A defence of the players

[Bergen Blade]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

 

[Rodley]

Fully agree. Wilder’s tactical stubbornness and team selections have played their parts. This system hasn’t worked for over a year as teams just shut us down. Must be horrendous playing in a style everyone knows has stopped working and you lose every week. Anyone’s head would drop doing that for a year in any career.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

I see the decision to stick with the formation as pragmatic rather than stubborn. We could slightly tweak it and did on occasion, but this team was never going to succeed in a new system.

Any change to a back four would mean playing wide men. So either Fleck or Osborn as LM and Bogle or Lunny RM, or playing Burke, Brewster or Mousset as wingers. I don't think it would work and assume the previous management (and the current) thought the same.

I think slack should be cut all round, but the old guard and new signings have been slaughtered and written off, and Wilder is widely seen to have lost the plot.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Excellent post BB.

UTB

 

[Deadbat]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

Some good points made but I have actually gone the other way. This is one of the worst sides in top flight history. Most of these players signed extended contracts in the last year or so.

I think whilst they clearly massively overachieved last season, the efforts they have put in this season has been pathetic. They have lost 25 of 31 games and most of those 25 games despite the small margin narrative, we should have lost by much more.

I think rather than cutting them slack they actually are fortunate there has been no crowds there. Imagine the Lane watching them stroll around the place barely putting a tackle in?

Granted I accept as you say most are Champ players but that does not excuse the complete lack of fitness, running, effort and overall total lack of responsibility they have shown.

I think lower league teams would have given far better efforts at times this season than we have. I keep hearing they are doing their best? I actually don't think they are.

Rightly Wilder and now Heckingbottom are getting criticised for tactics, motivation and not trying things but at some point the players still have to take some responsibility.

The way we have just given up in recent games yo Leicester and Arsenal was happening a lot earlier in the season (Chelsea, Palace, Southampton etc). We have effectively given up in games long before the end and now look beaten before we start.

I also do not quite buy this level of interest our players may get. I could be wrong

Berge will go I agree.

O' Connell has to prove his fitness but granted if he does may get a move. Not sure anyone spends 10+ million on a soon to be 30 year old Egan. Baldock has tried hard but lacks quality for the top level. Ampadu will be in the Champ on loan next season...he makes poor decisions and it is not clear what his position is.

Noone is signing Bogle at the top level and Bryan is out of contract and again like with Lunny be surprised if a Prem club sides him.

Ramsdale is the only other outside of Berge teams might consider but his record last two seasons may put teams off.

The relegated teams sold a few players last season but mostly they were young or proven (played at top level for more than a season or two).

I am not sure we will see the rush to sign many players. To a man their reputation and worth has nosedived hugely. Fleck is an example. 12 months ago if we had been offered 15 mill we would have said no probably but now if we were offered 1.5 million we would probably take it.

In summary maybe I am wrong but I actually think the players have been cut too much slack. Everyone is going in on Lundstram but the pitiful efforts of a dozen others this season is probably more concerning than one man who is not going to be here. These other dozen are and have been as bad/disinterested as him.

These players got lauded as heroes and Bkades legends but I am afraid the way they have performed this season sadly for a fair few has tainted their tenure.

 

[Gaini Blade]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

Fair comment - comments should always be tempered with perspective. Our humour is about the only thing keeping us going at the mo though.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

As well as the horrors of watching United this season, it has not been good reading many of the instant emotional reactions on here. (I know football is an emotional game, but a balance between head and heart is needed.) It was a pleasure to read such a thoughtful analysis. Perhaps ‘pleasure’ is not quite the right word, but anything that helps with an understanding of the season’s failures is welcome.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Good post Bergen Blade and some good points, but I think that's possibly over analysing it. My view is just that too many fans can't accept that we don't have a team that is good enough for the PL and that this season is more or less what neutrals expected us to do last season. Last season now looks to have been some kind of miracle working, by manager and players alike, but it's given some fans the idea that it would have been a piece of piss to stay up comfortably this season - with a tweak here, a different player there, a different formation, etc.

My personal opinion is that the inclusion of some of the new signings as first-on-the-teamsheet when they weren't performing, particularly McBurnie, but also Berge last season, has been a major contribution, but there are plenty of other mistakes that can be pointed at - not replacing O'Connell, not reviewing the wage policy, not bringing in players that would enable different formations. Ramsdale replacing Henderson was a factor, but I don't think there was much we could do about that one.

It's all very subjective and too easy for people to assert with 100% certainty now that everything has collapsed what the reasons were, but I don't blame any individual or single event. Injuries have been devastating, no crowds undoubtedly a factor, but overall I think we simply saw the fragility of what gave us our best season in decades and I don't think anyone could have predicted just how fragile it was, even though many accepted we weren't likely to repeat the season's success.

The biggest disappointment for me is not relegation, or even the manner of relegation, it's the way so many have turned on the players and manager, the finger pointing, the blame game, the way the last few seasons are wiped away in anger at the current disaster. Anyone who knows nothing about it coming on to this forum for the first time would think that Wilder was the worst manager we've ever had and most of the players are dross that everyone is embarrassed about and no one wants to see at the club.
When people talk about the fans being the club, for me that doesn't speak well about our club, so yes I'm very willing to cut the players some slack because the big picture tells a different story.

 

[blades78]

Great post. I worry that the current system has been so ingrained into the players that it may take until the second half of next season to see a change in the existing squad. For over a year you could argue that we have been found out, with us having no answer to it. We've generally played a negative safe style of football, with players rarely taking any positive risks. Big job for whoever takes over, hopefully they can encourage players to play positive forward passes, put early crosses in, shoot from distance and generally back their own ability rather than fear giving the ball away.

 

[Mojo]

Football is a highly emotive game, people say daft things when they are feeling hurt. Next season, if we are doing well, all will be forgiven

 

[Gaini Blade]

Good post Bergen Blade and some good points, but I think that's possibly over analysing it. My view is just that too many fans can't accept that we don't have a team that is good enough for the PL and that this season is more or less what neutrals expected us to do last season. Last season now looks to have been some kind of miracle working, by manager and players alike, but it's given some fans the idea that it would have been a piece of piss to stay up comfortably this season - with a tweak here, a different player there, a different formation, etc.

My personal opinion is that the inclusion of some of the new signings as first-on-the-teamsheet when they weren't performing, particularly McBurnie, but also Berge last season, has been a major contribution, but there are plenty of other mistakes that can be pointed at - not replacing O'Connell, not reviewing the wage policy, not bringing in players that would enable different formations. Ramsdale replacing Henderson was a factor, but I don't think there was much we could do about that one.

It's all very subjective and too easy for people to assert with 100% certainty now that everything has collapsed what the reasons were, but I don't blame any individual or single event. Injuries have been devastating, no crowds undoubtedly a factor, but overall I think we simply saw the fragility of what gave us our best season in decades and I don't think anyone could have predicted just how fragile it was, even though many accepted we weren't likely to repeat the season's success.

The biggest disappointment for me is not relegation, or even the manner of relegation, it's the way so many have turned on the players and manager, the finger pointing, the blame game, the way the last few seasons are wiped away in anger at the current disaster. Anyone who knows nothing about it coming on to this forum for the first time would think that Wilder was the worst manager we've ever had and most of the players are dross that everyone is embarrassed about and no one wants to see at the club.
When people talk about the fans being the club, for me that doesn't speak well about our club, so yes I'm very willing to cut the players some slack because the big picture tells a different story.

True. There isn't a single individual or reason for our demise this season. It's been a perfect storm of badness.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Some good points made but I have actually gone the other way. This is one of the worst sides in top flight history. Most of these players signed extended contracts in the last year or so.

I think whilst they clearly massively overachieved last season, the efforts they have put in this season has been pathetic. They have lost 25 of 31 games and most of those 25 games despite the small margin narrative, we should have lost by much more.

I think rather than cutting them slack they actually are fortunate there has been no crowds there. Imagine the Lane watching them stroll around the place barely putting a tackle in?

Granted I accept as you say most are Champ players but that does not excuse the complete lack of fitness, running, effort and overall total lack of responsibility they have shown.

I think lower league teams would have given far better efforts at times this season than we have. I keep hearing they are doing their best? I actually don't think they are.

Rightly Wilder and now Heckingbottom are getting criticised for tactics, motivation and not trying things but at some point the players still have to take some responsibility.

The way we have just given up in recent games yo Leicester and Arsenal was happening a lot earlier in the season (Chelsea, Palace, Southampton etc). We have effectively given up in games long before the end and now look beaten before we start.

I also do not quite buy this level of interest our players may get. I could be wrong

Berge will go I agree.

O' Connell has to prove his fitness but granted if he does may get a move. Not sure anyone spends 10+ million on a soon to be 30 year old Egan. Baldock has tried hard but lacks quality for the top level. Ampadu will be in the Champ on loan next season...he makes poor decisions and it is not clear what his position is.

Noone is signing Bogle at the top level and Bryan is out of contract and again like with Lunny be surprised if a Prem club sides him.

Ramsdale is the only other outside of Berge teams might consider but his record last two seasons may put teams off.

The relegated teams sold a few players last season but mostly they were young or proven (played at top level for more than a season or two).

I am not sure we will see the rush to sign many players. To a man their reputation and worth has nosedived hugely. Fleck is an example. 12 months ago if we had been offered 15 mill we would have said no probably but now if we were offered 1.5 million we would probably take it.

In summary maybe I am wrong but I actually think the players have been cut too much slack. Everyone is going in on Lundstram but the pitiful efforts of a dozen others this season is probably more concerning than one man who is not going to be here. These other dozen are and have been as bad/disinterested as him.

These players got lauded as heroes and Bkades legends but I am afraid the way they have performed this season sadly for a fair few has tainted their tenure.

1.5 for Fleck.

Get out of town.

I don’t agree .

UTB

 

[TommyC]

Great post .... I was listening to a podcast the other day with Eddie Jones the England rugby head coach about how he's really big on trying to learn from other sports, one thing he's learnt from football is that most teams have a 2 year cycle and after that they start to fade for a number of reasons (players burnout, egos/complacency/injury etc) the really good coaches have the knack to get a team to 3 ... we got 4 under Wilder but the writings probably been on the wall for this team as a collective rather than individuals for a while now

 

[Mojo]

Good post Bergen Blade and some good points, but I think that's possibly over analysing it. My view is just that too many fans can't accept that we don't have a team that is good enough for the PL and that this season is more or less what neutrals expected us to do last season. Last season now looks to have been some kind of miracle working, by manager and players alike, but it's given some fans the idea that it would have been a piece of piss to stay up comfortably this season - with a tweak here, a different player there, a different formation, etc.

My personal opinion is that the inclusion of some of the new signings as first-on-the-teamsheet when they weren't performing, particularly McBurnie, but also Berge last season, has been a major contribution, but there are plenty of other mistakes that can be pointed at - not replacing O'Connell, not reviewing the wage policy, not bringing in players that would enable different formations. Ramsdale replacing Henderson was a factor, but I don't think there was much we could do about that one.

It's all very subjective and too easy for people to assert with 100% certainty now that everything has collapsed what the reasons were, but I don't blame any individual or single event. Injuries have been devastating, no crowds undoubtedly a factor, but overall I think we simply saw the fragility of what gave us our best season in decades and I don't think anyone could have predicted just how fragile it was, even though many accepted we weren't likely to repeat the season's success.

The biggest disappointment for me is not relegation, or even the manner of relegation, it's the way so many have turned on the players and manager, the finger pointing, the blame game, the way the last few seasons are wiped away in anger at the current disaster. Anyone who knows nothing about it coming on to this forum for the first time would think that Wilder was the worst manager we've ever had and most of the players are dross that everyone is embarrassed about and no one wants to see at the club.
When people talk about the fans being the club, for me that doesn't speak well about our club, so yes I'm very willing to cut the players some slack because the big picture tells a different story.

I feel the reason people are getting so up upset is we genuinely thought things were different this time, we had finally made it and gained international respect and having spent an insane amount by our standards, we thought we might be able to establish ourselves. Instead we are suffering complete public humiliation. No one thought it would be easy to stay up. And after spending so much money and finishing 9th last season fans are reasonable to expect we have a team capable of at least competing. I'm not sure what you expect fans to say or think when we get battered 3 nil at home and the midfield don't make a single tackle between them all game.

It was a fairytale where everyone was thinking it would end happily ever after. Instead the fairytale turned into a nightmare

 

[Geordie Blade]

I think it's simply down to the players' dropping 5% in energy. For our type of play, that makes all the difference, and leads to a viscous circle / downward spiral. Watching games from last season, it's incredible to see the difference in speed (the 5% difference meant that we'd have two players going into every tackle, or two extra players appearing in the box when we break forward).

So I don't think it's the system being found out. That said, Wilder was incredibly naïve to stick with it so stubbornly. At the very least, changing it up week to week would have disrupted the opposition (and maybe even disrupted our own spiralling confidence nose dive).

We spent years scoffing at 'pashun' and 'momentum', but it's clear now that those played a huge part in our rise. The way that we start next season will be crucial, no matter what system we play.

 

[JJBlade]

The team ethic and all in it together attitude was greater than the sum of its parts

But we all knew something unbelievable was going to happen to ruin it.

The various levels of unbelievableness had been discussed on this board many times.
An asteroid strike, aliens landing, an earthquake causing a tsunami that washed half the country away, nuclear war, they'd all been mentioned.

But in reality it had to be something that would effect us, but not anybody else, so the above disasters weren't really going to happen.

Turns out it was a deadly disease.

It effected us more than everybody else because it ended the "all in it together" attititude by putting the players in isolation, the one and only thing that gave us our edge, was gone.

We all knew it was coming, we just didn't know what it was going to be.

And God is a complete cunt that hates our football club, I have never been more convinced about anything

 

[Bergen Blade]

Some good points made but I have actually gone the other way. This is one of the worst sides in top flight history. Most of these players signed extended contracts in the last year or so.

I think whilst they clearly massively overachieved last season, the efforts they have put in this season has been pathetic. They have lost 25 of 31 games and most of those 25 games despite the small margin narrative, we should have lost by much more.

I think rather than cutting them slack they actually are fortunate there has been no crowds there. Imagine the Lane watching them stroll around the place barely putting a tackle in?

Granted I accept as you say most are Champ players but that does not excuse the complete lack of fitness, running, effort and overall total lack of responsibility they have shown.

I think lower league teams would have given far better efforts at times this season than we have. I keep hearing they are doing their best? I actually don't think they are.

Rightly Wilder and now Heckingbottom are getting criticised for tactics, motivation and not trying things but at some point the players still have to take some responsibility.

The way we have just given up in recent games yo Leicester and Arsenal was happening a lot earlier in the season (Chelsea, Palace, Southampton etc). We have effectively given up in games long before the end and now look beaten before we start.

I also do not quite buy this level of interest our players may get. I could be wrong

Berge will go I agree.

O' Connell has to prove his fitness but granted if he does may get a move. Not sure anyone spends 10+ million on a soon to be 30 year old Egan. Baldock has tried hard but lacks quality for the top level. Ampadu will be in the Champ on loan next season...he makes poor decisions and it is not clear what his position is.

Noone is signing Bogle at the top level and Bryan is out of contract and again like with Lunny be surprised if a Prem club sides him.

Ramsdale is the only other outside of Berge teams might consider but his record last two seasons may put teams off.

The relegated teams sold a few players last season but mostly they were young or proven (played at top level for more than a season or two).

I am not sure we will see the rush to sign many players. To a man their reputation and worth has nosedived hugely. Fleck is an example. 12 months ago if we had been offered 15 mill we would have said no probably but now if we were offered 1.5 million we would probably take it.

In summary maybe I am wrong but I actually think the players have been cut too much slack. Everyone is going in on Lundstram but the pitiful efforts of a dozen others this season is probably more concerning than one man who is not going to be here. These other dozen are and have been as bad/disinterested as him.

These players got lauded as heroes and Bkades legends but I am afraid the way they have performed this season sadly for a fair few has tainted their tenure.

We were top of the league in terms of distance covered according to a stat I saw a few weeks ago, not sure if we've stayed there. It probably shows that our players are trying pretty hard, but are using energy ineffectively. Our defence have been lacking intensity and dynamism in my opinion.

Regarding 'cutting them some slack', I'm not saying we should feel sorry for them.

I'm saying that there are reasons (us being collectively crap) that have contributed to them looking worse individually. Hence they could do better if (somehow) put in another side where circumstances - role, teammates, tactics, formation, spirit in the camp, etc - are different. So, forget the realism of Burnley bidding, or even needing Egan, imagine Mee being injured and Egan being put in his spot alongside Tarkowski. He may not have looked out of place. And similar with the other ones mentioned.

 

[Grappler]

I have given this some thought, and sort of come to the conclusion that most of the established Premier League clubs will have kept a casual eye on our rise from League 1, read the newspaper articles about our crazy, overlapping centre backs, and decided that we were nothing too much to worry about, with no big name players, and they concentrated on how they were going to line up against Man City, Chelsea, Leicester, etc.

We played well, we gave some big teams a scare, and finished a very credible 9th.

At the end of the season, with more thinking and planning time, I would dare bet that quite a few of the teams thought, "right, what do we do about Sheffield United this season?, we should have a quick look at some of their games, see what they do", and we end up with this season.

I still don't quite fully understand how some players have literally fallen off a cliff.

Enda, last season, forever charging down the wing and getting crosses in, Baldock similar (to a certain extent) on the other side.

Losing JOC and then Egan, and then Basham.....you really couldn't expect all three to be missing at the same time.

The same old questions keep coming back as well, why did we bring Verrips in?, what did CW and AK see in Max Lowe so that they decided he should come with Bogle. Luke Freeman......... we must have all asked ourselves the same questions.

Relegation doesn't bother me in the long run, I'll have a much better chance of getting away tickets (once Covid lifts) in the Championship, but it's going down in the bottom spot, with such terrible "records" being broken, that gets to me.

 

[Deadbat]

1.5 for Fleck.

Get out of town.

I don’t agree .

UTB

Too much?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Too much?

He hasn’t been great. Who has in this awful malaise of a campaign ?

Technically, he remains our best footballer.

Of that I have no doubt.

UTB

 

[originaltrueblade]

So many circumstances changed everything but the pandemic played a larger role than most no fans at the Lane when opposition players past and present openly tell you that they hated coming to the our place but now without fans they don’t.

One thing for sure BLADES FANS ARE THE BEST and yes we do blow that ball in the net and yes we do intimidate the opposition and when we are back you will see a rejuvenated team and a frightened opposition

 

[alcoblade]

Good post Bergen Blade and some good points, but I think that's possibly over analysing it. My view is just that too many fans can't accept that we don't have a team that is good enough for the PL and that this season is more or less what neutrals expected us to do last season. Last season now looks to have been some kind of miracle working, by manager and players alike, but it's given some fans the idea that it would have been a piece of piss to stay up comfortably this season - with a tweak here, a different player there, a different formation, etc.

My personal opinion is that the inclusion of some of the new signings as first-on-the-teamsheet when they weren't performing, particularly McBurnie, but also Berge last season, has been a major contribution, but there are plenty of other mistakes that can be pointed at - not replacing O'Connell, not reviewing the wage policy, not bringing in players that would enable different formations. Ramsdale replacing Henderson was a factor, but I don't think there was much we could do about that one.

It's all very subjective and too easy for people to assert with 100% certainty now that everything has collapsed what the reasons were, but I don't blame any individual or single event. Injuries have been devastating, no crowds undoubtedly a factor, but overall I think we simply saw the fragility of what gave us our best season in decades and I don't think anyone could have predicted just how fragile it was, even though many accepted we weren't likely to repeat the season's success.

The biggest disappointment for me is not relegation, or even the manner of relegation, it's the way so many have turned on the players and manager, the finger pointing, the blame game, the way the last few seasons are wiped away in anger at the current disaster. Anyone who knows nothing about it coming on to this forum for the first time would think that Wilder was the worst manager we've ever had and most of the players are dross that everyone is embarrassed about and no one wants to see at the club.
When people talk about the fans being the club, for me that doesn't speak well about our club, so yes I'm very willing to cut the players some slack because the big picture tells a different story.

"The biggest disappointment for me is not relegation, or even the manner of relegation, it's the way so many have turned on the players and manager, the finger pointing, the blame game, the way the last few seasons are wiped away in anger at the current disaster"

I'm in contact with lots on Blades fans who don't use social media. You get a different impression there. Whilst everyone acknowledges mistakes have been made, that the players and management are not blameless - you don't get the same OTT appraisal of the situation. When polls are created on here, most were behind Wilder, even though the noise on the forums gave you a totally different impression.

The fact is, social media on the whole is the heaven of the bedwetter, those social inadequates who are ignored in the real world. It's a terrible barometer of wider opinion.

 

[Booker4]

Some good points made but I have actually gone the other way. This is one of the worst sides in top flight history. Most of these players signed extended contracts in the last year or so.

I think whilst they clearly massively overachieved last season, the efforts they have put in this season has been pathetic. They have lost 25 of 31 games and most of those 25 games despite the small margin narrative, we should have lost by much more.

I think rather than cutting them slack they actually are fortunate there has been no crowds there. Imagine the Lane watching them stroll around the place barely putting a tackle in?

Granted I accept as you say most are Champ players but that does not excuse the complete lack of fitness, running, effort and overall total lack of responsibility they have shown.

I think lower league teams would have given far better efforts at times this season than we have. I keep hearing they are doing their best? I actually don't think they are.

Rightly Wilder and now Heckingbottom are getting criticised for tactics, motivation and not trying things but at some point the players still have to take some responsibility.

The way we have just given up in recent games yo Leicester and Arsenal was happening a lot earlier in the season (Chelsea, Palace, Southampton etc). We have effectively given up in games long before the end and now look beaten before we start.

I also do not quite buy this level of interest our players may get. I could be wrong

Berge will go I agree.

O' Connell has to prove his fitness but granted if he does may get a move. Not sure anyone spends 10+ million on a soon to be 30 year old Egan. Baldock has tried hard but lacks quality for the top level. Ampadu will be in the Champ on loan next season...he makes poor decisions and it is not clear what his position is.

Noone is signing Bogle at the top level and Bryan is out of contract and again like with Lunny be surprised if a Prem club sides him.

Ramsdale is the only other outside of Berge teams might consider but his record last two seasons may put teams off.

The relegated teams sold a few players last season but mostly they were young or proven (played at top level for more than a season or two).

I am not sure we will see the rush to sign many players. To a man their reputation and worth has nosedived hugely. Fleck is an example. 12 months ago if we had been offered 15 mill we would have said no probably but now if we were offered 1.5 million we would probably take it.

In summary maybe I am wrong but I actually think the players have been cut too much slack. Everyone is going in on Lundstram but the pitiful efforts of a dozen others this season is probably more concerning than one man who is not going to be here. These other dozen are and have been as bad/disinterested as him.

These players got lauded as heroes and Bkades legends but I am afraid the way they have performed this season sadly for a fair few has tainted their tenure.

There is a lack of quality but I don't see players giving in. Take Norwood for example. His running is still there, he's covering large areas of the pitch and tracking players, or more often than not zonal space rather than a man (which does my head when the ball goes to the man he's not marking), but I don't see it as a lack of effort. I would only say Mousset and Lunny should attract criticism for their attitude.

I do agree that our performances are just not good enough, but so much went to pot when O'Connell got injured as he is our best defender, along with Egan, and offers so much going forward. The O'Connell injury has also made Stevens look crap as Stevens and O'Connell were so used to playing together and the replacements for O'Connells were no where good enough, which has exposed Stevens who was obviously the weaker of the two in the partnership on the left of defence. I still think we'd have got relegated this season with O'Connell fit, but I suspect that we'd have competed more, had the odd more result. Losing Berge and O'Connel didn't help either because then we've had to play the same usual three in midfield and with Ampadu then used in defence.

Our strength last season was keeping thngs tight and winnng 1- 0 most wins. When O'Connel left we were no longer strong at the back as a whole. For a team that relied on clean sheets and didn't score many goals, losing O'Connell was a massive blow, especially when the replacement was either Bryan or Robinson until late November when Wilder started with Ampadu who was a better option.

For those that say we we should have changed formation, there's a few issues with that, such as Basham can't play in midfield as well as he does in his RCB role, I don't see Basham as doing as well in a flat four either and we only have one out an out winger if we went to four across midfield. We could have played three midfielders behind one forward, again this would mean that Basham would be in midfield or a flat four at the back. The other factor is that the players are so used to playing in the 3-5-2 formation and to change it in the form we were in would likely not improve things. I think with the injuries to Basham of late and O'Connell through the season that we should have tried chnges to the formation of late, under Hecky essentially.

Wilder knew we needed reinforcements this summer but he needed a goalkeeper, more competition for the wing backs, a centre mid and defensive cover. He got the forward, the goalkeeper and the wing back competition but not the centre mid and LCB cover which we desperately needed. Then there's the lack of form from the entire midfield, Berge the exception until injured. I'm not so sure Wilder could ever have made it right with all of the various factors, and the players are giving their all in my view, there's just a lack of so many factors, confidence from winning an obvious one.

Watching the Arsenal game as the last example, the positional sense from the players is lacking, the entire midfield is far too deep and we allowed Arsenal players to run from deepm or to get between the lines on countless times, that led to two of the three goals. Too many players bal lwatching, particularly the midfield and not picking up players.

But all of the above is not due to a lack of effort. I agree more tacklig could be done at times, we don't get tight enough on our men too often. That's a lack of organisation that the coaches should be sorting. They just look lost now and I think a new manager would get them playing much better. The problem with the caretaker appointment is that it's short term and the players know he won't be there next season, and he's not seemingly got the authority/respect that Wilder naturally commanded, solely because Wilder always commanded respect, Hecky is an Academy guy and I'm not so sure could ever get much more out of the players in the above circumstances.

 

[guancheblade]

I see the decision to stick with the formation as pragmatic rather than stubborn. We could slightly tweak it and did on occasion, but this team was never going to succeed in a new system.

Any change to a back four would mean playing wide men. So either Fleck or Osborn as LM and Bogle or Lunny RM, or playing Burke, Brewster or Mousset as wingers. I don't think it would work and assume the previous management (and the current) thought the same.

I think slack should be cut all round, but the old guard and new signings have been slaughtered and written off, and Wilder is widely seen to have lost the plot.

Yeah but the point is you won't know if you don't try. We've been losing every game so why not mix it up? There's nothing to lose and its been the case for long before Wilder departed.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

A thought provoking and measured post Bergen Blade .

I think that’s what is missing from the analysis and many of the follow up posts is recognition that something started going badly wrong last season, not this one.

After the enforced break, we had a real glut of catch up games to get through and form fell off a cliff. Were we sussed out, did we not train effectively, did we have too many games in quick succession in front of empty stadia? Maybe some or all of these things.

What we can say is that we went from being on the verge of qualifying for Europe to the slippery slope to relegation this season with the same tactics and largely the same players. What had worked so well, suddenly didn’t. It’s very puzzling.

 

[Swannyblade]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

A lot of good points well made but one thing I can't forgive is cowardly performances. Too many players too many times this season have tried to pass on responsibility, taken the easy backwards pass, made a token effort to track a marker or put in a powder puff excuse of a challenge. Bravery and adventure were two of the attributes that helped to make this team great and sadly they've disappeared. What's emerged is a gutless United team and that is something that directly opposes what we came to expect under the majority of Wilder's tenure as manager.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Wilder's team peaked last season. We had confidence and momentum from the promotions, an unusual style that PL teams struggled to deal with, and a team where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It was a team that had taken a few years to develop, during which time many players had come and gone. The players knew each other and their individual roles so well. We managed to disrupt other teams' rhythm and make the games about what we were good at. It was great fun reading Roy's View From with opposition fans always saying their team had an off day.

But gradually teams started to take us more seriously, and this season we've got to admit that we've been found out. In fact, I think Wilder's spectacular fall from grace was primarily down to not accepting we'd been found out. We just tried to get things going again, hoping that the odd change in team selection would bring back the good times. Failing to see what other teams did to us, how they managed to make the games about what they were good at.

Without momentum and confidence, and better prepared opposition teams, our style became ineffective. The players tried their best in their respective roles, but the moves didn't lead to chances. Defensively our midfield's inability to cover enough space was largely ignored by the management. This has been the biggest problem this season and ruined so much for other aspects of our game. Certain tweaks wasn't enough to address it. A clear change from what had stopped working was required, but the management refused to make a formation change. I think this was unfair on the players, who's been looking worse than they really are.

Individually most of them are Championship standard. But Championship standard players can do well at a higher level, at least for some time. We saw that last season. But often they would have to play the exact right role, being asked to the things they do well, while their weaknesses are being compensated by others or reduced in relevance by certain tactical moves. An example - Jags looking miserable at RCB in a poorly organised defence at home vs Man Utd - and Jags looking excellent at the heart of the defence away vs Man Utd when we got our tactics right.

Following such a nightmare of a season it is understandable that fans lose faith in the players. And while most of these players proved last season that they could do well at PL level, they have proven this season that they can't do well together, given the circumstances mentioned above. As individual players, in other teams, a few may still be considered good enough.

I don't expect big interest from PL clubs this summer. But maybe Egan could do a job in a different formation and different setup at Burnley or Newcastle. Maybe Baldock would cope in Leeds' energetic side, if not necessarily as first choice? Maybe a newly promoted side would feel Fleck could offer some experience? Berge and O'Connell (if proven fitness) are likely to attract interest and there's been rumours about Ramsdale and Bryan. Bogle may also have shown enough to attract bids. Ampadu may also get another PL loan. That is 9 current players and I think a lot of decent Championship clubs would consider a number of the rest if the price was right.


So this has been an awful season and I agree the team has looked embarrassing at times. Threads are popping up with some tough criticism of individuals and match reports are posted with very low ratings, this is to be expected. But while I think a few players should be coming to the end of their spell with us, there is some ability around that are likely to show more when circumstances change. It may be with us, or elsewhere. This season has been a failure to such an extent that evaluating players' individual ability and potential is quite hard. We should probably cut them some slack.

Very good post.

One area you've not considered is the athleticism/conditioning of the current squad.

It's Been noticeable this season that we're not as fit, strong, dynamic, explosive as pretty much every other side we've played.

Has that been due to injuries and/or players falling off a cliff. Fleck has been injured, Stevens and Norwood look like they've past their physical peak. Even Basham and Egan have looked flat footed and tired throughout the season...

Goes under the heading of not being their fault, but we've seen this side age right before our very eyes.

 

[bypassblade]

We play 38 games this season and so far we're on 25 defeats meaning in terms of games lost to games played ratio it has to be our worst ever season I can remember. I watched 1st 35 minutes Sunday and we were bright and then Didzy should have scored, then Arsenal did and you knew what was coming heads dropped balls went astray badly.

I am lost to understand what has gone so dramatically wrong but yes CW through his obstinacy has to take much of the blame, we stuck to a system that was "sussed" ages ago but he was too stubborn to accept it.

I have never minded us losing in all my time as a Blade as long as we go down battling sadly, that has been very lacking this season and at times we have been an embarrassment to watch. Let the season end, go down regroup with a new manager??? and have a damn good clear-out last season the football had fans purring this season cringing.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Yeah but the point is you won't know if you don't try. We've been losing every game so why not mix it up? There's nothing to lose and its been the case for long before Wilder departed.

You can't know but you can make educated guesses.

We had games to lose, that we did anyway doesn't mean that it was assured.

When we tailed off at the end of our first Championship season you could've made the same argument. Our form had dropped off, injuries meant we couldn't play the system effectively so what do we have to lose? Thank fuck we didn't change it then.

There was a chance that things would turn around for Wilder and his system. It worked before. Injuries made repeating that harder, but using the same 2nd and 3rd choice players in a new system was hardly guaranteed to be more successful.

 

[robbiez666]

1.5 for Fleck.

Get out of town.

I don’t agree .

UTB

I doubt we'd get that for him tbh in the current market. Few Championship clubs will spend a lot of money. 30 this summer. Contracted until he's 32 so any club would need to match that. Hardly Mr fitness, noticeably taking longer than everyone else to get match-fit, so best days probably behind him. Signed a contract last year so will be on a high Championship wage after relegation reduction. Can't see many takers, unless it's as a PL squad player. Guess Villa might be interested as cover for McGinn, maybe? Maybe Burnley if he's cheap.