Blades Against Racism

[Sean Thornton]

Alright Steve Mackan
Interesting day you had yesterday I'm guessing.
I strongly support your approach (I'm paraphrasing) - don't get sucked in to the fine detail & definitions - it's Racism we're against. That's the message. Get a rooftop. Shout.
Anyone who doesn't support Black Lives Matter shirt names, BLM shirt logos, players taking the knee and making the Tommie Smith fist salute is now clearly on a different path to the players & the club. Clearly different. That's OK. Grown Ups can have their own views. But, be in no doubt that you're at odds with, not on the same page as, the players & the club (& some of your fellow fans). I welcome the clear lines being etched out. Good luck Sunshine.

Accepting Black Lives Matter, the reality, not the slogan, doesn’t mean you have to align with the political views of the movement itself. I’m pretty sure when the Majority of players take the knee it’s not fully in line with the particular “wing” more about supporting fellow human beings.

Of course to begin to understand that, one needs to accept that not everyone who didnt vote Labour recently is a racist.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I genuinely couldn't believe it and her reaction to me was "You get used to it". I think that hurt the most. Nobody should get that kind of abuse, let alone get used to it.

This! This is why I try to avoid the debate. I live with someone who has had 50+ years of it. Blatant comments like that, right down to the more hidden and subtle stuff that only with hindsight is identified as racism. The thing that made me weep was the Didzy response, not the actual comment, because I could feel the frustrated weariness with years of it in that and it was the same thing I've heard constantly.

And thank you Ball_Sup (Phil) for expressing it more eloquently than my emotion allows me to.

 

[FMBlade1]

Isn't that the trade off with living in a society without 24 hr video & audio recording and movement & communication tracking?

I'm not saying in your home, I'm saying in football stadiums.

You don't object to CCTV in train carriages so why not CCTV on each terrace?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Accepting Black Lives Matter, the reality, not the slogan, doesn’t mean you have to align with the political views of the movement itself. I’m pretty sure when the Majority of players take the knee it’s not fully in line with the particular “wing” more about supporting fellow human beings.

Of course to begin to understand that, one needs to accept that not everyone who didnt vote Labour recently is a racist.

I support first hand what's in front of my eyes (or not, you're allowed not). I see players I respect taking the knee. They're doing that because they want to make an anti racist gesture. I support them & that. The political tactics of some organisation apparently down a food chain are of secondary (in fact much less than that) importance to me. I could debate that. But, can't see the point in this context.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I'm not saying in your home, I'm saying in football stadiums.

You don't object to CCTV in train carriages so why not CCTV on each terrace?

As a general theme, I do object to the ever expanding surveillance society that we have in this country. That's a seperate issue. However, I would view audio recording as a deeper invasion of privacy than video, which is what would have to be installed to catch racist language at a game.

 

[de g.]

If you'd like to get involved, especially if you're from a BAME background, then let's talk about it...

... do you think racism is present in stadia?
... do you think racism is present online?
.. what can be done among the grassroots to make racists feel uncomfortable?
... how does the club fulfil its promise of 'something has to change' without alienating some fans?

<Unlurk>

Thought I'd briefly stick my head above the parapet for such an important subject. The piece in the Star was superb; intelligent, considered and reflective and put it far more eloquently than I could have done.

Racism is undoubtedly a feature of football stadia, including our own. Whether we like it or not, it is ingrained throughout society, in how people think and act and doesn't just manifest itself in the overt stuff like Didzy and Zaha have had to endure recently, but in how people relate to each other, so-called microaggressions. To take football as an example, no-one would suggest that your typical commentator is racist, yet a study published at the end of last month (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53226508) showed a marked difference between the language used to describe the play and personal characteristics of players with lighter skin tones (intelligence, work ethic) and players with darker skin tones (pace, power, aggression). That simple football cliché is barely noticeable to those of us privileged enough for it not to affect us, but it isn't that much of a leap to suggest a link between language which doesn't recognise black players as intelligent and a lack of black players moving into roles such as management, where intelligence might be seen as a desirable characteristic.

In football, I think your third question needs is the key one - how do we make racists feel uncomfortable? If we acknowledge that racism isn't just in the behaviours of 'others' but forms the structures of society, that means making everyone feel uncomfortable enough and for long enough that it creates a groundswell for change - not just something which will go away if we ignore it, but something which forces people to adjust their view of the world to reflect the fact of racism, both explicit and structural. I doubt there is any kind of silver bullet; I think we need to be looking at a ten year plan for continuous improvement on our own account and explicit commitment to campaign against racial hatred in football and society as a whole. Actions within this plan could include:

• Ongoing, anti-racism activity linked to everything the club does. Take the knee at every game, dedicate advertising time and space to anti-racism messages. Include BLM (or FURD) logos on all player kits/equipment and on replica kits. Design a kit around an anti-racist theme; change the colour scheme on the badge; find a shirt sponsor who will dedicate it to an anti-racism message. Give free tickets to community organisations to support their anti-racism activity.
• Use our clout in as a high profile organisation in the community and our expertise to spread that message. Incorporate it into the community work we do. Develop and deliver training on addressing racism in football for coaches, community football clubs, etc. Add displays about FURD and the contribution of black and ethnic minority players to the blades museum (FURD was started by Blades fans; Arthur Wharton was the first black professional footballer to play top-flight football for us in 1894/95).
• Zero tolerance for racism and racist behaviour not just within the ground but in any and all interactions with the club. Ban anyone found to have engaged in racist behaviour at the ground or in any interaction with the club from the ground until they've undertaken some kind of reconciliation process. Empower teams playing under the Sheffield United name to collectively act by leaving the pitch in response to racist behaviour from opposition players and opposition (or our own) fans. (Although not the main issue here, I'd also extend this to other forms of hatred, particularly around sectarianism and homophobia; the message needs to be that all hatred is unacceptable and not that people should transfer their animus onto another subject).
• Active adoption of measures that increase the participation of black and ethnic minority people throughout and at all levels within the club. Set an ambitious aim that our club broadly reflect the community of the city; if we're proud to call it home, we should be proud to reflect its diversity. Put in place programmes that help to address things at a root level - provide scholarships, internships, sponsor students, etc; be proud to use affirmative action to create opportunities and create a diverse and representative organisation. Publish a plan of how we're going to achieve that aim and have it independently audited, show that we're prepared to be held to account and to act on recommendations. (I've no intention of getting into a debate about the merits or otherwise of affirmative action; if you cannot see that 44 years of the Race Relations Act 1976 has failed to solve the problem then you're part of the problem).
• Require that our larger suppliers and partners take similar steps. We're a big organisation and our making an imperative for those who want to work with us could have significant impacts.
• Work in partnership with those with similar interests. Campaign alongside our porcine neighbours, the Council and others; make it so that people who want to hang on to their prejudices have nowhere to escape.
• Call others out on discriminatory behaviour and attitudes. Have our own house in order absolutely, but then be explicit where others don't meet the standards we would expect of them. Have independent audits of commentary (from BBC, Sky, Radio Sheffield etc) and tell them if they're demonstrating bias in the language of commentary. Be prepared to make enemies by doing what is right.
• Most of all, listen. To black and ethnic minority players, fans, and members of our local community. Don't filter that through our largely white, male, middle class privilege, but hear it as it impacts them and work with them to identify measures that address this.

With regard to the last question, I think the club should be prepared to alienate some fans - in fact, it is a powerful statement to say "if you're unwilling to let go of racist attitudes and behaviours, you're not welcome as part of our Blades family". We've no obligation to pander to those who continue to make our players, our friends, our neighbours and our fellow football fans feel less respected, less valued or less human.

<back to lurking>

 

[FMBlade1]

As a general theme, I do object to the ever expanding surveillance society that we have in this country. That's a seperate issue. However, I would view audio recording as a deeper invasion of privacy than video, which is what would have to be installed to catch racist language at a game.

Appreciate that, but its a small price to pay for what is taking place at a football ground which is private property.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Would you argue against the fact that race crime has risen since the brexit vote?

No

 

[CrookesBlade]

I’ve seen a lot of criticism of Black Lives Matter on here based on figures within the organisation or the behaviour of a minority in the demonstrations. I’ve tried to do my research on this but it doesn’t seem to go beyond lots of unsubstantiated innuendo and McCarthyism in papers like the Mail or from internet conspiracy theorists. Playing the man rather than the ball, so to speak.

That aside you don’t have to align yourselves to the letter with the ‘official’ BLM organisation (if there really is such a thing) to support the overall sentiment and aim, namely to end the systematic oppression of black people.

Take, for example, the EU referendum. I supported Remain but had little time for the official campaign and the figures behind it. Likewise, I know people who voted leave but had no time for Vote Leave or the particularly risible figures involved with Leave.EU.

 

[pommpey]

... do you think racism is present in stadia? Yes. Detectable in this country, but a giant problem in Europe and in particular, Eastern Europe. You have only to look at that abhorrent amount of abuse Sterling received last year to see this. But it is inherently cultural, and I think thankfully with every passing year, it is being washed out of our system and DNA. What it doesn't need however, is intervention from shady Marxist/Anarcist groups whose aims are far from promoting integration and harmony.

... do you think racism is present online? Yes. And the internet provides a comfy conduit to display it. It is a genie which is tremendously difficult to get back inside any bottle

.. what can be done among the grassroots to make racists feel uncomfortable? By ostracising them and preventing their liberty to be involved in football

... how does the club fulfil its promise of 'something has to change' without alienating some fans? By not using gash generalisations like 'something has to change'. What, exactly, has to 'change' and whilst on about change, by how much and for how long? The whole movement against racism is pretty impotent and replete with grandstanding 'activists', pretty large on noise and words but pretty devoid of ideas and actions. There is a massive smorgsbord of issued involved in race relations, from racism itself to enabling (true) equality of opportunity. I do think we need to identify what makes us British and what other cultures invest in that and use that as a starting block. We need to stop actively having 'black' this and 'black' that (because how do Brits of oriental extract, Europeans, Innuits and christ knows how many other identifiable individuals contribute to our identity feel about being left out too?) We also need to stop the permitting of a long, nasty finger being pointed at a particular subset of human existence - the white British male - as the sole purpose of everything wrong in the world because three or four hundred years ago, people who looked like them were utter cunts. We can't change anything if they are the target of that change and that the majority of them are fed up' of taking it in the neck for other's misdemeanors and faults. Some relatives of mine have died in World Wars, but I don't expect any Japanese citizen anywhere to take a knee because the shitheads who ran their nation starved, made a slave and murdered my wife's grandfather. I don't also expect any white British male to get all apologetic for creating a famine in the island of Ireland which decimated my ancestors and stole their land birthrights and legacies. I do expect however that everyone, white, black or whatever, to regard everyone else with dignity and respect and to never regard them as superior or inferior or make them uncomfortable about the skin they stand in. But then again, fat people are funny, aren't they? It's their fault they are so disgusting, wobbly and clumsy ... etc. So are gingers. They smell, for fuck's sake! Bald blokes ... fucking hell ... slapheads, they are so inferior when ranged against people with full heads of hair.

My dad was referred to as a ginger cunt, in the navy and every time I am described, it is 'fat bloke. Bald. Yeah, him.'

Okay, it is acknowledged that racism ... and it isn't just a black thing ... go and ask any worker in a Chinese food outlet or a woman in a veil how they feel about their worth in human existence ... but it is acknowledged that racism is a million times worse. But educating every human to treat every other human with dignity, allowance, acceptance and respect is a fucking tough cookie, moreso when the leader of the planet's biggest economic, political and military hegemony is demonstrably a fucking bigoted, rednecked nazi. But lo - what have I done there? He doesn't see it that way. He's convinced he is right. It's just 'us' who disagree.

How do we fix it? Morgan Freeman is on record saying, 'stop talking about it'. That doesn't mean 'don't do anything about it' - it means, deny these fuckers the oxygen of publicity they crave for their (in my opinion) wholly wrong point of view. For their message to survive, it needs a conduit and that conduit is hatred and that hatred is driven by aligning our differences with what divides us and focusing weak minds on that. I support wholly 'Blades Against Racism', because it is something we can get behind. I'd like to know (aside from racist chanting and online racism) if there is any systemic or institutional racism in the club, mind. I doubt it.

I will not however support the meaningless gesture politics of 'taking the knee' to support a subversive movement like BLM, given what their clear aims are and the fact that when it comes to making black people's lives any better, it is full of empty words like 'something has to be done'. I would also advise against anyone using the black fist as a gesture of unity or solidarity. I am a child of the sixties and it is to me a symbol of Black Power, which is a subversive, supremacist cult, not a very righteous movement to rid the planet of hideous racist discrimination. This is not the 1960s and we are a long way down the road from that dark time in history. If anyone used the swastika or (god forbid) symbols aligning to far right groups like the KKK, there would be a very, very sound case for a backlash. And I would support that.

Finally, while we beat ourselves up over this, I do think we need to never let the spotlight settle on the UK and other western democracies. Racism exists in far greater magnitudes overseas and within 'tribal' groups (for want of a better clumsy word). There is widespread genocide and ethnic cleansing happening RIGHT NOW in other places on this ball of shit that makes George Floyd's brutal murder look pretty insignificant. We need to make that go away too.

pommpey

 

[Steve Mackan]

Alright Steve Mackan
Interesting day you had yesterday I'm guessing.
I strongly support your approach (I'm paraphrasing) - don't get sucked in to the fine detail & definitions - it's Racism we're against. That's the message. Get a rooftop. Shout.
Anyone who doesn't support Black Lives Matter shirt names, BLM shirt logos, players taking the knee and making the Tommie Smith fist salute is now clearly on a different path to the players & the club. Clearly different. That's OK. Grown Ups can have their own views. But, be in no doubt that you're at odds with, not on the same page as, the players & the club (& some of your fellow fans). I welcome the clear lines being etched out. Good luck Sunshine.

Leaving the players to one side. The club are in a very tricky situation because they rely on fans. And they've said it: "something has to change". They've just called out racism. But some of the fans are openly racist. But they've just called out racism so they have to act. But some of the fans display racial biases that should be challenged. But they've just called out racism. But these are paying customers. But they've called it out.

Now, I have nowt to do with the club other than attending matches. I think drawing clear lines helps. Nudge the window. It might not go as far as I'd - or some of the people who agree with our position - would like. But nudge the window along.

 

[Nagima]

My view is that we should do something that highlights the positivity of diversity. We are not all going to agree on what exactly is or is not racist and how we should police it. So let's do some simple things before matches like showing picture or videos on the screen at the ground (when we get back there) that show former players who we hold in high regard. Brian Deane, Marcus Bent, Nathan Blake, Paul McGrath. Vas Borbokis, Alan Kelly etc. Just get the message out there that we value diversity and we respect people from where ever they come from or what colour their skin is.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

... do you think racism is present in stadia? Yes. Detectable in this country, but a giant problem in Europe and in particular, Eastern Europe. You have only to look at that abhorrent amount of abuse Sterling received last year to see this. But it is inherently cultural, and I think thankfully with every passing year, it is being washed out of our system and DNA. What it doesn't need however, is intervention from shady Marxist/Anarcist groups whose aims are far from promoting integration and harmony.

... do you think racism is present online? Yes. And the internet provides a comfy conduit to display it. It is a genie which is tremendously difficult to get back inside any bottle

.. what can be done among the grassroots to make racists feel uncomfortable? By ostracising them and preventing their liberty to be involved in football

... how does the club fulfil its promise of 'something has to change' without alienating some fans? By not using gash generalisations like 'something has to change'. What, exactly, has to 'change' and whilst on about change, by how much and for how long? The whole movement against racism is pretty impotent and replete with grandstanding 'activists', pretty large on noise and words but pretty devoid of ideas and actions. There is a massive smorgsbord of issued involved in race relations, from racism itself to enabling (true) equality of opportunity. I do think we need to identify what makes us British and what other cultures invest in that and use that as a starting block. We need to stop actively having 'black' this and 'black' that (because how do Brits of oriental extract, Europeans, Innuits and christ knows how many other identifiable individuals contribute to our identity feel about being left out too?) We also need to stop the permitting of a long, nasty finger being pointed at a particular subset of human existence - the white British male - as the sole purpose of everything wrong in the world because three or four hundred years ago, people who looked like them were utter cunts. We can't change anything if they are the target of that change and that the majority of them are fed up' of taking it in the neck for other's misdemeanors and faults. Some relatives of mine have died in World Wars, but I don't expect any Japanese citizen anywhere to take a knee because the shitheads who ran their nation starved, made a slave and murdered my wife's grandfather. I don't also expect any white British male to get all apologetic for creating a famine in the island of Ireland which decimated my ancestors and stole their land birthrights and legacies. I do expect however that everyone, white, black or whatever, to regard everyone else with dignity and respect and to never regard them as superior or inferior or make them uncomfortable about the skin they stand in. But then again, fat people are funny, aren't they? It's their fault they are so disgusting, wobbly and clumsy ... etc. So are gingers. They smell, for fuck's sake! Bald blokes ... fucking hell ... slapheads, they are so inferior when ranged against people with full heads of hair.

My dad was referred to as a ginger cunt, in the navy and every time I am described, it is 'fat bloke. Bald. Yeah, him.'

Okay, it is acknowledged that racism ... and it isn't just a black thing ... go and ask any worker in a Chinese food outlet or a woman in a veil how they feel about their worth in human existence ... but it is acknowledged that racism is a million times worse. But educating every human to treat every other human with dignity, allowance, acceptance and respect is a fucking tough cookie, moreso when the leader of the planet's biggest economic, political and military hegemony is demonstrably a fucking bigoted, rednecked nazi. But lo - what have I done there? He doesn't see it that way. He's convinced he is right. It's just 'us' who disagree.

How do we fix it? Morgan Freeman is on record saying, 'stop talking about it'. That doesn't mean 'don't do anything about it' - it means, deny these fuckers the oxygen of publicity they crave for their (in my opinion) wholly wrong point of view. For their message to survive, it needs a conduit and that conduit is hatred and that hatred is driven by aligning our differences with what divides us and focusing weak minds on that. I support wholly 'Blades Against Racism', because it is something we can get behind. I'd like to know (aside from racist chanting and online racism) if there is any systemic or institutional racism in the club, mind. I doubt it.

I will not however support the meaningless gesture politics of 'taking the knee' to support a subversive movement like BLM, given what their clear aims are and the fact that when it comes to making black people's lives any better, it is full of empty words like 'something has to be done'. I would also advise against anyone using the black fist as a gesture of unity or solidarity. I am a child of the sixties and it is to me a symbol of Black Power, which is a subversive, supremacist cult, not a very righteous movement to rid the planet of hideous racist discrimination. This is not the 1960s and we are a long way down the road from that dark time in history. If anyone used the swastika or (god forbid) symbols aligning to far right groups like the KKK, there would be a very, very sound case for a backlash. And I would support that.

Finally, while we beat ourselves up over this, I do think we need to never let the spotlight settle on the UK and other western democracies. Racism exists in far greater magnitudes overseas and within 'tribal' groups (for want of a better clumsy word). There is widespread genocide and ethnic cleansing happening RIGHT NOW in other places on this ball of shit that makes George Floyd's brutal murder look pretty insignificant. We need to make that go away too.

pommpey

I can only say .... I'm a child of the 50s, not 60s. I asked my Dad why pictures of Tommie Smith & John Carlos were in the newspapers, black gloves on raised fists, on the medal podium, at The Olympics. The only mouth I want to put words in is my own. I do not feel threatened, intimidated by it. I do not view it as subversive, or supremacist, or a cult. The West Indies Cricket team repeated the gesture. Gloves and all. At the Test in Southampton last week. Many Black football players are repeating the Tommie Smith salute at kick offs the length & breadth of the country. It means what it means - today, in the moment, I'm doing it. But, natch, if you see it differently, so be it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

<Unlurk>

Thought I'd briefly stick my head above the parapet for such an important subject. The piece in the Star was superb; intelligent, considered and reflective and put it far more eloquently than I could have done.

Racism is undoubtedly a feature of football stadia, including our own. Whether we like it or not, it is ingrained throughout society, in how people think and act and doesn't just manifest itself in the overt stuff like Didzy and Zaha have had to endure recently, but in how people relate to each other, so-called microaggressions. To take football as an example, no-one would suggest that your typical commentator is racist, yet a study published at the end of last month (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53226508) showed a marked difference between the language used to describe the play and personal characteristics of players with lighter skin tones (intelligence, work ethic) and players with darker skin tones (pace, power, aggression). That simple football cliché is barely noticeable to those of us privileged enough for it not to affect us, but it isn't that much of a leap to suggest a link between language which doesn't recognise black players as intelligent and a lack of black players moving into roles such as management, where intelligence might be seen as a desirable characteristic.

In football, I think your third question needs is the key one - how do we make racists feel uncomfortable? If we acknowledge that racism isn't just in the behaviours of 'others' but forms the structures of society, that means making everyone feel uncomfortable enough and for long enough that it creates a groundswell for change - not just something which will go away if we ignore it, but something which forces people to adjust their view of the world to reflect the fact of racism, both explicit and structural. I doubt there is any kind of silver bullet; I think we need to be looking at a ten year plan for continuous improvement on our own account and explicit commitment to campaign against racial hatred in football and society as a whole. Actions within this plan could include:

• Ongoing, anti-racism activity linked to everything the club does. Take the knee at every game, dedicate advertising time and space to anti-racism messages. Include BLM (or FURD) logos on all player kits/equipment and on replica kits. Design a kit around an anti-racist theme; change the colour scheme on the badge; find a shirt sponsor who will dedicate it to an anti-racism message. Give free tickets to community organisations to support their anti-racism activity.
• Use our clout in as a high profile organisation in the community and our expertise to spread that message. Incorporate it into the community work we do. Develop and deliver training on addressing racism in football for coaches, community football clubs, etc. Add displays about FURD and the contribution of black and ethnic minority players to the blades museum (FURD was started by Blades fans; Arthur Wharton was the first black professional footballer to play top-flight football for us in 1894/95).
• Zero tolerance for racism and racist behaviour not just within the ground but in any and all interactions with the club. Ban anyone found to have engaged in racist behaviour at the ground or in any interaction with the club from the ground until they've undertaken some kind of reconciliation process. Empower teams playing under the Sheffield United name to collectively act by leaving the pitch in response to racist behaviour from opposition players and opposition (or our own) fans. (Although not the main issue here, I'd also extend this to other forms of hatred, particularly around sectarianism and homophobia; the message needs to be that all hatred is unacceptable and not that people should transfer their animus onto another subject).
• Active adoption of measures that increase the participation of black and ethnic minority people throughout and at all levels within the club. Set an ambitious aim that our club broadly reflect the community of the city; if we're proud to call it home, we should be proud to reflect its diversity. Put in place programmes that help to address things at a root level - provide scholarships, internships, sponsor students, etc; be proud to use affirmative action to create opportunities and create a diverse and representative organisation. Publish a plan of how we're going to achieve that aim and have it independently audited, show that we're prepared to be held to account and to act on recommendations. (I've no intention of getting into a debate about the merits or otherwise of affirmative action; if you cannot see that 44 years of the Race Relations Act 1976 has failed to solve the problem then you're part of the problem).
• Require that our larger suppliers and partners take similar steps. We're a big organisation and our making an imperative for those who want to work with us could have significant impacts.
• Work in partnership with those with similar interests. Campaign alongside our porcine neighbours, the Council and others; make it so that people who want to hang on to their prejudices have nowhere to escape.
• Call others out on discriminatory behaviour and attitudes. Have our own house in order absolutely, but then be explicit where others don't meet the standards we would expect of them. Have independent audits of commentary (from BBC, Sky, Radio Sheffield etc) and tell them if they're demonstrating bias in the language of commentary. Be prepared to make enemies by doing what is right.
• Most of all, listen. To black and ethnic minority players, fans, and members of our local community. Don't filter that through our largely white, male, middle class privilege, but hear it as it impacts them and work with them to identify measures that address this.

With regard to the last question, I think the club should be prepared to alienate some fans - in fact, it is a powerful statement to say "if you're unwilling to let go of racist attitudes and behaviours, you're not welcome as part of our Blades family". We've no obligation to pander to those who continue to make our players, our friends, our neighbours and our fellow football fans feel less respected, less valued or less human.

<back to lurking>

“Most of all, listen. To black and ethnic minority players, fans, and members of our local community. Don't filter that through our largely white, male, middle class privilege, but hear it as it impacts them and work with them to identify measures that address this”


My opening shot was let’s listen to our BAME supporters and community. Before WE chime up.

I managed to do it - l hope- without politicising it such as with your “white middle class privilege“ comment. The subject matter is how racism affects people, not a finger pointing exercise from left or right.

 

[Sean Thornton]

My view is that we should do something that highlights the positivity of diversity. We are not all going to agree on what exactly is or is not racist and how we should police it. So let's do some simple things before matches like showing picture or videos on the screen at the ground (when we get back there) that show former players who we hold in high regard. Brian Deane, Marcus Bent, Nathan Blake, Paul McGrath. Vas Borbokis, Alan Kelly etc. Just get the message out there that we value diversity and we respect people from where ever they come from or what colour their skin is.

Decent idea but here we’re on about people, not heroes. Didsy is racially abused as a black man, not a footballer, irrespective of him scoring goals causing it. PL footballers are an easy target because of their celebrity. Are they an easier target than the BAME family or individual on estates throughout the country.

Black celebrities are needed to bring the problem to the masses. People will listen. Not the out and out racists who are foaming at the mouth more than ever, but if it educates the young, good.

 

[S6 Blade]

Massive response to this so far with over 300 of the badges ordered already. Great stuff

 

[de g.]

“Most of all, listen. To black and ethnic minority players, fans, and members of our local community. Don't filter that through our largely white, male, middle class privilege, but hear it as it impacts them and work with them to identify measures that address this”


My opening shot was let’s listen to our BAME supporters and community. Before WE chime up.

I managed to do it - l hope- without politicising it such as with your “white middle class privilege“ comment. The subject matter is how racism affects people, not a finger pointing exercise from left or right.

It's not a finger pointing exercise of any kind, not is it linking it to any point on the political spectrum. When I respond to what I hear from anyone, unless I'm careful I cannot help but filter what I hear in a way that takes account of my own beliefs, prejudices and experiences, and this means what I hear is not necessarily what I'm being told. It's largely a fact of life that most people involved in leading organisations in the UK are white and well-educated, and therefore it is inevitable that what they hear will be through that filter.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It's not a finger pointing exercise of any kind, not is it linking it to any point on the political spectrum. When I respond to what I hear from anyone, unless I'm careful I cannot help but filter what I hear in a way that takes account of my own beliefs, prejudices and experiences, and this means what I hear is not necessarily what I'm being told. It's largely a fact of life that most people involved in leading organisations in the UK are white and well-educated, and therefore it is inevitable that what they hear will be through that filter.

The minds that really have to be changed aren’t the privileged white middle class you mentioned, it’s the large numbers of working classes - often with little privilege- who through ignorance or whatever hold racist opinions at times, if not all the times. The more “white privilege” comments they hear arent going to begin to change their minds.

It’s as if every community is identified by some generic character that only those theorising recognise.

If you’re filtering out stuff simply because you don’t like it, you can’t see the bigger picture.

 

[true99blade]

Thought it was very rarely apparent that parts of our support were racist or racist sympathisers. After reading this thread it’s obviously far more apparent than I thought. Its pretty sickening that some turn a blind eye to such an abhorrent issue or “don’t support” a show of solidarity such as taking the knee. I mean ffs.

 

[pommpey]

I can only say .... I'm a child of the 50s, not 60s. I asked my Dad why pictures of Tommie Smith & John Carlos were in the newspapers, black gloves on raised fists, on the medal podium, at The Olympics. The only mouth I want to put words in is my own. I do not feel threatened, intimidated by it. I do not view it as subversive, or supremacist, or a cult. The West Indies Cricket team repeated the gesture. Gloves and all. At the Test in Southampton last week. Many Black football players are repeating the Tommie Smith salute at kick offs the length & breadth of the country. It means what it means - today, in the moment, I'm doing it. But, natch, if you see it differently, so be it.

I'm not taking anything away from the roots of the civil rights movement and it's extraordinarily noble mission to end Jim Crow for good and move America along from it's Confederatist past. It was a fucking moment for human existence to bookmark and for every right reason.

However, Black Power became of this, a insidious, divisive and ultimately wrong mission to carry the fight on to an ultimate and bloody end. Smith and Carlos's symbol became the black glove (yeah, we saw it Anthony Joshua) and that has a totally different morality. Taking the knee and raising the fist and using the fist as a symbol to me is as threatening as wearing the hood and burning the cross.

And it needs to fucking well stop, right now.

pommpey

 

[de g.]

The minds that really have to be changed aren’t the privileged white middle class you mentioned, it’s the large numbers of working classes - often with little privilege- who through ignorance or whatever hold racist opinions at times, if not all the times. The more “white privilege” comments they hear arent going to begin to change their minds.

It’s as if every community is identified by some generic character that only those theorising recognise.

If you’re filtering out stuff simply because you don’t like it, you can’t see the bigger picture.

Are you really trying to get into a debate about the nuances of privilege and intersectionality? Is this topic not above that? I was responding to how the club should approach things, and for the most part those in senior positions within the organisation are not working classes with little privilege.

People filter what they hear. It isn't by choice; it is human nature. I don't, and can't, know what it is like to grow up as a black man because I'm not, and if someone describes their experiences of growing up as a black man to me I cannot help but filter what I hear through my own experiences and understanding of the world. The challenge for me is to recognise that I do that and to try and hear it and respond to it without that filter.

Any other interpretation you want to put on what I wrote is your own projection.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I've heard racism from people I used to class as close friends and I didn't say anything. It'd never be directed to an individual but some of the stuff said was pretty dispicable. I'd like to think I would now. I'm going to try to teach my son how to tackle it.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'm not taking anything away from the roots of the civil rights movement and it's extraordinarily noble mission to end Jim Crow for good and move America along from it's Confederatist past. It was a fucking moment for human existence to bookmark and for every right reason.

However, Black Power became of this, a insidious, divisive and ultimately wrong mission to carry the fight on to an ultimate and bloody end. Smith and Carlos's symbol became the black glove (yeah, we saw it Anthony Joshua) and that has a totally different morality. Taking the knee and raising the fist and using the fist as a symbol to me is as threatening as wearing the hood and burning the cross.

And it needs to fucking well stop, right now.

pommpey

I hear you. But, it needs to fucking well continue right now. The SUFC players are OK with it. The West Indies Cricket team are OK with it. I'm OK with it. You're out of step. Which is fine. You're allowed to be. But, you can see. Today. Your club. Your players. You're out of step. I'm happy for you to bring your argument to me. But, really, you need to take it to Raheem, Didzy & the remarkable Jason Holder.

 

[pommpey]

Thought it was very rarely apparent that parts of our support were racist or racist sympathisers. After reading this thread it’s obviously far more apparent than I thought. Its pretty sickening that some turn a blind eye to such an abhorrent issue or “don’t support” a show of solidarity such as taking the knee. I mean ffs.

Taking the knee is a direct correlation to Black Lives Matter. Whilst that name itself conjures up a great hail of trumpets, the three words are pretty vacuous, meaningless and have no 'flash to bang'. Hence central London getting pulped.

I don't understand what people taking the knee is meant to achieve. Are Alf Garnet 'fackin' c--ns' bastards suddenly meant to bring about their bigotry and dyed in racism and suddenly realise what they are about? You'd like to think so, but the realism is nowhere near. If anything, it will marginalise and embitter even more. The whole black fist in the air business isn't cutting too much of a dash with me either. It's relating to an even more divisive movment than BLM. Badges on strips, let's kick out racism on hoardings and banners. It's powderpuff nonsense. It skips off the hardened armour of bigots and haters and makes them more resolute. It's simply 'name calling by another name'

However, get active and deny these bastards their freedoms and rights and they suffer. Find them in the ground, camera them, root them out and ban them for life ... shut down their communications and if needed, create legislation which ends in a custodial sentence and you are some way onto a winner, but like most things such as your young men ending up in drug gang warfare and stabbed, all of this starts at home. People aren't born racist - or gangsters. They hear these phrases and adopt these viewpoints from an early age. It's a family, cultural seed which grows the monster triffid. And that is 'something has to be done' outside the club's balliwick.

pommpey

 

[Steve Mackan]

<Unlurk>

Thought I'd briefly stick my head above the parapet for such an important subject. The piece in the Star was superb; intelligent, considered and reflective and put it far more eloquently than I could have done.

Racism is undoubtedly a feature of football stadia, including our own. Whether we like it or not, it is ingrained throughout society, in how people think and act and doesn't just manifest itself in the overt stuff like Didzy and Zaha have had to endure recently, but in how people relate to each other, so-called microaggressions. To take football as an example, no-one would suggest that your typical commentator is racist, yet a study published at the end of last month (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53226508) showed a marked difference between the language used to describe the play and personal characteristics of players with lighter skin tones (intelligence, work ethic) and players with darker skin tones (pace, power, aggression). That simple football cliché is barely noticeable to those of us privileged enough for it not to affect us, but it isn't that much of a leap to suggest a link between language which doesn't recognise black players as intelligent and a lack of black players moving into roles such as management, where intelligence might be seen as a desirable characteristic.

In football, I think your third question needs is the key one - how do we make racists feel uncomfortable? If we acknowledge that racism isn't just in the behaviours of 'others' but forms the structures of society, that means making everyone feel uncomfortable enough and for long enough that it creates a groundswell for change - not just something which will go away if we ignore it, but something which forces people to adjust their view of the world to reflect the fact of racism, both explicit and structural. I doubt there is any kind of silver bullet; I think we need to be looking at a ten year plan for continuous improvement on our own account and explicit commitment to campaign against racial hatred in football and society as a whole. Actions within this plan could include:

• Ongoing, anti-racism activity linked to everything the club does. Take the knee at every game, dedicate advertising time and space to anti-racism messages. Include BLM (or FURD) logos on all player kits/equipment and on replica kits. Design a kit around an anti-racist theme; change the colour scheme on the badge; find a shirt sponsor who will dedicate it to an anti-racism message. Give free tickets to community organisations to support their anti-racism activity.
• Use our clout in as a high profile organisation in the community and our expertise to spread that message. Incorporate it into the community work we do. Develop and deliver training on addressing racism in football for coaches, community football clubs, etc. Add displays about FURD and the contribution of black and ethnic minority players to the blades museum (FURD was started by Blades fans; Arthur Wharton was the first black professional footballer to play top-flight football for us in 1894/95).
• Zero tolerance for racism and racist behaviour not just within the ground but in any and all interactions with the club. Ban anyone found to have engaged in racist behaviour at the ground or in any interaction with the club from the ground until they've undertaken some kind of reconciliation process. Empower teams playing under the Sheffield United name to collectively act by leaving the pitch in response to racist behaviour from opposition players and opposition (or our own) fans. (Although not the main issue here, I'd also extend this to other forms of hatred, particularly around sectarianism and homophobia; the message needs to be that all hatred is unacceptable and not that people should transfer their animus onto another subject).
• Active adoption of measures that increase the participation of black and ethnic minority people throughout and at all levels within the club. Set an ambitious aim that our club broadly reflect the community of the city; if we're proud to call it home, we should be proud to reflect its diversity. Put in place programmes that help to address things at a root level - provide scholarships, internships, sponsor students, etc; be proud to use affirmative action to create opportunities and create a diverse and representative organisation. Publish a plan of how we're going to achieve that aim and have it independently audited, show that we're prepared to be held to account and to act on recommendations. (I've no intention of getting into a debate about the merits or otherwise of affirmative action; if you cannot see that 44 years of the Race Relations Act 1976 has failed to solve the problem then you're part of the problem).
• Require that our larger suppliers and partners take similar steps. We're a big organisation and our making an imperative for those who want to work with us could have significant impacts.
• Work in partnership with those with similar interests. Campaign alongside our porcine neighbours, the Council and others; make it so that people who want to hang on to their prejudices have nowhere to escape.
• Call others out on discriminatory behaviour and attitudes. Have our own house in order absolutely, but then be explicit where others don't meet the standards we would expect of them. Have independent audits of commentary (from BBC, Sky, Radio Sheffield etc) and tell them if they're demonstrating bias in the language of commentary. Be prepared to make enemies by doing what is right.
• Most of all, listen. To black and ethnic minority players, fans, and members of our local community. Don't filter that through our largely white, male, middle class privilege, but hear it as it impacts them and work with them to identify measures that address this.

With regard to the last question, I think the club should be prepared to alienate some fans - in fact, it is a powerful statement to say "if you're unwilling to let go of racist attitudes and behaviours, you're not welcome as part of our Blades family". We've no obligation to pander to those who continue to make our players, our friends, our neighbours and our fellow football fans feel less respected, less valued or less human.

<back to lurking>

It'd be good to chat about some of things you've raised here in more detail. There's some really points here, both for BAR, but also some of the work I do with Kick It Out. If you'd like to, drop me an email hello @ demblades.co.uk

 

[Steve Mackan]

Massive response to this so far with over 300 of the badges ordered already. Great stuff

We're almost out. I make that almost 500 in 7.5 hours.

 

[pommpey]

I hear you. But, it needs to fucking well continue right now. The SUFC players are OK with it. The West Indies Cricket team are OK with it. I'm OK with it. You're out of step. Which is fine. You're allowed to be. But, you can see. Today. Your club. Your players. You're out of step. I'm happy for you to bring your argument to me. But, really, you need to take it to Raheem, Didzy & the remarkable Jason Holder.

Am I out of step?

Black Lives Matter?

I certainly don't want an end to capitalism. Neither do you. Neither does Didsy, or Sterling, or anyone. I certainly don't want our police force dismantled, regardless of any illustrated misdemeanours (which pale into almost vanishing significance when compared to normal, ordinary-day racism in any factory, shop, pub, club or street)

I don't buy this 'distanced themselves from' the aims of BLM. They've made it clear what they want. Kneeling on the grass and raising a fist with their badge on your arm means you want all of that, not an end to racism.

pommpey

 

[true99blade]

Taking the knee is a direct correlation to Black Lives Matter. Whilst that name itself conjures up a great hail of trumpets, the three words are pretty vacuous, meaningless and have no 'flash to bang'. Hence central London getting pulped.

I don't understand what people taking the knee is meant to achieve. Are Alf Garnet 'fackin' c--ns' bastards suddenly meant to bring about their bigotry and dyed in racism and suddenly realise what they are about? You'd like to think so, but the realism is nowhere near. If anything, it will marginalise and embitter even more. The whole black fist in the air business isn't cutting too much of a dash with me either. It's relating to an even more divisive movment than BLM. Badges on strips, let's kick out racism on hoardings and banners. It's powderpuff nonsense. It skips off the hardened armour of bigots and haters and makes them more resolute. It's simply 'name calling by another name'

However, get active and deny these bastards their freedoms and rights and they suffer. Find them in the ground, camera them, root them out and ban them for life ... shut down their communications and if needed, create legislation which ends in a custodial sentence and you are some way onto a winner, but like most things such as your young men ending up in drug gang warfare and stabbed, all of this starts at home. People aren't born racist. They hear these phrases and adopt these viewpoints from an early age. It's a family, cultural seed which grows the monster triffid. And that is 'something has to be done' outside the club's balliwick.

pommpey

The whole point of taking the knee is a show of solidarity with BLM. I don’t think Didsy suggested it prior to the Villa game because he thought ‘this is it, this will solve everything’. Nobody suggested it is anything more than solidarity, and hiding behind saying that it doesn’t achieve anything says more about you than the gesture itself. Nobody is forcing you to join in, but it baffles me that a group of blokes on a football pitch taking a knee is something to moan about.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Am I out of step?

Black Lives Matter?

I certainly don't want an end to capitalism. Neither do you. Neither does Didsy, or Sterling, or anyone. I certainly don't want our police force dismantled, regardless of any illustrated misdemeanours (which pale into almost vanishing significance when compared to normal, ordinary-day racism in any factory, shop, pub, club or street)

I don't buy this 'distanced themselves from' the aims of BLM. They've made it clear what they want. Kneeling on the grass and raising a fist with their badge on your arm means you want all of that, not an end to racism.

pommpey

It doesn't need that sort of forensics. You don't want the Tommie Smith salute. The players are happy to use it. You're out of step with that. You're perfectly entitled to be. But, out of step is what that is. Embrace your out of steppedness.

 

[Barney]

A lot of the online racism that's similar to what McGoldrick experienced are just sad trolls that do it because they think it's funny - they know it will get a reaction, and are hidden by a veil of anonymity. No amount of education on racism will ever stop stuff like this happening. If anything, the more attention it gets, the more these sorts of people will do it.

We saw this with the Bulgaria fans during the England match. I remember there was a lot of headlines before the game surrounding a fear that their fans will racially abuse England players. I think a lot of those fans then went on to do it because they knew people were fearful of it, and that it would get nationwide/worldwide coverage if they did. Basically, the racists are often sad attention seeking wankers.