Bassett or weir

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bassett or weir

  • harry bassett

    Votes: 49 87.5%
  • davey weir

    Votes: 7 12.5%

  • Total voters
    56
I've seen some nonsense on here. That's in the top ten. Bassett would play hoofball. It wouldn't work.

In case you hadn't noticed, Wimbledon are extinct and Watford now play proper football. What's John Beck doing these days.

Interesting that you mention your arse. I disagree with it's opinion.

What a silly point you make. You are old enough to know that Wimbledon going west was nothing to do with Bassett. It was all to do with Merton BC and the attempts thereafter to get the club back to Merton.

Bassett's football style was successful but has since been superceded. I would suggest that the reason for this was the increasing globalisation of the Premier League. It is all about brands now and English football doesn't feature at all save that the Premier League is played in England.

If you want to be childlike about Wimbledon at least they won the FA Cup in my lifetime and at 55 I don't think I'll ever see Sheffield United emulate that feat. Indeed it is more likely we'll win the FA Trophy before the FA Cup.
 

Bassett has not managed a football club since he was 57. As I said, the game left him and his 'style' behind.

Wilder has been a manager since 2002, including long spells at Halifax and Oxford. He is keeping his potential very well hidden.

Still, he's a Blade. He'll be great, just like Adams and Morgan. Come to think of it, when is it my turn?
 
Stoke failed miserably in the premiership with hoof. It's yesterday's football. They should get Weir in.

:-)

UTB

Haha it's a fair argument but......

1. It stopped working, it got sussed and they're now changing it.
2. Despite common misconception they've also had some very good players.
3. No one else has done anywhere near as well playing that way in the last 5 to 10 years. They are the exception.
 
Haha it's a fair argument but......

1. It stopped working, it got sussed and they're now changing it.
2. Despite common misconception they've also had some very good players.
3. No one else has done anywhere near as well playing that way in the last 5 to 10 years. They are the exception.


I've heard it's stopped working so many times, until someone else comes along and proves it wrong, again. But it's not my point, I'd hate us to play that way. The point is that a team has clearly done well out of an extreme brand of football, yet we fear just one step on the long road towards it - hence trying to emulate Swansea at the other extreme, resulting in us playing like Skegness.

We've become so hung up on a non issue, trying to cleanse ourselves of the memory of the last 20 years, that whilst we tie ourselves up in knots avoiding it, teams like Rotherham and Bradford and Port Vale are strolling past us, going through none of this nonsensical debate.

UTB
 
Haha it's a fair argument but......

1. It stopped working, it got sussed and they're now changing it.
2. Despite common misconception they've also had some very good players.
3. No one else has done anywhere near as well playing that way in the last 5 to 10 years. They are the exception.

Good Lord! Common sense? It'll be lost on the Hoofwaffe, mate. Their tails are up at the moment. They are dusting off their neck braces and getting the binoculars out of the attic.

Only at S2...........only at good old parochial, prehistoric S2. Tiresome isn't it?
 
There is a load of pompous rubbish talked about what is or isn't the right way to play football.

The last time I looked, the rules of the game stated that the winning side was the one that scored more goals than the other side. So surely the correct 'style of play' for any side is the one that enables them to do this. If the players at your disposal can only cope with a direct/long ball game then it makes sense to play that way.

I think the reason that direct/long ball methods got such a slating from various football commentators/pundits was because they enabled unfashionable clubs to compete with (and often beat) the football 'darlings' of the day.

A passing game can be very boring. Spain are often boring. Manchester united against Chelsea his season was boring.

Bassett's sides were sometimes boring as well. But they were also often very exciting to watch. The whole emphasis was on playing with tempo and getting the ball into dangerous areas often and quickly. Particularly in the two promotion seasons under Bassett we pressed teams high up the pitch and played in their half.

There is no right or wrong way to play. Only the way that is right for you.
 
Good Lord! Common sense? It'll be lost on the Hoofwaffe, mate. Their tails are up at the moment. They are dusting off their neck braces and getting the binoculars out of the attic.

Only at S2...........only at good old parochial, prehistoric S2. Tiresome isn't it?



I'm unsure if you're making an effort to be so stupid, or if it just comes naturally.

UTB
 
There is a load of pompous rubbish talked about what is or isn't the right way to play football.

The last time I looked, the rules of the game stated that the winning side was the one that scored more goals than the other side. So surely the correct 'style of play' for any side is the one that enables them to do this. If the players at your disposal can only cope with a direct/long ball game then it makes sense to play that way.

I think the reason that direct/long ball methods got such a slating from various football commentators/pundits was because they enabled unfashionable clubs to compete with (and often beat) the football 'darlings' of the day.

A passing game can be very boring. Spain are often boring. Manchester united against Chelsea his season was boring.

Bassett's sides were sometimes boring as well. But they were also often very exciting to watch. The whole emphasis was on playing with tempo and getting the ball into dangerous areas often and quickly. Particularly in the two promotion seasons under Bassett we pressed teams high up the pitch and played in their half.

There is no right or wrong way to play. Only the way that is right for you.



Now that's common sense.

UTB
 
I've heard it's stopped working so many times, until someone else comes along and proves it wrong, again. But it's not my point, I'd hate us to play that way. The point is that a team has clearly done well out of an extreme brand of football, yet we fear just one step on the long road towards it - hence trying to emulate Swansea at the other extreme, resulting in us playing like Skegness.

We've become so hung up on a non issue, trying to cleanse ourselves of the memory of the last 20 years, that whilst we tie ourselves up in knots avoiding it, teams like Rotherham and Bradford and Port Vale are strolling past us, going through none of this nonsensical debate.

UTB

There is a danger in all this debate that fans are being polarised into hoofers and purists. It isn't like that though is it. Most people want to see skilfull football played mainly on the ground but that it is incisive, productive and attractive.

At the moment it seems there are those who are willing to exchange relegation just to get the 'football' right:rolleyes:, whilst others can see the folly in that approach.

Weir is making one massive mistake, trying to change too much too soon. It don't work. Any manager will tell you that whether they are managing footballers, a brewery or an airline. Frankly he is showing his ignorance and unless he learns quick (Scots aren't exactly renouned for thinking out of the box) he will get sacked.
 
Here's my view and it will never change. The best, most effective and timeless brand of football is pass and move. It's simple, entertaining and has been working for over 100 years. If DW is trying to introduce his own brand of this then he should be given time to do so, as it can and will eventually work.

I'm not against long ball, hoof ball, orbit ball (whatever you want to call it) because I'm a football purist or even because it doesn't seem fashionable. I'm against it because its proven to only take teams so far and will only work for as long as it takes your opposition to learn how to combat what you're doing. Why else would Stoke have abandoned this style? It's limited and one dimensional.

I'm not a fan of this thing called tiki-taka either (for the record). Only works if you have all of the best players in the world. If we're going for pass and move then all DW needs is some decent players. Simples.
 
If DW is trying to introduce his own brand of this then he should be given time to do so, as it can and will eventually work.



Are you sure? Really? How much time do we allow to see if someone who's never done it before, showing of signs of being able to right now, and who's looking like taking us to the 4th division?

No doubt teams have been successful playing the whole spectrum of styles. It's lots of blind faith, from here, to believe Weir's brand will be successful.

UTB
 
According to Pinchy anything more than tippy tappy five yard passes are hoofball a totally ridiculous concept stuck in his head making him a bit like the proverbial stuck record, lets not forget TC arguably the best United player since the second world war regularly hit passes 60 yards or more while in a team noted for it's good football. Another ridiculous statement is "Basset's style of football has been left behind" well yeah so has the Ajax/Holland brand of total football, so has the Arsenal style of 10 year ago (anyone remember which team battered them in a cup semi playing more direct football when a certain ref helped them out all he could). One thing is certain Bryon Robson Mk2 will never ever win fuck all with his tippy tappy negative style of shite football.
 
According to Pinchy anything more than tippy tappy five yard passes are hoofball a totally ridiculous concept stuck in his head making him a bit like the proverbial stuck record, lets not forget TC arguably the best United player since the second world war regularly hit passes 60 yards or more while in a team noted for it's good football. Another ridiculous statement is "Basset's style of football has been left behind" well yeah so has the Ajax/Holland brand of total football, so has the Arsenal style of 10 year ago (anyone remember which team battered them in a cup semi playing more direct football when a certain ref helped them out all he could). One thing is certain Bryon Robson Mk2 will never ever win fuck all with his tippy tappy negative style of shite football.

To be fair to Pinchy, I think a lot of his 'Brian the Blade' myopic style & self-reverential rhetoric is a bit a caricature / self-parody. Not sure he's truly serious most of the time! I genuinely chuckled at his joke about flouncing off to the golf course. Think we all want entertainment at the end of the day!
 
After 7 League games

Weir P7 W1 D1 L5 F5 A12 Pts 4
Bassett P7 W2 D0 L5 F4 A11 Pts 6

Not much in it and yes we did go on to be relegated.


The poll question should be: would you rather watch Weir's team after seven games in charge, or Bassett's team after seven games in charge.

The answer would be neither cos they were both rubbish.

But people were more patient 20-odd years ago. We stuck with Bassett and it paid off.
 
In the days of Harry Bassett United were classed as a long ball team
When Arsenal or Man Utd sent through a long ball it was classed as a 'Defence splitting pass' by the football snobs
Just as now a 50 yards pass by Chelsea or Man City is sublime passing of the highest order yet when United do it it's called 'Hoofball'
Football is ever changing and the game is open for various styles of play even within the same 90 minutes - Basset or Weir - I do know that if United under Basset had 60% possession it generally meant we had won the game comfortably now we have 70% possession and hardly get into the opposition's half!
 

But people were more patient 20-odd years ago. We stuck with Bassett and it paid off.


It's easier, and more sensible, to stick with a manager who has proved he can do it.

It's the risk that we took with an inexperienced manager. And whilst I'd settle for very slow progress, it's truly alarming how far backwards we've gone under Weir.

Can we really risk relegation to the lowest tier of English football?

UTB
 
In the real world there's Swansea and Stoke, and believe it or not (drum roll) a whole spectrum in between, that dare to occasionally lift the ball off the floor.

UTB

Quite right and the way people bang on about Swansea it's hard to believe that there were only 4 points separating Stoke and Swansea at the end of last season!
 
Are you sure? Really? How much time do we allow to see if someone who's never done it before, showing of signs of being able to right now, and who's looking like taking us to the 4th division?

No doubt teams have been successful playing the whole spectrum of styles. It's lots of blind faith, from here, to believe Weir's brand will be successful.

UTB

What I'm saying is that style will inevitably work in the long run if time is given to recruit the right blend of players, work with current ones etc etc. I can't guarantee that Weir will be successful and I've never suggested that he definitely will but the man has been given the job and deserves more than 7 games to prove he can take the team forward. In fact I was the one who said after the Notts County game that we shouldn't get too carried away with the performance and that the players and manager would be on a steep learning curve at first. That's why I'm not panicking, I kind of expected this though not quite as bad admittedly.

We've had a bad start yes and we're not playing well currently but sacking him in September would be complete lunacy. The knee jerk reaction on here is completely OTT. We've got 39 games to play ffs!
 
It's easier, and more sensible, to stick with a manager who has proved he can do it.

It's the risk that we took with an inexperienced manager. And whilst I'd settle for very slow progress, it's truly alarming how far backwards we've gone under Weir.

Can we really risk relegation to the lowest tier of English football?

UTB

It's true that Weir is an unknown quantity. He might not be cut out for management, or he may be the next Brian Clough. Either way, we have to hold our nerve, at least until Christmas. Eight games is too soon to be calling for his head.
 
It's true that Weir is an unknown quantity. He might not be cut out for management, or he may be the next Brian Clough. Either way, we have to hold our nerve, at least until Christmas. Eight games is too soon to be calling for his head.

I wouldn't sack him now, but I would at least expect some progress over the next month. If we show no signs of being able to vary our game when it's noew working for us, he should go.

Without significant improvement, Christmas is too late to allow a new man to undo the mess and rescue us.

And my God, we're now being influenced by the real prospect of dropping to the lowest tier of the game.

:(

UTB
 
There is a danger in all this debate that fans are being polarised into hoofers and purists. It isn't like that though is it. Most people want to see skilfull football played mainly on the ground but that it is incisive, productive and attractive.

At the moment it seems there are those who are willing to exchange relegation just to get the 'football' right:rolleyes:, whilst others can see the folly in that approach.

Weir is making one massive mistake, trying to change too much too soon. It don't work. Any manager will tell you that whether they are managing footballers, a brewery or an airline. Frankly he is showing his ignorance and unless he learns quick (Scots aren't exactly renouned for thinking out of the box) he will get sacked.
There is a danger in all this debate that fans are being polarised into hoofers and purists. It isn't like that though is it. Most people want to see skilfull football played mainly on the ground but that it is incisive, productive and attractive.

At the moment it seems there are those who are willing to exchange relegation just to get the 'football' right:rolleyes:, whilst others can see the folly in that approach.

Weir is making one massive mistake, trying to change too much too soon. It don't work. Any manager will tell you that whether they are managing footballers, a brewery or an airline. Frankly he is showing his ignorance and unless he learns quick (Scots aren't exactly renouned for thinking out of the box) he will get sacked.
Scotland have, per Head of population more new inventions, than anywhere in the World
 
Another manager who insists on playing mind numbingly boring football sideways and backwards ,but keeping possession at all times is Sean O'Driscoll. I'll just check where Bristol City are in the league.
 
Quite right and the way people bang on about Swansea it's hard to believe that there were only 4 points separating Stoke and Swansea at the end of last season!
An article on Swansea's playing style under Rodgers:

The myth of Swansea’s ‘attacking’ football

300x

As Brendan Rodgers sat in his Match of the Day 2 swivel chair on Sunday night, he was on the receiving end of some well-deserved back slapping.
Despite indifferent recent form, Rodgers’ Swansea City team sit 12 points clear of the drop zone with three games left, and barring a minor miracle, will still be a Premier League team come August.
But as you will no doubt have heard a thousand times already, it has been Swansea’s style of play that has won them so many admirers, and put manager Rodgers (pictured) on the radar of some much bigger clubs.
And as the Northern Irishman sat between Robbie Savage and Alan Shearer, there was palpable embarrassment his face as his fellow pundits gave him a verbal round of applause.
To give Shearer and Savage credit, they never said it themselves, but all season pundits, journalists and commentators have eulogised about Swansea’s brand of football. It has been claimed more than once that Rodgers’ team are “the blueprint for promoted teams who play attacking football”.
Swansea do indeed play excellent football, I would go as far to say that they have played the most attractive football in the Premier League. But they do not play attacking football and I believe that pigeon holing them as such does them a great disservice.
The statistic that always gets wheeled out during any Swansea City game, win, lose or draw, is possession of the ball. The Swans will invariably have somewhere between 70-80% possession over 90 minutes, a quite incredible feat for a newly promoted side at this level. But their stats in specific areas of the pitch say as much about their playing style as 77% possession.
The definition of ‘attacking’ play

Stoke City are the only side with fewer total shots and shots on target than Brendan Rodgers’ team, while Manchester City are the only side to have completed more passes. What is attacking football if not a style of play with the onus on scoring goals? If a side with so much possession actively tries to score so rarely, how can they possibly fall into that category?
Their style of play is patient, possession-focused and utterly enthralling, but it is certainly not the cavalier near insanity of Kevin Keegan’s Newcastle or Ian Holloway’s Blackpool.
Not all work that a team does with the ball has the ultimate goal of getting the ball into the opponent’s net. What Swansea do brilliantly is that they get themselves into positions where another goal is simply unnecessary.
Once they are in a winning position, their intricate passing triangles and excellent use of space fundamentally become a sexy version of taking the ball into the corner. They keep the ball from the opposition so that the opposition cannot score. Essentially, they are defending while in possession of the ball.
I think that Leon Britton’s play this season proves this. For a long time, the favourite stat of Sky Sports was that the diminutive midfielder’s pass-completion ratio was the best in Europe, ahead of Barcelona’s Xavi and Iniesta.
A revelation, but...

Britton has undoubtedly been an absolute revelation, but the main reason that his passing stats have been even better than Xavi’s for much of the season is that they are trying to do very different things with the ball. The stats say it all: Britton: 0 goals, 0 assists. Xavi: 10 goals, 6 assists.
I concede that claiming that Leon Britton is no Xavi is a bit like kicking over your son’s sandcastle because it doesn’t have a drawbridge, but there is a serious point here. Both players are the midfield fulcrum of their teams, but while Xavi plays the ball forward, Britton plays the ball sideways. Having the ball is the priority, not necessarily scoring with it.
As a result, Blackburn have 47 goals, Swansea only 39. But Blackburn look odds-on for relegation, while Rodgers is already planning an assault on the top-half in 2012/13.
Fundamentally, I think that the main reason why the false labelling of Swansea’s football annoys me is that it just seems lazy to try to call it something familiar. I do not believe that it is in any way familiar.
I think that Rodgers has brought a style of play that we have never seen to the Premier League, and that we should recognise and acknowledge how incredible that is, rather than attempt to rationalise or normalise it.
When something is genuinely new, there isn’t a name for it yet. Why not just burn our labels, sit back and enjoy the show?


-----------------------------------------------

Is Weir trying to copy Swansea's style? While we had a right back and a central midfielder out wide on Saturday, Swansea have always had pacey wingers and good forward movement. They also have full backs who can go forward, while we have McMahon and Hill who rarely contribute to our attacking play. Laudrup has apparantly upped their tempo a little.

They've been good at identifying situations when you should bomb forward quickly before the opposition have time to regroup.If you watch Michu's goals last season they don't all come following 20 passes moves. There's lots of good movement, lots of crosses, lots of forward passes, lots of good width. There are more things than rolling the ball across the back four that we can learn from them.


 
In the days of Harry Bassett United were classed as a long ball team
When Arsenal or Man Utd sent through a long ball it was classed as a 'Defence splitting pass' by the football snobs
Just as now a 50 yards pass by Chelsea or Man City is sublime passing of the highest order yet when United do it it's called 'Hoofball'
Football is ever changing and the game is open for various styles of play even within the same 90 minutes - Basset or Weir - I do know that if United under Basset had 60% possession it generally meant we had won the game comfortably now we have 70% possession and hardly get into the opposition's half!

Do you really not understand the difference between a 60 yard pass to the feet of a team-mate [or played into his path without breaking stride] and an aimless, brainless punt somewhere in the direction of the opposition goal?

Bassett's 'style' (anything but stylish) was based on surrendering possession. Functional, perhaps, if you have a Deane; Fashanu; Blissett or Agana but futile when you haven't.

We all hear managers and players. everyday, speak of playing the game the 'right way'. What do they mean? Propel the ball in the general direction of the other goal and all chase after it like a pack of schoolboy Montgomerys in a playground? Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High? No. They speak, of course, of 'pass and move' - the attractive, effective way to play the game. The way the best teams play. The way that wins matches and trophies. Are all these professionals wrong? Is everyone out of step but good old parochial, prehistoric downtown Jurassic Lane?

Of course there are variants of pass and move. Intelligent systems can accommodate variation but none of them involve deliberately giving the ball away or 'helping it on' or endangering low-flying aircraft. Brazil were different to Holland who, in turn, were different to France. But all passed the ball and moved intelligently into space to receive it again, it to create room for a team-mate to work in. Look at club football. Man Utd are different to Arsenal who, in turn, are different to Chelsea but again, the common factor is they don't readily give the ball away. The passing may vary in nature and extent, but passing and moving it is, not aimless punting. One obvious factor is that not one of these teams would give a moments thought to employing the likes of Dinosaur Dave (not even when he was a young dinosaur); at least not without falling down in a convulsive fit of laughter.

Hoof has no variants. There is no finesse in whacking a ball as far as you possibly can to nowhere in particular. Any reasonably fit, strong person can do it. If you have big, strong, quick athletes to chase it for you it might even work up to a point, at a certain level, but, of course, it gets found out against opposition who counter with ability and intelligence. Then it's no contest. Real Madrid, Barcelona and all the top teams could, should they so wish, assemble the fittest, biggest, strongest, most athletic bunch of 'direct' footballers the world had ever seen. They don't. Why not? Because against proper intelligent 'pass and move' players they wouldn't get a kick. They would valiantly chase shadows until, ultimately, left begging for mercy and respite, they would walk off 6-0 down.

This spurious debate has, in the rest of the civilised world, been settled decades ago. For those who did not get the Green 'Un in those days, Hoof lost. Only in the roughly hewn caves and uncharted wastelands of S2 does it live on. It seems everyone is out of step but us Blades.
 
Do you really not understand the difference between a 60 yard pass to the feet of a team-mate [or played into his path without breaking stride] and an aimless, brainless punt somewhere in the direction of the opposition goal?

Bassett's 'style' (anything but stylish) was based on surrendering possession. Functional, perhaps, if you have a Deane; Fashanu; Blissett or Agana but futile when you haven't.

We all hear managers and players. everyday, speak of playing the game the 'right way'. What do they mean? Propel the ball in the general direction of the other goal and all chase after it like a pack of schoolboy Montgomerys in a playground? Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High? No. They speak, of course, of 'pass and move' - the attractive, effective way to play the game. The way the best teams play. The way that wins matches and trophies. Are all these professionals wrong? Is everyone out of step but good old parochial, prehistoric downtown Jurassic Lane?

Of course there are variants of pass and move. Intelligent systems can accommodate variation but none of them involve deliberately giving the ball away or 'helping it on' or endangering low-flying aircraft. Brazil were different to Holland who, in turn, were different to France. But all passed the ball and moved intelligently into space to receive it again, it to create room for a team-mate to work in. Look at club football. Man Utd are different to Arsenal who, in turn, are different to Chelsea but again, the common factor is they don't readily give the ball away. The passing may vary in nature and extent, but passing and moving it is, not aimless punting. One obvious factor is that not one of these teams would give a moments thought to employing the likes of Dinosaur Dave (not even when he was a young dinosaur); at least not without falling down in a convulsive fit of laughter.

Hoof has no variants. There is no finesse in whacking a ball as far as you possibly can to nowhere in particular. Any reasonably fit, strong person can do it. If you have big, strong, quick athletes to chase it for you it might even work up to a point, at a certain level, but, of course, it gets found out against opposition who counter with ability and intelligence. Then it's no contest. Real Madrid, Barcelona and all the top teams could, should they so wish, assemble the fittest, biggest, strongest, most athletic bunch of 'direct' footballers the world had ever seen. They don't. Why not? Because against proper intelligent 'pass and move' players they wouldn't get a kick. They would valiantly chase shadows until, ultimately, left begging for mercy and respite, they would walk off 6-0 down.

This spurious debate has, in the rest of the civilised world, been settled decades ago. For those who did not get the Green 'Un in those days, Hoof lost. Only in the roughly hewn caves and uncharted wastelands of S2 does it live on. It seems everyone is out of step but us Blades.

I'm lost, remind me who's advocating the hoof on here that you describe? Anyone who doesn't like Weir? Warnock fans? If there's no variants of hoof, who does and who doesn't qualify manager-wise?
 
Do you really not understand the difference between a 60 yard pass to the feet of a team-mate [or played into his path without breaking stride] and an aimless, brainless punt somewhere in the direction of the opposition goal?

There isn't as much as you claim. As Bassett said at the time (I'm paraphrasing), when John Gannon hits a long pass to Brian Deane or Tony Agana, that's long ball football and a bad thing: when an Arsenal midfielder does it to Ian Wright or Kevin Campbell, that's a skilful piece of passing and a good thing.

Of course, to admit this would be to admit there are shades of grey.

Then it's no contest. Real Madrid, Barcelona and all the top teams could, should they so wish, assemble the fittest, biggest, strongest, most athletic bunch of 'direct' footballers the world had ever seen. They don't.

With the exception of Barcelona, they do. All the teams in the PL are huge compared to, say, United. Scrappy midgets get you nowhere. They are skilful, yes, but these teams are certainly not filled with Leon Britton clones.

Anyway, Pinchy is beyond self parody and just trolling at this point.
 
Do you really not understand the difference between a 60 yard pass to the feet of a team-mate [or played into his path without breaking stride] and an aimless, brainless punt somewhere in the direction of the opposition goal?

Bassett's 'style' (anything but stylish) was based on surrendering possession. Functional, perhaps, if you have a Deane; Fashanu; Blissett or Agana but futile when you haven't...........................

........................This spurious debate has, in the rest of the civilised world, been settled decades ago. For those who did not get the Green 'Un in those days, Hoof lost. Only in the roughly hewn caves and uncharted wastelands of S2 does it live on. It seems everyone is out of step but us Blades.

For God's sake - nobody want to play hoof. It's not a one or the other argument. Seriously, what's so hard to understand?

Turn your first point on it's head, completely. No point playing hoof without the right players - agreed? Does that not ring any bells re today's issues?

If "the debate has been settled in the rest of the civilised world" - how come none of ther 3rd division teams that beat us every week seem obsessed by keeping the ball on the floor over EVERY other option?

UTB
 
For God's sake - nobody want to play hoof. It's not a one or the other argument. Seriously, what's so hard to understand?

Turn your first point on it's head, completely. No point playing hoof without the right players - agreed? Does that not ring any bells re today's issues?

If "the debate has been settled in the rest of the civilised world" - how come none of ther 3rd division teams that beat us every week seem obsessed by keeping the ball on the floor over EVERY other option?

UTB

In my experience, most third division teams do their limited best to play the game properly. Sadly, all too often, it's more than enough to account for us!
 
In my experience, most third division teams do their limited best to play the game properly. Sadly, all too often, it's more than enough to account for us!


Yep, agreed. So our "poncey style" is failing miserably? Can't we play it "properly" like them, and begin to compete with the Rotherham's and Carlisles of this world?

We've had 3 pre seasons and over 2 years of trying now. It's a tad convenient to be blaming hoof for our woes.

UTB
 

Yep, agreed. So our "poncey style" is failing miserably? Can't we play it "properly" like them, and begin to compete with the Rotherham's and Carlisles of this world?

We've had 3 pre seasons and over 2 years of trying now. It's a tad convenient to be blaming hoof for our woes.

UTB

What I don't get is this:

I presume that in Pinchy's world, we played "hoof" under Warnock and Blackwell between 2002 and 2010. In that period we never finished lower than 9th in the second tier (and that lowest position was down to the abject failure of the presumed "non-hoof" under Robson in the early part of 07-08).

Since 2011, with the brief hiatus of Morgan, we have had Wilson and Weir as managers who are - as I understand it - non-hoof managers. Under their tenure we have failed to get out of the 3rd Division and, at the moment show every sign of declining further.

What I am struggling with is how, when "hoof" ruled the roost we were always serious contenders for promotion to the PL, whilst since "hoof" as been banished we have gone from a very good 3rd Division team, to an ok 3rd Division team and now to a crap 3rd division team.

Me and Pinchy are both lawyers. I suggest that on that evidence, one might thing that hoof is better for United than non-hoof. Or it might just be that Pinchy is talking bollocks and football isn't as Manichean as he suggests.
 

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