60 years ago this month...

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Peter Hindley passed away a few days ago

Presumably he is the other Forest defender in the picture?

 

[ancientblade]

Presumably he is the other Forest defender in the picture?

im putting these pics in wrong thread arnt i lol

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

im putting these pics in wrong thread arnt i lol

Look at it positively- you are putting them in this thread a year or two early. You would certainly get a bigger audience in the Old Photos thread. But some of them over there regard a picture from 2019 as an old photo

 

[Silent Blade]

Presumably he is the other Forest defender in the picture?

Yes




The Forest player on the far left looks more like Bob McKinlay than John Winfield as stated in caption

 

[ancientblade]

Yes

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The Forest player on the far left looks more like Bob McKinlay than John Winfield as stated in caption

remember this game well as a 15 year old lad was in the ground at 1.30 to try and get a spot near the shoreham boys behind the goal but forest had a great side back then and they outplayed us think the next home game was the derby with wednesday when everybody moved up to the top of the kop some shenanigans on there that day my mate got taken out at 2.15 with gash on forehead from a flying tin can

 

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Feb 11, 1961: Utd 2-1 Luton Town
Attendance: 16716

Another match which I have to confess I have no memory of, and no photos/report in the scrapbook. Perhaps the newspapers had been used to light the coal fire on cold February days, before I could cut out what I wanted; perhaps it was because I was doing lots of homework; whatever the reason, it wasn’t because I had discovered girls at that stage, and I can only apologise for only having pictures of the programme to add.
The main piece of information has just been given on the 50 Years Ago thread, with the startling coincidence that in February 1961 and February 1971, in the battle for promotion from the Second Division, our first home game was against Luton, a team we rarely played against, and on each occasion we won 2-1 and went on to win promotion. Extensive research suggests that this is a coincidence rather than a regular phenomenon, as, unlike the 13-year curse, it has never been repeated. And don’t tell me the 13-year curse has been defeated: the footballing gods saw that King Wilder had made relegation impossible in 2020, and in revenge sent Coronavirus to get the season suspended, and prevent our fans from attending any Utd matches in the PL in 20-21, before we return to second-tier football. In the spirit of the times, our curse has mutated into an even deadlier form.
Well, that shows that I had nothing to write about for this game. Luton had not won an away game that season, but clearly gave us a fright by going into the half-time break 1-0 up. Russell and Simpson, both in good form at the time, scored in the second half to get us the 2 points, and the programme the following week merely comments that we dominated both halves and deserved to win. When did a programme ever say otherwise? The programme talks mainly about the Blackburn match, about which I have clear memories and plenty of material. The Cup clearly was the main focus of attention, with again a small attendance for the Luton game. Another coincidence was that this game was against Luton, losing cup-finalists in 1959; Blackburn, coming to the Lane the following week, were losing finalists in 1960.

 

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FA Cup 4th Round
Jan 28, 1961: United 3-1 Lincoln
Attendance: 21651

Anyone reading this who wasn’t around in the 50s and 60s (and I doubt many such people read this thread!) would find it difficult to understand that this was a big day. The 4th Round Cup-tie v Plymouth a few days ago would have attracted a low crowd if crowds had been allowed in, but the unattractive fixture v Lincoln 60 years ago attracted the biggest home crowd up to that point in the season except for the Xmas match against Sunderland. The crowd of 21651 was not big by Cup standards of the day, but was impressive in view of the fact that Wednesday at the same time were playing ManU in front of 58000 people at Hillsborough. It was tough supporting United at a time when Wednesday were genuinely a big club, and it still makes me shudder to recall that after a 1-1 draw at Hillsborough, Wednesday won the replay at Old Trafford 7-2. We consoled ourselves with the thought that we played the better football, but there was a serious concern that Wednesday were establishing themselves as a successful club.
That was a worry for another day, however. For the moment we had a promotion push and a Cup run progressing nicely, and as the programme notes say, there was no reason to think that the successes in each competition would not help momentum in the other. Lincoln were not strong opposition, and United navigated this game without undue difficulty. Hodgy, in his autobiography, says that from his point of view, it was one of the quietist matches of his career. Lincoln had 2 former United players who had not established themselves at the Lane: Denis Gratton at centre-half, and Jeff Smith at left-back. A lovely irony about this was that he was marking Cliff Mason, a reserve left-back playing as an emergency winger; Jeff Smith’s only league game for United was at Liverpool, where previous manager Joe Mercer decided to play 2 left-backs (Graham Shaw and Jeff Smith) on either wing. That experiment failed totally, but John Harris’s experiment with Mason turned out well - yet again Mason scored in this convincing win. A third, better-known ex-Blade, Derek Hawksworth, had recently moved on to Bradford.
The scrapbook records the event quite well. For the Cup games, there were always pictures of players in the build-up (in this case Richardson knitting - don’t ask! - and Coldwell taking his medicine, probably not the same one taken by Paddy Kenny in later years). The report makes clear Utd’s dominance, with positive comments on both defence and attack. And enough photos to bring it to life, with both teams playing in changed kit (Utd in red); strangely, Gratton and Smith seem to keep cropping up in them.
So, it was on to Round 5 in February. Wednesday were still in the draw, and this was our 4th year in a row in at least the 5th Round; remarkably, this record continued for a further 3 years.
I also include an item from the programme about the Juniors, which includes info on some familiar players (they lost the game v Wednesday 5-0 ); and the scoreboard, which includes Luton 2-6 Man City. It has a letter A next to it. The match was abandoned after 69 minutes, and Denis Law had scored all 6 goals. His goals were wiped from the record-books. In the replayed game he scored again, but they lost 3-1; he always claimed to be the only player to have scored 7 goals in a cup-tie and ended up on the losing side!
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Very obscure fact: last night’s 5-4 win for Everton over Spurs in the 5th Round of the Cup was the first time that 9 goals have been scored in a cup-tie between 2 teams from the top flight in the Cup since the replay between Man Utd and Wednesday in 1961 (according to the BBC match report this morning).

 

[Silent Blade]

Bert used to occasionally call in at The Crown Inn, Potter Hill on the Wortley Rd as his Uncle drank there. Jeff Smith was and still is the landlord, Bert had many a chat with him.
Last heard, he only open Saturday nights.

 

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FA Cup Round 5
February 18, 1961: United 2-1 Blackburn
Attendance: 43,720

As the 2020-21 season continues to get worse, it is good to indulge in some welcome nostalgia with another big occasion and another opportunity for a giant-killing. At this time, the Cup was the most important competition for players and fans alike, with Cup games attracting the biggest crowds of the season. Players would not be rested in Cup matches - if anything, it would have been more likely that a player was rested in a league game ahead of a Cup game.
Part of the nostalgia for this era comes from United’s remarkable run of success in the competition. As a Second Division side, this was the fourth successive season we had reached at least the 5th round, and on the way we had giant-killed Spurs, Arsenal, Forest, and Everton, and Blackburn and Newcastle were about to be added to the list of famous scalps. Apart from the excitement of a giant-killing, each one confirmed that United were a good footballing side capable of beating teams from the top division on merit.
The cuttings from the scrapbook always provide a reminder of the fact that Cup weeks were special. There were pictures of the players either at home or in training, and this week’s offering is of jockey Joe Sime riding Joe Shaw as other players cheer them on. I have no idea what connection Joe Sime had with Sheffield or United.
Blackburn arrived at the Lane as strong and welcome opponents. They had been losing cup finalists the previous season; they were 5th in League 1; they had big-name players ( Ron Clayton, Bryan Douglas, Peter Dobing, Derek Dougan...); and though the programme was too polite to mention it, many of us welcomed Blackburn as the team which had beaten Wednesday in the semi-final in 1960, with special gratitude to Derek Dougan, who scored both their goals that day. He was always welcome at the Lane.
There is an interesting comment on the game by Hodgy in his autobiography: he says that Blackburn had been close to the top of English football for a while, without winning a trophy, and the United players sensed an anxiety in their play from the beginning. They were thus able to go for the jugular from the beginning, and dominated the first half, establishing a 2-0 lead by half-time. The match report supports this analysis.
United kicked towards the Kop first half, and both goals stick in the memory from our position at the front of the Kop, slightly to the left of the goal. The first goal resulted from a massive slice of luck, as Summers shot from distance, the ball hit Russell on the bum, and we knew from that moment that the ball was going to go in, as the wrong-footed keeper was in no position to get across and stop it (see scrapbook pic). We gave the goal to Summers in the programme scribbling, but history has awarded it (correctly) to Russell’s bum. The second goal was a classic. Simpson cross from the right, perfectly timed leap and header from Pace back across goal, and a header from inches out by the diminutive Hodgson. The top picture of the goal in the scrapbook shows Pace seated amongst the photographers, his momentum having taken him off the pitch. Classic Pace.
The second-half was tense, with Blackburn attacking the Kop (the crowd was too big to allow us to walk round to the Lane End), scoring one goal and having another controversially disallowed. Hodgson’s disallowed goal (see pics) was less controversial. But we hung on for victory, and once more found ourselves in Round 6. And - rather worryingly - so did Wednesday. Surely we would not have to face them for the second year running in the 6th Round. The school would be full of transistor radios on Monday lunchtime for the live draw...
Pictures follow in next post.

 

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[Silent Blade]

Jack Marshall returned to Wendy to be assistant to Alan Brown during the 1967-68 season. When Brown resigned to become Sunderland in February 1968, Marshall became Wendy's manager. He left in summer 1969. Arthur Rowley was our manager just for the 1968-69 season too

 

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Jack Marshall returned to Wendy to be assistant to Alan Brown during the 1967-68 season. When Brown resigned to become Sunderland in February 1968, Marshall became Wendy's manager. He left in summer 1969. Arthur Rowley was our manager just for the 1968-69 season too

Another manager of interest from that game is Ally MacLeod, who took Scotland to the 1978 World Cup finals amidst severe over-hyping of their possibilities. Defeat to Peru and a draw with Iran soon brought the Tartan Army down to earth, though a win over Holland was impressive, but not enough to prevent elimination.

 

[Silent Blade]

Another manager of interest from that game is Ally MacLeod, who took Scotland to the 1978 World Cup finals amidst severe over-hyping of their possibilities. Defeat to Peru and a draw with Iran soon brought the Tartan Army down to earth, though a win over Holland was impressive, but not enough to prevent elimination.

August 21st 1971, my family were on on a holiday at Butlins in Ayr. It was on the same day as when we won with a Woody goal at Everton, my dad and I went to watch the Ayr v Celtic League Cup group match. Celtic won 3-0. MacLeod was Ayr's manager at the time. Years later when it was announced in the news that he had been appointed the new manager of Scotland, my dad told me "He spoke to us after the Ayr v Celtic match as I recognised him from his Blackburn days"

 

[ancientblade]

Jack Marshall returned to Wendy to be assistant to Alan Brown during the 1967-68 season. When Brown resigned to become Sunderland in February 1968, Marshall became Wendy's manager. He left in summer 1969. Arthur Rowley was our manager just for the 1968-69 season too

according to hodgy in his book they hardly ever saw arthur rowley he was always in his office listening to the horse racing lol thank god john harris was still about lol

 

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Three random loose ends from the Blackburn match:
1. The Cup draw kept United and Wednesday apart. Wednesday played Burnley, and lost after a replay. Burnley earned my gratitude for that, but unfortunately they did the same to us in the 6th round in 1962, as our amazing Cup record continued. It is a measure of what a good position Sheffield football was in - Wednesday finished second in League 1, and 6th round in the Cup, and we got promoted and made the semi-finals.

2. The programme looks back at the best-ever game v Blackburn, a 7-5 win for the Blades in 1929-30. At the time that seemed like ancient history to me, but it was only 30 years previously - the same as looking back now at 1990, which seems like yesterday. This thread looks back 60 years - the equivalent in 1961 would have taken us back to 1901, and that is ancient history! I suddenly feel very old...
Jimmy Dunne and Fred Tunstall figured prominently in the 7-5 match; apparently the saying at the time was ‘Tunny-Dunne-it’. It will need a good tune, or it won’t catch on!

3. I looked in the programme to see the next fixture, and it suggested I had a week before posting about Scunthorpe away. On looking at the Scunthorpe programme (I do try to prepare these posts in advance!), I noticed we had 2 more points than I expected. Turns out we had a re-arranged midweek match at Lincoln; it never appeared in the list of results in any programme for the rest of that season. Never trust what you read!

 

[ancientblade]

burnley had a very good side at that time

 

[bornablade]

burnley had a very good side at that time

As did Leicester. Three FA Cup final appearances in the 1960's (lost all of them).

No real superstars (except Gordon Banks) but a consistently good team.

And still doing it today.

 

[Silent Blade]

burnley had a very good side at that time

Apart from 1954-55 and 1964-65, they finished in the top 7 places from 1952-53 to 1965-66 seasons

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

After Spurs, Burnley were my 2nd favourite ‘other’ team. Had good players, played good football, played as a team. They were lucky to beat Utd 1-0 in the 6th Round, with Summers a passenger for 87 minutes. But we got our revenge soon after, with a 2-0 win in the league.

 

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Feb 22, 1961: Lincoln 0-5 United
Attendance: 5263

This is the re-arranged match from the previous Saturday when United were playing the Cup match v Blackburn. It was a Wednesday afternoon kick-off, as Lincoln had no floodlights, and the programme makes it clear that times were hard for them. They were bottom of the league, no money, and just about to experience their heaviest defeat of the season.
I know I did not get to the game. I have no idea who wrote some of the notes (in blue)
in the programme, and even if it had been half term, it would have made no difference, as half term then was Friday and Monday off, and Tuesday if it was after Speech Day when the distinguished guest ‘asked’ the Headteacher if we could have an extra day off as a reward for our hard work. As if the staff would be upset to have a day off...
Anyway, it was a pity to have missed the game, as the report makes clear it was a good performance, with the forwards in particular taking advantage of the gulf in class. The return of Kettleborough from injury provided the context for the announcement in the Blackburn programme that Hamilton had been transfer-listed. We still had the problem of Mason, reserve left-back, playing on the right-wing, but he had done amazingly well, and reinforcements were soon to arrive. Interestingly, the programme notes say Mason was equally at home at full-back or wing-half, yet here he was playing regularly on the right-wing. Strange times!
Another relatively local game, at Scunthorpe, was next up, 3 days later.

 

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Feb 25, 1961: Scunthorpe 1-1 United
Attendance: 10873

The games came thick and fast. I went to this game (by train), and for some reason remember the anticipation and reaction afterwards, but not the game itself. We went full of optimism, with Utd on a great run of form, and Scunthorpe were one of the teams we never seemed to lose against. Indeed, we remained unbeaten against them in this period in League 2. On the other hand, Scunthorpe were improving; they were in the top half of the league, and their main striker, Barrie Thomas, had just broken the club record for League goals scored in one season. I used to fear Thomas, whose reputation was high, but unlike Johnston (Leyton) and Atyeo (Bristol City), who always seemed to score against us, Thomas did not cause us many problems. The following year, Scunthorpe were top of the league in January, but sold Thomas to Newcastle. The Scunthorpe fans were horrified, and blamed this for the team missing out on promotion. I think we can appreciate how they felt.
The other remarkable player was Jack Brownsword, the left back. An ex-miner, he played 783 games for Scunthorpe, but was no routine stalwart defender; he ran the 100 yards in 10.3 seconds, and scored 52 penalties. A great professional.
United took the lead after 44 minutes, but let in an equaliser with 5 minutes to go. I don’t remember the goals, and can’t find a report of the match, but I do remember on the return journey the feeling of disappointment and concern that promotion was not yet assured. If you look at the league table in the programme and the results I added from that day, you will see that almost all our rivals made up ground on us that day. Having thought that we were on our way to promotion, it was back to concern that we were going to be pipped at the post.
But those thoughts soon faded: the 6th Round of the Cup awaited us next week.

 

[Summers & Pace]

Feb 22, 1961: Lincoln 0-5 United
Attendance: 5263

This is the re-arranged match from the previous Saturday when United were playing the Cup match v Blackburn. It was a Wednesday afternoon kick-off, as Lincoln had no floodlights, and the programme makes it clear that times were hard for them. They were bottom of the league, no money, and just about to experience their heaviest defeat of the season.
I know I did not get to the game. I have no idea who wrote some of the notes (in blue)
in the programme, and even if it had been half term, it would have made no difference, as half term then was Friday and Monday off, and Tuesday if it was after Speech Day when the distinguished guest ‘asked’ the Headteacher if we could have an extra day off as a reward for our hard work. As if the staff would be upset to have a day off...
Anyway, it was a pity to have missed the game, as the report makes clear it was a good performance, with the forwards in particular taking advantage of the gulf in class. The return of Kettleborough from injury provided the context for the announcement in the Blackburn programme that Hamilton had been transfer-listed. We still had the problem of Mason, reserve left-back, playing on the right-wing, but he had done amazingly well, and reinforcements were soon to arrive. Interestingly, the programme notes say Mason was equally at home at full-back or wing-half, yet here he was playing regularly on the right-wing. Strange times!
Another relatively local game, at Scunthorpe, was next up, 3 days later.
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The only time I have seen KK in a No10 shirt. Let me off Silent, if I’m wrong, it is 60 years ago!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The only time I have seen KK in a No10 shirt. Let me off Silent, if I’m wrong, it is 60 years ago!

A quick glance at the programmes for the rest of the season shows Russell playing no. 8 and Kettleborough no. 10. On the pitch did they often swap positions?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The only time I have seen KK in a No10 shirt. Let me off Silent, if I’m wrong, it is 60 years ago!

Bit more detail - by the Leeds match away (coming up in a few weeks), Hodgson played 10 and KK 8, but then he went missing again, I presume injured.

 

[Silent Blade]

Bit more detail - by the Leeds match away (coming up in a few weeks),

The day my parents got married at Ecclesfield church

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The day my parents got married at Ecclesfield church

An excellent day all round, then... except your dad missed a good win and an outstanding debut (as I am sure you know).

 

[Summers & Pace]

Bit more detail - by the Leeds match away (coming up in a few weeks), Hodgson played 10 and KK 8, but then he went missing again, I presume injured.

I suppose as you get older you have set ideas in your mind, and it’s hard to change them, even though their bollocks.
I always associated KK as a number 8, and would have sworn blind that he never wore 10.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I suppose as you get older you have set ideas in your mind, and it’s hard to change them, even though their bollocks.
I always associated KK as a number 8, and would have sworn blind that he never wore 10.

For the later part of 60-61, it seems to depend on who the other inside-forward was. Hodgson got the number 10 shirt, Russell the number 8. Perhaps first choice for those longest at the Lane. If it makes you feel better about your memory, I remembered none of this, but I have the old programmes and scrapbooks to hand at the moment.

 

[ancientblade]

Bit more detail - by the Leeds match away (coming up in a few weeks), Hodgson played 10 and KK 8, but then he went missing again, I presume injured.

ah yes the old inside right and inside left positions football was so much simpler in those days lol

 

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FA Cup, 6th Round
March 4, 1961: Newcastle 1-3 Utd
Attendance: 54640

I still look back on this day as probably the closest to perfection in my life as a Unitedite. It was a combination of many things.
1. I was 13, football was what I lived for,
and United were a huge part of that.
2. The Cup was the glamour competition
at the time, and this was the 4th season
in a row that we had made it to at least
Round 5, a remarkable achievement for
a second division team.
3. In those years we had been drawn away
at Arsenal, Spurs and Everton, and
triumphed over each of these big clubs.
4. Newcastle had won the Cup in 1951,
1952 and 1955. I had watched live on
neighbour’s tv the 1955 Final, so
although they were near the
bottom of the league, they were a
legendary club in my eyes.
5. United were so good in the Cup that
I was dreaming of a Wembley Cup
Final. Unfortunately, 60 years later I
am still dreaming.
6. Newcastle fans had legendary status.
I was looking forward to the battle of 2
mutually incomprehensible songs -
Blaydon Races and Ilkla Moor. It ended
up a one-sided victory for Yorkshire.
7. We were 3-0 up inside 20 minutes, and
completely outclassed our opponents.
8. On a trip to Newcastle there were
opportunities for bits of train
spotting.

The day began at the Midland Station, which was full of noise and red-and-white. United will have had a third of the tickets in a crowd of over 54000, so there were several football specials setting off in a short space of time. We had tickets for the Gallowgate End (no segregation then), directly behind the goal, and everywhere in the ground there were large numbers of Blades, in good voice. Despite what the programme said, and to our astonishment, United came out wearing tangerine shirts, looking for all the world like another legendary Cup team, Blackpool. United made one enforced change: instead of reserve left-back Mason on the right-wing, we had reserve inside-left Hodgson on the right-wing.
United kicked towards us, on the Gallowgate End. And immediately all the action was in the penalty area in front of us, with what seemed like an endless sequence of crosses from Simpson on the left not dealt with by defenders, returned into the middle by Hodgson on the right, and total chaos as Pace and Russell threatened to run riot. In the event, only Russell did run riot, scoring a hat-trick in less than 20 minutes. A few youngsters ran on the pitch to celebrate the goals. My dad, who worked on Saturday mornings and couldn’t get to away games, said he nearly fell off the settee at home watching Grandstand on tv, when they announced the score after 20 minutes, though they did say they were trying to check it was accurate as it seemed so unlikely. It took them a while to confirm. In the ground it took no time for the Blades to start singing, and every side of the ground echoed to the sound of Ilkla Moor for the remaining 70 minutes.
By half-time we could have been 5 up, and though we sat back more in the second half, the result was never in doubt, and it came as a surprise when Newcastle scored a goal with 8 minutes to go. And we were through to a semi-final for the first time since 1936; curiously, we were the only team through, as the other 3 matches were all drawn. This included a 0-0 draw between Wednesday and Burnley, and Wednesday lost the replay at Turf Moor. That was yet another cause for celebration, though it turned a bit sour the following year, as Burnley beat us in Round 6.
The return journey passed in a blur of excited chatter and singing, and the programme for the next game (a vital top-of-the-league clash with Ipswich 3 days later) was all about the Newcastle game, with lots of comment on the support for the Blades. I took great pride in that. And spent time cutting out reports and pictures for the scrapbook- I have more pages for this game than for any other. Pictures of the indifferent programme, and from the scrapbook, follow in the next post. Enjoy!