Basham

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robbiez666 said:
I just don't think we have the players to go 4 at the back.

We have 2 CBs who can play there.
We have 1 to 1.5 fullbacks who can
We have no defensive midfielder

As you mention, there was no pressure on their players in midfield.

We've conceded 4 goals in 2 games to two teams who don't score many goals away from home. Posh hadn't scored until they played us. Posh hadn't scored. Preston had scored 1 goal away from home before playing us.

Yes, we made errors, but every team makes errors in this league. Our fans seem to focus on errors made by our players and ignore errors made by the likes of the Posh kamikaze defence. In both of the last two games the opposition missed clear chances to score more and at times cut us open far too easily, despite playing on the break.

Unless we aim to outscore other teams, we're going to struggle with 4 at the back. Especially if we have any injuries or suspensions.

I'd rather play an under 23 than Robinson but that doesn't mean Laporta or Gordon will necessary be any better.
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I couldn't agree more. Slav's choices are:

1) change the shape to three at the back

2)Bring in a specialist DM whose job is to screen the back four (Slater/ Basham as stopgaps?) and stay goal side of their midfielders at all times.

3) Change the back four personnel and hope for the best.

4) A combination of 2 and 3

5) A combination of 1 and 2.

6)Keep it the same with the addition of Davies and outscore teams with hopefully less individual errors.
 

nopigfansintown said:
I couldn't agree more. Slav's choices are:

1) change the shape to three at the back

2)Bring in a specialist DM whose job is to screen the back four (Slater/ Basham as stopgaps?) and stay goal side of their midfielders at all times.

3) Change the back four personnel and hope for the best.

4) A combination of 2 and 3

5) A combination of 1 and 2.

6)Keep it the same with the addition of Davies and outscore teams with hopefully less individual errors.
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The lack of recruitment has really cost us. He's pretty much stuck whatever he does. Not bringing a DM in or wingers means he's really playing make to or mend. Whatever he decides is far from ideal and any changes just weakens another area. I think it's maybe doable with no injuries but it means we have to take all our chances. We did at the weekend. We didn't last night. It also relies on the opposition not taking all their chances.

We could easily have won, lost or drawn last night. I think that will continue mostly against mid-table teams. I think our weakness in the air and general lack of grit will cost us against some more muscular teams.

I don't think Bash has the legs any more for the DM role outside of a cameo. I don't think Slater's good enough.
 
Ok , well if Bash is at struggling stage , worra bout dis mean-looking free-agent fecker we've just signed - I wouldn't wanna meet him in a dark channel on the way into our penalty area if I was an opposition attacker
 
I believe in the old saying, "if it aint broke why fix it", and yes I do believe the attack and midfield were broke, but the defence was the only thing that remained anything like sound considering, despite the pressure they were under, how many games did we let in 5 goals in the Prem. last season ?
So Goalkeeper apart obviously, and injury's apart, why did it have to be changed ?

And if anyone starts babbling on about 3 and 4s a the back I shall scweam .....🤪🤪🤪
 
robbiez666 said:
The lack of recruitment has really cost us. He's pretty much stuck whatever he does. Not bringing a DM in or wingers means he's really playing make to or mend. Whatever he decides is far from ideal and any changes just weakens another area. I think it's maybe doable with no injuries but it means we have to take all our chances. We did at the weekend. We didn't last night. It also relies on the opposition not taking all their chances.

We could easily have won, lost or drawn last night. I think that will continue mostly against mid-table teams. I think our weakness in the air and general lack of grit will cost us against some more muscular teams.

I don't think Bash has the legs any more for the DM role outside of a cameo. I don't think Slater's good enough.
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Isn't Guedioura a DM?
 
I love Bash. I don't think he's great in the air though. He's better than Robinson in that regard but I think we'd still struggle in the air with him in the team. I wonder if Slav is keen to have a left footer playing there because it makes it easier when we're playing out from goalkicks to have both CBs playing on their 'correct' side?
 
cooperblade said:
I love Bash. I don't think he's great in the air though. He's better than Robinson in that regard but I think we'd still struggle in the air with him in the team. I wonder if Slav is keen to have a left footer playing there because it makes it easier when we're playing out from goalkicks to have both CBs playing on their 'correct' side?
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Could be. The short pass from the GK draws them out and gives us more opportunity to move the ball forward quickly. It’s huge for us.
 
nopigfansintown said:
I couldn't agree more. Slav's choices are:

1) change the shape to three at the back

2)Bring in a specialist DM whose job is to screen the back four (Slater/ Basham as stopgaps?) and stay goal side of their midfielders at all times.

3) Change the back four personnel and hope for the best.

4) A combination of 2 and 3

5) A combination of 1 and 2.

6)Keep it the same with the addition of Davies and outscore teams with hopefully less individual errors.
Click to expand...

Based on what Fulham fans say he will probably do number 6.
 
AdamSufc1997 said:
Isn't Guedioura a DM?
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I think thats why he brought him in to play that role or at least provide a more experienced head he can trust. He's been training with the team for nearly 4 weeks now so it must be close to final "vision"

I dont think we have seen Slav's final post-transfer-vision-play-with-what-we-managed-to-scrounge-together team yet.

Once all the new players start including Davies maybe we will see less "Wilderball" and more "Slavball".
 
I think people are getting their knickers in a twist over the height of our defence. Both goals yesterday were due to mistakes, not lack of height. Get Davies in and a few games under his belt and I’m not concerned. We don’t need dinosaurs back there, we need ability.
 
Zipwire said:
The only thing i can think, and this came to mind when the team was announced for the Birmingham game at the start of the season, and that is that Jokanovic doesn't rate Bash as a player.
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I think you are right. But that makes me rate him less as a manager.

Basham LOOKS terrible when he plays, but what he DOES is awesome
 

shorehamview said:
Congratulations to the Examiner on having a website that’s even shitter then the Star.
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Terrible isn’t it. Why are newspaper websites so crammed with ads and pop ups that make it impossible to read. It’s like they want you to stop reading! (Like I’ve done with the star)
 
Drop steady players like Bash - play strikers that cost millions that are hardly prolific - keep the usual midfield 2 in week in week out despite how shit.
I can see how it's working now.
 
I'm begining to worry about Slav. It's all well and good saying wait until he has his own players in but so far he's signed 4 and doesn't pick 2 of them.

Meanwhile he continues to pick players who are clearly struggling in the formation he's determined to play, whilst leaving Basham out of the side
 
blade67 said:
I'm begining to worry about Slav. It's all well and good saying wait until he has his own players in but so far he's signed 4 and doesn't pick 2 of them.

Meanwhile he continues to pick players who are clearly struggling in the formation he's determined to play, whilst leaving Basham out of the side
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Do you genuinely think he wanted those 4 though? I would suggest Olsen was his choice. Davies was always on the radar going back to CW. The others were what we could get last minute so we just got them. The only one who has done something is MGW who is class but I think he would be better playing at 10 or as an attacking cm in a 3. He's not a natural wide player. He wanted wide players, we for whatever reason didn't get them. We needed a defensive midfielder, yet we went for RV who is still yet train fully at sampdoria and it's November 😂 the recruitment since we got promoted and then relegated has been absolutely shocking.
 
Ballinpigpubs13 said:
Drop steady players like Bash - play strikers that cost millions that are hardly prolific - keep the usual midfield 2 in week in week out despite how shit.
I can see how it's working now.
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Who would you play in midfield instead? A lot on here have already written Hourihane off, there’s Guedioura as well I suppose but apart from that, do we have any other options?
 
LJBlade said:
Who would you play in midfield instead? A lot on here have already written Hourihane off, there’s Guedioura as well I suppose but apart from that, do we have any other options?
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If Guedioura is capable of actually tackling their players then I’d give him a go. It’s about time the opposition midfield realised they were in a game.
 
norwood sits adjacent to the back four and plays tip tap toe with them for 75% of the game.
basham can do that and tackle and carry the ball forward. He should replace Norwood and one of ndaye or MGW should drop deep ( but still in their half) to collect the ball and start attacks. This enables us to dictate play further up the pitch and have someone who can protect the back four.
 
blade67 said:
I'm begining to worry about Slav. It's all well and good saying wait until he has his own players in but so far he's signed 4 and doesn't pick 2 of them.

Meanwhile he continues to pick players who are clearly struggling in the formation he's determined to play, whilst leaving Basham out of the side
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I think he's signed 5 and picks 3, to be fair (Olsen, Davies and Gibbs-White always start when available, Hourihane has already blown it and Guedioura appears to never have been a serious first team option).
 
Guesty said:
I think he's signed 5 and picks 3, to be fair (Olsen, Davies and Gibbs-White always start when available, Hourihane has already blown it and Guedioura appears to never have been a serious first team option).
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That's right, I think I'd missed out Davies.

FWIW my 1st 11 would be

Olsen
Bash - Egan - Davies
Bogle - Norwood - Fleck - Osborn
MGW - Sharp - Ndayie

Berge might take a midfield slot when he's fit
Moose if fit could take Sharp's shirt

IThat formation suits the best players we have, I'd be happy to see a completely different approach once we have the players to play it
 
robbiez666 said:
He can't play in a back four. Never has been able to. Was the defender sacrificed every time under Wilder. Terrible there under previous managers.

We'd maybe be better off giving one of the youngsters a go.
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Can't play in a back 4? Neither can any of those who played yesterday. I'd play him in midfield he has all the attributes to do the job, good in the air, strong in the tackle and can run with the ball at his feet unlike norwood or fleck
 
Should be playing with Egan an Davies in a back 3.

Similar to above, but I'd play Brewster up top in the middle.
 

blade67 said:
That's right, I think I'd missed out Davies.

FWIW my 1st 11 would be

Olsen
Bash - Egan - Davies
Bogle - Norwood - Fleck - Osborn
MGW - Sharp - Ndayie

Berge might take a midfield slot when he's fit
Moose if fit could take Sharp's shirt

IThat formation suits the best players we have, I'd be happy to see a completely different approach once we have the players to play it
Click to expand...

I'm in favour of a back 3 but imo this highlights why we're playing with a 4. The spine is so soft and when attacked those back 7 don't have much physicality between them.

The traditional '3 at the back' formations (352 and 343) require something from the midfield that we simply don't have. You either need a protector and a creator, or a unit that works as an engine.

Until SJ gets the players he wants in all positions, I wonder if a Bielsa-style 3331 could be a temporary solution.

Bashan - Egan - Davies

Bogle - Norwood - Stevens

Ndiaye - MGW - Osborn

Mousset

This easily becomes a back 5 when under attack but still gives the 3 behind a advanced forward, which SJ clearly prefers.

It's also pretty interchangeable and flexible. Our current system with these players means that any sub causes some kind of imbalance.
 
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