beattie

[beechblade]

The best morale booster for any squad is results and performances.

As much as I think BT is a great guy to have around, the rest of the lads are young lads who will have a good crack anyway. So I ask again, do we need another great guy or do we need another young, fit, hungry, pacy lad who has bags to prove.

More experience wouldn't go a miss in the side.

Simmo, Cressy, Doyle, Monty, Porter and Collins have great experience but next that, the majority of our squad are really young, Quinny himself is only 25, but has a good experience, the rest of the fit playing squad are all ranging from 17-23, it's good but more experience wouldn't hurt one bit, neither would more young hungry players, so in my opinion there's always room for both.

If Beattie does comes he'll be on a permanent deal, I'd rather have that than a 3 month loan of a young striker which is our only option till January. And lets face it we really could really do we another striker before January, don't forget Tonne and Philliskirk are actually midfielders, trying to learn a new trade.

 

[Darren]

Darren - do you know the stats for the 08/09 (or the whole of Beattie's era) for goals scored by other players when: a) BT was in the team and b) when he did not play?

I can do you for 08-09

League Scorers when JB was in the team

Beattie 12
Quinn 5
Speed 2
Henderson, Sharp, Ehiogu, Kilgallon, Spring, Howard, Morgan, Dyer, Webber 1 each

League games with JB not in the team

Henderson 5
Halford, Cotterill 4
Sharp, Webber 3
Quinn, Ward, Lupoli 2
Speed, Bromby, Morgan, Naughton, C. Beattie, O'Toole, Howard 1 each

 

[Ollessendro]

I'd engage, but the thin veil between sincerity and irony means that any potential discussion is futile.

you're beaten essentially. Too weak to mount an argument. Maybe it is better that you bow to my superior intelligence .... that way we will not have you 'flouncing' out of the forum again and going AWOL for a few months .....

I can do you for 08-09

League Scorers when JB was in the team

Beattie 12
Quinn 5
Speed 2
Henderson, Sharp, Ehiogu, Kilgallon, Spring, Howard, Morgan, Dyer, Webber 1 each

League games with JB not in the team

Henderson 5
Halford, Cotterill 4
Sharp, Webber 3
Quinn, Ward, Lupoli 2
Speed, Bromby, Morgan, Naughton, C. Beattie, O'Toole, Howard 1 each

With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

With Beattie not in the team the rest (taking away the highest scorer Henderson to control for their being a striker in the team) scored 29 goals.

Just more evidence to back up my theory that he was a selfish player and we played better as a team without him.

 

[Pedro Verde]

When you start swearing and getting insultive you lose the argument owd spage. But to responde to your comment Peddy last season just proves that Beattie's career is finished. Unless someone is stupid enough to offer him a lucrative last contract .......

A little touchy I think I have not lost any argument and havent insulted you, just my opinion you are talking bollocks in this thread

Sheffields favourite unfit has (never) been
overweight, unfit, big time Charlie arrive
we are paying an overated, chubby, prima donna



he is a selfish, lazy, individual player. The age old example about when he ran back and made a tackle in that cup game I remember the incident well: It was a token effort and the only bit of hard work he put in in a red and white shirt.

I think the only person in this thread that is being insulting is yourself. Looking at the above insults you are throwing around you obviuosly dislike Beattie greatly and this obviously clouds your judgement


I think if I took a straw poll of people who posted in this thread the majority would want BT to sign as long as he was on reasonable wages and was fit

 

[Houso]

you're beaten essentially. Too weak to mount an argument. Maybe it is better that you bow to my superior intelligence .... that way we will not have you 'flouncing' out of the forum again and going AWOL for a few months .....

Could be worse. I could always complain that people are picking on me and get a persecution complex that every disagreeable post is essentially an attack on me.

But yep, you win.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So I ask again, do we need another great guy or do we need another young, fit, hungry, pacy lad who has bags to prove.

We need both.

 

[Ollessendro]

I think the only person in this thread that is being insulting is yourself. Looking at the above insults you are throwing around you obviuosly dislike Beattie greatly and this obviously clouds your judgement


I think if I took a straw poll of people who posted in this thread the majority would want BT to sign as long as he was on reasonable wages and was fit

I think my argument is pretty clear and backed up by facts. Why don't you come back to me on those Verdy? We were a better team without BT, that scored more goals, won more games and the rest of the team played better and scored more goals.

 

[Trafford]

Just to be clear on the "facts", were there the same number of games when Beattie played as when he didn't? And was the opposition comparable? If not the goals with / without him is anecdotal evidence at best.

My own take was that he was a class above our other players at the time. Only thing that matters to me is whether he still is.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I think my argument is pretty clear and backed up by facts. Why don't you come back to me on those Verdy? We were a better team without BT, that scored more goals, won more games and the rest of the team played better and scored more goals.

We probably also won more games when Monty got a chewie off his missus in the morning.

 

[SwissBlade]

We need both.

I don't think that we do.

Sure we need plenty of strikers to give us options, but at this level we are doing ok so far, so why bring in another player whom we have two others in the profile when what we really need is a pacy lad to compliment what we already have

 

[beechblade]

I don't think that we do.

Sure we need plenty of strikers to give us options, but at this level we are doing ok so far, so why bring in another player whom we have two others in the profile when what we really need is a pacy lad to compliment what we already have

Ok then these are the actual options as they present themselves, so what would you have a permanent striker now with experience, or a young hungry 3 month loan striker?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

you're beaten essentially. Too weak to mount an argument. Maybe it is better that you bow to my superior intelligence .... that way we will not have you 'flouncing' out of the forum again and going AWOL for a few months .....



With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

With Beattie not in the team the rest (taking away the highest scorer Henderson to control for their being a striker in the team) scored 29 goals.

Just more evidence to back up my theory that he was a selfish player and we played better as a team without him.

Nothing to do with him being selfish (And for my money he wasn't a selfish player), but everything to do with the team focussing their efforts through him. He became the focal point of our attack through poor management of the team in my opinion.

 

[SwissBlade]

Ok then these are the actual options as they present themselves, so what would you have a permanent striker now with experience, or a young hungry 3 month loan striker?

Good question. I'd look at someone young on loan now, but not in the same way that we took Vokes on, get someone who is fit, but just not making their first team at their current club. I don't have any names though.

BT could well take until Christmas to get fully fit, if we rush him into the team then he could also pick up niggling injuries, like Ched.

And also, whats to say that BT would be available on a permanent deal? I'm sure there is something to do with his registration being at Rangers that may prevent a permanent deal

 

[beechblade]

Good question. I'd look at someone young on loan now, but not in the same way that we took Vokes on, get someone who is fit, but just not making their first team at their current club. I don't have any names though.

BT could well take until Christmas to get fully fit, if we rush him into the team then he could also pick up niggling injuries, like Ched.

And also, whats to say that BT would be available on a permanent deal? I'm sure there is something to do with his registration being at Rangers that may prevent a permanent deal

Isn't that if he was registered by the end of the transfer window and then realised. I think if they're realised before... as Beattie was.... then they're available.

And to the loans I hope we use them for what they are for, emergency use. Does anyone actually know if Beattie is fit or not? How much of Rangers preseason was he training for?

 

[stannyblade]

Good question. I'd look at someone young on loan now, but not in the same way that we took Vokes on, get someone who is fit, but just not making their first team at their current club. I don't have any names though.

BT could well take until Christmas to get fully fit, if we rush him into the team then he could also pick up niggling injuries, like Ched.

And also, whats to say that BT would be available on a permanent deal? I'm sure there is something to do with his registration being at Rangers that may prevent a permanent deal

If that is the case then surely United would come out and say so. If they cant sign him until jan then let him train with us to get him fit and get someone in till then.

 

[SwissBlade]

Isn't that if he was registered by the end of the transfer window and then realised. I think if they're realised before... as Beattie was.... then they're available.

And to the loans I hope we use them for what they are for, emergency use. Does anyone actually know if Beattie is fit or not? How much of Rangers preseason was he training for?

Not a clue on the registration

Good point about the preseason... It'll be interesting to find out

 

[Bladesman]

Isn't that if he was registered by the end of the transfer window and then realised. I think if they're realised before... as Beattie was.... then they're available.

And to the loans I hope we use them for what they are for, emergency use. Does anyone actually know if Beattie is fit or not? How much of Rangers preseason was he training for?

Exactly once again we are talking about getting more loan players and I agree that we need to hope we are signing a relatively fit James Beattie.

Anyway obviously getting loan players worked so well last season just look where we are now.

 

[stannyblade]

Exactly once again we are talking about getting more loan players and I agree that we need to hope we are signing a relatively fit James Beattie.

Anyway obviously getting loan players worked so well last season just look where we are now.

Mainly used in the wrong positions. I see no problem boosting the squad with loan players that are already fit and are forward minded and not called Nyron Notshirtworthy

 

[Pedro Verde]

And also, whats to say that BT would be available on a permanent deal? I'm sure there is something to do with his registration being at Rangers that may prevent a permanent deal

As far as Iam aware Rangers terminated BTs contract by mutual consent so he is a free agent

 

[Bladesman]

Mainly used in the wrong positions. I see no problem boosting the squad with loan players that are already fit and are forward minded and not called Nyron Notshirtworthy

No we filled our squad with shit to average loan signings.

 

[JohnDenver]

Nothing to do with him being selfish (And for my money he wasn't a selfish player), but everything to do with the team focussing their efforts through him. He became the focal point of our attack through poor management of the team in my opinion.

True. For most of Robbo's reign we'd fanny about at the back for a bit before launching it at BT. When Blackwell came along, he just cut out the fannying.

The risk we have in getting BT back is that he will break up our pattern - he'll either come looking for the ball where he shouldn't, or his teammates will look for him too early or too often (or both).

If he returns we'll need to be very careful how we integrate him. Personally, I'd prefer us to invest the cash in a quick striker and a centre back. But if he did return it would be fascinating....

 

[SwissBlade]

As far as Iam aware Rangers terminated BTs contract by mutual consent so he is a free agent

Contract - yes
Registration - ?

 

[Latters]

I'm not sure I agree that we now need a pacy forward. Cresswell and, more recently, Porter, have shown that big, strong, but slower strikers can score plenty at this level. Surely, it stands to reason that a better big, strong striker with a hell of a shot on him and a good footballing brain will do even better.

As for him being selfish and lazy, I remember when we signed him and being very impressed with his link up play and all round game and thinking "so this is the difference between a striker that's played for England and one that's just steady or 'quite good' like Hulse."

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I'm not sure I agree that we now need a pacy forward. Cresswell and, more recently, Porter, have shown that big, strong, but slower strikers can score plenty at this level. Surely, it stands to reason that a better big, strong striker with a hell of a shot on him and a good footballing brain will do even better.

As for him being selfish and lazy, I remember when we signed him and being very impressed with his link up play and all round game and thinking "so this is the difference between a striker that's played for England and one that's just steady or 'quite good' like Hulse."

Pretty much every game i saw him in i was immensely impressed, and his work rate was pretty good. At corners he was our best centre back.

 

[Darren]

you're beaten essentially. Too weak to mount an argument. Maybe it is better that you bow to my superior intelligence .... that way we will not have you 'flouncing' out of the forum again and going AWOL for a few months .....With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

With Beattie not in the team the rest (taking away the highest scorer Henderson to control for their being a striker in the team) scored 29 goals.

Just more evidence to back up my theory that he was a selfish player and we played better as a team without him.

Does it matter who scores the goals as long as someone scores them?

We played 23 games with JB in the team and got 32 goals and 23 without him in the team and got 34 goals. This includes own goals which weren't included above.

However, 2 of JB's 23 games came as subs and we got 1 goal in those two games, so we could say we got 31 goals in the 21 full games JB and 35 goals in the 25 games he didn't play a full game.

Either way the facts do not support your argument.

 

[Revolution]

With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

the other forwards being:

- a hopelessly out of form Billy Sharp
- Anthony Stokes. Enough said
- a half crocked Henderson, who was so bad that the general consensus after his sending off at Swansea was that this was a good thing as it would keep him out of the team
- a half crocked Webber

You make it sound like these guys would have scored a hatfull were Beattie not there. I doubt it.

 

[mattbianco1]

We need "A" striker.

If it's Beattie i would welcome him back with open arms. If Cresswell can core loads in this league Beattie would score double that.

One of the problems I've noticed this season is we're not shooting enough. Most of the goals, especially at home have been little cut backs in the box and placed finishes.

Beattie would shoot on sight. Tonne was always looking to open his body up and have a shot too

---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

the other forwards being:

- a hopelessly out of form Billy Sharp
- Anthony Stokes. Enough said
- a half crocked Henderson, who was so bad that the general consensus after his sending off at Swansea was that this was a good thing as it would keep him out of the team
- a half crocked Webber

You make it sound like these guys would have scored a hatfull were Beattie not there. I doubt it.

I can't fathom it? How can people not want him?

Look at his record Pre-Blades. Rubbish (other than at Southampton)

look at his record post-Blades. Rubbish.

He's a Championship player as proved. God only know how many he'd score in League 1!

 

[Bladesman]

We need "A" striker.

If it's Beattie i would welcome him back with open arms. If Cresswell can core loads in this league Beattie would score double that.

One of the problems I've noticed this season is we're not shooting enough. Most of the goals, especially at home have been little cut backs in the box and placed finishes.

Beattie would shoot on sight. Tonne was always looking to open his body up and have a shot too

A Tonne and Beattie partnership could be rather impressive in this division.

 

[Ollessendro]

Just to be clear on the "facts", were there the same number of games when Beattie played as when he didn't? And was the opposition comparable? If not the goals with / without him is anecdotal evidence at best.

Try reading the thread.

Does it matter who scores the goals as long as someone scores them?

We played 23 games with JB in the team and got 32 goals and 23 without him in the team and got 34 goals. This includes own goals which weren't included above.

However, 2 of JB's 23 games came as subs and we got 1 goal in those two games, so we could say we got 31 goals in the 21 full games JB and 35 goals in the 25 games he didn't play a full game.

Either way the facts do not support your argument.

It should not matter in principle. But in this case it clearly did matter. We had super star James Beattie and it was all about him. Give it to Beattie. A little bit like the epsiode of Fresh Prince where Will joins a new team and the instruction is 'pass to Will'. The coach illustrates this by saying 'if you are free, in the D and under the basket what fo you do?' Someone replies 'shoot?'. The coach shouts 'no, YOU PASS TO WILL'.

I think the facts are pretty clear that we played better without him. The team won more games, scored more goals and other players scored more goals.

With Beattie in the team, the other players scored 16 goals.

the other forwards being:

- a hopelessly out of form Billy Sharp
- Anthony Stokes. Enough said
- a half crocked Henderson, who was so bad that the general consensus after his sending off at Swansea was that this was a good thing as it would keep him out of the team
- a half crocked Webber

You make it sound like these guys would have scored a hatfull were Beattie not there. I doubt it.

Huh? How do you explain the fact that after he left we went on good run of form, won more games (playing better and scoring more) and finished in a higher leasgue position? Oh yeah, Cotterill.

(I could easily combat your other factors/Coterill argument with change of style, better team spirt and increased confidence coming from Beattie being out of the team).

We need "A" striker.

If it's Beattie i would welcome him back with open arms. If Cresswell can core loads in this league Beattie would score double that.

Do we need another striker? Cresswell is on form, Porter has a good goalscoring record at Oldham/Motherwell and will score goals at this level (if he stays fit), Ched is still to come back and we have yong, hungry potential in Tonne and Philskirk.

Your second point is just your opinion.

One of the problems I've noticed this season is we're not shooting enough. Most of the goals, especially at home have been little cut backs in the box and placed finishes.

Beattie would shoot on sight. Tonne was always looking to open his body up and have a shot too

I despair! 2nd highest goalscorers in the league, joint top and won 5 games out of 6. Yet we are not shooting enough. It's been horrible watching us tear teams apart and score goals from free flowing attacking football. Never mind these defence splitting passes, full backs maruading forward (Brazilian style) and cutting back for tap in's, pin point passes from the back and nice finishes. SHOOT!

Beattie will shoot. Great. Selfish Beattie willl break up attacks and free flowing football by shooting all the time. No thanks. Keep up the good work Danny. Do not rock the boat with overweight, unfit prima donners. Keep the ball on the deck and let's keep ripping defences apart with a mixture of free flowing attacking football, pint point passes and nice finishing.

 

[Ollessendro]

Phone call between Danny Wilson and James Beattie

Phone rings
James Beattie answers “hhheeellllooo“ *through a mouthful of pies*
Danny Wilson “hello ….. James? “
JB: “oh, sorry …. Excuse me …. Just snacking …. Hi … hello“
(lots of noise in the background)
DW: “James, it’s Danny Wilson“
JB: “Oh hi Danny, how you doing? Hang on a second ……. Let me just switch the TV off. It’s Jeremy Kyle. Love him. Makes me feel great. Hang on, I’ll just record it“
DW: “Pretty good lad. And you? “
JB: “Been better, but you know“
DW: “Look James, I’m gunna cut to the chase. I know you are a free agent and that you are a bit of a legend here …“.
JB: “still got my Sheff U shin pads“
DW: “… er … yeah … so, we’re obviously in the third tier but wonder if you would consider coming down an training with us? I am sure you would get a hatful at this level“
JB: “well, I am pretty out of shape to be honest Danny“
(Wilson thinking has that not always been the case. Seemed pretty chubby when he was at Everton and he played against Wednesday)
DW: “yeah sure, I know you struggled with an injury last season. But some hard work and training and you will be in match shape soon enough. I’ve got this guy who I signed from Derby in the summer who is out of shape and he scored twice last week“
** there is a sound of rummaging and fizzing in the background as Beattie opens up a large packet of Dorito’s and a large bottle of coke
JB: “I am really out of shape Danny. Not sure how much I can offer“
DW: “If you come down to Shirecliffe and put in some graft, you will soon be up to it“
(Wilson is starting to think the albino gorilla he met for a pint of real ale might be right and that Beattie is actually lazy)
JB: “I know what you are thinking Danny. You are thinking that I am lazy. But did you not see the match against Middlesbrough where I ran the length of the pitch to get back and make a tackle? “
(Hmmmm, Wilson thinks. Was that that token gesture that he made in the last minute – in front of the TV camera’s – when the game was already lost?)
DW: “must have missed that James ….“
JB: “I’ve got the video clip on my phone. Hang on I’ll send it to you“
DW: “erm ….. ok, thanks …. Anyway. Let’s out training aside for a moment. Of course we are in the third tier and on a limited budget. We’d not be able to pay you anything like before“
JB: “well, I still have my United shin pads, so that is one less thing to pay for“
DW: “oh yeah ….. “
JB: “Hey Danny, is that burger van still doing double burgers with cheese, onions and bacons near the petrol station at the Bramall Lane end? “
DW: “I am not sure James …..“ (Wilson thinks you could ask Harry Maguire he will know)
JB: “And is it true that the Cricketers has reopened and is now doing real ale? Ale is decent ion Glasgow (and I’ve drank enough of it) but I have missed Kelham Island brews“
DW: “Yeah mate, heading down there for a few this evening. Nowt like a few real ales to accompany the beautiful game. Anyway James. Football“
JB: “Oh yeah“
DW: “we’ve started really well and Ii think we can push for automatic promotion. We have a great mix of experience and some top young lands. You would have to work hard, but I think you could fit in“
JB: “I saw a video actually ….. you are not shooting enough“
DW: “come again? “
JB: “you don’t shoot enough. As a team. Against Bury you should have shot more. James Beattie would have shot“
DW: “we won 4-0 nowt“
JB: “Yeah but Sheffielders don’t really like all that free flowing, attacking football. Cut backs, precise passing and tap in’s are not what it is all about. It will be your downfall. But if I pay for United again then I will shoot on sight“
DW: “errmm….. well …..“
JB: “I am not selfish though. It’s not just about James Beattie. Did you ever hear about how I used to go down to Sheffield Hallamshire hospital and meet ill kids“
DW: “that’s great James. But football ….“
(Beattie thinks football, football. Of course football. Something he used to care about and put first at Southampton. Whatever happened to that. Beer? Yup. Ego, yes. Scouse Barbie dolls? Sure. Food? Definitely).
DW: “James … you there? “
JB: “sorry Danny, my mind was drifting“
DW: “Are you interested in coming back to the club? “
(sat on the sofa Beattie does not like the sound of all that running, training and hard work. Plus he is James Beattie and should get in any team)
JB: “Does anyone have the number 9 shirt Danny? “
DW: “Well for the next couple of months at least it is taken ….“
JB: “hmmmm ……. Do you know I am the only player to score more than 20 goals a season at Bramall Lane since Brian Deane? “
DW: “pretty impressive James, but you will only get in my team on merit“
(merit, merit. Yes, remember Tony Pullis talking about that)
JB: “I am not a prima donna you know. It is that Tony Pullis rubbing people up the wrong way! Did I tell you about my work with the hospice? And have you received my message with the clip of that tackle against Boro? Better goalscoring record than Fjortoft, Blake and Bent …..“
DW: “Well James I am starting to think my top priority might be a defender. But I’d love to see you scoring goals for SUFC again“
JB: “I could play centre half. I used to be great at defending corners. Plus some centre halves can be a bit weighty. Look at Gary Pallister. In fact a few of my friends are saying I look like him. Or Jan Molby“
DW: “well that is not exactly what I had in mind“
JB: “I am not fit at all Danny“
DW: “ok then James. Keep me updated on your fitness“
JB: “Will do Danny“
**Jeremy Kyle can be heard berating some chav in the background and the sound that can only be equated to pigs troffing in a pig sty takes over as Danny Wilson hangs up the phone**