Basham

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He can't play in a back four. Never has been able to. Was the defender sacrificed every time under Wilder. Terrible there under previous managers.

We'd maybe be better off giving one of the youngsters a go.
 
robbiez666 said:
He can't play in a back four. Never has been able to. Was the defender sacrificed every time under Wilder. Terrible there under previous managers.

We'd maybe be better off giving one of the youngsters a go.
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Robinson can't either.

Also can't remember Bash playing CB before he was installed as RCB in a 3?
 
It's a mystery to me too. The only attribute I can see that JR has over Basham is a long throw.

There's something we can learn from PNE tonight - a brave, well built, 6ft3 athlete who can play just a bit is enough in the Championship to make you hard to beat.

In the absence of JOC, that's what we're lacking alongside Egan and I am not quite convinced that Davies is the answer neither.
 
Blacksea said:
So unless Lopata makes good or JOC comes back,we need to get 2 centre backs in for next season
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piss poor recruiting that he’s apparently our 3 best CB.

chances of Egan and Davies not missing any games between bow and the end of the season is next to impossible

we are going to see jack ‘the turd that won’t flush’ Robinson back a good few more times unfortunately with injuries and suspensions
 
Bruce Wayne said:
What's he done so wrong to fall behind Robinson in the pecking order?
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Only thing I can think is that he can’t play with Egan in a 4… Egan seems uncomfortable on the right cb alongside robbo, nothing against robbo but he’s just not cutting it. So Davies has to play next game alongside Egan…

bash has so much to give, surely he can play right of a back four?
 
robbiez666 said:
He can't play in a back four. Never has been able to. Was the defender sacrificed every time under Wilder. Terrible there under previous managers.

We'd maybe be better off giving one of the youngsters a go.
Click to expand...
I think that's a massive overstatement. I really do. This myth that he can't play in a back 4 has really grown legs, like all of a sudden one of our most capable and consistent players would somehow turn to jelly with a slight system change.

When in recent times and I don't mean under say, Adkins, when everyone was garbage, has he played in a back 4 and been bad? He's just had 2 years of PL experience defending vs the best players in the world. Are we saying he doesn't have the qualities or experience to operate in a back 4 against Preston?

Wilder always sacrificed him but that was down to the personnel at the time, Egan, O'Connell and Basham, all similar in overall ability. You wouldn't sacrifice the fulcrum, Egan, if going more attacking and you'd unlikely remove the left footed option for balance. But the overriding factor for O'Connell was his ability.

Are we saying that Robinson is a better option than Basham, just because his main foot is his left one? That's the competition. Basham is literally better at every aspect of the game from outright defending to bringing the ball out, to passing to his own teammates to clearing the ball.
 
Champagneblade said:
I think that's a massive overstatement. I really do. This myth that he can't play in a back 4 has really grown legs, like all of a sudden one of our most capable and consistent players would somehow turn to jelly with a slight system change.

When in recent times and I don't mean under say, Adkins, when everyone was garbage, has he played in a back 4 and been bad? He's just had 2 years of PL experience defending vs the best players in the world. Are we saying he doesn't have the qualities or experience to operate in a back 4 against Preston?

Wilder always sacrificed him but that was down to the personnel at the time, Egan, O'Connell and Basham, all similar in overall ability. You wouldn't sacrifice the fulcrum, Egan, if going more attacking and you'd unlikely remove the left footed option for balance. But the overriding factor for O'Connell was his ability.

Are we saying that Robinson is a better option than Basham, just because his main foot is his left one? That's the competition. Basham is literally better at every aspect of the game from outright defending to bringing the ball out, to passing to his own teammates to clearing the ball.
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I couldn’t agree more .

This is a fallacy which has been perpetuated on here for a long time without a shred of evidence to support it .

In fact , the only time he has been in that position in recent times was against Swansea away when he had an excellent game .

Whilst I find the abuse hurled at Jack Robinson on here distasteful , the fact remains that he is prone to errors and is nowhere near as competent defender as Bash and the fact that he is preferred to him , in any formation , is quite mystifying .
 
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The only thing i can think, and this came to mind when the team was announced for the Birmingham game at the start of the season, and that is that Jokanovic doesn't rate Bash as a player.
 



SwissBlade said:
Only thing I can think is that he can’t play with Egan in a 4… Egan seems uncomfortable on the right cb alongside robbo, nothing against robbo but he’s just not cutting it. So Davies has to play next game alongside Egan…

bash has so much to give, surely he can play right of a back four?
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I would actually put Bash in at right back atm over Furious. Furious looks a bit lost in this new system as he gets no support when he goes forwards and attacks usually (apart from one excellent run tonite when he combined with Berge) peter out or reset backwards. Bash would be more effective foraging forwards (with the odd pirouette….😊) by himself and would probably do a good enough job defensively as he understands positionally both the RB/RWB and RCB positions. Plus, I just feel bad (after being the only player that held his head up high last season) that he can’t get into the team atm. Yep, mebbe a little sentimental but…
 
And some might say if, you’re going to give George a rest, then why not play Bogle but I just find he is so keen in getting into advanced positions, he just goes AWOL whether it be at RB or RWB (he could usually be found around the penalty spot in many of our attacks last year when he played - mebbe Slav can I instill more discipline in him than CW or Hecky could)
 
GreenhillBladeinToronto said:
And with Davies at LCB
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Even if you exclude the bombscare Robbo + there is not enough height in Egan & Davies to defend the aerial assault from big lads in the Championship.
You need Lopata in there somehow or you need Bash at RB to add height to our defence.
We are fatally vulnerable to aerial bombardment and EVERY Championship team knows it.
Get ready to ship more aerial goals until this flaw is rectified.
No chance of promotion by any means until we can defend simple aerial situations.
 
Bash played a good chunk of his initial games for us in 2014/15 at CH in a conventional 4, and did just fine.

Yes, it was in a lower league, but he’s had half a career‘s worth of experience since then, and has coped defensively in a 3 at the top level.

If Lopata isn’t ready yet—he looked promising but still very young v Derby last month—then Bash has got to be a better bet than Robinson.
 
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GreenhillBladeinToronto said:
I would actually put Bash in at right back atm over Furious. Furious looks a bit lost in this new system as he gets no support when he goes forwards and attacks usually (apart from one excellent run tonite when he combined with Berge) peter out or reset backwards. Bash would be more effective foraging forwards (with the odd pirouette….😊) by himself and would probably do a good enough job defensively as he understands positionally both the RB/RWB and RCB positions. Plus, I just feel bad (after being the only player that held his head up high last season) that he can’t get into the team atm. Yep, mebbe a little sentimental but…
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I like your thinking, but i don't think Bash gets us in behind the defenders like Baldock does. The role has changed from having a supportive overlad on the Right with a midfielder and a RCB, it worked with Lunny and Bash, for a period of time.

Now we have Berge/ Gibbs-White/ Freeman/ Ndiaye supporting down the wings in a more advanced position, then need someone pacey with them to get behind the last man and put the cross in.

I'd like Bash in at Centre Half as he offers the defensive side better than Robinson on the left... Perhaps its time for something like Bash and Davies....
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
Whilst I find the abuse hurled at Jack Robinson on here distasteful , the fact remains that he is prone to errors and is nowhere near as competent defender as Bash and the fact that he is preferred to him , in any formation , is quite mystifying .
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Some of it may be distasteful but the criticism is 100% justified.....he is nothing short of a liability.
 
Could Basham play alongside Fleck instead of Norwood and play as a deeper lying cover for the 2 CB’s in defence? This might help us out if we play Lopata at CB, a bit more experience around him and Bash in midfield might lighten the defensive load
 
robbiez666 said:
He can't play in a back four. Never has been able to. Was the defender sacrificed every time under Wilder. Terrible there under previous managers.

We'd maybe be better off giving one of the youngsters a go.
Click to expand...

He was never worse than Robinson though. Plus its such an outdated notion, the lad has improved immensely in the five years since he last played in a two, and also won a POTY in the process. Making lazy assumptions about his ability to play in a back four do him such a disservice. He'd be stronger in the air and quicker to track runners than Robinson ever will. Automatically he's a better option there when Davies is injured.
 
Keen Blade said:
Even if you exclude the bombscare Robbo + there is not enough height in Egan & Davies to defend the aerial assault from big lads in the Championship.
You need Lopata in there somehow or you need Bash at RB to add height to our defence.
We are fatally vulnerable to aerial bombardment and EVERY Championship team knows it.
Get ready to ship more aerial goals until this flaw is rectified.
No chance of promotion by any means until we can defend simple aerial situations.
Click to expand...

If you play four at the back you need more height than if you play five: your players have to more space aerially and more men. The two centre backs also have to be quicker as you have to be able to cover more ground on the floor. If your defensive midfield players are slow at covering the ground and tracking runners your centre backs will have to do even more than that. A good example yesterday was Johnson's goal and the passage where he slipped the forward through for the one on one.

This begs obvious questions:

Do we have the height and aerial prowess to play four at the back, particularly with Robinson in the team?

Do we have to revert to different personnel to make it work, or play three at the back to compensate for this inadequacy?

Does four at the back suit any of our defensive players?

Do we have the midfield players to play it or do they expose the centre backs too often?
 
nopigfansintown said:
If you play four at the back you need more height than if you play five: your players have to more space aerially and more men. The two centre backs also have to be quicker as you have to be able to cover more ground on the floor. If your defensive midfield players are slow at covering the ground and tracking runners your centre backs will have to do even more than that. A good example yesterday was Johnson's goal and the passage where he slipped the forward through for the one on one.

This begs obvious questions:

Do we have the height and aerial prowess to play four at the back, particularly with Robinson in the team?

Do we have to revert to different personnel to make it work, or play three at the back to compensate for this inadequacy?

Does four at the back suit any of our defensive players?

Do we have the midfield players to play it or do they expose the centre backs too often?
Click to expand...

I just don't think we have the players to go 4 at the back.

We have 2 CBs who can play there.
We have 1 to 1.5 fullbacks who can
We have no defensive midfielder

As you mention, there was no pressure on their players in midfield.

We've conceded 4 goals in 2 games to two teams who don't score many goals away from home. Posh hadn't scored until they played us. Posh hadn't scored. Preston had scored 1 goal away from home before playing us.

Yes, we made errors, but every team makes errors in this league. Our fans seem to focus on errors made by our players and ignore errors made by the likes of the Posh kamikaze defence. In both of the last two games the opposition missed clear chances to score more and at times cut us open far too easily, despite playing on the break.

Unless we aim to outscore other teams, we're going to struggle with 4 at the back. Especially if we have any injuries or suspensions.

I'd rather play an under 23 than Robinson but that doesn't mean Laporta or Gordon will necessary be any better.
 



Blaming Robinson for their equaliser is just down right pathetic
 
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