Blades Against Racism

[yorkshirecoast]

I hear you. But, it needs to fucking well continue right now. The SUFC players are OK with it. The West Indies Cricket team are OK with it. I'm OK with it. You're out of step. Which is fine. You're allowed to be. But, you can see. Today. Your club. Your players. You're out of step. I'm happy for you to bring your argument to me. But, really, you need to take it to Raheem, Didzy & the remarkable Jason Holder.

The Premier League have decided to support BLM but there is absolutely no way every player and official, of our club and every other club, will be comfortable with it. Some will be, some won’t. Players know they would be slaughtered in the media if they refused to take a knee.

There is a big difference between being anti-racist and supporting BLM - an organisation that has been hijacked by Antifa and other left wing extremists and whose stated aims are ludicrous and dangerous. Fortunately there is absolutely no way those aims will ever be realised.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Are you really trying to get into a debate about the nuances of privilege and intersectionality? Is this topic not above that? I was responding to how the club should approach things, and for the most part those in senior positions within the organisation are not working classes with little privilege.

People filter what they hear. It isn't by choice; it is human nature. I don't, and can't, know what it is like to grow up as a black man because I'm not, and if someone describes their experiences of growing up as a black man to me I cannot help but filter what I hear through my own experiences and understanding of the world. The challenge for me is to recognise that I do that and to try and hear it and respond to it without that filter.

Any other interpretation you want to put on what I wrote is your own projection.

It was above it. Then you mentioned white privilege. I didn’t project that.

It had little to do with the OP in any event.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The Premier League have decided to support BLM but there is absolutely no way every player and official, of our club and every other club, will be comfortable with it. Some will be, some won’t. Players know they would be slaughtered in the media if they refused to take a knee.

There is a big difference between being anti-racist and supporting BLM - an organisation that has been hijacked by Antifa and other left wing extremists and whose stated aims are ludicrous and dangerous. Fortunately there is absolutely no way those aims will ever be realised.

Fine. Not my problem. I'm not the one wearing BLM names & logos on my Sheffield United football shirt in front of a worldwide TV audience. I'm a lost cause to you. I understand your point. Disagree with it. But, understand it. You need to hope the worldwide TV audience understand your point as well.

 

[Addison]

Premier League: Black Lives Matter campaign 'not endorsement of political movement'

The Premier League says its Black Lives Matter campaign is to send a message it is unacceptable to treat black people differently to others.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Barney]

The majority of people won't be able to recall any events of racism at the Lane going back years which shows how far we've come as a society on the issue.

However, the racism that does still exist needs harsher punishment.

 

[de g.]

It was above it. Then you mentioned white privilege. I didn’t project that.

It had little to do with the OP in any event.

I didn't deny I mentioned white privilege. It was you who placed a political interpretation on that.

Privilege has everything to do with the OP. White privilege and racism are flip-sides of the same coin.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Are you really trying to get into a debate about the nuances of privilege and intersectionality? Is this topic not above that? I was responding to how the club should approach things, and for the most part those in senior positions within the organisation are not working classes with little privilege.

People filter what they hear. It isn't by choice; it is human nature. I don't, and can't, know what it is like to grow up as a black man because I'm not, and if someone describes their experiences of growing up as a black man to me I cannot help but filter what I hear through my own experiences and understanding of the world. The challenge for me is to recognise that I do that and to try and hear it and respond to it without that filter.

Any other interpretation you want to put on what I wrote is your own projection.

For clarity, the only thing l disagreed with in what I believe to be an excellent post was you’re use of “White privilege”.

Aren’t we looking more for understanding than blame? BAME Blades will have an actual take on matters which is why l suggested their views should be a starting point for the OP’s plans.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I didn't deny I mentioned white privilege. It was you who placed a political interpretation on that.

Privilege has everything to do with the OP. White privilege and racism are flip-sides of the same coin.

Do you see privilege across the whole Non BAME Blades support? In the boardroom? How do you reconcile privilege with individuals?

 

[pommpey]

Nobody suggested it is anything more than solidarity, and hiding behind saying that it doesn’t achieve anything says more about you than the gesture itself.

Yup. Gaslighting. It doesn't say anything about me, that you need to be concerned about only that I fail to see what it achieves and think the movement is not what it purports to be. If you support the end of capitalism and the law enforcement framework at the expense of virtue signalling then maybe it says more about your principles than it does your intent. Taking the knee 'in support of Black Lives Matter' endorses everything they stand for, over and above the end of racism. If the KKK said they would cure cancer, would you don their hood?

Nobody is forcing you to join in, but it baffles me that a group of blokes on a football pitch taking a knee is something to moan about.

It's what it stands for, and the wholesale waste of effort it embodies. Racists will look at that and be more racist.

pommpey

 

[Barney]

The minds that really have to be changed aren’t the privileged white middle class you mentioned, it’s the large numbers of working classes - often with little privilege- who through ignorance or whatever hold racist opinions at times, if not all the times. The more “white privilege” comments they hear arent going to begin to change their minds.

It’s as if every community is identified by some generic character that only those theorising recognise.

If you’re filtering out stuff simply because you don’t like it, you can’t see the bigger picture.

Racists can be in the 'old white privilege' category you describe, or in the little privilege category you describe. They can be and are in both.

The privileged types are often old and haven't changed mindset from when racism was widespread.

Sometimes this is then sadly passed down to their kids/grandkids.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I get it. You're convinced BLM is a far left, Marxist organisation. You're convinced the Tommie Smith salute shows support for a racial supremacist organisation. You're convinced taking a knee really means..... (sorry, can't remember that one). All the players have been duped & are pawns in some evil global conspiracy. I get it.
But, all I see is a few blokes, who generally make me smile anyway, doing something joyous together, against a backdrop of something serious & worrying. I don't feel threatened by that. I don't think it foretells the imminent disintegration of Ponzi Scheme, Pyramid Selling, Capitalism. You're in too deep. Come to the shallow end, the water is lovely. What are you worried about? Have this on me, Raheem Sterling is not going to introduce a Wealth Tax any time soon. Logos. Knee. Salutes. Might be a load of shit. Might not. World turned.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Racists can be in the 'old white privilege' category you describe, or in the little privilege category you describe. They can be and are in both.

The older privileged types are often old and haven't changed mindset from when racism was widespread.

Sometimes this is then sadly passed down to their kids/grandkids.

As I said, l thought this excellent idea was about what we can do, not who we can blame.

Speaking personally, my family in Ireland were dirt poor farm/land labourers. Now I can’t say with absolute 100% proof we didn’t have slaves, but when six brothers moved from the green fields of Galway to the slums of Pond Street, l know they didn’t come with them.

To be serious, the white people who talk about white privilege tend, a generalization I know, to actually be people who have benefitted from it from middle class families.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Pathetic. Not in the way it is today and they were mainly gang related. Keep your stupid asinine comments to yourself and get on with your homework.

You're not very open to reasoned discussion or facts that don't suit your world view, are you? Some people are just trying to make the world a nicer, more equal and fairer place, so why is that such a bad thing, and why do you feel the need to personalise and politicise everything?

 

[Barney]

I get it. You're convinced BLM is a far left, Marxist organisation. You're convinced the Tommie Smith salute shows support for a racial supremacist organisation. You're convinced taking a knee really means..... (sorry, can't remember that one). All the players have been duped & are pawns in some evil global conspiracy. I get it.
But, all I see is a few blokes, who generally make me smile anyway, doing something joyous together, against a backdrop of something serious & worrying. I don't feel threatened by that. I don't think it foretells the imminent disintegration of Ponzi Scheme, Pyramid Selling, Capitalism. You're in too deep. Come to the shallow end, the water is lovely. What are you worried about? Have this on me, Raheem Sterling is not going to introduce a Wealth Tax any time soon. Logos. Knee. Salutes. Might be a load of shit. Might not. World turned.

It's a shame that people are hijacking a civil rights movement to promote a different agenda altogether which is far leftism/communism/anarchy.

The fact they are choosing a topic like this to do that is sad and disrespects the genuine movement.

 

[Bladesman]

The Premier League have decided to support BLM but there is absolutely no way every player and official, of our club and every other club, will be comfortable with it. Some will be, some won’t. Players know they would be slaughtered in the media if they refused to take a knee.

There is a big difference between being anti-racist and supporting BLM - an organisation that has been hijacked by Antifa and other left wing extremists and whose stated aims are ludicrous and dangerous. Fortunately there is absolutely no way those aims will ever be realised.

Some F1 drivers came in for stick for not taking the knee last week and this week. F1 have called their campaign End Racism and all the drivers wore the shirt and are fully in support. This week because some drivers still didn't take the knee the TV cameras cut away to some sky divers that were part of the race opening ceremony.

Every driver explained why they did not take the knee last week yet still supported the End Racism campaign. As usual with the media it isn't enough, they must take the knee or they are not against racism.

So you can imagine any footballer that chooses to go rogue and not take the knee will be heavily vilified for it.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

It's a shame that people are hijacking a civil rights movement to promote a different agenda altogether which is far leftism/communism/anarchy.

The fact they are choosing a topic like this to do that is sad and disrespects the genuine movement.

Hang on. Hang on. Let me do a countback backtrack highjack
Right got it.
I'm hijacking the highjacked, pre highjacked, jacked high, highjacked highjacker. And..... haven't you just tried to highjack it?
Didzy. Knee. Ref's whistle. Kick off.....

 

[Barney]

Hang on. Hang on. Let me do a countback backtrack highjack
Right got it.
I'm hijacking the highjacked, pre highjacked, jacked high, highjacked highjacker. And..... haven't you just tried to highjack it?
Didzy. Knee. Ref's whistle. Kick off.....

You ok hun?

 

[pommpey]

I get it. You're convinced BLM is a far left, Marxist organisation.

Yeah. There's nothing to 'convince' either. It is entirely that. Would you support any other extremist organisation if it appeared to stand for some righteous cause (the solutions for the cause are actually the dismantling of capitalism and the law enforcement agencies)?

You're convinced the Tommie Smith salute shows support for a racial supremacist organisation.

Yes. Again, there's no 'convincing' to be done. Black Power is the antithesis of the KKK. Ifthe players did a Hitler salute, would that concern you at all? It fucking would me. I'd switch the fucking telly off and consider my loyalty to a nazi-supporting football club. You might want to try to play this down a bit in your 'harmless, jocular fashion'. Try doing it if they all raised their right arm with their hands out straight at 45 degrees

You're convinced taking a knee really means..... (sorry, can't remember that one).

Well, what DOES it mean? They are 'in solidarity' with a shadowy marxist organisation. And now ... how does that stop one solitary racist from continuing to be racist?

All the players have been duped & are pawns in some evil global conspiracy. I get it.

No you don't. You just can't defend the actions correctly, and you're trying to make me look like the over-reacting party here.

But, all I see is a few blokes, who generally make me smile anyway, doing something joyous together, against a backdrop of something serious & worrying. I don't feel threatened by that. I don't think it foretells the imminent disintegration of Ponzi Scheme, Pyramid Selling, Capitalism. You're in too deep. Come to the shallow end, the water is lovely. What are you worried about? Have this on me, Raheem Sterling is not going to introduce a Wealth Tax any time soon. Logos. Knee. Salutes. Might be a load of shit. Might not. World turned.

So might/might not = waste of effort getting aligned to an anti-capitalist organisation. Particularly if you live in a fucking great big Cheshire pile, drive a Bentley sports model and have an accountant manage your £200k per week wages (plus bonuses and sponsorships)

If you want change, get off your fucking knees and make it fucking happen. Virtue signalling is worthless, and as ineffective as the kick it out campaign.

pommpey

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

You ok hun?

Mate, quick, he's just left the room for a wee wee, I've been highjacked, can you get a message to World Leader of Anarchy for me..... Desperate here

 

[bladesmanluke]

Cameras and audio surveillance all over the stadium and on the terraces. So if anyone says anything racist etc they WILL be caught and prosecuted.

We are a PL club, the technology is there so there's no excuse not to do it. Every club that can afford it should.

I have heard racism at the lane. It doesn't happen often and I think we're better than most clubs, but it certainly still happens and it's a problem. I don't think this is the solution though. It would only be a matter of time before you'd start removing not just racists, but anyone who said anything you didn't like as we see happening more and more regularly in society now with a cancel culture that's only getting worse and worse.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yeah. There's nothing to 'convince' either. It is entirely that. Would you support any other extremist organisation if it appeared to stand for some righteous cause (the solutions for the cause are actually the dismantling of capitalism and the law enforcement agencies)?



Yes. Again, there's no 'convincing' to be done. Black Power is the antithesis of the KKK. Ifthe players did a Hitler salute, would that concern you at all? It fucking would me. I'd switch the fucking telly off and consider my loyalty to a nazi-supporting football club. You might want to try to play this down a bit in your 'harmless, jocular fashion'. Try doing it if they all raised their right arm with their hands out straight at 45 degrees



Well, what DOES it mean? They are 'in solidarity' with a shadowy marxist organisation. And now ... how does that stop one solitary racist from continuing to be racist?



No you don't. You just can't defend the actions correctly, and you're trying to make me look like the over-reacting party here.



So might/might not = waste of effort getting aligned to an anti-capitalist organisation. Particularly if you live in a fucking great big Cheshire pile, drive a Bentley sports model and have an accountant manage your £200k per week wages (plus bonuses and sponsorships)

If you want change, get off your fucking knees and make it fucking happen. Virtue signalling is worthless, and as ineffective as the kick it out campaign.

pommpey

Post wasn't in reply to one of yours. Deliberately. I've already said I understand your views. And have no problem with you holding them.

 

[de g.]

It's a shame that people are hijacking a civil rights movement to promote a different agenda altogether which is far leftism/communism/anarchy.

The fact they are choosing a topic like this to do that is sad and disrespects the genuine movement.

Black Lives Matter isn't defined by any particular political ideology. It is by its very definition a broad-based, decentralised coalition and among that are people with a range of different political perspectives. @BLMUK is not the Black Lives Matter UK Coalition, which is distinct from the US Black Lives Matter movements and so on.

Any attempt to define BLM based on any kind of political ideology is to fundamentally misunderstand what BLM is.

 

[JohnDenver]

The majority of people won't be able to recall any events of racism at the Lane going back years which shows how far we've come as a society on the issue.

However, the racism that does still exist needs harsher punishment.

The best punishment would be to distance perpetrators, not just from the club via banning orders etc, but from fellow fans. This is why I’ve always been happy to see punishments that affect the majority for the behaviour of the minority. Not many agree, but I’m all for it. Racist chant? Close a stand. Do it again? Deduct points. Drive a wedge between those who can’t behave and those who currently just about tolerate them.

I think the real stumbling block right now might be that with loyalty points and a Prem team tickets are hard to get hold of and anything like giving them away or letting people beat the system would be met with a lot of negativity. But ultimately I think the solution is to support people enough to get them in the ground. Racism is a lot harder in an integrated society.

It is improving, and part of the solution is what a lot of people rail against. The good ol’ Premier League bandwagon and its army of marketeers are pulling new people into the ground. Fair weather or otherwise, ticket limitations notwithstanding, it’s happening.

For the first time ever I’ve seen a woman in a hijab with her young boy in the south stand. And we’re dreaming if we pretend there aren’t still people in the stadium who might have made that a very uncomfortable experience for them.

 

[Barney]

Black Lives Matter isn't defined by any particular political ideology. It is by its very definition a broad-based, decentralised coalition and among that are people with a range of different political perspectives. @BLMUK is not the Black Lives Matter UK Coalition, which is distinct from the US Black Lives Matter movements and so on.

Any attempt to define BLM based on any kind of political ideology is to fundamentally misunderstand what BLM is.

With respect pal that's basically what I said. There are people who are using it as a vehicle for completely different wild agendas which is wrong and disrespects the genuine movement. The vast majority of all those on the protests want racial equality, not communism or anarchy.

 

[S6 Blade]

We're almost out. I make that almost 500 in 7.5 hours.

Amazing!

 

[FMBlade1]

I have heard racism at the lane. It doesn't happen often and I think we're better than most clubs, but it certainly still happens and it's a problem. I don't think this is the solution though. It would only be a matter of time before you'd start removing not just racists, but anyone who said anything you didn't like as we see happening more and more regularly in society now with a cancel culture that's only getting worse and worse.

Had thought of this.

I'm sure some software could be created where special words and phrases would be picked up with an alert system with all else deleted.

So saying the 'n word' would automatically flash up, then stewards remove you then information passed onto the police.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I will push back on one point. And, it is my opinion, and everyone can disagree with it, that's fine. I actually feel the dismantling & defunding of the Royal Ulster Constabulary ("the police") was a very important step in moving towards a more peaceful & equal society in N Ireland. It's far from perfect, but "the new police" PSNI is a step forward (opinion) coming from what I understand defunding the police means. When I hear defund the police, I don't hear - get rid of the police, all together, no more police, not even in Haribo Ads, never, ever.....
I hear more what WE'VE ALREADY DONE IN CAPITALS AS A NATION, somewhat successfully. I'm just a cuddly old anarchist really....

 

[pommpey]

Black Lives Matter isn't defined by any particular political ideology. It is by its very definition a broad-based, decentralised coalition and among that are people with a range of different political perspectives. @BLMUK is not the Black Lives Matter UK Coalition, which is distinct from the US Black Lives Matter movements and so on.

Any attempt to define BLM based on any kind of political ideology is to fundamentally misunderstand what BLM is.

Yeah, that's right.

Hitler said he was a socialist* too. Did you know that?

Let's not get pedantic about the People's Front of Judea and the Popular Front

Anything which wears the 'Black Lives Matter' iconography is associated with the origin point - BLMUK, BLMUK Coalition or BLM (ZanuPF). It's a movement which has marxist ideology as it's pulsing vein and whatever traction it gains, the core belief is the dismantling of capitalism and the deconstruction of the lawmaking structure. If it distances itself from marxism, it completely loses it's motive force.

pommpey

*he wasn't, as we all know

 

[Nickydblade]

Taking the knee is a direct correlation to Black Lives Matter. Whilst that name itself conjures up a great hail of trumpets, the three words are pretty vacuous, meaningless and have no 'flash to bang'. Hence central London getting pulped.

I don't understand what people taking the knee is meant to achieve. Are Alf Garnet 'fackin' c--ns' bastards suddenly meant to bring about their bigotry and dyed in racism and suddenly realise what they are about? You'd like to think so, but the realism is nowhere near. If anything, it will marginalise and embitter even more. The whole black fist in the air business isn't cutting too much of a dash with me either. It's relating to an even more divisive movment than BLM. Badges on strips, let's kick out racism on hoardings and banners. It's powderpuff nonsense. It skips off the hardened armour of bigots and haters and makes them more resolute. It's simply 'name calling by another name'

However, get active and deny these bastards their freedoms and rights and they suffer. Find them in the ground, camera them, root them out and ban them for life ... shut down their communications and if needed, create legislation which ends in a custodial sentence and you are some way onto a winner, but like most things such as your young men ending up in drug gang warfare and stabbed, all of this starts at home. People aren't born racist - or gangsters. They hear these phrases and adopt these viewpoints from an early age. It's a family, cultural seed which grows the monster triffid. And that is 'something has to be done' outside the club's balliwick.

pommpey

I know three white people who have explicitly said that the BLM has changed their mind and in one of their words 'become educated' about issues of racism.

Others have mentioned it in respectful and generally positive terms. People who, as a rule, are unlikely to champion anti-racist causes.

These do not include the lefty, woke, Marxist, SJW, do-gooder, snowflakes (or whatever you want to call them) I know, because they were 'on board' already.

A handful of people I know have also reacted in a similar way to you. They are discussing things more openly than they have before (to my knowledge).

You may be correct that it is divisive for some, and the confrontational language and tone you adopt certainly seems to be inviting this (so a self-fulfilling prophecy). In a world where Trump is leader of the free world you may be right. However, I think, and hope, you are wrong about this, and if you are wrong about divisiveness then isn't that better for all of us? Surely you don't hope you are right?

Therefore, in my limited sample, BLM is having an impact. I imagine this is being repeated with, literally, millions of people. It may 'fizzle out'. It may strengthen or bring some more racist opinions to the fore (so possibly be counterproductive). It's good to talk though. Ideally with civility.

 

[Bladesman]

It's a shame that people are hijacking a civil rights movement to promote a different agenda altogether which is far leftism/communism/anarchy.

The fact they are choosing a topic like this to do that is sad and disrespects the genuine movement.

Always happens, look at Extinction Rebellion. It starts out as a well meaning "climate change movement" but it ends up being far left politics via the back door.