3-2-1-2

[A Storm of Blades]

Not the time to change what we have not practiced; and cannot.

In case we lose 4-0 instead of 3-0?

 

[AWetFlannel]

You have eyes don’t you?

Yeah, they can see the 'Premier League' bit on our shirts and I know what it means.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Yeah, they can see the 'Premier League' bit on our shirts and I know what it means.

To be clear. You’re saying that removing an attacking midfielder in favourite of a flat, deep midfield 3 doesn’t make us less potent? Also, didn’t Wilder say it’s adoption was to make us more solid? As in, less potent?

 

[AWetFlannel]

To be clear. You’re saying that removing an attacking midfielder in favourite of a flat, deep midfield 3 doesn’t make us less potent? Also, didn’t Wilder say it’s adoption was to make us more solid? As in, less potent?

I'm saying that there is no evidence for it, just like there is no evidence playing a flat 3 makes us more solid.

Both seem likely to me, but you seem to think we are 'far less potent' but no more solid.

 

[Chabuddy G]

I'm saying that there is no evidence for it, just like there is no evidence playing a flat 3 makes us more solid.

Both seem likely to me, but you seem to think we are 'far less potent' but no more solid.

Playing without a man further forward makes us less potent that much is obvious
Would it make us less solid? Possibly. But I'd like to at least find out. We didn't exactly get torn apart in the championship did we.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I'm saying that there is no evidence for it, just like there is no evidence playing a flat 3 makes us more solid.

Both seem likely to me, but you seem to think we are 'far less potent' but no more solid.

When did I say we were no more solid? We had the best defence in 2 of the last 3 seasons playing with a No 10. The flat 3 might have meant we could continue that, but given we've conceded 9 in 3 games without key defenders, I think it’s much more to do with how good our defenders are. We’re nowhere near as good going forward without it. Objectively, we put 7 past Villa last year.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Playing without a man further forward makes us less potent that much is obvious
Would it make us less solid? Possibly. But I'd like to at least find out. We didn't exactly get torn apart in the championship did we.

Almost exact opposite I think? Second best defence behind Boro? I think...

 

[AWetFlannel]

Playing without a man further forward makes us less potent that much is obvious
Would it make us less solid? Possibly. But I'd like to at least find out. We didn't exactly get torn apart in the championship did we.

Why is obvious we are less potent in a flat 3, but only possible we would be less solid without it? Surely both are equally likely to be true.

Apart from that I agree. Not much harm in trying a formation we know can work and risking being a bit more open.

 

[AWetFlannel]

When did I say we were no more solid? We had the best defence in 2 of the last 3 seasons playing with a No 10. The flat 3 might have meant we could continue that, but given we've conceded 9 in 3 games without key defenders, I think it’s much more to do with how good our defenders are. We’re nowhere near as good going forward without it. Objectively, we put 7 past Villa last year.

In the OP I replied to:

'The season has been superb, but there’s no evidence that we would have been any less solid with the No 10. We are, however far far less potent.'

It implies you think we aren't necessarily any more solid with a flat 3.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

In the OP I replied to:

'The season has been superb, but there’s no evidence that we would have been any less solid with the No 10. We are, however far far less potent.'

It implies you think we aren't necessarily any more solid with a flat 3.

That’s definitely with the realms of what I believe, yeah. As I say, evidenced by how many we’ve conceded when the first team defenders are out. Even if I concede that it might have made us a touch more solid, my view is we’re starting to pay a high price for what we sacrifice going forward. And again, our defence wasn’t suddenly made superb by a change of midfield. It’s always been top notch. Somewhat counterintuitively I actually think a CAM would have helped defensively against Man Utd. We were so flat and deep, they could press us back without even a slight hesitation that someone might be behind them. We simply had no outlet to get out.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

You're shit at counting.

 

[SittingontheBall]

All the proponents of an attacking midfielder are presumably assuming that our defensive solidity comes from the defence not the flat three midfield. Fair enough.
What is it that allows our overlapping centre backs and the wing backs to get forward IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, not the Championship, not League One, The Premier League.....could it be the flat midfield?
Do you really want to sacrifice the defenders joining in the attacks on both sides of the pitch in order to play one attacking midfielder?
If not I’m sure the two midfielders covering for the marauding defenders will be thrilled.......and seriously exposed.
Three poor performances by the whole team trying and failing to play well a system they are well trained in but replace it with something that mostly worked in the Championship and League One?
Not for me thank you but maybe Chris will be listening to you and think differently.

 

[Mumbo]

All the proponents of an attacking midfielder are presumably assuming that our defensive solidity comes from the defence not the flat three midfield. Fair enough.
What is it that allows our overlapping centre backs and the wing backs to get forward IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, not the Championship, not League One, The Premier League.....could it be the flat midfield?
Do you really want to sacrifice the defenders joining in the attacks on both sides of the pitch in order to play one attacking midfielder?
If not I’m sure the two midfielders covering for the marauding defenders will be thrilled.......and seriously exposed.
Three poor performances by the whole team trying and failing to play well a system they are well trained in but replace it with something that mostly worked in the Championship and League One?
Not for me thank you but maybe Chris will be listening to you and think differently.

We’ve had one good chance (header)that sharp created for himself with his own cross,in 3 games.
Our ponderous progress down the flank(s) mostly the right is sometimes painful to watch and the final predictable ball has been mostly cut out and usually results in a corner when it’s not cut out the opposition defence has packed the area in readiness for it 10 minutes previous the result is no chances created.
We’ve become too easy to deal with and too predictable.
Formations and tactics can be changed in an instant by Wilder and with 5 subs allowed we don’t have to be so dogmatic in our approach.
I think wilder will mix it up in the coming games.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

All the proponents of an attacking midfielder are presumably assuming that our defensive solidity comes from the defence not the flat three midfield. Fair enough.
What is it that allows our overlapping centre backs and the wing backs to get forward IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, not the Championship, not League One, The Premier League.....could it be the flat midfield?
Do you really want to sacrifice the defenders joining in the attacks on both sides of the pitch in order to play one attacking midfielder?
If not I’m sure the two midfielders covering for the marauding defenders will be thrilled.......and seriously exposed.
Three poor performances by the whole team trying and failing to play well a system they are well trained in but replace it with something that mostly worked in the Championship and League One?
Not for me thank you but maybe Chris will be listening to you and think differently.

All you’ve done here, is taken something as absolute which is infact far from, then ask me to justify the negative aspect of something I don’t believe to be true. We aren’t Norwich, the flat 3 wasn’t needed to clearly correct a wonky defence. Our defence was magnificent whilst deploying the 10 role. Yes, the Premier League is clearly a huge step up, but so - apparently - was the Championship from League One.

The acid test for the flat 3 making us more solid surely was when we had first team defenders out. The cover it was supposed to provide, justifying a reduced attacking presence, to cover a weakened defence, failed miserably.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

We’ve had one good chance (header)that sharp created for himself with his own cross,in 3 games.
Our ponderous progress down the flank(s) mostly the right is sometimes painful to watch and the final predictable ball has been mostly cut out and usually results in a corner when it’s not cut out the opposition defence has packed the area in readiness for it 10 minutes previous the result is no chances created.
We’ve become too easy to deal with and too predictable.
Formations and tactics can be changed in an instant by Wilder and with 5 subs allowed we don’t have to be so dogmatic in our approach.
I think wilder will mix it up in the coming games.

Dogmatic is a great term to describe it. I hope you’re right.