The Clough Factor

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't really see the need for the type of bile directed Clough's way. He gave us a couple of memorable cup runs and at the very least deserves some good standing based on that – which includes our first goals at Wembley since Cork in 93.

He failed in the league in his first full season, made some very poor decisions on recruitment in that season, and fell out with certain individuals, which have all had repercussions on Adkins this year, but it's possible to criticise his tenure without attacking the man.

Agreed. Mixed performance from Clough when he was here as it has been with Adkins this year. Clough had the cup runs over Adkins but Adkins hasn’t lumbered us with much terrible players so far (Woolford apart- the rest are loans). Only time will tell whether Adkins can go on and do better with his own squad. There are signs of improvement. I fancy about 8 of the starting 11 from Saturday to still be here next season and they are starting to look like they want to play for him now he has got some bad apples out. Still, need to add some more quality in the summer to mount a real challenge though.

 

[blade too long]

Check out the Panama Papers thread in General chat for his latest doozy. Makes a post - facts totally wrong - and ten minutes later denies he ever said it. Then a bit later posts again - more rubbish - and uses the correct figures re the first post as if he knew what he was talking about all along. Comedy gold.

 

[PeteBlade]

team saturday
gk.. Long

• 34Edgar
• 19McEveley
• 8Coutts
• 6Basham
• 35Hammond
• 7Flynn
• 14Done
• 10Sharp
• 29Adams
• 21 Baptiste
• 
  
• long , mc evely basham flynn done and adams
• sure they played last season
• more than half the side thats doing ok now

we all knew the addition of 3 players would probably see us compete

name me any league one club that doesnt have some deadwood
I still have seen no substantiated reason given as to why Adkins didnt get in these players we needed
hes admitted some funds were there, even if it was 500k its 500k more than some got
why no punts on loans like on Coady , some free young players

just dont get it

You've changed your tune from claiming we were the leagues highest spenders.

 

[blade too long]

was quoting what some papers had put saying he was 30 k up

in fact his father got out before his legal cayman island funds in 2010 were made illegal by the tories , in the last parliament
a little heads up from sonny boy there
Cameron has benifitted to the tune of half a million in "gifts" in the past 5 years
no doubt all from offshore profit

 

[blade too long]

You've changed your tune from claiming we were the leagues highest spenders.

we are, where do I change my tune
I said even if we only had put up another 500k , in the JTW, thats on top of what we already spent

you acting thick doesnt help

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I always listen to his post match interviews, sad b****** that I am. I find Clough a fascinating, complex individual. Each week he says "we've not scored many goals all season", this week he said it's time for the players rather than always the management team to provide the lifts that are needed after a bad result, last week he thanked us with some sarcasm " Sheffield United our previous employers for doing us a favour ( v Walsall)", the edge is back in his manner and he is rattled. The rival teams have not taken advantage as yet, Bradford are the most likely now but they have come from so far behind. Walsall have lost their way with two away defeats. Gillingham don't look good enough. Burton should be alright and you're right it would be a remarkable failure if Burton don't get automatic.

That game at Bramall Lane against Burton BTW was eminently winnable if only we had played at 70% of our capability, but we didn't and 3 more points wasted.

I agree about Clough being an interesting character. I’ve been saying for a while I’m looking forward to his autobiography and reading his take on his time here. Same with Adkins. It’ll be interesting to see how they perceive the situation here.


The other two teams to go up with Wigan will be incredibly ordinary sides. It’s a real shame we didn’t cobble a decent team together to have a proper go this season.

 

[derryblade]

Don't get this fixation with NC, ultimately he failed to achieve promotion but still managed to provide us with some great days out. We all know he blew a more than decent wedge of money on players assisted by our owners. We have our own manager NA who has given us nothing this season, seriously can anybody say he shouldn't have done a lot better with this huge squad despite unrest, injuries and allegedly poor players. We are struggling to reach the 71 points we achieved last year. I am grateful for the improved performances against teams above us but taking 40 games to achieve that level of performance doesn't fill me with anymore confidence in NA for next season. The 18 players Saturday contained 6 players who are out of contract in June and 4 loans who may not be here next year, for me the jury is still out on NA promotion was the target this year and he appears to have failed by a good margin.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think we should just ignore the previous 39 games because we have played well in the last two.

I think we should just ignore the last 10 years or so of Adkins’ managerial career because he hasn’t pulled up any trees this season when inheriting a poor, injured, unfit, imbalanced, large, overpaid squad.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That Burton team was already a Clough sort of team before he arrived, yet he's still managed to well and truly fuck it up. It's great to see.

Hopefully Bradford catch them but if not it'll be enjoyable seeing them break records in the Championship next season.

People are talking like Hasselbaink had built an unassailable lead and Clough has gone on a horrendous run to throw it away. Since Hasselbaink left, Burton’s results look like this


Won- 10

Drawn- 5

Lost- 6


Win ratio- 48%

Points per game- 1.67.


Up until 4 games ago it was


Won 10

Drawn 3

Lost 4


Win ratio- 59%

Points per game- 1.9



Not as impressive as the 41 points from 20 games that JFH got but Clough’s been in charge there for nearly half a season and it will be more than half the season by the time it’s finished.


If they go up, he will have had a significant hand in getting them there.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I know thats not the case, I was being sarcastic about him saying clough didnt have to pick from 43 , , he left picking from 43 , didnt he
he got them in

So......Adkins made 15 signings then?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Cloughs a joke, a charlatan with a big name. The second biggest factor in our current situation after the board.
He's Bryan Robson with a smaller drinks cabinet basically.

Soon he'll be exposed for the being the clueless twat that he is and he'll be nothing more than a bad memory for the fans of all his former clubs.

I think that’s unfair. His record suggests he’s an OK manager. He got some things very right and others very wrong when managing us. His stats at Burton suggest posted above suggest he’s been OK without being as good as JFH. I don’t think he’d have taken us up automatically this year if we’d kept him but probably would have made the playoffs again. His teams seem competitive but he doesn’t seem to give them the license and responsibility to get on a real roll smashing teams and gaining huge confidence. His cautious approach makes it difficult to get the sort of momentum needed for an automatic promotion challenge.

 

[Sean Thornton]

was quoting what some papers had put saying he was 30 k up

in fact his father got out before his legal cayman island funds in 2010 were made illegal by the tories , in the last parliament
a little heads up from sonny boy there
Cameron has benifitted to the tune of half a million in "gifts" in the past 5 years
no doubt all from offshore profit

Well you should do more research. Same as you should over United, Range Rovers. In fact everything, then you wouldn't , possibly, come over as being so dim.


I've replied in more detail in the correct thread.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Given that we're not going to even reach the play-offs this time, & that we'll end up with round about 67 points, what do you think Positive Nige will need to do to have us challenging for top 2 next season? Is he capable of bridging the even bigger gap?

Rough ball park I think he’ll need to get about 12-13 out (including those on loan) and about 7-8 in (including a couple out of Edgar, Baptiste and Hammond). Retain Long, release the rest.


Of the 8 coming in, I think 2 or 3 probably need to be real stand out quality with another 5 at the sort of standards offered by Edgar, Hammond etc. (do a job, decent pros with the right attitude).


I think that would see us mount some sort of decent challenge.


More than minor tweaks but with the contracts up in the summer, it’s not impossible if the board are prepared to back him.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You don't strike me as someone who spouts rubbish so I'll assume your not on the wind up here. I can accept someone saying Clough didn't fulfil the promise in his second season and ultimately he failed. These are points we can and do argue on and both are valid. What I cannot accept is the utter disregard of the first season where he in effect saved us from the abyss of a relegation scrap and got us to a cup semi final.

Also he is the only manager in the past 6 years under who we have gone forward. This isn't disputable. He found us near the bottom of the table and left us in the top 6. These are facts. This actually happened.

If we had moved forward this season then I would suggest he did operate under false pretences but the fact we have gone so far backward under a supposed superior manager says Clough wasn't bad. He had his flaws but to suggest what you say is so far wide of the mark it's staggering.

So far backwards? Really?


59 points from 41 games under Adkins- 1.4 points per game (to one decimal place)

71 from 46 under Clough.- 1.5 points per game (to one decimal place).


Not exactly a long way backwards when you consider the relative spending power afforded to both. That said, I don’t think Clough was particularly bad at managing the players he had. I don think our use of financial resources was very poor during his reign. I don’t know exactly how much that was down to him.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Yes if only Adkins hadn't just refused to buy players for no reason

McCabe- “come on Nigel, please spend all this money on quality players to get us up”


NA- “Fuck off Kevin. We’re spending nowt. I want to keep plodding on with a team full of mediocre shit-heads that I said weren’t good enough for promotion even before you sold Murphy. I don’t care if it makes me look bad”.


McCabe- “OK Nigel, you’re the boss”.




Must be fun to live in the world of blade too long

 

[Tyler Durden]

I think that’s unfair. His record suggests he’s an OK manager. He got some things very right and others very wrong when managing us. His stats at Burton suggest posted above suggest he’s been OK without being as good as JFH. I don’t think he’d have taken us up automatically this year if we’d kept him but probably would have made the playoffs again. His teams seem competitive but he doesn’t seem to give them the license and responsibility to get on a real roll smashing teams and gaining huge confidence. His cautious approach makes it difficult to get the sort of momentum needed for an automatic promotion challenge.

He's had two promotions, the first one being 15 years ago, the second was 7 years later.

The unfair part of that post was equating him with Robson. Because Robson actually has the better overall record.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't really see the need for the type of bile directed Clough's way. He gave us a couple of memorable cup runs and at the very least deserves some good standing based on that – which includes our first goals at Wembley since Cork in 93.

He failed in the league in his first full season, made some very poor decisions on recruitment in that season, and fell out with certain individuals, which have all had repercussions on Adkins this year, but it's possible to criticise his tenure without attacking the man.

Agreed. Mixed performance from Clough when he was here as it has been with Adkins this year. Clough had the cup runs over Adkins but Adkins hasn’t lumbered us with much terrible players so far (Woolford apart- the rest are loans). Only time will tell whether Adkins can go on and do better with his own squad. There are signs of improvement. I fancy about 8 of the starting 11 from Saturday to still be here next season and they are starting to look like they want to play for him now he has got some bad apples out. Still, need to add some more quality in the summer to mount a real challenge though.

 

[PeteBlade]

we are, where do I change my tune
I said even if we only had put up another 500k , in the JTW, thats on top of what we already spent

you acting thick doesnt help

The link you posted to the squad worth "£8.5 million"?

 

[blade too long]

Well you should do more research. Same as you should over United, Range Rovers. In fact everything, then you wouldn't , possibly, come over as being so dim.

you been on your thinking couch again

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He's had two promotions, the first one being 15 years ago, the second was 7 years later.

The unfair part of that post was equating him with Robson. Because Robson actually has the better overall record.

But looking at the circumstances, Robson has been given fantastic jobs with fortunes to spend based on his reputation as a player. He was an atrocious manager.

Clough has spent most of his time at Burton with spells at Derby and us where overall, he's been pretty average. Far better than Heath, Adams, Weir etc. but ultimately a failure.

 

[Grecian2000]

Burton top scorer has 8 goals.

Being sold in the transfer window probably didn't help those stats but hey . . . . . . at least we're not the only club who can sell the top scorer in the window.

 

[blade too long]

The link you posted to the squad worth "£8.5 million"?

what about it

if you have a squad of 42 all only worth only 200k each thats 8.4 million
we paid more that 25 per cent of that on 2

 

[Sean Thornton]

you been on your thinking couch again

View attachment 16865

Now that's irony

 

[blade too long]

Now that's irony

not to me its not , its upgrading your status

 

[PeteBlade]

what about it

if you have a squad of 42 all only worth only 200k each thats 8.4 million
we paid more that 25 per cent of that on 2

Because, as extensively pointed out to you, it was bollocks.
It was explained to you why it was bollocks.

You'd have to be extraordinarily stubborn or extraordinarily dim to still be using that website to claim we are the league's top spenders.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

The "Clough factor" is gonna keep the hapless Adkins in a fucking job. We all know if we hadn't sacked so many managers in such a short space time. Mr Chirpy chirpy cheep cheep. . . . . Would have been dispatched to history weeks ago.

 

[blade too long]

s

Because, as extensively pointed out to you, it was bollocks.
It was explained to you why it was bollocks.

You'd have to be extraordinarily stubborn or extraordinarily dim to still be using that website to claim we are the league's top spenders.

so which clubs have out spent us
Id agree Wigan might have , but they sold a hell of a lot in the first place
just wondered who else has "spent big "
have walsall out spent us for instance, they are in top 6

 

[1danewhitehouse]

team saturday
gk.. Long

• 34Edgar
• 19McEveley
• 8Coutts
• 6Basham
• 35Hammond
• 7Flynn
• 14Done
• 10Sharp
• 29Adams
• 21 Baptiste
• 
  
• long , mc evely basham flynn done and adams
• sure they played last season
• more than half the side thats doing ok now

we all knew the addition of 3 players would probably see us compete

name me any league one club that doesnt have some deadwood
I still have seen no substantiated reason given as to why Adkins didnt get in these players we needed
hes admitted some funds were there, even if it was 500k its 500k more than some got
why no punts on loans like on Coady , some free young players

just dont get it

Long was out on loan pretty much all of last season. Flynn was injured/ on the bench for a lot of it. Adams was hardly picked at all and started about 2 games. Done was here for less than half the season and was injured for a significant chunk of this one through injury.

So, 2 players that were regulars last season. 3 at a push if we include Flynn. Maybe 4 if we include Done too. You missed Coutts off as well so you could even argue 5. Not the "more than half a team" that you pretend.

Long
Baptiste
Edgar
Hammond
Adams
Sharp

Only one of those featured as a bit part sub under Clough. So more than half the team that wasn't regularly involved under Clough. But let's not let facts get in the way of btl's fantasy world where you just get to make shit up.

 

[blade too long]

howard was on the bench was he not
whats made up
6 were on the books under clough , wheres the fantasy in that

is that not the case
in fact adkins benifitted for having done and adams longer

 

[Barney]

I think we should just ignore the last 10 years or so of Adkins’ managerial career because he hasn’t pulled up any trees this season when inheriting a poor, injured, unfit, imbalanced, large, overpaid squad.

The ever so small difference between your post and mine being that one's in the here and now, the other has long gone. This season goes some way to showing what can happen when you rely on well bygone glories.