Arsenal match thread

[Sharpy]

shef fu played well against reading

????????????wtf? No we didnt.

We played reading twice last season and we were the better side both games, this season they are SOOOOOOO far infront of us its scary.

They have a manager who tells his team to go out and play attacking, free flowing football that suits there game.

We have a manager who sends out shite teams, with shite negative long ball tactics and who's main objective this season is to 'enoy himself'. We go out to stop other teams playing, we dont play to our strengths.

We will go down with warnock in charge.

At the end of last season and start of this season I was right about jagielka in midfield, unsworth at left back and now warnock is doing what i knew he would do.

 

[mrteabag]

lol it wasnt that high of a kick really then he must have lifted his foot off floor by 2 inches lol

 

[Come from away]

If being a Manager were simply about picking a team we could all be rich. We have been competitive in all our games. We can't score goals if we keep giving it up in midfield. So, we either find a combination that works or we buy one. If we don't get a solution by January, then panic. We are playing to stay up not to get into Europe, there are still lots of games.

 

[TonyAgana]

We're all a bit deluded on this messageboard, aren't we?* When was the last time we went out with the game plan "don't concede... that's it" and actually came out with a result? We're not good enough to defend teams like Arsenal and hope for a point, and neither are Reading. That's why Reading go out and just play their game, with pretty much the same team as last season, and get results. That's why Coppell is a better manager than Warnock.




*except Sharpy!

 

[Foxy]

I think I must have attended a completely different match to most, given that I actually saw us go at Arsenal and create some chances.

We did nothing like just going to defend, we got forward whenever we could and gave it a good go, we even had the ball in the back of the net way before Arsenal.

Unfortunately we tired and went to sleep for the last 20 mins against a team who (without checking) I'd suggest didn't have a player who wasn't at the World Cup.

We did very well until they walked over us in the last 20 mins.

 

[BV]

I really think people are confusing defending well with playing well, they're not the same thing. Yes, for an hour against Arsenal we defended well, but we didn't attack them, we barely got in their box, and other than the disallowed goal (cracking strike by the way) we didn’t look like scoring. For me that’s been the story of our season so far. It’s not good enough to go and defend, we need to score goals. I thought CKR had some good touches, and his control looks awesome, but he was completely ineffectual on Saturday. I feel sorry for Hulse, he looks class but he has to do so much work on his own and looks isolated when he has the ball. Davis looked like a good player, and it’s a real shame that he’s been missing for the early part of the season. The simple fact now is that we’re 6 games in, and starting to fall behind the rest of the league. Bloody Hell Tottenham are down where we are in the league and they looked light years ahead of us when we played them. Does anyone think they’ll stay there for the rest of the season. The teams that are expected to be at the wrong end of the table aren’t. They’re not because they’re scoring goals. I don’t think we’ve played well this season, I’m not convinced we’ve played well this year. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think anyone expected us to win on Saturday, and it’s not the fact that we lost that hurts, it’s the fact that we went to defend, we didn’t look like scoring a goal and we completely collapsed when we conceded. How much time do we have before the season is a lost cause, because is we carry on playing like we have been so far I can’t see much hope for us.

I want to enjoy watching my team in the premiership, but I’m not happy watching woeful performances. I don’t know if the coaching’s wrong, whether the management’s wrong, whether the fitness is lacking, whether there’s a gypsy curse on the team, all I know is that if we play like we have been, we’ll struggle to get more than 20 points this season.

I hope I’m wrong, I really do.

UP THE BLADES!!!!!!

 

[rotherhamblade]

first goal killed us after that we just deflated

 

[Keith Curle's tenant]

lol it wasnt that high of a kick really then he must have lifted his foot off floor by 2 inches lol

2 Inches? he would have cleared him with that

 

[TonyAgana]

I think I must have attended a completely different match to most, given that I actually saw us go at Arsenal and create some chances.

We did nothing like just going to defend, we got forward whenever we could and gave it a good go, we even had the ball in the back of the net way before Arsenal.

Unfortunately we tired and went to sleep for the last 20 mins against a team who (without checking) I'd suggest didn't have a player who wasn't at the World Cup.

We did very well until they walked over us in the last 20 mins.

Did you honestly think we wouldn't tire? It's not "unfortunate" that we tired, it's an unavoidable side effect of defending against a team who didn't have a player who wasn't at the world cup!

To make no changes until we were 2-0 down and there's less than 1/4 of an hour left - at which point we go 4-3-3 (another formation that has NEVER worked for us) - is unbelievable.

To include Alan Wright whilst omiting Rob Kozluk is unbelievable.

To drop (I'm presuming he was dropped, apologies if I'm wrong) Chris Morgan is unbelievable.

People are saying "for an hour it worked" - it would've worked if we'd have piled 11 men up on the goal line but it's not football and we're never going to get anything but a very unlikely point.

Fact is, Arsenal's defence have been breached this season and we have the players, fit, who are capable of breaching them. They just didn't get a sniff because of team selection, tactics and formation.

 

[Foxy]

Did you honestly think we wouldn't tire? It's not "unfortunate" that we tired, it's an unavoidable side effect of defending against a team who didn't have a player who wasn't at the world cup!

Of course we would tire, we can't however substitute 11 men. I wasn't saying we were unlucky or unfortunate to tire, it was always going to happen. They have players who cost so much due to their ability to play in such a way that they can be as effective as a few players!

To make no changes until we were 2-0 down and there's less than 1/4 of an hour left - at which point we go 4-3-3 (another formation that has NEVER worked for us) - is unbelievable.

What changes do you suggest we should have made? given that the second goal was scored only 4 minutes after the first one. It was only at 2-0 that we really started to get walked over.

To include Alan Wright whilst omiting Rob Kozluk is unbelievable.

I personally wouldn't have played Alan Wright, despite the fact he's been playing really well in the reserves/pre-season. But many people also wouldn't have played Kozluk. In hindsight maybe it would have been better playing Armstrong left back and someone else in the middle, who knows?

I don't actually think Alan Wright had all that bad of a game, barring a few dodgy passes and the last 20 mins when everyone was the same.

To drop (I'm presuming he was dropped, apologies if I'm wrong) Chris Morgan is unbelievable.

I have no idea why Chris Morgan wasn't in the squad, but I wouldn't suggest he was dropped for the sake of dropping, given that he's still the club captain.

People are saying "for an hour it worked" - it would've worked if we'd have piled 11 men up on the goal line but it's not football and we're never going to get anything but a very unlikely point.

But we put the ball in the net, had a few chances and genuinely got forward in my eyes (even if we didn't have a load of clear cut opportunities).

Fact is, Arsenal's defence have been breached this season and we have the players, fit, who are capable of breaching them. They just didn't get a sniff because of team selection, tactics and formation.

We breached them only to be dissallowed and got in and around the area plenty of times (albeit not creating masses of clear cut chances). Who would you have played and in what formation?

I think during the last 20 minutes we pretty much saw the difference between a world class team against a newly promoted team with 9 injuries. There is a reason their side cost so much and that is their ability to create and take chances, capitalise on tiring/poorer sides and dig in when they need to. It just so happens for all but 80 mins they couldn't do this and neither side was really dominating.

I really cannot see how we went to just defend, i've seen it in the past, but no way did we play for a draw on Saturday. I even half expected it with the lineup, but it wasn't!

Had we not had a goal dissallowed or taken one of our other few chances, it could have been a totally different game.

 

[BV]

I really don't think we attacked well. It was the same story against Reading (i can't believe I'm even comparing a performance against Reading to one against Arsenal) we had the ball, we looked to go forward, we didn't create anything, we didn't attack well. It's simply not good enough in this league. I know we were playing Arsenal, but is a 3-0 loss, good enough???

 

[silverfox]

I really don't think we attacked well. It was the same story against Reading (i can't believe I'm even comparing a performance against Reading to one against Arsenal) we had the ball, we looked to go forward, we didn't create anything, we didn't attack well. It's simply not good enough in this league. I know we were playing Arsenal, but is a 3-0 loss, good enough???

Never good enough.....but understandable if we are being realistic.

 

[BV]

What do you think is realistic against Middlesborough? Their team costs a lot more than ours, they're an established Premiership team, they were in Europe last year. Is losing realistic? I'd say you can justify that losing is realistic, but I don't think it's acceptable.

 

[BV]

By the way, Keenzy, nice to meet you fella, and Dean, not sure if you can remember, but was good to see you again mate.

 

[silverfox]

What do you think is realistic against Middlesborough? Their team costs a lot more than ours, they're an established Premiership team, they were in Europe last year. Is losing realistic? I'd say you can justify that losing is realistic, but I don't think it's acceptable.

Losing against them is a good possiblity based on our results so far I'm afraid. I'm being realistic and I hope for other results.

If it's unacceptable to the people in charge they have an option to change things. I presume that would be the manager.

It is then realistic, I'm afraid, to end up with a Souness, Hoddle or a Megson.

Now that's more worrying than where we are at the moment IMO.

Keep smiling.....what's the alternative!

 

[silverfox]

By the way, Keenzy, nice to meet you fella, and Dean, not sure if you can remember, but was good to see you again mate.

Deans eye's were more wayward than our defending for the 3rd goal.

 

[Foxy]

What do you think is realistic against Middlesborough? Their team costs a lot more than ours, they're an established Premiership team, they were in Europe last year. Is losing realistic? I'd say you can justify that losing is realistic, but I don't think it's acceptable.

It's realistic to expect it to be a tough game, its not acceptable to justify losing every week because the rest of the teams are better and cost more.... But it is sensible in my opinion to expect to find a game away to Arsenal be very difficult.

I wouldn't say over 90 mins they looked 3 goals better than us, they obviously were as they scored them, but I think 3 goals flattered them somewhat as in my opinion we were a lot closer than 3-0 to them.

Unfortunately, we can't expect to beat anyone in this division, it's going to be a long and hard season. We can't use the fact they cost more and are more established as an excuse every week, but its certainly a contributing factor. This doesn't mean its acceptable to lose to them, but it certainly needs taking into perspective.

Had we just been hammered 3-0 by Southend or Plymouth I could understand, but we haven't.

Im certainly not saying its acceptable to lose every week, but the reality is we have no right to win any game, we are at a disadvantage to everyone else (at the moment) in terms of money/players and it's going to be like it all season long!

We currently have the highest number of injuries in the league (at last check), which, for a team of our standing is a major disadvantage. I'm hoping our first win can come before these players are back, as I think our first one will spark more, a greater confidence amongst the players and a bit more patience from the fans.

 

[BV]

Losing against them is a good possiblity based on our results so far I'm afraid. I'm being realistic and I hope for other results.

If it's unacceptable to the people in charge they have an option to change things. I presume that would be the manager.

It is then realistic, I'm afraid, to end up with a Souness, Hoddle or a Megson.

Now that's more worrying than where we are at the moment IMO.

Keep smiling.....what's the alternative!

My point was, it's realistic to get beaten by almost every team in this league. However that's not acceptable.

I'm not saying we should change the manger just yet, but if we continue to fall further behind without putting up much resistance, I think the tide of opinion will change.

Neil has always divided the fans, that’s a sad truth, and toothless performances, and interviews where he says he doesn’t know what he’s doing don’t do him any favours.

You know me mate, I'll always keep smiling

 

[BV]

It's realistic to expect it to be a tough game, its not acceptable to justify losing every week because the rest of the teams are better and cost more.... But it is sensible in my opinion to expect to find a game away to Arsenal be very difficult.

I wouldn't say over 90 mins they looked 3 goals better than us, they obviously were as they scored them, but I think 3 goals flattered them somewhat as in my opinion we were a lot closer than 3-0 to them.

Unfortunately, we can't expect to beat anyone in this division, it's going to be a long and hard season. We can't use the fact they cost more and are more established as an excuse every week, but its certainly a contributing factor. This doesn't mean its acceptable to lose to them, but it certainly needs taking into perspective.

Had we just been hammered 3-0 by Southend or Plymouth I could understand, but we haven't.

Im certainly not saying its acceptable to lose every week, but the reality is we have no right to win any game, we are at a disadvantage to everyone else (at the moment) in terms of money/players and it's going to be like it all season long!

We currently have the highest number of injuries in the league (at last check), which, for a team of our standing is a major disadvantage. I'm hoping our first win can come before these players are back, as I think our first one will spark more, a greater confidence amongst the players and a bit more patience from the fans.

I know what you're saying about losing to Arsenal, and it's what I keep saying, I expected us to lose, I expected Arsenal to be a better team than us, it wasn't the result or the score line that was disappointing, it was the manner of the defeat. We look bereft on any creativity going forward (even when Tonge was in the team) and that's not good enough. Having possession doesn't mean we attacked them. We had lots of possession against Reading, but barely put a dangerous ball in to the box. How many Saves did Hanneman have to make? How many did Lehman have to make?

And yes we have many injuries, but how many of the injured players do you think are missing from the starting line up?

 

[TonyAgana]

Of course we would tire, we can't however substitute 11 men. I wasn't saying we were unlucky or unfortunate to tire, it was always going to happen. They have players who cost so much due to their ability to play in such a way that they can be as effective as a few players!

You said unfortunately we tired. I'm just saying that with the "panicky" style in which we played (not the best name for it but it definitely looked desperate in places) is always going to tire a team out more than spreading out and making the ball do the work. Instead we packed the defence to such an extent that for all three goals, nobody knew who they were marking.

What changes do you suggest we should have made? given that the second goal was scored only 4 minutes after the first one. It was only at 2-0 that we really started to get walked over.

How long did it take after the 2nd goal before we made a change? There was nearly half an hour left. That's a third of the match, but no. Warnock waits for Wenger to make his move first. Although I stated 4-3-3 doesn't suit us, we might have well as given that more of a chance. Even if we'd forced a goal at 85 minutes, at 2-1 anything can happen.

I personally wouldn't have played Alan Wright, despite the fact he's been playing really well in the reserves/pre-season. But many people also wouldn't have played Kozluk. In hindsight maybe it would have been better playing Armstrong left back and someone else in the middle, who knows?

Who knows??? EVERYONE EXCEPT WARNOCK!!! And as for Alan Wright playing well in reserves and pre-season, this was Arsenal's first 11 of international superstars, not some scottish part-timers. Wright did ok man-marking Ljungberg but giving wingers so much space is unforgivable. He did it against Leeds last season and got punished. He did it against Baptiste and got punished. He'll always do it, of that you can be certain.

I don't actually think Alan Wright had all that bad of a game, barring a few dodgy passes and the last 20 mins when everyone was the same.

It wasn't so much his dodgy passes, more his inability to read a player's off the ball positioning. He ends up flat-footed and woefully far from his man.

But we put the ball in the net, had a few chances and genuinely got forward in my eyes (even if we didn't have a load of clear cut opportunities).

I'm going to have to agree with Sharpy on this one, great finish from Leigertwood, and it had Lehmann beaten but the defence had stopped well in advance of him striking it.

We breached them only to be dissallowed and got in and around the area plenty of times (albeit not creating masses of clear cut chances). Who would you have played and in what formation?

You can't genuinely consider the disallowed goal as a breaching, and it's all good and well getting in and around the area but was Lehmann ever in any danger? I really don't think so.

As for my team, I don't like doing this because with hindsight you have a distinct advantage but seeing as though you asked, here goes...

Bennett
Sommeil - Morgan - Davies - Armstrong
Jagielka
Geary - Gillespie - Leigertwood - Quinn
Hulse

Not too Gung-ho, is it? Just relying more on ability and leadership rather than getting numbers behind the ball.

I really cannot see how we went to just defend, i've seen it in the past, but no way did we play for a draw on Saturday. I even half expected it with the lineup, but it wasn't!

Only because of Kazim-Richards' and Hulse's ability did it look like we gave it a bit of a go but all our "chances" seemed incidental to what was otherwise an incredibly defensive display.

 

[silverfox]

My point was, it's realistic to get beaten by almost every team in this league. However that's not acceptable.

I'm not saying we should change the manger just yet, but if we continue to fall further behind without putting up much resistance, I think the tide of opinion will change.

Neil has always divided the fans, that’s a sad truth, and toothless performances, and interviews where he says he doesn’t know what he’s doing don’t do him any favours.

You know me mate, I'll always keep smiling

I think every manager I've ever witnessed at United has divided the fans.

There are always fans calling for the managers head.

I'm not saying he should keep his job throughout the season if we can't win.....sometimes you do need to change things to make a difference.

I think if you ask any fan, the manager never has a job for life it's just when he leaves and how that is different.

 

[Sharpy]

Weve been trying to get rid of wright for 2 years and yet warnock gives him his first league start for ages against ARSENAL!!!!!!

99% of united fans can see we need quinn in that side, not colin.

He is out of his depth at this level and its plain for everybody to see, look at coppel at reading. Attacking free flowing football. Not like colin who bases his team and tactics around the team we are playing.

He will get us relegated this season not the players, if we lose against boro then its bye bye warnock.

The man makes my blood boil. Even his fucking stupid interviews after the game make me want to smack the bloke, he has got us up and now its time for him to leave.

P.S Which clever nobhead who has nothing better to do keeps changing my usertitle?

 

[BV]

I agree with pretty much all of what tony agana says, it's just the team selction I don't. I still can't believe that Armstrong was played central midfield. Where's Monty now? Is he injured?

 

[silverfox]

I agree with pretty much all of what tony agana says, it's just the team selction I don't. I still can't believe that Armstrong was played central midfield. Where's Monty now? Is he injured?

Yep Monty is injured.

 

[Foxy]

You said unfortunately we tired. I'm just saying that with the "panicky" style in which we played (not the best name for it but it definitely looked desperate in places) is always going to tire a team out more than spreading out and making the ball do the work. Instead we packed the defence to such an extent that for all three goals, nobody knew who they were marking.

It was a bad choice of words, I didn't mean I thought we were unfortunate to get tired I'm not disagreeing that we were poor in conceeding the goals, but up until that stage of the game we were playing well.

Who knows??? EVERYONE EXCEPT WARNOCK!!! And as for Alan Wright playing well in reserves and pre-season, this was Arsenal's first 11 of international superstars, not some scottish part-timers. Wright did ok man-marking Ljungberg but giving wingers so much space is unforgivable. He did it against Leeds last season and got punished. He did it against Baptiste and got punished. He'll always do it, of that you can be certain.

And £10million Massimo Maccarone?, Ray Parlour?, Robert Huth? and a team of youngers from one of the more highly rated academies in the country. He can only play against players he's put against. I agree he gives a lot of space and I did find myself continually shouting at him for backing off, but he also made some quality tackles and interceptions and did well for 65 mins or so. Like I said, I wouldn't have picked him, but he wasn't as woeful as is being made out.

I'm going to have to agree with Sharpy on this one, great finish from Leigertwood, and it had Lehmann beaten but the defence had stopped well in advance of him striking it.

They were pretty static, but I wouldn't suggest (from memory) they'd stopped well in advance, I seem to remember him being closed down as he hit the ball and Lehmann definately busted a gut to try and stop it. I've not had the benefit of seeing a replay yet given that i've been in london all weekend

You can't genuinely consider the disallowed goal as a breaching, and it's all good and well getting in and around the area but was Lehmann ever in any danger? I really don't think so.

You can however consider it as a genuine attempt at goal and there's no doubt it did beat the defence/keeper, whether or not this was only due to them expecting/having got a free kick who knows. How did we get the chance? from a corner. How did we get the corner? from an attack. Not bad considering we supposedly went with no intentions of attacking.

As for my team, I don't like doing this because with hindsight you have a distinct advantage but seeing as though you asked, here goes...

Bennett
Sommeil - Morgan - Davies - Armstrong
Jagielka
Geary - Gillespie - Leigertwood - Quinn
Hulse

Not too Gung-ho, is it? Just relying more on ability and leadership rather than getting numbers behind the ball.

Thats precisely why I asked you, it's very easy with the benefit of hindsight and without knowing the ins and outs of fitness etc. I think whilst that team would have a good go, that we'd have ended up being under more pressure and potentially made less chances.

The defence looks sound enough, but i'd worry about the midfield. Quinny is all or nothing (you already comment on my annoyance at his regular refusal to track back, which he happened to do fairly well the last time I saw him play before the weekend). Gillespie, whilst having been employed at the back for his country, has never been 100% convincing in winning the ball/tracking players in my opinion and is a bit slower. He is also probably the best crosser of the ball in the entire squad and so I feel he'd be wasted in the centre. Geary, who would have put in 110% can get forward well, but is primarily a defender/wing back. Leigertwood i'd go with. Hulse goes without saying as he's been quality.

The side is one i'd like to see (given our injuries etc) but I don't think it'd have given us anything radically different going forward.

Only because of Kazim-Richards' and Hulse's ability did it look like we gave it a bit of a go but all our "chances" seemed incidental to what was otherwise an incredibly defensive display.

How can our players ability trick us into seeing it as "giving it a bit of a go" ? They either did or didn't unless they are illusionists surely? I totally agree we didn't create too many clear cut chances, but this was more due to Arsenals world class defence and our own mistakes rather than not wanting/trying to attack them.

Is Arsene Wenger (a man who doesn't usually give out all that much praise) totally wrong in saying he thought we defended well but were dangerous too?

I do think we'll see a totally different team and formation for Middlesborough and will be concerned if we don't create more chances.

 

[BV]

I think what TA's alluding to is that the strikers did ok, but without any support we were only flattering to decive. Or at least that's the way it seemed.

 

[silverfox]

I think what TA's alluding to is that the strikers did ok, but without any support we were only flattering to decive. Or at least that's the way it seemed.

I'd agree with that to a certain extent.......we need strong runners from midfield in games like Saturdays......someone who will go beyond the strikers when they get the ball.

Only one who I've seen who will do that effectively is Nicky Law.

 

[BV]

I'd agree with that to a certain extent.......we need strong runners from midfield in games like Saturdays......someone who will go beyond the strikers when they get the ball.

Only one who I've seen who will do that effectively is Nicky Law.

I'd say we need that in every game. Not just games like Saturdays.

 

[Foxy]

99% of united fans can see we need quinn in that side, not colin.

I'm in the 1% as I would've only started him based on injuries. I'd have played something like:

Gillespie Quinn <> Leigertwood Kazim-Richards

He is out of his depth at this level and its plain for everybody to see, look at coppel at reading. Attacking free flowing football. Not like colin who bases his team and tactics around the team we are playing.

"Attacking free flowing football" =

2 shots on target
2 shots off target
2 corners

"defensive, out of depth" =

4 shots on target
1 shot off target
2 corners

He will get us relegated this season not the players, if we lose against boro then its bye bye warnock.

Theres me thinking the players had a bearing on the match and actually had to play well in order for us to do well

P.S Which clever nobhead who has nothing better to do keeps changing my usertitle?

Anyone with enough points to purchase a title change in the store

 

[TonyAgana]

I'm in the 1% as I would've only started him based on injuries. I'd have played something like:

Gillespie Quinn <> Leigertwood Kazim-Richards



"Attacking free flowing football" =

2 shots on target
2 shots off target
2 corners

"defensive, out of depth" =

4 shots on target
1 shot off target
2 corners




Theres me thinking the players had a bearing on the match and actually had to play well in order for us to do well



Anyone with enough points to purchase a title change in the store

At least one of the 4 shots on target were AFTER the substitutions - at which point the only gripe from me was that the changes weren't made sooner.

Also, a 45 yard shot that a keeper bends down to pick up is classed as a shot on target so our 4 shots on target compared to Reading's 2 isn't necessarily a clear cut comparison of goal-scoring opportunities. Better to look at posession in the final 1/3, of which I'm pretty damned sure we didn't have much.

And yes, the players do have a bearing but I don't think that was quite what Sharpy meant.