A defence of the players

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Headshrinker said:
So last season barely anyone could figure out the way Wilder set up and now suddenly everyone could?

I don't buy it. It is mostly down to injuries, lack of atmosphere at matches and morale.
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A mixture of both.
Then our best two players are out (JOC and Deano), the new signings are not we needed - or not very good, many of the squad are burned out from running their bollocks off last year and/or sick of Wilder publicly calling them useless. Throw in that the system is there for all the opposition to see and examine at leisure, and that our forwards were never exactly free scoring on a good day, add a manager who is out of his depth but unable to admit it, and here we are.
 

Can't agree. In a nutshell the primary reason for our demise is the lack of squad depth resulting in an inability to play our system before a ball was kicked. There has been no tangible tactical shift in our opponents setup to counter our system that we haven't seen regular over the last several years.We simply haven't played it! A major contributing factor has been the way we've built our squad over the last 4-5 years which makes it extremely difficult to change system and become a more pragmatic, battling team.
The blame seems to have been completely put at Wilder's door for "Prem transfers" rather than a holistic overview of the last 5 years being taken into account. For example, we spent the bulk of our money this season on a permanent goalkeeper and right wing back cover; players we've needed for several seasons - before we played in the Prem actually.The players we sign also fit the club policy of young and inexperienced with potential resale value. When the shit hits the fan this really shows.We also could have been coming into the league with Ramsdale, DCL and Brooks; instead we are patching together a side primarily due to lack of investment pre premier League, and key player sales pre premier League.
Another woefully neglected factor is fitness. We've gone from the fittest team in the league (possibly the country) to one which looks less fit and energised than our counterparts. We've never looked right since lockdown began.The crowd is often cited, but we are picking up injuries so I see it more of a fitness issue. Berge, JOC, Egan, Fleck, Stevens, Baldock, Mcburnie, Burke, Bogle, Sharp, Mcgoldrick etc etc have all picked up injuries. In typical United fashion the most important players have picked up the most severe injuries....
Mousset probably deserves his own chapter. He was electric until Christmas time last year and a major contributory factor to our survival. He hasn't turned up this season. His understudy is a young, green kid with potential. We desperately needed one of the two to be a major contributory factor to our survival.
 
Rodley said:
Fully agree. Wilder’s tactical stubbornness and team selections have played their parts. This system hasn’t worked for over a year as teams just shut us down. Must be horrendous playing in a style everyone knows has stopped working and you lose every week. Anyone’s head would drop doing that for a year in any career.
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We could all see the signs of a system starting to fail the back end of last season. Yes we had a handful of impressive wins, but the rest of the games were really poor.
Trying to do exactly the same thing this season, was a little bit naive in my view. Sadly that awful phrase all the pundits and opposition fans loved to use, rang out so true...We were found out.
Once teams figured out how to penetrate our previously impenetrable system, we simply didn’t know what to do. Our desperate attempts to plug the gaps at the back, took focus off all the other aspects of our game.
 
CarlMcBlade said:
We could all see the signs of a system starting to fail the back end of last season. Yes we had a handful of impressive wins, but the rest of the games were really poor.
Trying to do exactly the same thing this season, was a little bit naive in my view. Sadly that awful phrase all the pundits and opposition fans loved to use, rang out so true...We were found out.
Once teams figured out how to penetrate our previously impenetrable system, we simply didn’t know what to do. Our desperate attempts to plug the gaps at the back, took focus off all the other aspects of our game.
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It was getting stale even before lockdown. We’d had a good few games where we’d been pretty crap but sneaked a draw or single goal win. All the other ‘fine margins’ wins we’d had were - contrary to what the ‘experts’ have said this year - mostly deserved and in many cases pretty comfortable. Those games in Feb/March 2020 were not.

So basically the signs were there and the coaching staff had months of lockdown to work on ideas, keep the players informed/fit, and then hit the ground running when training started. But presumably didn’t. Or at least didn’t do it very well.
 
I'm at a loss to understand how we have players who were topping statistical charts last season for effort, ground covered, attacking intent etc. that can no longer play football at this level. Enda Stevens is the biggest mystery to me, he was out of this world for 3/4's of last season and now looks unable to perform even the simplest of footballing tasks.

Norwood has gone from legend status to being so far out of his depth it's unreal. Lundstram just doesn't try. Fleck is back to his league 1 fitness levels and is playing like a league 1 player. Mousset, head's gone. McBurnie didn't do incredibly well last season but he's been very poor in a very poor team this season.

As many have said it's a combination of factors, but there's no real excuse for the ineptitude on shown by 7/8 of our team this season in my opinion.
 
Deadbat said:
Perfectly sums it up.

I think way too much is made of the system and formation. Of course we should have changed it when it was not working. It should have been changed and some players may have done a bit better. Some also may not (Egan/Ampadu/Bash in a 2 for instance and some wing backs who would be even more exposed as full backs...Fleck and Norwood as a 2 would have not changed thing either for me). Still we ought to have made adjustments but....

...regardless of that the players almost to a man have been 2nd best to opponents in tackling, running, pressing, passing, shooting, dribbles. Everything. Every week.

These same players may have reached a peak last year but to go from that to this is more than just tactics or not following a managers instructions. The basics have not been there since day one. I still maintain too that the effort has not really been anywhere near what it should be (outside of Man Utd and Villa). The side have shown no fight, togetherness or as Wilder would say won their 'races, headers and tackles.'

Then on the ball if the players could control it, make passes, take responsibility and try and go forward and not be scared to get on the ball we may have got up the field amd not been under so much pressure. They have shown no bravery on or off the ball All the things they did last year.

The players for me have to take huge responsibility. Regardless of tactics every single player has regressed (maybe not McGoldrick) and have dropped off their levels not a bit but as you say fell completely off a cliff.

Many have a defining summer/start to next season in mentality/physical condition and performances. Some will rightly go before but a fair fews Blades careers will be over if they do not show a lot more than they have for a good 10 months in most cases.
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Our style, the players' roles, the passing and movement patterns, the way we do things offensively and defensively is so connected to the formation that it is hard to see us trying a different approach without changing the formation as well.

Again, this wasn't about feeling sorry for the players, or taking blame off them. When you mention players regressing, there's no disagreement. Most have looked poor, although I doubt lack of effort is the real problem.

For various reasons the rot had set in, to such an extent that this set of players were unable to carry out our style and tactics effectively. Our strength was all about the team working offensively and defensively as a unit. When that unit stopped working, our players are not the kind who will still do brilliant things individually, so we've pretty much stopped scoring, and we are struggling defensively.

You could still see it vs Arsenal, the way we try to get our old moves going. Slowly overloading on one side, having a number of passes before we manage to get one of them in some space, only to discover there's nobody in the box, so we go backwards.

When David Weir did those painful post match interviews a few years ago he mumbled stuff like "we just have to keep going and work on what we believe in." The problems weren't addressed. When Nigel Clough arrived he made changes and focused on "knocking that losing habit out of them", shoring up things defensively and making us harder to beat. That had an effect. When we kept losing in Wilder's first few games, he tried something completely different, and it helped us turning things around. For most of Wilder's spell he was very good at identifying problems and addressing them.

I wonder if Heckingbottom is under instructions to not change too much. Has the board told him "We understand you may want to, but we have a new guy coming in, who also favours the current formation, so we don't see is as beneficial to start changing things too much"? He changed formation at half time vs Arsenal, which Wilder also did, but we're always losing when this happens, so it's more of a go-to, emergency plan, than something fresh and new. I noted that Heckington is "still talking to Wilder".

If Blessin comes in he may possibly continue with 3-5-2, but I expect big changes when it comes to our playing style, based on what he's said in interviews.
 
I will never understand this idea that the players cannot adapt to a change of formation.

Anyone who was at Howard Kendall's first match, away at Ipswich, will have been amazed by the difference in the style the team played compared to Bassett's last game. That had been a week before, with the same players.

I am confident that if our players were given another formation to go at, they would at least give it a go. We switch to 4-4-2 when we are losing often enough. And it isn't as if any of these players have played this formation their entire careers.

At this point it should be tried. And even if the new manager comes in and wants to go back to 3-5-2, so what?
 
I get the feeling the problem is the team is no longer a team,
Yes we have tried to bring in more skilful players from outside, but all this seems to have done is bring in more disharmony.
The manager, the players and the fans were all UNITED at the start of our journey, but each expensive over paid addition seems to have made that bond weaker as we lost individuals one by one who had help make the dressing room united,
The final straw IMO came when they lost the fans......
 
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
 
ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
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And no, before you ask, I am still NOT Chris Wilder... :p :p:cool:
 
ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster..
Click to expand...

ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
Click to expand...
100%
 
ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
Click to expand...
That’s a really good post. It‘s human nature to some extent, but I’m ashamed at how often I lapse into thinking that they’ve no right to be unhappy or anxious or sad because they get paid so much. “I’d have liked 50 grand a week and a Lamborghini when I was 25“ I jealously think to myself, ”the least they can do is put a bit of bloody effort in for 90 minutes once a week”.

But Chris the Blade is right - they’re young blokes, often away from home & family, not always the most ’book smart‘ so unlikely to have been using lockdown to read Proust or learn Mandarin, and unlike the rest of us, they can’t really just veg on the sofa eating takeaway and drinking cans. It’s tougher than we care to think, regardless of their bank balances, and they must know, in their heart of hearts, that they’re going to get beat every week. Imagine that? Having to turn up to work every day knowing that you used to be good at your job, but it’s all gone to shit and a growing number of your colleagues and customers are fed up with you. Can’t be easy.
 
ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
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These things may well be true. The problem is that they apply to just about every other player at every other club in the division to a greater or lesser extent.
 

Revolution said:
I will never understand this idea that the players cannot adapt to a change of formation.

Anyone who was at Howard Kendall's first match, away at Ipswich, will have been amazed by the difference in the style the team played compared to Bassett's last game. That had been a week before, with the same players.

I am confident that if our players were given another formation to go at, they would at least give it a go. We switch to 4-4-2 when we are losing often enough. And it isn't as if any of these players have played this formation their entire careers.

At this point it should be tried. And even if the new manager comes in and wants to go back to 3-5-2, so what?
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Yep it is laughable when some say the players can't play other formations, they are professional footballers many of them who have been around and coming to the back end of their careers is some cases.
 
ChrisBlade said:
This is a far more interesting thread than many others where players are simply slagged off, then defended by others out of loyalty.

So I would like to add another, more psychological aspect that I have wondered about several times this season. The almost perpetual lock-down, the COVID protocols, the absence of crowds and, by extension, player interaction also are very likely to have an effect on team spirit and divisions in the squad. And part of our mojo for four years was an almost "Celtic in the sixties"-like romantic bond between players and fans with regular stories of sightings in pubs and clubs during the high times...

I would not be surprised if this hindered the integration of new, younger players when we started falling apart. Surely, people like Basham, Sharp or Egan would have been quite big on reminding new arrivals about the special atmosphere at the club and how this club comes with heightened expectations and pride in the shirt rewarded by special admiration for what can - objectively speaking - often be average players.

That is all well when things go well, but possibly sounds fairly hollow after a fourth or fifth low-key defeat in times where you can't even go out or never experience these "special fans" or occasions of bonding out and about on the town. So the past success quickly sounds like parents always reiterating a tired mantra of "in the old days kids used to be so much better" to new arrivals who never tasted victory for United yet. Brewster, Bogle, Lowe and a few others may well be on to old team-mates of theirs in different places via phones, text or social media after a match long before they ever get to really bond with the likes of Norwood, O'Connell or Enda...

Lundstram drives in from Liverpool and genuinely experiences the season in a "bubble" of his own that shields him from some of the shit the little walk from Bramall Lane to his car would set right in any normal season.

In that sense, I wonder whether some of the new signings have even emotionally arrived or bought into "us" yet. Equally, some of the existing players may hanker after old glories without the realization that the very same fans that used to adore them would now aggressively be asking for more effort, grazed knees and fight - rather than this rather sorry almost entirely non-physical surrender we have seen against a number of perennially soft pansies like Arsenal.

Then there is the referees who without fans are able to implement ninety minutes of whistle-happy, one-sided free-kick after free-kick shit shows that favour players who scream and drop at will, usually a second before contact is made or they would lose a duel. Again, our crowd serves as a powerful corrective in keeping these bent bastards at least semi-honest because they realize early on that their interpretation of the rules won't ever go unchallenged for ninety minutes by local expectations of how much physical contact is allowed. And - like Lunny - they, too, have a car to get to afterwards in the car park without being eaten alive.

Then there is the effect of lock-down on families and single men that surely also affect professional footballers. Viewed simply from a fifty feet bird's perspective, all of Norwood, Fleck and Enda have become visually far more scruffy this year. They do not look like they have taken good care of themselves at all times, but rather like many of us look in home office. Bad shaves, bad haircuts and a general late-night look of having slept in hedges rather than tucked in bed nice and early.

Enda, in particular, has spoken before of dead ends in his career where he'd lost his way and struggled with demons that affected his football. Him and Wilder - and to some extent Norwood, as well - have had an anguished, haunted, unhappy demeanour for several months now. Could have fallen back into a black cloud with this watered version of football not offering much of an escapist happy pocket...

So in summary, there are many soul-defining things that could have gone wrong that go well beyond the simple "legs have gone" or "fallen off a cliff" tropes we happily bandy about when trying to grasp this year's disaster...
Click to expand...
Good post and I agree there were so many things that have been out of the ordinary, that seem to have disadvantaged us. I’d also add that the lack of atmosphere and the training game feel to it has benefitted clubs with technical players. I’m not sure some of them would look quite as good playing in front of big crowds, there’s always been players who are shit hot in training but play more within themselves in front of crowds. There’s been no pressure on them at all when playing at the Lane, a place that can be very intimidating.

All this stuff has combined to create a perfect storm.
 
AWetFlannel said:
You can't know but you can make educated guesses.

We had games to lose, that we did anyway doesn't mean that it was assured.

When we tailed off at the end of our first Championship season you could've made the same argument. Our form had dropped off, injuries meant we couldn't play the system effectively so what do we have to lose? Thank fuck we didn't change it then.

There was a chance that things would turn around for Wilder and his system. It worked before. Injuries made repeating that harder, but using the same 2nd and 3rd choice players in a new system was hardly guaranteed to be more successful.
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How are you comparing that season with this one??? Were we top of the PL table half way through this season? We didn't change it cos there was plenty of evidence to suggest the system and players could be trusted.

This season turned into a dead rubber very, very quickly. Nothing was working. Blooding some youngsters couldn't have made the situation any worse, but there was every chance it might have brought some level of improvement. Heck even throwing Bryan back in (which nobody saw coming) brought some dividends (albeit for only a couple of his games). I don't see how giving Zak Brunt a run of games over an apathetic and lazy Lord Lundstram would have harmed us any more than what ultimately came to pass.
 
I am not a fan of formation changes as a go-to solution but we need to separate short-term and longterm solutions. Longterm with relegation it will be about personnel. However, right now (as Bergen noted) our midfield is not functioning - no protection for our defence and no drive for our offence. In the second half vs Arsenal we briefly picked things up by putting Osborn in the Duffy role - adding another body to the midfield. I do not see the back-four as a solution, just the consequence of adding in the Duffy role behind a front two while still keeping the other three in midfield. The formation that results is not the solution in and of itself, it is just what emerges when you address (what I see) as the major weakness right now.
 
guancheblade said:
How are you comparing that season with this one??? Were we top of the PL table half way through this season? We didn't change it cos there was plenty of evidence to suggest the system and players could be trusted.

This season turned into a dead rubber very, very quickly. Nothing was working. Blooding some youngsters couldn't have made the situation any worse, but there was every chance it might have brought some level of improvement. Heck even throwing Bryan back in (which nobody saw coming) brought some dividends (albeit for only a couple of his games). I don't see how giving Zak Brunt a run of games over an apathetic and lazy Lord Lundstram would have harmed us any more than what ultimately came to pass.
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Given these points come up over and over again it's barely worth the argument.

It may not have damaged our points total to play Brunt, but it could've damaged the lad. He's never played mens football. Plenty of promising youngsters end up having careers below league 2, so throwing him into a prem game might do him more harm than good.

Our academy manager has been put in charge of the team and even he won't play Brunt. Rather than our (understandably) frustrated fanbase realising the academy kids aren't ready, Hecky is branded as a clueless idiot in Wilder's pocket. I've made this same point which is backed up by several professional coaches weekly, just for people to say there's nothing to lose throwing in a kid to get mauled by Ceballos, Saka, Partey etc.
 
AWetFlannel said:
Given these points come up over and over again it's barely worth the argument.

It may not have damaged our points total to play Brunt, but it could've damaged the lad. He's never played mens football. Plenty of promising youngsters end up having careers below league 2, so throwing him into a prem game might do him more harm than good.
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It certainly didn't harm Harry Maguire's future did it when we played him for several games towards the end of the Micky Adams relegation season in the rough and tumble of the Championship.
 
guancheblade said:
It certainly didn't harm Harry Maguire's future did it when we played him for several games towards the end of the Micky Adams relegation season in the rough and tumble of the Championship.
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Some young players are ready. If Brunt ends up playing for Man U, it will raise the question as to whether we should've thrown him in this season.

Even still though, he might not have been ready at this point, he's still just a boy. Harry was a titan at 18.
 
AWetFlannel said:
Some young players are ready. If Brunt ends up playing for Man U, it will raise the question as to whether we should've thrown him in this season.

Even still though, he might not have been ready at this point, he's still just a boy. Harry was a titan at 18.
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Harry was a boy in a man’s body. With a butch lesbian’s head.
 
BushBlade said:
Good post and I agree there were so many things that have been out of the ordinary, that seem to have disadvantaged us. I’d also add that the lack of atmosphere and the training game feel to it has benefitted clubs with technical players. I’m not sure some of them would look quite as good playing in front of big crowds, there’s always been players who are shit hot in training but play more within themselves in front of crowds. There’s been no pressure on them at all when playing at the Lane, a place that can be very intimidating.

All this stuff has combined to create a perfect storm.
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Andy Parkinson was superb in training, he may have done well the last year.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together
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Not sure i agree with this mate. I think we've been a team greater thanthe sum of our parts when all pulling together.

This season with certain players (hi JL), management, board and so on pulling different directions has shown the individual quality of many players for what it is.

I don't think many players on their own in our current team are individually PL quality
 
jono_t2000 said:
Not sure i agree with this mate. I think we've been a team greater thanthe sum of our parts when all pulling together.

This season with certain players (hi JL), management, board and so on pulling different directions has shown the individual quality of many players for what it is.

I don't think many players on their own in our current team are individually PL quality
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I think we do agree? You left out "given the circumstances mentioned above" from the quote.

I also said I thought most of them are Championship standard individually.
 
Bergen Blade said:
I think Lundstram's success was dependent on superior fitness and motivation, which he acquired in the summer of 2020. There's been a slight decrease in both I reckon. Norwood just looks like he's aged ten years over the summer, struggling to keep up with faster opponents. Fleck - not sure, injuries may have played a part as you say, but he hasn't been able to take enough responsibility when we've lacked rhythm.

There have been others who've been tried in midfield (Berge, Bash, Ampadu, Osborn) and they've found it difficult too. I keep coming back to this, but have a look at how we do the opposite of what inferior teams tend to do, i.e. packing the midfield. We have three players, three miserable sods, being asked to cover a LOT of space, pressing and tracking some very talented opponents. Sure, have a go at each of them, but when nobody seems to thrive, when no combination seems to work, maybe it's time to have a look at the structure.

View attachment 110590
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Thought last night's 5-4-1 out of possession solved this problem to some extent and we looked much better for it.
 

cooperblade said:
Thought last night's 5-4-1 out of possession solved this problem to some extent and we looked much better for it.
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I Thought the same for a long time Cooperblade ,had the feeling I was missing something or being nieve ! .
Continuing to play 2 up top when no service from midfield seemed daft withdrawing a striker and adding an extra body in midfield would give us a better chance to get as foothold in midfield,no doubt our midfield have been chasing shadows all season.
Wilder had this phrase of playing on the front foot which we have rarely done all season getting some control would maybe have given us more chance to play on the front foot.
What disappoints me is the writing was on the wall after lockdown last season no real action was taken to review what was wrong and we have paid the price.Not normally negative but !I said after the 3 early defeats against Man city,Liverpool and Chelsea ! relegation was looming !.
Having said that its disappointing we didnt have a real crack at staying up,the players seemed to accept relegation around xmas time.About the time Wilders troubles with the board surfaced.
 
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