Gone Elsewhere Antonee Robinson

[OrderOfStGeorge]

I get what you're saying but it's not exactly peanuts, is it?

50k isn't peanuts I am referring to our current wage structure, how can we expect to attract better quality of players paying 20-30k in the premier league?.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Totally agree that we shouldn't be paying this lad that sort of money, for the number of reasons already discussed. However, something is going to have to give.

I think everyone agrees we need more quality if we are to progress, certainly in some areas. If the targets we identify are indeed in the bracket of 'better than we have' then they will almost certainly be desirable to other clubs. Any agent doing their job properly will tout them around for the best deal, which in most cases will be from a financial point of view. I think the idea that footballers with no pre affinity to us would pick us over X if X is paying double is naive.

All this being the case, where does that leave us if we don't start competing on wages? In a struggle trying to sign those better players I reckon. Obviously needs to be for the right players, not a reserve left back.

50k isn't peanuts I am referring to our current wage structure, how can we expect to attract better quality of players paying 20-30k in the premier league?.

Explain how we signed Berge, one of the best known and certainly sought after young midfielders in Europe?

 

[blackydog]

50k isn't peanuts I am referring to our current wage structure, how can we expect to attract better quality of players paying 20-30k in the premier league?.

I understood you correctly. I'm saying 20k / week is not peanuts. 50k a week in this case would be madness.

 

[robbiez666]

50k isn't peanuts I am referring to our current wage structure, how can we expect to attract better quality of players paying 20-30k in the premier league?.

Wilder has said that they're looking to increase the wages but it will be a gradual process of raising each year we're in the top flight.

If we suddenly gave everyone another £40-50k then we'd have little or no transfer funds. You'd also have to renegotiate each contract, which brings it's own issues, and get them agree to a relegation wage decrease. If we went down with everyone on huge wages who is buying our players? Probably, no one.

Also the case that if you give Robinson wage parity with a first teamer, that first teamer is likely not to be happy about it and be knocking on Wilder's door.

 

[LondonBlade89]

I am absolutely delighted our club isn’t being run by some members of this forum. We’d be in administration within a few years. But don’t worry lads it’d be alright cos we’d have Antonee Robinson.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Well if Chris Wilder is ambitious as he says he is then he has a few decisions to make because the premier league is a whole different ball game to the championship and if we want to keep building and progressing then there has to be a change somewhere.

Because we are not going to attract better quality paying peanuts in wages.

We’ll increase it in a way that’s considered prudent by the manager and the board based on our flexibility at the time. A strategy that is working perfectly fine.

 

[itsinyerblood]

It was, so if the heart issue is now rectified, or been found to be inconsequential, surely Milan would be back in at those prices? They have a DOF that knows a little bit about left sided defenders.

Like your good self I have a 'thing' for a quality defender - and the Italians have produced some of the finest defenders the world has seen - so your question remains unanswered SEB. As you suggest, if they've made an offer but felt they had to withdraw, surely they'd wish to know about any changes in the player's circumstance?

Got to admit, the player looks a real asset but the reality of playing at this level will reveal just how good he is. For what it's worth, as much as I'd love to see him sign to us I wouldn't support a 'break the bank' approach. Perhaps if he were a known quantity it might be a different question, but as things stand if the combination of agent and player is determined to chase the money it's best to leave them to it.

 

[Nah den]

I agree with you, but do you not think that’s what Wilder is doing?

Given the 'constraints' of our wage structure I'm not sure he is or can unless the whole structure is reassessed, particularly if new signings suddenly become the highest earners, as would likely be the case due to the points I made previously.

Maybe it's a case of a slow transition, which would be the prudent thing to do, but then we're going to have to accept that it's extremely difficult to get that better quality of player over the line. Our management team has worked wonders thus far with less expensive 'fashionable' players, we'd have to hope that would continue. Relying on our defence to repeat last season whilst being equally frugal in front of goal is a big ask though.

 

[TONY_TONY_AGANA]

It's a tricky one as Robinson isn't a necessity right now, but Enda isn't getting any younger so we do need to think more long term. If we were approaching our 3rd year in the Prem, then this sort of signing would probably make sense but right now we have to prioritise the goalkeeper and attacking midfield positions.

He's not even forced to get into the Fulham team as they have Joe Bryan, a very good left back and at 26 is coming into his prime. So if they want to pay 50k a week for a bench warmer then so be it.

 

[Nah den]

Explain how we signed Berge, one of the best known and certainly sought after young midfielders in Europe?

I can't with any certainty, there will have been a myriad of things at play, as with most signings. Maybe it was a timing thing, we stole a march. Maybe he wasn't as well fancied as reported, or any number of other factors. What is for sure is if another club really wanted him they could have offered him more money. Maybe (and I think this is a possibility with him) he's a rare breed footballer who actually did look at the bigger picture and what was right for his career longer term. Dunno, but likely the exception and therefore not particularly relevant to the main points being discussed.

 

[robbiez666]

It's a tricky one as Robinson isn't a necessity right now, but Enda isn't getting any younger so we do need to think more long term. If we were approaching our 3rd year in the Prem, then this sort of signing would probably make sense but right now we have to prioritise the goalkeeper and attacking midfield positions.

He's not even forced to get into the Fulham team as they have Joe Bryan, a very good left back and at 26 is coming into his prime. So if they want to pay 50k a week for a bench warmer then so be it.

I'd prefer Bryan tbh

 

[BLADES1988]

Kean Bryan?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I can't with any certainty, there will have been a myriad of things at play, as with most signings. Maybe it was a timing thing, we stole a march. Maybe he wasn't as well fancied as reported, or any number of other factors. What is for sure is if another club really wanted him they could have offered him more money. Maybe (and I think this is a possibility with him) he's a rare breed footballer who actually did look at the bigger picture and what was right for his career longer term. Dunno, but likely the exception and therefore not particularly relevant to the main points being discussed.

Why isn’t a fact relevant?
What you claim to be an exception proves that it can be done and has been done.
Maybe we don’t want to be signing the regular, average normal type of player. We need to be scouting deeper than that and that’s what gives us that extra which is what makes our club so unique at the moment?
I’d rather keep what we currently have because I’ve been following us long enough to know how special it is, and it’s not worth losing that for any signing because as long as we have it we’ll continue to consistently punch above our collective weight.

 

[Bladesman]

Kean Bryan?

Good god no!

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

It's a tricky one as Robinson isn't a necessity right now, but Enda isn't getting any younger so we do need to think more long term. If we were approaching our 3rd year in the Prem, then this sort of signing would probably make sense but right now we have to prioritise the goalkeeper and attacking midfield positions.

He's not even forced to get into the Fulham team as they have Joe Bryan, a very good left back and at 26 is coming into his prime. So if they want to pay 50k a week for a bench warmer then so be it.

Thought you was referring to Robinson then was gonna say he is only 23.

I understood you correctly. I'm saying 20k / week is not peanuts. 50k a week in this case would be madness.

20k is peanuts in the premier league most Championship players are on that these days.

 

[Nah den]

Why isn’t a fact relevant?
What you claim to be an exception proves that it can be done and has been done.
Maybe we don’t want to be signing the regular, average normal type of player. We need to be scouting deeper than that and that’s what gives us that extra which is what makes our club so unique at the moment?
I’d rather keep what we currently have because I’ve been following us long enough to know how special it is, and it’s not worth losing that for any signing because as long as we have it we’ll continue to consistently punch above our collective weight.

Not relevant to the point that unless we start to complete on wages we'll lose out to other clubs going for our targets.

But yes it is a fact, and my assertion is that he's an exception. My view is we need more than 1 Sander Berge per season to continue to improve year on year.

If it was a case of just 'scouting deeper' and bringing in quality unknowns I'd agree with you, but a) there are very few unknown players of the quality we require, and b) if they have an agent and we say we'll give you X, they are likely to tout their client elsewhere for X+.

 

[Addison]

Don't understand the angst.

Average championship player's agent manages to get one right at last after fucking up one players career and leaving the other in limbo. SUFC walked away a week ago when agent got player to put out a come and get me message on twitter.

Agent sheds loads in with player, they have arranged to meet on Saturday afternoons on the banks of the Thames to spend their new found wonga. Meanwhile Joe Bryan at Fulham asks for a wage increase to £100k a week as he's twice the player Robinson is.

SUFC now known to be offering John Lundstram to Fulham for £30 million. Agent says he can get him £60k a week. Fulham think this is a bargain as they normally pay out £100k a week to potential first team starters. Blades refuse to accept Michael Jackson statue in part exchange.

 

[Bladesman]

Don't understand the angst.

Average championship player's agent manages to get one right at last after fucking up one players career and leaving the other in limbo. SUFC walked away a week ago when agent got player to put out a come and get me message on twitter.

Agent sheds loads in with player, they have arranged to meet on Saturday afternoons on the banks of the Thames to spend their new found wonga. Meanwhile Joe Bryan at Fulham asks for a wage increase to £100k a week as he's twice the player Robinson is.

SUFC now known to be offering John Lundstram to Fulham for £30 million. Agent says he can get him £60k a week. Fulham think this is a bargain as they normally pay out £100k a week to potential first team starters. Blades refuse to accept Michael Jackson statue in part exchange.

Fulham fans refuse to accept the Michael Jackson statue as well.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Not relevant to the point that unless we start to complete on wages we'll lose out to other clubs going for our targets.

But yes it is a fact, and my assertion is that he's an exception. My view is we need more than 1 Sander Berge per season to continue to improve year on year.

If it was a case of just 'scouting deeper' and bringing in quality unknowns I'd agree with you, but a) there are very few unknown players of the quality we require, and b) if they have an agent and we say we'll give you X, they are likely to tout their client elsewhere for X+.

I’d agree. One Sander type signing a year sounds about right, unless a unique opportunity arises.
We pride ourselves in scouting the right type, the right type see the whole picture for their development and there are lots of players who will see that. We absolutely will miss out on some, but unlike many on these types of threads I see that as a bullet dodged rather than an opportunity missed.
There’s more good players than Premier League clubs and the more our ethic and team spirit grows the more appealing it will be to the right ones.
We done all right with this philosophy we shouldn’t lose faith with it just because we want to get ahead of ourselves and turn into every other recently promoted club.

 

[blackydog]

Thought you was referring to Robinson then was gonna say he is only 23.


20k is peanuts in the premier league most Championship players are on that these days.

It may be less than the average PL player gets paid but it is far from peanuts. Trouble is many clubs are prepared to play inflated wages for average players. Do we want to go down that road with it's associated pitfalls? I suggest not.
Give him £20k / week and another £1M for a top 6 finish. £500k for top 10

 

[Nah den]

I’d agree. One Sander type signing a year sounds about right, unless a unique opportunity arises.
We pride ourselves in scouting the right type, the right type see the whole picture for their development and there are lots of players who will see that. We absolutely will miss out on some, but unlike many on these types of threads I see that as a bullet dodged rather than an opportunity missed.
There’s more good players than Premier League clubs and the more our ethic and team spirit grows the more appealing it will be to the right ones.
We done all right with this philosophy we shouldn’t lose faith with it just because we want to get ahead of ourselves and turn into every other recently promoted club.

Fair enough, and in an ideal world I'd be all for every signing/target wanting to come to us for reasons other than money.

Consider this though, if Wilder didn't think we needed the players we are in for and lose out on, why would we be in for them in the first place? Why would we bother? And therefore, in losing out to bigger payers, it's to our detriment.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Fair enough, and in an ideal world I'd be all for every signing/target wanting to come to us for reasons other than money.

Consider this though, if Wilder didn't think we needed the players we are in for and lose out on, why would we be in for them in the first place? Why would we bother? And therefore, in losing out to bigger payers, it's to our detriment.

It’s a final right of passage. He’s can’t actually talk to them properly until a deal is agreed so then he can gauge if we’re going to progress and what we value them at. If this lad thinks he’s worth 50k then good luck to him but it won’t be playing for us.

 

[robbiez666]

It’s a final right of passage. He’s can’t actually talk to them properly until a deal is agreed so then he can gauge if we’re going to progress and what we value them at. If this lad thinks he’s worth 50k then good luck to him but it won’t be playing for us.

The one big plus about this deal is that we don't need it. We have a number 1 LWB and adequate cover in Osbourn. If we walk away, we walk away. RWB is more pressing.

 

[Nah den]

It’s a final right of passage. He’s can’t actually talk to them properly until a deal is agreed so then he can gauge if we’re going to progress and what we value them at. If this lad thinks he’s worth 50k then good luck to him but it won’t be playing for us.

Amounts to the same thing doesn't it? We bid for a player we want. Bid accepted. We discuss personal terms and player can get more elsewhere, we miss out on a player we thought would improve us.

On Robinson specifically, he is worth 50k a week to himself and his family because that's what Fulham are prepared to pay him (as you say, good luck to him). But no, he's not worth that to us. In part because it's not a priority area I don't think, given Osborn can cover that position.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

One overlooked plan we have.

Bid on players we don’t want. Push up the other bidding club’s financial commitments (and reduce remaining budget) and weaken their ability to then outbid us on our real targets later.

Tactical outmanoeuvring our rivals. We know how to play this game

 

[JPBrods]

The Star (sourced from the Mail) reporting that Fulham have offered him £45,000 a week.

 

[Guesty]

View attachment 88122

£2million for a player who’s going to provide very good competition to Enda. Enda has been one of my favourites from the time he started but he hasn’t had anyone pushing him.

Now he will have real competition and we have the option to go more attacking from the wings if we do choose. Excellent but of business

Class from Wilder, £2m an absolute bargain!

Absolute bargain and a complete no brained, well done Wilder and co for getting him.

We've gazumped a couple of teams to this signature, a rare occurrence for us over the years. The tides are certainly turning. The CWAK effect.

This is amazing! 23 years old, lots of potential and already had a very decent season in the Championship. 2 million is absolute peanuts. Low risk high reward. Love it!

There's a quote from the great Harvey Keitel as Winston Wolfe that I think applies here. It's "Let's not start sucking each others' dicks quite yet".

Once bitten, twice shy and all that but it amazes me that after all that's happened in the last week or so, on other threads usually sensible posters are talking about Ramsdale like we've already paid out and it's a done deal.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Fair enough, and in an ideal world I'd be all for every signing/target wanting to come to us for reasons other than money.

Consider this though, if Wilder didn't think we needed the players we are in for and lose out on, why would we be in for them in the first place? Why would we bother? And therefore, in losing out to bigger payers, it's to our detriment.

Swings and roundabouts I'm afraid. Simply put, wages are a huge part of why most players will choose a club, especially if they have a family to provide for.

Yes it would be comforting if we were able to sign our first priorities, but Wilder probably has a list of between 3-4 players per position to choose from, so if one goes in one direction he'll look elsewhere. I think the same applies to most other clubs, and that includes clubs who pay substantially larger wages than we're currently able to. No doubt, if we remain in this division the club will revise it's wage's budget, but until that happens we'll work within the confines of whatever Wilder knows he can afford.

I recall the days when spending half a million on a player was regarded as something of an ambitious move on this club's behalf, so moving on, we've begun to spend a million here, three or four million there, we're beginning to see that the club is adjusting it's financial parameters and no doubt this will continue. I'm open to being corrected, but it's a long time since we were in such a decent position. I know that many who post on here want jam today, but I doubt that those same posters would want this club to select ambition now at the cost of future despair. I know we'll have to make an apparent ambitious push every so often, but it will be considered and acted upon. Unlike the 'financial wizards' over at S6 we'll cut our cloth accordingly. No silly wages offered, unlike the so-called kingpins of finance at Sheffield's Championship club, but we will adapt and increase wages paid once we're in a realistic position to do so.

Considering where we were four seasons ago, how can anyone realistically expect this club to suddenly adopt a financial free for all? We're doing ok, and at times we're doing even better than that, so watch this space, see who Wilder wheels and deals with over the next two to three seasons, and then compare where we were to where we'll be. My sense is that our manager is so hands on that we'll be on top of all the issues that affect our present and future.....best thing that has happened to this club was the signing of Wilder (and Knill). Think yourselves lucky we have Chris as our manager.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

You think we should make an unproven player who would likely be back up our highest earner by almost double?

I dont think that, but if we were serious about signing him instead of trying to get a bargain then i dont think paying 30/40 k for a premier league player is unreasonable


If we signed him for 5/6 million then many would still see that as a bargain. Paying him an extra 10/20k a week signing for £2million would work out at around the same value overall.

I suspect fulham are only offering him 40/50 is because they know there getting a bargain with the transfer fee paying him an extra 20k a week would still work out cheaoper than what he would have cost in january

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Yes, Fulham are the trend we should all follow.

Theres a direct correlation between money spent and success