Back for SOD after relegation?

[beechblade]

Speaking from experience ,O'Driscoll is an absolute disaster for bringing young players on. Lee Butler coaches my keepers every now and then and we play their junior sides in pre season friendlies every year. O'Driscoll has torn the youth set up apart and has no interest in it whatsoever ,I would even go as far as saying he has sabotaged it to release money for the senior level.

Rotherham have a better youth set up, and better coaches in place for it too.

 

[lenners]

The way SOD's talked about Donny's set up is that it is overwhelmingly focused on the first team and they simply don't have the facilities or money or ambition to have strong youth set up.
In a sense, why would they? Most quality kids in Donny ought to go to either Sheffield club or Leeds.

 

[sitwell]

Of the 6 sides in the area ,Utd is by miles the best followed in order by
Rotherham
Pigs
Chesterfield
Dingles
Donny
but Forest ,Derby and Huddersfield are the clubs to go to in my opinion.

 

[ListerBlade]

I think that we've had our last chance of luring him (thanks for the KmC)

For me, we are going down, today has just seemed to confirm it-we have a massive uphill battle now and it could be worse after tuesday!!

Let's let Micky fulfill his dream of being a Blades manager (and sending us down) until the summer. In the meantime start negotiations with WBA/Di Matteo about the possibility of getting him in at the end of the season (I mention club and manager as he's on gardening leave and I don't know who'd need to be contacted). In the summer we can then begin with a blank canvas, get rid of as much of the playing squad as possible and bring in new faces that will work with Matteo to once again try to move this club forward (as we were supposed to be doing with the appointment of Speed).

Micky was far from my firs choice of manager (look at all the other clubs who have taken on new managers since in this league and how they have changed performances and got results), but we have him and I've been and will carry on to be behind him in the vain hope he might actually produce a miracle and get a win or two. It seems he is not cut out for this job, he should have won a game by now-if he wasn't a Blade would everyone be so accommodating to him?

I've had enough of the managerial merry-go-round since Warnock left, but we need to make the right choice of leader, and Micky ain't that in my opinion. If we are going down there is no excuse to not start with a blank canvas. I say give Micky while the end of the season because changing a manager now won't help at all. But at the end of the season we'll know where we are at.

If it's a possibility, it's Di Matteo in for me.

 

[sitwell]

The way SOD's talked about Donny's set up is that it is overwhelmingly focused on the first team and they simply don't have the facilities or money or ambition to have strong youth set up.
In a sense, why would they? Most quality kids in Donny ought to go to either Sheffield club or Leeds.

It is O'driscoll who made it that way ,although Penney wasn't very good for youth football either. They had the money and decent facilities but SOD has virtually closed it down ,a decision which doesn't sit well with a lot of people at Donny. The junior leagues are also surprisingly poor in comparison to the rest of South and West Yorkshire despite the size of the area ,their teams get knocked out of county cup competitions very early and many decent players travel into Sheffield to play.

 

[beechblade]

I don't think anyone's expecting Barcelona but we have brought through two Premiership quality players recently and have a current decent crop because we did invest in infrastructure.
We've certainly attracted better quality local young players ie well ahead of our competitor because of that set-up.
We then appear to have little idea how to go on from there.

One factor I can think of, no matter how good a player, if their attitude isn't right they'll not make it simple as. Maybe some of the better players just haven't had the right attitude.

But another factor could also be down to previous management teams and to the backroom staff, I can't really comment on our infastructure above the Academy level, I just don't know enough as to what goes on.

 

[lenners]

Sorry but I can't see SOD as the reason for Donny not having a great youth set up.
Geographically, they must be in the weakest position of any regional club with the three biggest clubs all in easy distance.
I also don't see him as someone short-sighted enough not to recognise that a good youth set-up at a bigger club can reap rewards.

 

[beechblade]

It is O'driscoll who made it that way ,although Penney wasn't very good for youth football either. They had the money and decent facilities but SOD has virtually closed it down ,a decision which doesn't sit well with a lot of people at Donny. The junior leagues are also surprisingly poor in comparison to the rest of South and West Yorkshire despite the size of the area ,their teams get knocked out of county cup competitions very early and many decent players travel into Sheffield to play.

Very true, they don't have a good league running from under 7's-10's, Barnsley has the better league in the millennium, Sheffield and Hallamshire is a great one but the distances to travel for younger players can be excessive, the under 11's onwards is better, but still miles behind Sheffield and Hallamshire.

 

[lenners]

One factor I can think of, no matter how good a player, if their attitude isn't right they'll not make it simple as. Maybe some of the better players just haven't had the right attitude.

But another factor could also be down to previous management teams and to the backroom staff, I can't really comment on our infastructure above the Academy level, I just don't know enough as to what goes on.

It's partly because we talked the talk but are fightened of walking the walk.
If I remember rightly, Naughton got in by default and Walker only got in when Naysmith got injured when he was clearly more than ready.
We're in a mess now and I could see why Adams would be wary of chucking any kids in but longer term I'm not seeing the connection between a sophisticated approach at academy level and nothing like that at first team level.

 

[beechblade]

Sorry but I can't see SOD as the reason for Donny not having a great youth set up.
Geographically, they must be in the weakest position of any regional club with the three biggest clubs all in easy distance.
I also don't see him as someone short-sighted enough not to recognise that a good youth set-up at a bigger club can reap rewards.

I wouldn' say they are, Rotherham and Chesterfield are because of league status, club size, I've not met a Donny scout for the younger players yet, but I've come across and met a few Rotherham coaches and Barnsley coaches. And have had contact with both Sheffield clubs, heck even Man City have reached this far out. I don't think they reach out enough to local clubs.

 

[lenners]

I wouldn' say they are, Rotherham and Chesterfield are because of league status, club size, I've not met a Donny scout for the younger players yet, but I've come across and met a few Rotherham coaches and Barnsley coaches. And have had contact with both Sheffield clubs, heck even Man City have reached this far out.

Aye and I'd say that in my lifetime, Doncaster have comfortably been the smallest and least successful of any of the six local clubs - until the last couple of years or so.

 

[sitwell]

Sorry but I can't see SOD as the reason for Donny not having a great youth set up.
Geographically, they must be in the weakest position of any regional club with the three biggest clubs all in easy distance.
I also don't see him as someone short-sighted enough not to recognise that a good youth set-up at a bigger club can reap rewards.

Why can't you see anything wrong with O'Driscoll. If he was our manager now you would be savaging him for training methods resulting in the injury list , ruining the youth set up ,not communicating with fans , taking injury prone big earners on loan, playing dull losing football and basically losing the plot. But because he is someone elses manager you won't hear a thing against him. O'Driscoll is in it for himself , no-one else and he is being found out, he has done well because not a lot was expected of Donny and both he and Ryan built this false impression of the Arsenal of the North, but listen to a lot of their fans now, they are not happy.

 

[lenners]

I like the way Donny play, I like what he says about developing footballers and I respect the success he's had.
Don't see how he's any more in it for himself than Adams or any other manager or player. He hardly cuts a figure desperate for self-promotion.
It's a bit more odd why anyone would take a big dislike to him.

 

[shorehamview]

It's a bit more odd why anyone would take a big dislike to him.

He goes badger-baiting. And drowns kittens while listening to Kajagoogoo.



Allegedly....

 

[Sirius]

Looking at Doncasters recent reversion to type, they will be lucky to avoid the drop. Remind me, did they not get hammered at the keepmoat recently. SOD has had his 15 minutes of fame. No thanks

 

[Russ]

The man is a real bore

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I like the way Donny play, I like what he says about developing footballers and I respect the success he's had.
Don't see how he's any more in it for himself than Adams or any other manager or player. He hardly cuts a figure desperate for self-promotion.
It's a bit more odd why anyone would take a big dislike to him.

Not odd at all. He's boring, Donny are boring and his bubble has well & truly burst. Adams may not be up to it but SOD is not the answer.

 

[sitwell]

I have seen Donny play about 10 times under O'Driscoll and I cannot see why anyone likes the way they play. Its is mind numbingley boring to watch average defensive midfielders and defenders pass it across the pitch until they bore the opposition into submission. Even when they have played us (and we have been very poor) they haven't impressed. Ryan and O'driscoll (and those fawning unknowledgeable wankers at RS) have created this misconception about them and it is all falling down around their ears. Look at their attendances ,is that compatible with champagne football ? Ironically the nightmare appointment of O'Driscoll clone Speed at our place maybe the reason they actually stay in this division but it will be close.

 

[Deadbat]

I have seen Donny play about 10 times under O'Driscoll and I cannot see why anyone likes the way they play. Its is mind numbingley boring to watch average defensive midfielders and defenders pass it across the pitch until they bore the opposition into submission. Even when they have played us (and we have been very poor) they haven't impressed. Ryan and O'driscoll (and those fawning unknowledgeable wankers at RS) have created this misconception about them and it is all falling down around their ears. Look at their attendances ,is that compatible with champagne football ? Ironically the nightmare appointment of O'Driscoll clone Speed at our place maybe the reason they actually stay in this division but it will be close.

From what I know I agree with the comments about SOD and the academy. He aint interested in using academy players but essentially he knows that the set up and the lack of resources/coaches/scouts for the youth set up means they do not have the best youth set up/team and thus seems to prefer to use first team players and has not gone down this route. If their is no decent players coming through surely he can't pick any? I fail to see how SOD can be blamed for Doncaster's decisions to pretty much use funds on the stadium/first team (money for players like Sharp for instance). surely it is John Ryan's decision and it aint been a bad one in terms of what they have done.

They have had their most successful spell in their history maybe so it has worked (this strategy).

Doncaster are struggling at the moment but O'Driscoll has done a phenomenal job on limited resources there and for them to be a respected mid table championship club with the crowds they get and lack of income/size of the club is very impressive. Sitwell you talk of the crowds but they have never got particularly big crowds? You cant suddenly create fans that dont exist.

He his having a sticky spell now but a few bad months out of 3 seaons aint bad; espcailly considering the lack of resources and wage bill they have.

Would O'Driscoll have been the answer at the Lane? I am not sure. I would have prefereed him to Adams, as I said at the time. I wanted us to think out of the box a bit and do something different. We were going nowhere anyway. Birch seemed to agree but McCabe did not. What did we have to lose? If we went down then we tried. I said at the time the Adams appointment was a poor, cheap option that would end in disaster. I hate being proved right in that respect but he appears a dead man walking at the moment. I think anyone who came in would have struggled with a really poor squad but his start and record is a disaster and whatever the situation and what they inherited (see Simpson-Stockport) a manager who keeps going on losing week after week will get sacked. He knows that and deep down knows 4 or 5 more games without a win and he wiill either be pushed or will have to walk away.

If they do fail to win the next 2 games I would see about terminating as many of the loans as they can, saving some cash and blood some kids in readniess for next season when we will have to rely on a mixture of the contracted players we cannot get rid of (Quinn, Cresswell, Evans - wages, Doyle, Collins, Simonsen) and young players.

Ultimately all of the above matters little. I ultimately dont blame Adams, Speed, Blackwell, Robson, Robinson for our fate but McCabe. He is the one who appointed all of the above and sanctioned awful signings, bad decisions on and off the pitch and allowed the sales of our better players.

In an ideal world, he would write off his debts, walk away and let someone else have a go. The problem is he has too much money in the club and also who is going to be interested in a league one club where they owe debts of 50 million (most to McCabe) and have no saleable assets on the pitch and seem to be heading to football oblivion?

It is hard to see how we are going to get out of the mess? What do we do? Protest at the manager? Whats the point? Even if he sacks them then his record at choosing managers suggests a change will matter little? Protesting against McCabe will achieve nothing as he wont walk away for the aforementioned reasons?

Have a good weekend folks!

 

[sitwell]

Of course the decision is O'Driscolls ,and the funds aren't used on the stadium ,they don't own the stadium. Keepmoat own the stadium hence the ridiculous decision not to spend any money on undersoil heating.I do think Ryan has to much input with the football and O'Driscoll obviously bites his tongue and puts up with it and I would wager the signings of Kilgallon and Healy were as much to do with Ryans ego as O'Driscolls strategy but the fact is O'Driscoll is not interested in nurturing young players ,his record is plain to see.
As for the crowds ,they are just small they are pitifull ,Doncaster and the surrounding area is not small ,and while history,tradition and ridiculous pricing has a lot to do with it ,the boring football also plays a part.

 

[Deadbat]

Drfc

Of course the decision is O'Driscolls ,and the funds aren't used on the stadium ,they don't own the stadium. Keepmoat own the stadium hence the ridiculous decision not to spend any money on undersoil heating.I do think Ryan has to much input with the football and O'Driscoll obviously bites his tongue and puts up with it and I would wager the signings of Kilgallon and Healy were as much to do with Ryans ego as O'Driscolls strategy but the fact is O'Driscoll is not interested in nurturing young players ,his record is plain to see.
As for the crowds ,they are just small they are pitifull ,Doncaster and the surrounding area is not small ,and while history,tradition and ridiculous pricing has a lot to do with it ,the boring football also plays a part.

The decision is O'Driscoll's on selction/nuturing of players but if there are no good players coming through then you cant pick them? I dont think O'Driscoll has carte blanche on financial/football decisions such as whether Doncaster would go for Academy status (a massive factor for many youngster in deciding clubs whatever people think).

I know there is a divide between Doncaster's youth team set up and the first team. I know one of the coaches-he actually says they do not attract the best young players and there aint many coming through that should be considered for the first team - he is a bit embarrased saying this as he works for them and it is hos job but was honest to say this. However, he feels much of it derives from Ryan who is not interested in spending money on this side and his priority is the first team. You cannot argue with this in recent times and the results and what they have done over the last 5-10 years in this regard but as you say this is not going to equate to a sustainable future and when SOD, Sharp, Stock etc move on; then I am not sure how they can sustain the success. I still maintain O'Driscoll has done a remarkable job considering no youth set up to speak of, low crowds and lack of basic infrastrucutre at the club (as you say the undersoil hearing decision is a farce).

What I would add about the crowds is I am surprised that more fans dont go but you cannot argue that DRFC have been more successful in last 2-3 years and had highest league ranking, maybe ever and the crowds still dont go. I really dont think the Doncaster public think 'That football is over played and does not do it for me; I would rather more excitement...then I would go!' Do you seriously think it matters who the manager/style is that is dictating the crowds? The crowds have never been there over the whole history of DRFC and the only way they suddenly get better crowds is if they go up the Prem (then it would be the Barnsley affect with crowds). The public of Doncaster just are not interested and a new stadium, decent manager and them punching above their weight aint going to get them there, then nothing will.

Maybe it is boring football but it will still be enough to keep them in the division (due to excellent first half of the season) and probably will see them around the championship for a few more years yet. Give me that over what we are seeing/have had to watch. However, I do agree that loing term DRFC will be around the lower reaches of the pyramid in 10 years time when Ryan takes his money out or loses interest and realises he is flogging a dead horse. Whether we will be in a similiar position remains to be seen.

 

[oldblade]

Why can't you see anything wrong with O'Driscoll. If he was our manager now you would be savaging him for training methods resulting in the injury list , ruining the youth set up ,not communicating with fans , taking injury prone big earners on loan, playing dull losing football and basically losing the plot. But because he is someone elses manager you won't hear a thing against him. O'Driscoll is in it for himself , no-one else and he is being found out, he has done well because not a lot was expected of Donny and both he and Ryan built this false impression of the Arsenal of the North, but listen to a lot of their fans now, they are not happy.

The Arsenal of the north bit I have never understood, and like you I think it's a false impression.

Even when they got their first ever league win at Bramall Lane (season before last) I didn't think they were particularly good. Neat and tidy, yes. But not a spectacular passing side and with very little incisiveness. We lost that match because we were very, very poor that evening, not because they were any good. Bradford Park Avenue would have beaten us that night.

And last season we completely out footballed them. They scored just before halt time with a break away goal that was down to some very sloppy defending, And that was just about the only chance they had all match. We had them on the wrack for most of the game, but just couldn't score.

 

[sitwell]

I think they have peaked and it will be a steady journey back down the leagues. Chesterfield have and Rotherham are starting on a similar path of new stadia and momentum will probably see them overtake Donny in a couple of years ,but like Donny they have poor junior set ups.
Whether our set up which is light years ahead of anything in the area pays dividends will be interesting to see. Talking to a well known ex employee of the academy last week ,he told me that Blackwell had undone nearly all the good work done by the academy under the Warnock regime ,and Speed and Robson didn't have time to put any ideas in motion. But he would love to go back after hearing the plans Adams has and things are looking very promising again.
This is one of the reasons I am pro Adams ,I think we have to keep our nerve and get some stability back in club even if we are relegated.

 

[oldblade]

I like the way Donny play, I like what he says about developing footballers and I respect the success he's had.
Don't see how he's any more in it for himself than Adams or any other manager or player. He hardly cuts a figure desperate for self-promotion.
It's a bit more odd why anyone would take a big dislike to him.

You like the way that Doncaster play? In that case I don't see how you could have hated the way we played under Warnock so much, because that was much better than anything I have ever seen Doncaster serve up.

 

[lenners]

Oh dear, very sad to see some of our fans so blinded by envy.
Donny's crowds were under 1,000 about a decade ago.
I seem to recall them beating us at an absolute canter at the Keepmoat this season.
The council owns the ground, not Keepmoat. The club pays rent for it.
Pembo has a clear footballing philosophy at the one reasonable strength we have at this club.
What sense is there in not building from the bottom up?
We are a club with absolutely no footballing identity and we need to find one. More hoofball won't work, the game has moved on.

 

[Deadbat]

But he would love to go back after hearing the plans Adams has and things are looking very promising again.
This is one of the reasons I am pro Adams ,I think we have to keep our nerve and get some stability back in club even if we are relegated.

What are Adams plans? Interesting to hear. He may not be around to bring these in unfortunately because as much as I agree about the stability if he continue losing games he will get sacked sooner rahter than later. That is the nature of football.

My main gripe is actually an agreement with lenners in that we wanted to change the philosophy of the club and look at a progressive, passing appproach and that was Pemberton's remit when he was brought in. Birch's comments indiated they wanted to continue this through to the first team but Adams' appointment and his 'cause some carnage' comments suggests this was completely at odds with said strategy.

Going back to the first team there has to be a point when you say things are not working. His signings, team selection, comments to the media, performances and more than anything results have all been very poor. Most neutrals I speak to were amazed we appointed a journeyman, on the way down after several failures, league two manager and most of them now feel it is a matter of time before he leaves. If we continue with the results/performances and go down I fail to see what he will have offered to suggest he would be the man to take us forward.

My opinion of course and I hope I am wrong and he can get us out of this mess. I have nothing against him as a person and would love a Blade to get us going again but at the moment things have got worse under Adams not better and at the moment we are going to go down without even a whimper.

 

[oldblade]

Oh dear, very sad to see some of our fans so blinded by envy.
Donny's crowds were under 1,000 about a decade ago.
I seem to recall them beating us at an absolute canter at the Keepmoat this season.
The council owns the ground, not Keepmoat. The club pays rent for it.
Pembo has a clear footballing philosophy at the one reasonable strength we have at this club.
What sense is there in not building from the bottom up?
We are a club with absolutely no footballing identity and we need to find one. More hoofball won't work, the game has moved on.

Len, most teams have been beating us at a canter this season. And most of those teams have been pretty average. We are just appalling.

Yes, Doncaster are better than us, and O'Driscoll has done well for them. I wouldn't be so foolish as to try and deny that. But they are not particularly good to watch. Whether or not O'Driscoll would be able to do a good job at Bramall Lane, I really don't know one way or the other. But, whilst the football might end up being better than is now (it would be hard not to improve!), I think people would be very disappointed if they expect to see a lower level Arsenal of the north. Warnock's teams were more entertaining.

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------

What are Adams plans? Interesting to hear. He may not be around to bring these in unfortunately because as much as I agree about the stability if he continue losing games he will get sacked sooner rahter than later. That is the nature of football.

My main gripe is actually an agreement with lenners in that we wanted to change the philosophy of the club and look at a progressive, passing appproach and that was Pemberton's remit when he was brought in. Birch's comments indiated they wanted to continue this through to the first team but Adams' appointment and his 'cause some carnage' comments suggests this was completely at odds with said strategy.

Going back to the first team there has to be a point when you say things are not working. His signings, team selection, comments to the media, performances and more than anything results have all been very poor. Most neutrals I speak to were amazed we appointed a journeyman, on the way down after several failures, league two manager and most of them now feel it is a matter of time before he leaves. If we continue with the results/performances and go down I fail to see what he will have offered to suggest he would be the man to take us forward.

My opinion of course and I hope I am wrong and he can get us out of this mess. I have nothing against him as a person and would love a Blade to get us going again but at the moment things have got worse under Adams not better and at the moment we are going to go down without even a whimper.

Interesting that we will feel able to sack a manager and thereby have to pay him a settlement fee. And yet we don't feel able to keep Adams but allow him sufficient funds to buy players of any quality.

 

[lenners]

Sadly, some of our fans are infected with the Blades Way virus and can no longer see good footbal when it's in front of their eyes.
Fair enough, get some more big lads in, hoof it up and let's try and be Stoke.
But in that case, let's get rid of the academy, sell off some of the land and spend the dosh on some athletes and 6ft plussers instead.

 

[oldblade]

Sadly, some of our fans are infected with the Blades Way virus and can no longer see good footbal when it's in front of their eyes.
Fair enough, get some more big lads in, hoof it up and let's try and be Stoke.
But in that case, let's get rid of the academy, sell off some of the land and spend the dosh on some athletes and 6ft plussers instead.

If you are trying to say that Warnock's teams were simply comprised of big lads and the sole tactic was to hoof it up to them, then I think it is probably you who cannot see good football when it's in front of your eyes.

 

[lenners]

If you are trying to say that Warnock's teams were simply comprised of big lads and the sole tactic was to hoof it up to them, then I think it is probably you who cannot see good football when it's in front of your eyes.

We had two and a half good seasons out of 8 under Warnock and he certainly had more funds than SOD up until this year.
He hardly left a footballing legacy that helped us get straight back up like West Brom or Bolton managed did he.
I can see good football and I know that Donny fans can see what SOD's done there.
But this is also much bigger than SOD or Adams, it's about what we're about as a football club, what we're trying to achieve, how we're trying to achieve it.
The club said one thing at the AGM, then did another.
For me, the one thing that the club has a relative strength in at the moment is the academy. Amazingly, that's down to investment and a clear footballing strategy.
Even more amazingly, this relatively simple concept seems beyond McCabe when it comes to where it really matters.