Statistics 6 Years of SUFC Transfers

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Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head

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I think most people on this forum agree that the transfers made by the club since we came into our inital Premier Leage money in 2019 has left a lot to be desired. I thought it was interesting to review our perfromance here using two simple metrics

Transfer Rating

I ranked all permanent and loans based on their impact to the squad. The rankings are Poor, Acceptable and Great.

Some players were brought in as cover for example, so I've tried to rate them based on the expectation from them rather than pure minutes/goals/assists etc.

In my review, I've also included 'Value for Money'. I expect different levels from a player if we spend £20m vs £1m. A good example here is Mcburnie - if we had paid £5m for him he would have been under 'Acceptable Transfer' but at £17m this puts him into Poor.

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I would expect a 25/50/25 ratio for most succesful clubs. I think in the 3 years prior to this when Wilder first came in, we would have definitely hit that target (Flecks, Norwoods, Egans etc) but since the first Promotion we are some way off that.


Profit and Loss on Transfers

I also ranked each permanent transfer based on if we actually made a profit, a loss, or covered our costs for the fee paid. For those still at the club I made an assumption on realistically what will happen - E.G Chong will be a Loss. Free transfers who I also expect to eventually be released are coded as neutral as well.

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To save you going through the list below, the 3 with resale value are O'Hare (because we bought on a free), Michael Cooper (though a lot less profit than this time last year) and Anel. Some players we might have made small profits (Bogle/Trusty/Ramsdale) but as no actualy figures were transparently reported, I have called these as neutral.

Whilst no one wants to be a 'selling club' this is more about creating assets, and re-investing profit back into the club. As regularly quoted, something Brighton, Brentford and Bournmouth have all done well in recent years.

Detailed List

If anyone wants to read through all my rankings then feel free, and I am sure there are many you would rank differently, but I think that statistically it gives a good view of how recruitment has impacted the club since our first promotion.

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Great effort makes you realise some of the dross we signed don’t agree with Ben osbourne he gave everything to the cause 👍
Agreed he had a great attidue and I'd always applaud him returning to us. But £3m for a lower Champ player was again an example of poor spend.
 
hardly a surprise , we dont have much spare to buy better we have a squad budget less than what clubs pay for a single player
our record 20 m or so player , was never going to be like newcastle signing waltamardy sod
 
It's also crazy to think of how much turnover in squad we have had too. I know others have such as Leeds and Sunderland from stepping up from the Championship to the Premier League, but although "golden era of Warnock" is a phrase that isn't probably used that much, what he did create was a solid squad of regulars in the 1st team. I have picked out 7 but there are many others that have even better stats but we had players that could be available for selection for the most over a 46 game season with 4 of those the season was a few games less with one season being the Premier League but we need to get our conditioning right, although it's great to have some players with flair its only any good if they are available to play.

1) Monty not the most talented of footballers but with us for 12 years and outdid Warnock too playing 349 times - on average 29 matches per season
2) Tonge - Another mainstay for 7 years playing 262 matches- on average 37 matches per season
3) Brown - Although a shorter stay of 5 years played 147 matches - on average 29 matches per season
4) Morgan - Another mainstay in defence for 9 years also another that played on totalling 247 matches - on average 27 matches per season
5) Jags - A solid 7 years with us - 254 games - on average 36 matches per season
6) Allison - 2 years but 73 appearances - on average 36 matches per season
7) Asaba - 2 years but again a solid 67 appearances averaging 33 matches per season
 
It's also crazy to think of how much turnover in squad we have had too. I know others have such as Leeds and Sunderland from stepping up from the Championship to the Premier League, but although "golden era of Warnock" is a phrase that isn't probably used that much, what he did create was a solid squad of regulars in the 1st team. I have picked out 7 but there are many others that have even better stats but we had players that could be available for selection for the most over a 46 game season with 4 of those the season was a few games less with one season being the Premier League but we need to get our conditioning right, although it's great to have some players with flair its only any good if they are available to play.

1) Monty not the most talented of footballers but with us for 12 years and outdid Warnock too playing 349 times - on average 29 matches per season
2) Tonge - Another mainstay for 7 years playing 262 matches- on average 37 matches per season
3) Brown - Although a shorter stay of 5 years played 147 matches - on average 29 matches per season
4) Morgan - Another mainstay in defence for 9 years also another that played on totalling 247 matches - on average 27 matches per season
5) Jags - A solid 7 years with us - 254 games - on average 36 matches per season
6) Allison - 2 years but 73 appearances - on average 36 matches per season
7) Asaba - 2 years but again a solid 67 appearances averaging 33 matches per season
We had this in isolation in the 2018-19 promotion campaign with 9 players playing 40 or more games for us, and then most of those players were heavily involved the season after as well
 
Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head Love this sort of thing.

All I'd add is that we made marginal profits on Trusty (in £5m, out £6m), Vini Souza (in €8m, out €13m), Bogle (in £3m, out £7m), Traoré (in €2.5m, out €4m), Slimane (in €1m, out £1.7m) and a huge profit on Ramsdale (in £12.6m, out £24m).

Soumaré is also on loan so can't have a resale value.
 
When it's put in this way, you can see how we are where we are. A few great signings but a lot of piss poor. Like most clubs I guess, but other than the 18/19 squad it's been thin on quality. Thank God we didn't try that AI crap....ummmm
 
Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head Love this sort of thing.

All I'd add is that we made marginal profits on Trusty (in £5m, out £6m), Vini Souza (in €8m, out €13m), Bogle (in £3m, out £7m), Traoré (in €2.5m, out €4m), Slimane (in €1m, out £1.7m) and a huge profit on Ramsdale (in £12.6m, out £24m).

Soumaré is also on loan so can't have a resale value.
Glad you enjoyed it!

Both Souza and Ramsdale from my research had varied fees reported both in and out.

Ramsdale specifically apparently was £18m in (but rumours of it being offset by a sell on clause) and then the move to Arsenal was reportedly £18m with a lot of extra clauses up to £30m, which probably needed Premier League titles, Appearances etc to be met which probably weren't.
 
Glad you enjoyed it!

Both Souza and Ramsdale from my research had varied fees reported both in and out.

Ramsdale specifically apparently was £18m in (but rumours of it being offset by a sell on clause) and then the move to Arsenal was reportedly £18m with a lot of extra clauses up to £30m, which probably needed Premier League titles, Appearances etc to be met which probably weren't.
I've covered Ramsdale fee to death but effectively it was in plain sight in Bournemouth's accounts that we'd paid £12.6m for him (£16.75m less our 25% sell on clause). There were then a few variables to take the headline up by £1.75m but we, and Ramsdale, were so poor that season that none will have been triggered. We did have to pay Bournemouth 15% of the profit when we sold him to Arsenal (approximately £1m).

Arsenal originally bid £15m but were told where to go. The accepted bid was widely (Guardian, BBC) reported as £24m up front plus £6m in variables.
 
Just highlights exactly what i've been harping on about for ages. Our transfer strategy is absolutely appalling, lacking any meaningful direction and often overpriced.

We've gone this season from trying to bring in young player to profit from (I am totally for this), to spending big wages/fees bringing in absolute dross like Ings, Chong, McGuinness, Rothwell and Phillips.

Christ it's fucking depressing.

The one mainstay in that period is Bettis, the next in line is Wilder/Knill.
 
Just highlights exactly what i've been harping on about for ages. Our transfer strategy is absolutely appalling, lacking any meaningful direction and often overpriced.

We've gone this season from trying to bring in young player to profit from (I am totally for this), to spending big wages/fees bringing in absolute dross like Ings, Chong, McGuinness, Rothwell and Phillips.

Christ it's fucking depressing.

The one mainstay in that period is Bettis, the next in line is Wilder/Knill.
Its been a bit like the hokey kokey. We tried to do "the right thing" but made a huge mess of it, so reverted back to safe options
 
Interesting, and there’s no doubt it’s been poor overall, in particular last summer, but it doesn’t take into account the value of service given.

Just saying we paid £3m, got four years good service then they leave on a free, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a good transfer (just as an example).

We won’t get as much as we paid for Gus but in my eyes that was a great buy.

Likewise if we were to sell Burrows we would make a profit (I hope we don’t btw, he will improve further). Mcallum was a free and would command a fee now. Even if he leaves on a free at the end of his contract it’s still been a good buy as we’ve had years of good service.

Other deals (such as Sam Curtis and Jamal baptiste) could turn out to be good deals, or maybe not. Time will tell but are a low risk buy.

Luckily we have a good academy that produces players that we can sell for big money (or just play them) to offset the poor deals.
 
I think most people on this forum agree that the transfers made by the club since we came into our inital Premier Leage money in 2019 has left a lot to be desired. I thought it was interesting to review our perfromance here using two simple metrics

Transfer Rating

I ranked all permanent and loans based on their impact to the squad. The rankings are Poor, Acceptable and Great.

Some players were brought in as cover for example, so I've tried to rate them based on the expectation from them rather than pure minutes/goals/assists etc.

In my review, I've also included 'Value for Money'. I expect different levels from a player if we spend £20m vs £1m. A good example here is Mcburnie - if we had paid £5m for him he would have been under 'Acceptable Transfer' but at £17m this puts him into Poor.

View attachment 233060
I would expect a 25/50/25 ratio for most succesful clubs. I think in the 3 years prior to this when Wilder first came in, we would have definitely hit that target (Flecks, Norwoods, Egans etc) but since the first Promotion we are some way off that.


Profit and Loss on Transfers

I also ranked each permanent transfer based on if we actually made a profit, a loss, or covered our costs for the fee paid. For those still at the club I made an assumption on realistically what will happen - E.G Chong will be a Loss. Free transfers who I also expect to eventually be released are coded as neutral as well.

View attachment 233059

To save you going through the list below, the 3 with resale value are O'Hare (because we bought on a free), Michael Cooper (though a lot less profit than this time last year) and Anel. Some players we might have made small profits (Bogle/Trusty/Ramsdale) but as no actualy figures were transparently reported, I have called these as neutral.

Whilst no one wants to be a 'selling club' this is more about creating assets, and re-investing profit back into the club. As regularly quoted, something Brighton, Brentford and Bournmouth have all done well in recent years.

Detailed List

If anyone wants to read through all my rankings then feel free, and I am sure there are many you would rank differently, but I think that statistically it gives a good view of how recruitment has impacted the club since our first promotion.

View attachment 233061
How does this compare to most other clubs? I think fans have a blinkered view about the transfer dealings of other clubs, often have in no idea about all the failures.
 
And having now looked at the list, many of the ratings are wrong or incredibly harsh, all leaning towards a negative view. Interesting though regardless.
 



Another very poor transfer window, this January to add to the disastrous one in the summer.
When Wilder turned to Phillips and Rothwell in the last few days, it was clear all our top targets had gone or were going elsewhere.
Rangers couldn’t get rid of Rothwell quick enough, and Phillips’s only real contribution has been nearly handing Wednesday a get out of jail free card in the derby.At leat Phillips and Hoever can go back, sadly we’re saddled with Rothwell, and some of the summer signings, permanently!!!
 
With the Dross in our current squad our own players and the loans its going to take one hell of an effort just to clear them out.
Leaving around 10 first team squad players and most of those wouldn't be first team starters.
Anyone worth a few quid will be sold and luckily some of the journey men on big wages will be gone.
I don't see any challenge next season it's going to take two or three transfer windows to sort out.
Do we trust Wilder ? he is better at unearthing gems for low cost change manager and the all set up.
I do struggle to understand how we sign so many light weight unfit players.
I don't envy the owners if we don't get off to a flyer next season playing half decent football then there going to need tin hats if they ever come to a game.
 
Seriously some of those ratings are fuckin crackers mate, not sure what signings you expect at a EFL/EPL yo yo club

You’ve called Rothwell as poor but Phillips acceptable ?

You’ve called out as acceptable - Burrows cooper and Campbell, yet they were immense last year taking us to playoff final - Gus was player of year for division 😆

Mcallum before his injury this season was on fire

Saved the best till last….
you’ve rated Berge same as Mousset😆
 
Seriously some of those ratings are fuckin crackers mate, not sure what signings you expect at a EFL/EPL yo yo club

You’ve called Rothwell as poor but Phillips acceptable ?

You’ve called out as acceptable - Burrows cooper and Campbell, yet they were immense last year taking us to playoff final - Gus was player of year for division 😆

Mcallum before his injury this season was on fire

Saved the best till last….
you’ve rated Berge same as Mousset😆
Judge everyone on their contribution to the club over their entire spell. Not just because they have form periods

Burrows, Campbell and Cooper have all dropped off significantly this year. So I've judged them over 1.75 seasons with us. Good first season, poor second.

Gus was signed for 15m. He should be one of the top players in the championship. This year he's been so up and down.

Was Mcallum "on fire" or was he doing a good job as a championship left back?

And to save the best until last - Mousset won us at least 10+ points in our first season in the Prem. Berge cost 22m and I liked him as a player, but again value for money you have to question it. Mousett was terrible later in his career but felt those early games he won us gave him the "yellow" ratings.

If youre happy with what weve signed then that's your opinion, but the facts are we have spent close to 150m and have a squad value of about 20-30 maximum excluding the youth players.
 
Judge everyone on their contribution to the club over their entire spell. Not just because they have form periods

Burrows, Campbell and Cooper have all dropped off significantly this year. So I've judged them over 1.75 seasons with us. Good first season, poor second.

Gus was signed for 15m. He should be one of the top players in the championship. This year he's been so up and down.

Was Mcallum "on fire" or was he doing a good job as a championship left back?

And to save the best until last - Mousset won us at least 10+ points in our first season in the Prem. Berge cost 22m and I liked him as a player, but again value for money you have to question it. Mousett was terrible later in his career but felt those early games he won us gave him the "yellow" ratings.

If youre happy with what weve signed then that's your opinion, but the facts are we have spent close to 150m and have a squad value of about 20-30 maximum excluding the youth players.
How many points did free transfer Campbell get us last season if your mousset rating is applicable

Mousset cost us £12m no resale value,
Berge we bought for £22m sold for £12m, so they ‘cost the same’ if your judging them over their time here mousse was a bad buy, Berge was a quality player - if your unsure see careers since us

We bought some right gash mate, but to say Gus, Berge etc are only average buys is a bit harsh!
 
We are by our own design a Championship club so picking up players for that league is second nature and we are quite a place to come if you’re learning your trade as a loanee from a top premier club but when we venture above our station into the Premier league we haven’t got the players, we can’t attract the players and we can’t afford the players but to put my point across players when we have got promoted won’t look good because they’re playing in a sub standard team.
 
How many points did free transfer Campbell get us last season if your mousset rating is applicable

Mousset cost us £12m no resale value,
Berge we bought for £22m sold for £12m, so they ‘cost the same’ if your judging them over their time here mousse was a bad buy, Berge was a quality player - if your unsure see careers since us

We bought some right gash mate, but to say Gus, Berge etc are only average buys is a bit harsh!
Genuinely appreciate your view - I completely understand this is just one person's view and every fan will have a different summary of the activity we have done.

My view is Campbell across 2 seasons has been "decent". Good in first season and poor in the second season. I think we could sell him for a few million right now.

I gave Mousett the decent rating as well because he won us points that kept us in the Premier league. After he did this he was absolutely awful. I rated his transfer "red" because we lost money on him, and his performance as yellow because of his huge drop off.

Again I don't think Berge was a bad player at all. I liked him. But did he deliver 22m of value for us? Probably not. He did "as expected for the fee" which is why he got yellow and not green.
 
Genuinely appreciate your view - I completely understand this is just one person's view and every fan will have a different summary of the activity we have done.

My view is Campbell across 2 seasons has been "decent". Good in first season and poor in the second season. I think we could sell him for a few million right now.

I gave Mousett the decent rating as well because he won us points that kept us in the Premier league. After he did this he was absolutely awful. I rated his transfer "red" because we lost money on him, and his performance as yellow because of his huge drop off.

Again I don't think Berge was a bad player at all. I liked him. But did he deliver 22m of value for us? Probably not. He did "as expected for the fee" which is why he got yellow and not green.
Opinions are like arseholes, everybody’s got one!

Agree with 95% or your ratings, but what is obvs is Hoyland needs fucking off and a real scouting network putting in place

How do we get mcburnie, Mousset and Brewster, yet others get delap, joao Pedro and Dan Ballard
 

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