2024/2025 Squad Planning

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jt64 said:
A well run club would have a coherent structured department dedicated to scouting and recruitment that is run completely independently of the first team coaching staff. At Sheffield United, fuck knows.
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So you want us signing players without the managers approval? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
 

Fjortoft's Aeroplane said:
So you want us signing players without the managers approval? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
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Absolutely. The concept of a "manager" is outdated. Being effective head of coaching and doing everything to improve the current players and prepare for games is more than a full time job and a completely different skillset to identifying incoming players, and I certainly don't want the first team coach to have their own best interests (i.e. retaining their job) to influence transfer decisions. Given the context of a typical player contract being 3+ years, there being only ten managers in the entire league that have been in their current role over 3 years, and more than a third of the league having changed managers since we appointed Wilder, there will be a natural tendency for a manager to want players coming in to do the most for the first XI right now, which is the complete opposite of what is best for the football club in the medium to long term.
 
mattbianco1 said:
Yes you're right. I'd totally forgotten about the dreadful form United were in prior to him being dropped in March.

Just the 20 Wins and 7 draws from 36 Games he'd featured in before he was dropped.
We were in the lowly position of 2nd in the table

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Doyle coming in helped see us over the line, i'm not debating that. But people singling out Norwood for the form in Feb and March is unfair
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But now he is 2 years slower and will be absolutely depleted on confidence.
 
jt64 said:
A squad rebuild is not a job for a "manager" regardless of the length of their contract
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With the exception of Klopp, Pep and maybe Arteta - that's how it works at most other clubs in 2024. We're the outliers here, we really are ..
 
jt64 said:
Absolutely. The concept of a "manager" is outdated. Being effective head of coaching and doing everything to improve the current players and prepare for games is more than a full time job and a completely different skillset to identifying incoming players, and I certainly don't want the first team coach to have their own best interests (i.e. retaining their job) to influence transfer decisions. Given the context of a typical player contract being 3+ years, there being only ten managers in the entire league that have been in their current role over 3 years, and more than a third of the league having changed managers since we appointed Wilder, there will be a natural tendency for a manager to want players coming in to do the most for the first XI right now, which is the complete opposite of what is best for the football club in the medium to long term.
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Well you always need a balance. Perhaps you can have a medium-long term recruitment specialist but still give the manager the reigns when he needs to make immediate recruitment for the first team.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
With the exception of Klopp, Pep and maybe Arteta - that's how it works at most other clubs in 2024. We're the outliers here, we really are ..
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It's not. United are the only PL club with a manager rather than a head coach 🤷

Which other manager do you believe has final say on transfers?
 
Fjortoft's Aeroplane said:
Well you always need a balance. Perhaps you can have a medium-long term recruitment specialist but still give the manager the reigns when he needs to make immediate recruitment for the first team.
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If your recruitment department is unable to do something as simple as "hmm, Lowe has just got injured, RND is still injured, maybe we should look at loaning a left back in" without handholding from the coaching department, then it's not fit for purpose
 
There's no doubt that a massive rebuild is required, but how do we go tactically next season. Could we see a return of over lapping CBs for the Championship? It only stopped working in the 2nd prem season mainly down to JOC being a long term injury and then Prem teams sussing it out.

I reall do think that until we return to the Prem then we should revert back to the system that got us so much possesion and joy.

New players are needed so what are your thoughts?
 

SUFC Guy said:
There's no doubt that a massive rebuild is required, but how do we go tactically next season. Could we see a return of over lapping CBs for the Championship? It only stopped working in the 2nd prem season mainly down to JOC being a long term injury and then Prem teams sussing it out.

I reall do think that until we return to the Prem then we should revert back to the system that got us so much possesion and joy.

New players are needed so what are your thoughts?
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The epitome of the narrative around 'overlapping CBs' was the physical mis matches it created. The real reason it stopped working as a tactic wasnt JOC getting injured, it was the rest of our side not being the fittest, most energetic side out there...

Returning to having that as objective number one would be my present. The over-riding takeaway from Monday was that Arsenal were built all 6ft 2in Olympic decathletes. By contrast we were built like an episode of Dad's Army...
 
We are expert can-kickers and no doubt we will find a way to do just that, and it may not be a bad thing.

The fact is that signing new players costs more than retaining current players so those expecting a mass change of personnel may we find themselves disappointed.

We do need some questions answered between now and the end of the season. Barring some miracle we will be in the Championship.

1. Can Grbic emerge to be undisputed no 1? If not then we need someone to challenge him. The only realistic ones I see are Rodak, Schmeichel and Karius. The latter will want too much money. I can't see Wes staying or Davies. Amissah will depend on who is emerging in the youths but it feels like another keeper will be needed. Maybe Christian Walton as a back up if we aren't going for a straight fight? Or we enter the loan market like Wilder did before; too early to say who would be available.

2. What is our plan for the right backs on the books? Baldock is the best defensively. Bogle is better offensively. But then we have Seriki and Sachdev. Are they still not near the team at all? Then what of Sam Curtis? I don't see us buying another here. Yes Tete, Coufal are out of contract but unrealistic and are Aina, already 31-year old Aurier or McNamara of Millwall going to be preferable? I doubt 32-year old Clyne would be considered. If anything we will reshuffle from within if we want a more streamlined or cheaper options. Otherwise, at that level, both should be able to contribute. If we went up, another story, perhaps but in terms of can kicking, Bogle and Baldock are very good Championship options.

3. Left back seems the one obvious area for recruitment. Buyabu and Boyes are quite junior. Maybe one emerges as back up. But first choice Lowe is frequently injured and I doubt we will regret releasing him in favour of someone more robust. Norrington-Davies has serious injuries and retaining him is a tough choice. Larouci is too poor defensively and as much as I'd use Osborn this season, and consider him as a squad player next season when all the signings of others is complete, we need a reliable first choice left back. Out of contract players - Barisic (Rangers), Giannoulis (Norwich), Taylor (Burnley). There also seems to be a player called Harrison Burrows at Peterborough racking up good numbers though he has an option.

4. Centre Backs I think we will struggle to get better than Egan on a free. Basham you have to think will go with our best wishes. It would probably make sense to be in for Paddy McNair. Perhaps he replaces Anel too with Curtis being considered as a Bash replacement? Nathan Wood is out of contract at Swansea but club has an option. Vestergaard is out of contract and would be a decent Egan replacement but he will be 32. You're then down to arch nemesis Jake Cooper of Millwall, Cedric Kipre at West Brom and Jimmy Dunne at QPR. For me you just keep Egan.

5. Midfield needs a bit of thought. I'd like to think we can blood Arblaster, Brooks and Peck next year but it would be bold to over-rely on these. I'd say we need 3, probably 4 senior players to join them. Davies I'd imagine will be one. Then it is a question of whether someone comes for Souza or Hamer. I can well imagine Wilder just getting rid of Slimane to be honest as well as Coulibaly. Quite possibly he'll also lose Souza. Hamer I think will be stuck with us; he isn't a 24 year old. Then I think he might have to weigh up Norwood and Osborn's futures vs other free agents. Out of contract players - Brownhill (Burnley), Ndidi, Praet (Leicester, possibly out of reach financially), DaSilva (Brentford but injured most of season). I think Will Hughes will manage to stay in the top division. Sam Field is a good age and build at QPR and Wilder had Mowett on loan from WBA when at Boro. Alan Browne out of contract also at Preston though I thought I read he fancied the US somewhere. Callum O'Hare ins an obvious one and also Herbie Kane at Barnsley is putting together good numbers. So a lot would depend on who fancies joining there and would determine Norwood and Osborn.

6. Attack is going to require some hard calls. We kind of expect Jebbo to remain and Osula to keep developing. I can well imagine Traore being offloaded. Archer will go back to Villa. The million dollar question is do you keep McBurnie? again what are the alternatives? I'm not sure Adams, Iheanacho or Batshuayi are realistic for a relegated team. Chris Wood could be a valid alternative for me though is a little older. I can well imagine though Wilder will keep McBurnie and expect Osula and Jebbo to pick up his games when he's not fit, rather also than wave away his original 20m investment. Brewster will be here and anything out of him is a bonus. It does leave room for one more. Maybe this is where your loans have to come in. I can see Dolan at Blackburn maybe could be fashioned into a number 10 but they have an option. Perhaps this makes Wilder reconsider Traore but he's very small.

Lots to do, that's for sure but I can still see a fair few remaining if we can't source affordable replacements though we could have anywhere between 2-4 loans filling gaps and at this stage they are difficult to guess.
 
Champagneblade said:
We are expert can-kickers and no doubt we will find a way to do just that, and it may not be a bad thing.

The fact is that signing new players costs more than retaining current players so those expecting a mass change of personnel may we find themselves disappointed.

We do need some questions answered between now and the end of the season. Barring some miracle we will be in the Championship.

1. Can Grbic emerge to be undisputed no 1? If not then we need someone to challenge him. The only realistic ones I see are Rodak, Schmeichel and Karius. The latter will want too much money. I can't see Wes staying or Davies. Amissah will depend on who is emerging in the youths but it feels like another keeper will be needed. Maybe Christian Walton as a back up if we aren't going for a straight fight? Or we enter the loan market like Wilder did before; too early to say who would be available.

2. What is our plan for the right backs on the books? Baldock is the best defensively. Bogle is better offensively. But then we have Seriki and Sachdev. Are they still not near the team at all? Then what of Sam Curtis? I don't see us buying another here. Yes Tete, Coufal are out of contract but unrealistic and are Aina, already 31-year old Aurier or McNamara of Millwall going to be preferable? I doubt 32-year old Clyne would be considered. If anything we will reshuffle from within if we want a more streamlined or cheaper options. Otherwise, at that level, both should be able to contribute. If we went up, another story, perhaps but in terms of can kicking, Bogle and Baldock are very good Championship options.

3. Left back seems the one obvious area for recruitment. Buyabu and Boyes are quite junior. Maybe one emerges as back up. But first choice Lowe is frequently injured and I doubt we will regret releasing him in favour of someone more robust. Norrington-Davies has serious injuries and retaining him is a tough choice. Larouci is too poor defensively and as much as I'd use Osborn this season, and consider him as a squad player next season when all the signings of others is complete, we need a reliable first choice left back. Out of contract players - Barisic (Rangers), Giannoulis (Norwich), Taylor (Burnley). There also seems to be a player called Harrison Burrows at Peterborough racking up good numbers though he has an option.

4. Centre Backs I think we will struggle to get better than Egan on a free. Basham you have to think will go with our best wishes. It would probably make sense to be in for Paddy McNair. Perhaps he replaces Anel too with Curtis being considered as a Bash replacement? Nathan Wood is out of contract at Swansea but club has an option. Vestergaard is out of contract and would be a decent Egan replacement but he will be 32. You're then down to arch nemesis Jake Cooper of Millwall, Cedric Kipre at West Brom and Jimmy Dunne at QPR. For me you just keep Egan.

5. Midfield needs a bit of thought. I'd like to think we can blood Arblaster, Brooks and Peck next year but it would be bold to over-rely on these. I'd say we need 3, probably 4 senior players to join them. Davies I'd imagine will be one. Then it is a question of whether someone comes for Souza or Hamer. I can well imagine Wilder just getting rid of Slimane to be honest as well as Coulibaly. Quite possibly he'll also lose Souza. Hamer I think will be stuck with us; he isn't a 24 year old. Then I think he might have to weigh up Norwood and Osborn's futures vs other free agents. Out of contract players - Brownhill (Burnley), Ndidi, Praet (Leicester, possibly out of reach financially), DaSilva (Brentford but injured most of season). I think Will Hughes will manage to stay in the top division. Sam Field is a good age and build at QPR and Wilder had Mowett on loan from WBA when at Boro. Alan Browne out of contract also at Preston though I thought I read he fancied the US somewhere. Callum O'Hare ins an obvious one and also Herbie Kane at Barnsley is putting together good numbers. So a lot would depend on who fancies joining there and would determine Norwood and Osborn.

6. Attack is going to require some hard calls. We kind of expect Jebbo to remain and Osula to keep developing. I can well imagine Traore being offloaded. Archer will go back to Villa. The million dollar question is do you keep McBurnie? again what are the alternatives? I'm not sure Adams, Iheanacho or Batshuayi are realistic for a relegated team. Chris Wood could be a valid alternative for me though is a little older. I can well imagine though Wilder will keep McBurnie and expect Osula and Jebbo to pick up his games when he's not fit, rather also than wave away his original 20m investment. Brewster will be here and anything out of him is a bonus. It does leave room for one more. Maybe this is where your loans have to come in. I can see Dolan at Blackburn maybe could be fashioned into a number 10 but they have an option. Perhaps this makes Wilder reconsider Traore but he's very small.

Lots to do, that's for sure but I can still see a fair few remaining if we can't source affordable replacements though we could have anywhere between 2-4 loans filling gaps and at this stage they are difficult to guess.
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I’ll have a work through some of this.

1. I do think Grbić will be the number one even if he’s not much of an improvement on Wes. Purely because he cost £2m (rumour) and can imagine us on substantial wages. If he’s good enough then that’s great if he’s not I still don’t see us signing another proper second choice goalkeeper. Unless we loan someone who’s miles ahead of him. Hendo has lost his place for Palace would have been a good one but think it must be way out of our reach.

2. I would keep Baldock personally but I’m not so sure we will. Rumours he’s European bound so would need another full back. Saw Curtis play in the u21 on YouTube. He looked like you’d expect a good 18 year old prospect. But I would say he’s 3/4 years away from being a championship full back that could play 20 or so games for a promotion chasing side. Look at the teams in the playoffs there’s no 18 year old wonder kids there mainly seasoned pros who cost a lot of money.

3. Is an urgent position of need for us. RND I would keep and potentially Osborne to cover everywhere. But it must be a priority I would love Charlie Taylor but will Burnley keep him? I would expect so. But needs to be a good one as he needs to be a starter looking to play 40 games.

4. I would go for more for pace with centre halves than Egan. Wood would be a good shout for sure. In the Championship you can press people really high as they try to play football so have to be wary over the top. Anel is no slouch and Trusty is very quick. Think be better going for someone younger with pace. Callum Doyle looked decent when I’ve seen him. Other options are Coady to be central in a 3 but brings leadership and calmness but no pace.

5. I like most of the suggestions. COH would be my number one. I like Brownhill too, Wilder always seemed to be linked to Lewis O’Brien would be another.

6. Need loans for strikers. Diallo / Jay Stansfield / Archer etc depends on formation we play if we go wingers or just 2 central strikers. I think Archer would be ideal as he would score in thag division as we would give him a lot of chances.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
I'm sorry, i can't take seriously anyone who's watched us over the past 12 months and thinks McBurnie and Bogle warrant new deals...
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Bogle seemed to have improved his defending but has gone backwards again.

I think for quite a few fans it's not that they're desperate for them to re-sign. It's more that despite regular lay offs they've contributed notably in the Champ and they're not confident of replacing them with anyone as good.
 
Champagne , its nice to see someone put a valid point about our predicament and one i thought was just about right. Rather than just spout bollox about get rid of so and so and bring in so and so.anyway stop with all this thoughhtful stuff it doesnt fit with the negative stuff
 
Bladezz said:
I’ll have a work through some of this.

1. I do think Grbić will be the number one even if he’s not much of an improvement on Wes. Purely because he cost £2m (rumour) and can imagine us on substantial wages. If he’s good enough then that’s great if he’s not I still don’t see us signing another proper second choice goalkeeper. Unless we loan someone who’s miles ahead of him. Hendo has lost his place for Palace would have been a good one but think it must be way out of our reach.

2. I would keep Baldock personally but I’m not so sure we will. Rumours he’s European bound so would need another full back. Saw Curtis play in the u21 on YouTube. He looked like you’d expect a good 18 year old prospect. But I would say he’s 3/4 years away from being a championship full back that could play 20 or so games for a promotion chasing side. Look at the teams in the playoffs there’s no 18 year old wonder kids there mainly seasoned pros who cost a lot of money.

3. Is an urgent position of need for us. RND I would keep and potentially Osborne to cover everywhere. But it must be a priority I would love Charlie Taylor but will Burnley keep him? I would expect so. But needs to be a good one as he needs to be a starter looking to play 40 games.

4. I would go for more for pace with centre halves than Egan. Wood would be a good shout for sure. In the Championship you can press people really high as they try to play football so have to be wary over the top. Anel is no slouch and Trusty is very quick. Think be better going for someone younger with pace. Callum Doyle looked decent when I’ve seen him. Other options are Coady to be central in a 3 but brings leadership and calmness but no pace.

5. I like most of the suggestions. COH would be my number one. I like Brownhill too, Wilder always seemed to be linked to Lewis O’Brien would be another.

6. Need loans for strikers. Diallo / Jay Stansfield / Archer etc depends on formation we play if we go wingers or just 2 central strikers. I think Archer would be ideal as he would score in thag division as we would give him a lot of chances.
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Trusty very quick ? seriously.
 
I think who we re-sign depends on the budget available to replace those who are leaving.

Hecky was keen to keep Sharp and Stevens last season, presumably because he knew that the alternative was the likes of Traore and Thomas.

Clearly keeping Stevens and Sharp would have been stupid, but no more stupid than committing resources to absolutely terrible players like those mentioned above.

At the moment I’d like us to keep Egan, Baldock and Osborn. I also think Wes is better than Grbic, so unless we’re getting a new keeper we may as well extend Wes and play him. It will be a shame to see Norwood go but his time with us is over. Basham the same, I’ll shed a tear when his leaving becomes official.

The rest of them I’m really not fussed if they leave.

If we have a tiny wage budget and won’t pay transfer fees for replacements then it’s a different conversation.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
The epitome of the narrative around 'overlapping CBs' was the physical mis matches it created. The real reason it stopped working as a tactic wasnt JOC getting injured, it was the rest of our side not being the fittest, most energetic side out there...

Returning to having that as objective number one would be my present. The over-riding takeaway from Monday was that Arsenal were built all 6ft 2in Olympic decathletes. By contrast we were built like an episode of Dad's Army...
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That's true mate, but I can't see why it wouldn't work again in the Championship.
 
SUFC Guy said:
That's true mate, but I can't see why it wouldn't work again in the Championship.
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Besides us having to recruit at least 7 new players and completely overhaul our strength & conditioning department - you're right...

Would also mean we'd have to recruit with a strategic mindset as opposed to the knee jerk, panic buying of the last 7 or 8 windows....
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Besides us having to recruit at least 7 new players and completely overhaul our strength & conditioning department - you're right...

Would also mean we'd have to recruit with a strategic mindset as opposed to the knee jerk, panic buying of the last 7 or 8 windows....
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Very true. A lot of hard work to be done over the summer. With the release if Mitchell, it looks like that work has already started.
 
I'd very much like us to replace Trusty, although I expect he'd be competent at that level. I'd take any half decent LCB over him. We could ask Watford about Wesley Hoedt, maybe send Trusty their way. He seems like a very strong CB at that level, shows up well statistically and is their captain. Wilder worked with him in his spell there, so maybe he'll be interested

If not him there are some other established names on frees like Ben Gibson, Jake Cooper and Murray Wallace. Wallace being the best fit for our old LCB role

Other CBs I could see Wilder going for are McNair, Coady and Charlie Cresswell

Vestergaard would be a very good one if that's possible
 
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Bladezz said:
I’ll have a work through some of this.

1. I do think Grbić will be the number one even if he’s not much of an improvement on Wes. Purely because he cost £2m (rumour) and can imagine us on substantial wages. If he’s good enough then that’s great if he’s not I still don’t see us signing another proper second choice goalkeeper. Unless we loan someone who’s miles ahead of him. Hendo has lost his place for Palace would have been a good one but think it must be way out of our reach.

2. I would keep Baldock personally but I’m not so sure we will. Rumours he’s European bound so would need another full back. Saw Curtis play in the u21 on YouTube. He looked like you’d expect a good 18 year old prospect. But I would say he’s 3/4 years away from being a championship full back that could play 20 or so games for a promotion chasing side. Look at the teams in the playoffs there’s no 18 year old wonder kids there mainly seasoned pros who cost a lot of money.

3. Is an urgent position of need for us. RND I would keep and potentially Osborne to cover everywhere. But it must be a priority I would love Charlie Taylor but will Burnley keep him? I would expect so. But needs to be a good one as he needs to be a starter looking to play 40 games.

4. I would go for more for pace with centre halves than Egan. Wood would be a good shout for sure. In the Championship you can press people really high as they try to play football so have to be wary over the top. Anel is no slouch and Trusty is very quick. Think be better going for someone younger with pace. Callum Doyle looked decent when I’ve seen him. Other options are Coady to be central in a 3 but brings leadership and calmness but no pace.

5. I like most of the suggestions. COH would be my number one. I like Brownhill too, Wilder always seemed to be linked to Lewis O’Brien would be another.

6. Need loans for strikers. Diallo / Jay Stansfield / Archer etc depends on formation we play if we go wingers or just 2 central strikers. I think Archer would be ideal as he would score in thag division as we would give him a lot of chances.
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Leeds have a shit load of u23’s in their first team, Ipswich do as well.
 
Gin&Juice said:
Leeds have a shit load of u23’s in their first team, Ipswich do as well.
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Okay let’s start with Leeds.

Archie Gray is from there academy….

Who else have I missed? The rest were all bought. Watching the pigs now so it’s on don’t understand your argument here?
 
New deals for Baldock, his age and experience is what we need, especially with the young kids in this position. Ideally you want someone for at least the first half of next season, then for them to be competing for the role and next season for him to be a solid backup while others step up. All the above still works even if we aren’t promoted at the first attempt. I’d also consider making his Captain for next season.

Egan depends on his fitness and prognosis. If fit he’s important for all the same reasons as Baldock but he shouldn’t be a starter for the following season if we’ve recruited correctly in either this summer or next.

RND/Lowe, it would need to be a no for me. Neither are good enough for where we want to be.
I’d also be tempted to see if one of the promising RBs could be tried or a long term replacement sought. Baldock could also cover in the Championship if one of the RB emerges earlier than expected.

Bogle I’d offer a deal, but mainly to play in midfield. We won’t get a better option for the outlay and he’d make a solid championship player on the right side of a midfield three, right in a four or even right in a front three. He’s basically Osborn but on the right.

Creative and Forward loans are a must. I just hope we look at loans to buy this time should we be successful for the young PL castoffs.
 
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Hamandcheese said:
I'd very much like us to replace Trusty, although I expect he'd be competent at that level. I'd take any half decent LCB over him. We could ask Watford about Wesley Hoedt, maybe send Trusty their way. He seems like a very strong CB at that level, shows up well statistically and is their captain. Wilder worked with him in his spell there, so maybe he'll be interested

If not him there are some other established names on frees like Ben Gibson, Jake Cooper and Murray Wallace. Wallace being the best fit for our old LCB role

Other CBs I could see Wilder going for are McNair, Coady and Charlie Cresswell

Vestergaard would be a very good one if that's possible
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Any of the following centerbacks we should be looking at in no particular order, to add with egan, anel, robbo, Trusty.

Cedric Kipre - 27 end of contract West Brom, averaging over 7 rating.

Nathan Wood - 21 end of contract Swansea, plays left side, could develop further, played 66 games for them already.

Vestergaard* - 31 end of contract, good player, probably out of our price range. And lower prem team.

Paddy McNair - 28 end of contract, plenty experience in championship can play few positions.

Jimmy dunne - 26 end of contract, dominant in the air.

* Don't think we have a chance In Vestergaard, I think Leicester will offer a new deal (if they dont have a further year option) or some other prem team will pick him up. We also would struggle to match his wages. But if we can, then he should be priority.
 
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