The Clough Factor

[PeteBlade]

Never sell a good player unless you know who's going to replace what he offers.

That's a lesson we've never learned.

To be fair though Micheal Brown played like a man desperate to get a move.

 

[PeteBlade]

I’m not sure why you think that justifies sacking a manager when he’s 317 days into the job and has had so much downsizing to do on top of having his best player sold and being poorly backed in the market just as we’re starting to show a bit of improvement.

I imagine he's found a website where the stats told him to do it.

 

[Revolution]

To be fair though Micheal Brown played like a man desperate to get a move.

He did, which he could have had a mere 5 months later. Shame we wanted the 500 grand more than a top 6 spot.

We could have lost the playoff final and made more than that...

 

[PeteBlade]

He did, which he could have had a mere 5 months later. Shame we wanted the 500 grand more than a top 6 spot.

We could have lost the playoff final and made more than that...

I think my point being that he was a liability the season after he had his wonder season.

His sending off away at burnley encapsulated this for me.

 

[BushBlade]

I think my point being that he was a liability the season after he had his wonder season.

His sending off away at burnley encapsulated this for me.

I wonder if this is in the back of McCabe's mind when other players have wanted to leave since?

 

[PeteBlade]

I wonder if this is in the back of McCabe's mind when other players have wanted to leave since?

It wouldn't surprise me to be fair, although we've sold everyone possible since to make up for it!

 

[Revolution]

I think my point being that he was a liability the season after he had his wonder season.

His sending off away at burnley encapsulated this for me.

He was worse. He was also double marked. Liability is too strong a word.

He was still better than Monty.

 

[BushBlade]

He was worse. He was also double marked. Liability is too strong a word.

He was still better than Monty.

I think that's one comment no one is going to dispute.

 

[blade too long]

I’m not sure why you think that justifies sacking a manager when he’s 317 days into the job and has had so much downsizing to do on top of having his best player sold and being poorly backed in the market just as we’re starting to show a bit of improvement.

the pressures off now, we can coast , what justifies sacking him is the fact hes failed to take us forward, miserably, after 6 games it looked possible after 26 it looked impossible

thats why hes failed

he wasnt poorly backed . he just chose to chase unavailable players, he wasted too much time on players we couldnt get

 

[1danewhitehouse]

he wasnt poorly backed .

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[PeteBlade]

the pressures off now, we can coast , what justifies sacking him is the fact hes failed to take us forward, miserably, after 6 games it looked possible after 26 it looked impossible

thats why hes failed

he wasnt poorly backed . he just chose to chase unavailable players, he wasted too much time on players we couldnt get

Keep repeating the same old shit and hope it becomes true.

Do you not have any garbage websites you could link us to?

 

[Slim Man]

I was arguing at the time that we had massively undersold Walker. I accepted Naughton was going but to lose Walker for about £3million was well was a proper kick in the bollocks

Same. It didn't take hindsight at all.

 

[Bladesman]

I was arguing at the time that we had massively undersold Walker. I accepted Naughton was going but to lose Walker for about £3million was well was a proper kick in the bollocks

Did we need to sell both of them? I think not.

 

[BushBlade]

Did we need to sell both of them? I think not.

Our shortfall from the parachute payments ending was around £8m. By selling those it meant we could retain the rest of the squad. Turned out to be a poor decision. One of many poor decisions the club made at the time.

 

[Bladesman]

Our shortfall from the parachute payments ending was around £8m. By selling those it meant we could retain the rest of the squad. Turned out to be a poor decision. One of many poor decisions the club made at the time.

Or you just sell one of them but push Spurs for more cash. Although Levy is meant to be a bit of a twat to negotiate with.

 

[BushBlade]

Or you just sell one of them but push Spurs for more cash. Although Levy is meant to be a bit of a twat to negotiate with.

Massive twat to negotiate with. He'd have just said 'bollocks then, sell Naughton to Everton for £5m and we'll take Walker when he's thrown his toys out of the pram for £1.5m, in the JTW, when you're begging us for cash'.

 

[bridgfordblade]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

 

[BushBlade]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

There's no need for a thread about Weir. Almost everyone is in agreement that he was shit. What's to discuss?

And there are plenty of threads about Adkins.

'Bitter, twisted individuals crying in their cornflakes'

'Never seen anything like it'.

Not averse to a bit of hyperbole are you?

 

[Bladesman]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

Then back down again. Even Brewers fans are questioning Clough and he hasn't even got them promoted yet.

Also we did have a huge thread about Wier on here around the time he was sacked and most agreed he was out of his depth for the job.

 

[HermitageBlade]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

I was going to post something similar, good post.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Our shortfall from the parachute payments ending was around £8m. By selling those it meant we could retain the rest of the squad. Turned out to be a poor decision. One of many poor decisions the club made at the time.

It shows how badly we fucked up with the cash thrown around under Robson that even with the West Ham money being paid in installments, Beattie, Stead, Hulse, Tonge, Gillespie, Ehiogu, Sun Jihai, Halford, Webber, Howard, Bromby, Armstrong etc. all leaving the club we still resorted to selling our two most promising youngsters to stay on an even keel and finance signings like Richard Cresswell, Mark Yeates, Nyron Nosworthy, Steve Simonsen etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

Didn’t generate himself? Murphy has been sold and we got the best part of a million quid from playing Man U. He’s also shifted loads off the wage bill either on loan or permanently with more to go in the summer.


Clough built the squad to play his way and he had what has turned out to be a good championship winger who won him the Gillingham (H), Swindon (H) and Doncaster (A) games with flashes of individual brilliance.


Adkins has inherited a massive squad that amassed 71 points last season minus


Murphy

Doyle

Holt

S. Davies

B. Davies


And moved a few others on too.


He’s on course to finish four points behind last season whilst raising £1million (net ) in transfer fees and in all likelihood reducing the wage bill whilst managing players singed to play the previous manager’s brand of football.


I’m not saying Clough is a clown. With the benefit of hindsight it seems his coaching/ getting the most out of the players wasn’t bad. What was bad was his recruitment/ squad building.


I thought Clough did an excellent job with inherited players in his first season. The wheels started to come off as he rebuilt with his own squad.


Weir didn’t cast as much of a hangover for Clough though as he didn’t build a huge overpaid squad that had to be shifted before players could be brought in.


So I’m not hammering Clough as I thought he was OK manager for us (some good, some bad) and wouldn’t have sacked him personally but I certainly Adkins has been hampered by the squad he left behind.

 

[bridgfordblade]

Adkins getting credit for Murphy? Blimey, most fans wanted him out of the door before Clough gave him back his self confidence. I'd put that one down to Clough and take the million (or was it 1.5m) off what he spent, making his figures better. Selling Murphy has basically recouped the Brayford fee.

Adkins is getting credit for pulling Man Utd out of the hat? It's not like he went on an exciting cup run beating higher division teams team right left and centre. Adkins generated the cup revenue, or he landed a plum draw and got knocked out.

I'm trying to be objective but I don't see how a squad that finished a comfortable fifth (lets face it the play offs were never in doubt last season and maybe that caused the "relaxed" approach to them) and got within 30cm of a League Cup final is "hampering" a guy so much that it warrants so much criticism.

Adkins had exactly the same "hampering" as Clough would have had this year, trim the squad, get rid of the bad eggs and sign three players to strengthen the spine of the side.

He signed (and lumbered the club with overpaid) Sammon, Edgar, Woolford, Baptiste and Hammond and even Sharpy (his best signing by miles) isn't exactly cheap as chips. Hampered? He's spent a sizeable chunk.

In my humble opinion he's done a worse job than Clough did last season, much worse.

 

[HermitageBlade]

Agree but I think the maguire money and cup runs more than covered this so called spending spree. By the time you factor in the Murphy money and what we'll inevitably flog Che for and this myth will be well and truly busted.

 

[Booker4]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

Clough gets pelted because he left us in the mess we're in and had Murphy not been there I'm fairly sure Clough would have finished with this squad where we are now or thereabouts. Also If Adkins had Murphy's services this season I'm fairly sure we would again be in the play offs. Murphy was our best player and scored over ten goals and countless assists last season and Adkins had him for one game. Clough failed to add the quality to what he inherited and brought in player after player of the same style and that's why we have the situation that Adkins inherited and its bound to lead to resentment from those left out as we've seen.

If we back Adkins this summer I'm confident of a strong squad next season. The division will be stronger though than the one about to finish which is frustrating. It was a poor league one this season but we should still be as strong as the teams that are in this league given our pulling power and Adkins experience in getting teams promoted.

 

[bridgfordblade]

Clough gets pelted because he left us in the mess we're in and had Murphy not been there I'm fairly sure Clough would have finished with this squad where we are now or thereabouts. Also If Adkins had Murphy's services this season I'm fairly sure we would again be in the play offs. Murphy was our best player and scored over ten goals and countless assists last season and Adkins had him for one game. Clough failed to add the quality to what he inherited and brought in player after player of the same style and that's why we have the situation that Adkins inherited and its bound to lead to resentment from those left out as we've seen.

If we back Adkins this summer I'm confident of a strong squad next season. The division will be stronger though than the one about to finish which is frustrating. It was a poor league one this season but we should still be as strong as the teams that are in this league given our pulling power and Adkins experience in getting teams promoted.

I've read your posts on the Burton Albion forum Booker, it's fairly clear you don't rate him and go out of your way to explain why.

It just shows me that for whatever reason, some of you have one rule for Clough and another for Adkins. I've yet to see Woodward put his dossier together about Adkins signing his mates and his cronies from a limited club scouting pool, Rewind a season and have a look at the stick dished out for signing ex Derby players.

Clough "inherited" a side and a squad that couldn't win a raffle, the quality he inherited saw the side languishing in the bottom four.

Adkins inherited "the mess" that Clough left the club in. The mess that only lost the play off semi's on goal difference and enjoyed two cup semi finals in 12 months. Adkins then added 6 very experienced quality players from higher division squads at substantial cost. Hammond, Edgar, Sharp and Woolford all being players he'd had at previous clubs.

There was none of this "give him time and he'll come good" in pre-season, every single one of you thought Adkins would gain promotion this season cos he's substantially better than Clough.

The back tracking and excuse finding is actually quite funny to see/read.

Anyone know the what the wage budget is this season compared to last? I'm keen to see how much Adkins has reduced it by.

 

[blade too long]

Keep repeating the same old shit and hope it becomes true.

Do you not have any garbage websites you could link us to?

Adkins said himself he had money , we could argue all day on the ammount , but he had some

he wasted months chasing Dan Burn , ,and some other championship players , who werent being released ,
he had no contingency to get in a back up
it cost us a tilt at the play offs, , and theres always a 1 in 4 chance no matter how many youve lost before

 

[PeteBlade]

A 15 page thread and the majority of it aimed at attempting to crucify Clough.

I'm struggling a bit here, by hammering what he's left Adkins with, are you not admitting that he over achieved with the "shit, bloated squad he left behind".

He somehow managed to get that shit bloated squad to finish fifth and to get to a semi final (again).

T'Other Nigel has taken that shit bloated squad, spent money he didn't generate himself and he's taken it backwards - minus the excitement of a cup run and never looking likely to "scrape" the play offs as Clough did.

Going from 20th to 7th in three quarters of a season was no achievement at all, any clown could have taken Weir's mess and turned it around. Weirs mess? bottom 4 and looking never like winning again.

Cloughs mess?

Clough finished 5th and he's the devil incarnate, Adkins has a full season, get's nowhere near achieving anything at all and the blame is at Cloughs door?

I've never seen anything like it, where's the 15 page thread crucifying David Weir?

Come on you Brewers,only cos it'll leave some of you bitter, twisted individuals crying in your cornflakes when he takes them up.

Got to love some of the Nigel Clough fan boys.

Completely ignore his faults, the teams performance and the poor yet expensive squad he assembled due to the carefully selected highlights.

You can't help but think his second name plays a huge part of a the dewy, hero worship.

 

[PeteBlade]

Adkins said himself he had money , we could argue all day on the ammount , but he had some

he wasted months chasing Dan Burn , ,and some other championship players , who werent being released ,
he had no contingency to get in a back up
it cost us a tilt at the play offs, , and theres always a 1 in 4 chance no matter how many youve lost before

Same old, same old.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[PeteBlade]

I've read your posts on the Burton Albion forum Booker, it's fairly clear you don't rate him and go out of your way to explain why.

It just shows me that for whatever reason, some of you have one rule for Clough and another for Adkins. I've yet to see Woodward put his dossier together about Adkins signing his mates and his cronies from a limited club scouting pool, Rewind a season and have a look at the stick dished out for signing ex Derby players.

Clough "inherited" a side and a squad that couldn't win a raffle, the quality he inherited saw the side languishing in the bottom four.

Adkins inherited "the mess" that Clough left the club in. The mess that only lost the play off semi's on goal difference and enjoyed two cup semi finals in 12 months. Adkins then added 6 very experienced quality players from higher division squads at substantial cost. Hammond, Edgar, Sharp and Woolford all being players he'd had at previous clubs.

There was none of this "give him time and he'll come good" in pre-season, every single one of you thought Adkins would gain promotion this season cos he's substantially better than Clough.

The back tracking and excuse finding is actually quite funny to see/read.

Anyone know the what the wage budget is this season compared to last? I'm keen to see how much Adkins has reduced it by.

Only lost the playoff semi final on goal difference

Wow.