Ben Mee

[Frank the tank]

Again if you can explain to me how Burrows and Seriki aren't more suited to playing WB than FB then I'm all ears?

People seem to think wing backs don't have to defend
It's as important as it is for a conventional full back
It takes a real understanding of when to get back and when to attack and tactically it's very easy to pin teams back if you just push your wingers up high

 

[JD88]

Again if you can explain to me how Burrows and Seriki aren't more suited to playing WB than FB then I'm all ears?

Burrows has played wing back less than 10 times in what must be around 150 career games. For the majority of last season, his first above league 1, he was very good in the main playing as left back. WB is different to FB. Burrows to be at his best going forward needs a partnership in front of him (See hamer last year drifting inside and dragging players with him), you don't get that as a WB, it would also expose more defensively, and the only real option for LCB is Ben Mee who you would want playing in the middle and not getting dragged out wide.

I have seen Seriki play wing back once under Hecky and he got slaughtered, albeit a few years back. Last year, playing in a 4, for the majority of his game time did well, taking into account he is a young kid learning his trade. He can and will improve and may one day progress into playing WB. Currently the evidence he can do that role is absent and people are guessing saying he can.

 

[TJ blade]

When’s Ings back?

February

 

[Balham]

People seem to think wing backs don't have to defend
It's as important as it is for a conventional full back
It takes a real understanding of when to get back and when to attack and tactically it's very easy to pin teams back if you just push your wingers up high

Exactly what happened in the tail end of 2019/20 and throughout 2020/21. Teams figured out that the overlapping centre half tactic was only possible because we shuttled the ball quickly through Norwood to an advanced wingback. Simple counter to that: push the wide forwards up to pin the wingbacks in and shut Norwood down quickly. My biggest concern with Wilder is that he didn't react to that and he didn't react to sides counteracting the 4-2-3-1 last season; he shows next to no tactical flexibility.

 

[Frank the tank]

Exactly what happened in the tail end of 2019/20 and throughout 2020/21. Teams figured out that the overlapping centre half tactic was only possible because we shuttled the ball quickly through Norwood to an advanced wingback. Simple counter to that: push the wide forwards up to pin the wingbacks in and shut Norwood down quickly. My biggest concern with Wilder is that he didn't react to that and he didn't react to sides counteracting the 4-2-3-1 last season; he shows next to no tactical flexibility.

Yeah exactly it just becomes a rigid back 5 and you get swamped in your own half and very easy to defend against as counter attacks are virtually impossible
So it goes long and it comes back until you concede

 

[KMC-1889]

Burrows has played wing back less than 10 times in what must be around 150 career games. For the majority of last season, his first above league 1, he was very good in the main playing as left back. WB is different to FB. Burrows to be at his best going forward needs a partnership in front of him (See hamer last year drifting inside and dragging players with him), you don't get that as a WB, it would also expose more defensively, and the only real option for LCB is Ben Mee who you would want playing in the middle and not getting dragged out wide.

I have seen Seriki play wing back once under Hecky and he got slaughtered, albeit a few years back. Last year, playing in a 4, for the majority of his game time did well, taking into account he is a young kid learning his trade. He can and will improve and may one day progress into playing WB. Currently the evidence he can do that role is absent and people are guessing saying he can.

Most modern coaches will ‘invert’ a full back into the centre of defence when in possession to form a back three, which allows the opposite full back to form part of an attacking five and create an overlap. You could do this with United but you would have to play Burrows OR Seriki, not both.

The other issue is that our manager would write something like this off as fancy dan tippy tappy football and tell us they just need to run around a bit and make the shirt lighter or some other bollocks.

 

[KMC-1889]

It’d look something like this (using the lineup from the last game). If we had players fit enough Burrows and Ogbene could even drop into a five at the back. I don’t agree that a 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for the players we have but wilder is nothing if not stubborn.

 

[Railway Blade]

That's the team and how we played against Charlton and created nothing.

 

[KMC-1889]

That's the team and how we played against Charlton and created nothing.

Which is why arguing about formation/line up isn’t the whole discussion.

If the players are coached into risk averse, safety first football then every game will look like Charlton, regardless of who starts and where.

 

[Railway Blade]

Which is why arguing about formation/line up isn’t the whole discussion.

If the players are coached into risk averse, safety first football then every game will look like Charlton, regardless of who starts and where.

Not sure they are being coached into being risk averse but I agree the build up is slow and hesitant and movement off the ball is totally lacking.
I'm guessing that's a confidence issue.

My team wouldn't be much different to yours. I would probably have two different. I would drop O'Hare and bring Soumare into the middle and play with three in the middle as I think Oxford will be big and physical. If fit I would bring in Mee for McGuiness because I think we need his experience, leadership and organisation.

 

[JD88]

It’d look something like this (using the lineup from the last game). If we had players fit enough Burrows and Ogbene could even drop into a five at the back. I don’t agree that a 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for the players we have but wilder is nothing if not stubborn.

View attachment 222629

View attachment 222630

Understand that and they tried a variant of this last year when a midfielder would drop and both full backs would go. Theres a few days to do it, but as I have said elsewhere if movement is 0 and players aren't making forward runs etc formations and shapes are utterly irrelevant

 

[Frank the tank]

Most modern coaches will ‘invert’ a full back into the centre of defence when in possession to form a back three, which allows the opposite full back to form part of an attacking five and create an overlap. You could do this with United but you would have to play Burrows OR Seriki, not both.

The other issue is that our manager would write something like this off as fancy dan tippy tappy football and tell us they just need to run around a bit and make the shirt lighter or some other bollocks.

Not really that's how we set up last season and now with Godfrey as the inverted right back

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Which is why arguing about formation/line up isn’t the whole discussion.

If the players are coached into risk averse, safety first football then every game will look like Charlton, regardless of who starts and where.

It also forces us into this madness of having to push an extra man to support the attacking player on the wing so they can play 1-2's or turn back time and again.

The slow build up is a double negative. We aren't hurting teams quick and then we get caught by pushing support players too high for too long.

Burrows mentioned above is a prime example. He has previously scored and got great assists with fast attacks down the wing and / or cutting in from the wing and sending in cross shots. We don't see that now. Don't understand why.