking threat was gone and the pressure back on the lightweight centre backs

Cannon didn't come on for Campbell - COH did.

Cannon wasn't on until the 90th min. Hindsight is wonderful but if Cannon had come on for TC we may have continued to threaten and kept them 10 yards deeper.

 

[Frank the tank]

Cannon didn't come on for Campbell - COH did.

Cannon wasn't on until the 90th min. Hindsight is wonderful but if Cannon had come on for TC we may have continued to threaten and kept them 10 yards deeper.

I wasn't talking about the play off final specifically
More in general

 

[Wizard]

That was definitely the plan from the start and it worked really really well
Then souttar got injured and it didn't
We tried to carry on the same with anel and robbo which is like building a fort on quick sand
We brought in more attacking options and played them all out of position and ended up changing to 4-4-2 which worked really well
Until the hour mark when Campbell had to come off and be replaced by cannon and the attacking threat was gone and the pressure back on the lightweight centre backs

I sympathise with those frustrations but I think this is largely due to us having to rebuild the bulk of the squad in the summer without investment and then supplementing it with whatever out of favour players we could find in January. Doing that successfully was hard enough and expecting us to do that and then also have contingencies for if key players are out for the season was in my opinion too much to ask.

Cannon has been disappointing but as a young striker who is currently a depth option and will be here over a number of years he doesn't have to do much to make his fee worthwhile. The bar is low but I'd probably rather have him than Jebbison although Osula would probably have been more of a nuisance. Not that that's much comfort when we've just lost the playoff final.

 

[Wizard]

This was effectively our squad before any summer transfers or promoting youth players. To turn this into comfortably the 3rd best side without much backing (around £6-£11m including add-ons) was a real achievement.

 

[Frank the tank]

This was effectively our squad before any summer transfers or promoting youth players. To turn this into comfortably the 3rd best side without much backing (around £6-£11m including add-ons) was a real achievement.
View attachment 213940

It was
He did an amazing Job fist half of the season and then when the takeover went through and he was backed in January he cms up short

 

[Wizard]

It was
He did an amazing Job fist half of the season and then when the takeover went through and he was backed in January he cms up short

But how much can you really do with "backing in January"? And realistically how much was he backed? The players we picked up were opportunities to fill gaps we still had in the squad. Choudhury, Clarke, BBD, Holding were all out of favour at the their parent club which is why they were available. It's not like we could go and get our ideal targets to fill certain roles because those players just aren't on the market then.

Cannon was the only one we bought and that's because he was already out on loan so he was recalled and we picked him up as a development forward on a long term deal.

Holding is the one where I think he either should've played more or we should've gone for someone else if his fitness wasn't up to scratch.

Ultimately though to me these aren't monumental errors that signal an incapability to succeed next season. I see no reason why after another summer window Wilder wouldn't have got this squad into a stronger position.

If the board and Wilder weren't aligned then he had to go because you need that coordinated strategy to succeed but it's a big big swing from the board to go in another direction.

 

[Working Class Hero]

Was going to hold this one until we get official confirmation but seeing as it's so widely reported I thought I'd publish it now rather than risk it becoming dated once we learn more. Roygbiv and I react to the news of Chris Wilder's sacking - the why, when and what comes next:

Great pod as ever gents (now I feel like a Talksport caller). It did feel like you have both convinced yourselves to be optimistic since hearing the news though, and disregarded a couple of important points in dong so.

For instance, there was a lot of talk about next year being the same old story, trying to grind out wins, when it was clear (to me anyway) that Wilder had tried to correct that and we'd gone much more attacking for those last 6 games, and looked much better for it. That would suggest he would have set up differently going forward.

The main gripe also seemed to be that we'd dropped off in the second half of the season, which only happened because we were massively overachieving in the first half (and injuries to hugely key players). We can't be sacking managers for a downturn in results, if that's only borne out of an anomaly in the first place can we? That would go for any results based performance in any industry. No one, including the owners, could have expected us to be where we were at the half way point.

For the record, I would have kept Wilder (as I'm sure you can tell) and Selles wouldn't have been on my list either, but after the initial disbelief, I'm pretty indifferent to the whole situation.

 

[Sheffsteel]

A bit delayed but I’ve only just listened to the pod and got to say….its well considered and the logic for the change does make sense. Tend to enjoy and agree with most of your viewpoints and I’m the same on this.

Think with Willder we were gauranteed 4th to 6th. Where as with Selles we should finish between 1st and 10th but it could turn into a bottom half disaster.

I’m not a gambler unless I know the odds are stacked in my favour and I’m also a Wilder fans so personally I would have kept him but my lack of risk taking is one of the reasons I’m not wealthy.

I initially have massive respect for anyone putting 100 million down on the table to buy the club and accept that new owners are unlikely to sit on their hands, thinking Wilder is generally doing well to he’s OK. Talented millionaire business men tend to be big gamblers and of course they’ll want to stamp their influence on the club asap.

Also Roy makes a good point that when a player or manager becomes bigger than the club, it’s a massive worry. As mentioned I’m a Wilder fan and thank him for giving me my best times in 50 years but my loyalties to Sheff Utd are much much stronger than any manager or player.

The change to Selles is concerning but also exciting. We’ve tried to get away from the old fashioned Blady Bladiness and it’s always failed but it’s embarrassing that some fans see Billy Sharp or Nick Montgomery as our next manager.

Really think we need to break away from the Sheffield mentality of being terrified of change and accepting mediocrity. We need to think bigger. Bette to have tried and failed instead of not towing at all.

So altho I have reservations about Selles, it’s a scary life but as a club if we want to move forward we have to bite the nettle.

 

[Roygbiv]

A bit delayed but I’ve only just listened to the pod and got to say….its well considered and the logic for the change does make sense. Tend to enjoy and agree with most of your viewpoints and I’m the same on this.

Think with Willder we were gauranteed 4th to 6th. Where as with Selles we should finish between 1st and 10th but it could turn into a bottom half disaster.

I’m not a gambler unless I know the odds are stacked in my favour and I’m also a Wilder fans so personally I would have kept him but my lack of risk taking is one of the reasons I’m not wealthy.

I initially have massive respect for anyone putting 100 million down on the table to buy the club and accept that new owners are unlikely to sit on their hands, thinking Wilder is generally doing well to he’s OK. Talented millionaire business men tend to be big gamblers and of course they’ll want to stamp their influence on the club asap.

Also Roy makes a good point that when a player or manager becomes bigger than the club, it’s a massive worry. As mentioned I’m a Wilder fan and thank him for giving me my best times in 50 years but my loyalties to Sheff Utd are much much stronger than any manager or player.

The change to Selles is concerning but also exciting. We’ve tried to get away from the old fashioned Blady Bladiness and it’s always failed but it’s embarrassing that some fans see Billy Sharp or Nick Montgomery as our next manager.

Really think we need to break away from the Sheffield mentality of being terrified of change and accepting mediocrity. We need to think bigger. Bette to have tried and failed instead of not towing at all.

So altho I have reservations about Selles, it’s a scary life but as a club if we want to move forward we have to bite the nettle.

Agree with all of this. We did need to move away from Wilder and the one person overseeing everything style management but I'm not sure now was the right time. Selles is a complete unknown. He hasn't been in charge at a normal club at any point during his career. Everything has been crisis management so far for him so this is a true test of what he's all about

 

[Frank the tank]

If we had stuck with wilder and on the balance of probability, just missed out again
Then what ?
No parachute money
A playing squad with no real resale value compared to most sides who have yo-yo up from.prem a few times
Be back where we started

At least this way it's a considered gamble with the right backing it could really shape the future of the club

 

[coaxingstar71]

Great pod as ever gents (now I feel like a Talksport caller). It did feel like you have both convinced yourselves to be optimistic since hearing the news though, and disregarded a couple of important points in dong so.

For instance, there was a lot of talk about next year being the same old story, trying to grind out wins, when it was clear (to me anyway) that Wilder had tried to correct that and we'd gone much more attacking for those last 6 games, and looked much better for it. That would suggest he would have set up differently going forward.

The main gripe also seemed to be that we'd dropped off in the second half of the season, which only happened because we were massively overachieving in the first half (and injuries to hugely key players). We can't be sacking managers for a downturn in results, if that's only borne out of an anomaly in the first place can we? That would go for any results based performance in any industry. No one, including the owners, could have expected us to be where we were at the half way point.

For the record, I would have kept Wilder (as I'm sure you can tell) and Selles wouldn't have been on my list either, but after the initial disbelief, I'm pretty indifferent to the whole situation.

Absolutely agree with every word of your post and I’m glad because I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that way.
I get the feeling that some fans will now be happy if we finish midtable and call it a success.
The hard facts are we’ve replaced a manager who has 5 promotions on his CV with one with none.

 

[Frank the tank]

Absolutely agree with every word of your post and I’m glad because I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that way.
I get the feeling that some fans will now be happy if we finish midtable and call it a success.
The hard facts are we’ve replaced a manager who has 5 promotions on his CV with one with none.

Not sure what you mean by ' some fans ' but I doubt any of our fanbase will be happy with mid table in the samme way that large sections weren't happy with last season ,with being promoted even with finishing ninth
Some of our fan base our never happy
Maybe people myself included are just hoping for a brighter day after a traumatic end to last season

 

[Rodley]

Selles is here to do what Wilder couldn’t, get top two. Got to be optimistic that the Board have seen something in him to be the man to get us automatic promotion next year. He certainly speaks well and will get my backing.

Goo on Ruby lad, gerrustoptwo!

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Enjoyed the Pod and found myself agreeing with Beans and Roygbiv .

I understand the logic behind taking a calculated gamble. As highlighted above, it would have been a gamble sticking with Wilder too.

But also, as Roygbiv said, I probably would have stuck with Wilder for one more year as we know he'd have us at the right end of the table.

Ultimately though, if the Board is determined to modernise & change the way we do things then nobody can realistically point to Wilder as being the right man for that job.

I'm gutted to see him go and the connection to the fans and club identity he built probably leaves with him.
But let's see what happens.

 

[Frank the tank]

I personally think the board have shown tremendous insight

We need to be improving players and selling for profit
At the moment we are surviving by selling academy graduates then spending big fees on players and getting no return

We need a different model one that can sustain us without parachute payments

Wilder would definitely have got us top six but I have completely lost faith in him to get us over the line

The games wouldn't have been enjoyable with last seasons lacklustre atmosphere made worse by an inevitable feeling of yeah we've won now but we will fuck it up at the business end of the season ..and then

A squad with little resale value realistically and no parachute money to cover the wages

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Agree with all of this. We did need to move away from Wilder and the one person overseeing everything style management but I'm not sure now was the right time. Selles is a complete unknown. He hasn't been in charge at a normal club at any point during his career. Everything has been crisis management so far for him so this is a true test of what he's all about

Have we moved away from that style of management though?

No Director of Football appointed, which was supposed to be the great leap forward towards the “modern and better” way of doing things.

Wilder’s mate Jamie Hoyland reappointed as Chief Scout when the grand plan according to some was to get away from the “Bladey” recruitment system. (I personally don’t mind an experienced and proven “Bladey” human being in charge of recruitment rather than some unknown new bloke and an investor with an interest in AI)

Selles reportedly saying that we are mostly looking at loans and free transfers to improve the squad. Why? Are we Sheffield Wednesday? We might as well be. At least the last manager was allowed to reinvest some of the funds he raised through sales (Osula) Maybe not under the new regime? (Souza)

The main undeniable change is the unnecessary risk of replacing a manager with 5 promotions on his CV with a manager more associated with teams avoiding relegation (apart from when he got relegated with Southampton).

I hope it all works out and any change can initially seem exciting compared with sticking to the same routine but has anything really changed much other than the manager? We might’ve well have kept or recruited a proven manager if that was all we were changing.

 

[Beans]

Hello S2! After a bit of a summer sabbatical, Roygbiv and I have finally recorded another episode. I won't pretend that this is particularly insightful given we've been quite checked out this summer, but hopefully it will help you - as it did us - get heads back in the game ahead of next week's kick-off. Cheers for listening!

 

[BLADES1988]

Woohoo finally

 

[Nesh Blade]

Hello S2! After a bit of a summer sabbatical, Roygbiv and I have finally recorded another episode. I won't pretend that this is particularly insightful given we've been quite checked out this summer, but hopefully it will help you - as it did us - get heads back in the game ahead of next week's kick-off. Cheers for listening!

 

[Shadota]

Hello S2! After a bit of a summer sabbatical, Roygbiv and I have finally recorded another episode. I won't pretend that this is particularly insightful given we've been quite checked out this summer, but hopefully it will help you - as it did us - get heads back in the game ahead of next week's kick-off. Cheers for listening!

A good listen as always gents.

I don't blame you for taking an extended break. Last season, and the way it ended in particular, was truly exhausting. If I was one for creating Blades-related content, I'd have disappeared for a bit as well!

 

[Cappy]

Cheers boys, good pod as always. You didn't have my full attention though. The internet has been a very very generous provider of gifts today. And I didn't even need to prove my age.

UTB