Criticising "fans" is the new anti-semitism

[Alfreton14Blade]

Comparison wasn't with anti-semitism. Comparison was between those who try to shut down any critique of Israel by a reflex response of "anti Semite", and those who try to shut down any critique of some of our supporters with a reflex response of, "oh, it must be the fan's fault then". That was the comparison. Exactly the same principle. Looks fair enough to me.

It's everywhere, all over this forum. It never used to be. Like I said, the logic of bullies.

But no-ones shutting any debate down (nor even trying to do so). You, like everyone else who makes such arguments, are fully capable of speaking up for yourself as you, in fact, demonstrate. You're not being bullied (nor is anyone else).

Are you seriously suggesting that folks have been unable to criticise elements of the support at Rochdale?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

But, I ask again: was there any criminal damage or other forms of criminal activity? Were there (m)any arrests? How much in the way of actual fighting was there? How does it compare with certain away fans on certain occasions at Bramall Lane - how exceptional was it? Can the wider events the club is embroiled in at least partly explain what went off?

Seems to me (& admittedly I wasn't there to witness it all first hand, so realise I may be talking bollocks) that there is a hell of a lot of hyperbole being used to describe events yesterday. "Back to some of the worst excesses of the 80s" - really??

As for the otherwise excellent poster overreacting (indeed involving himself in the hyperbole I mention), I stand by that claim. He offered a wild opinion; I totally disagree with it. No more, no less. But it was an (opinionated) opinion that we're talking about, not a neutral reflection on events.

I've done my best. You're not convinced.

In particular wrt kids - yesterday was like taking them to the pictures and finding yourself and them sitting through an 18 for violence, swearing, and alcohol abuse.

Is that what we want?

If not, how can we change it?

 

[mattbianco1]

You really think they were trying to steal the pitch cover?

As Grey Blade says. What were they actually trying to achieve. Criminal damage maybe?

 

[Northyorksblade]

[QUOTE

Are you seriously suggesting that folks have been unable to criticise elements of the support at Rochdale?[/QUOTE]
no but you are trying to trivialise it.

 

[Trigger Blade]

But no-ones shutting any debate down (nor even trying to do so). You, like everyone else who makes such arguments, are fully capable of speaking up for yourself as you, in fact, demonstrate. You're not being bullied (nor is anyone else).

Are you seriously suggesting that folks have been unable to criticise elements of the support at Rochdale?

You're coming across all Barney on this one Alf.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

You're coming across all Barney on this one Alf.

Whattcanyado?




No big deal. I just think the (non-)trouble at Rochdale has been massively overhyped. Certainly not meaning to trivialise something others may see as very important; just that I don't see eye to eye with them on this, not at all.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

But, being fair Hills, has anyone justified or defended criminal activity? That's not really what's at issue here. It's more about moralising or not moralising when it comes to fellow Blades (yes, fellow Blades) who went a bit over the top in the context of a heightened atmosphere.

And what damage was actually done, exactly (or criminal activity indulged in)? Does it compare with what, say, the notorious Worcester City mob carried out during their jolly up at the Lane earlier this season*?


(*To be fair to Worcester fans, they did have the humiliation of dealing with losing to a side as shit as us to deal with.)

Not there myself, but from reports there are as fighting (common or actual assault?) and potential public order offences. There may well be a reason for this, but not an excuse.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Not there myself, but from reports there are as fighting (common or actual assault?) and potential public order offences. There may well be a reason for this, but not an excuse.

For me whether laws were broken - though they undoubtedly were - is never really the issue.

Then it just descends into legal technicalities.

What happened yesterday was wrong.

It's a big issue for the club and I hope they/we can sort it out.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

For a second, let's take the "football supporter" tag away.

If these actions were taking place anywhere else, would there be anyone, no matter what age, find this behaviour, at the very least, unacceptable?
Folks are using football, Sheffield United as a means to cause mayhem, disruption, damage to property.

If those who are dismissing yesterday as others being too sensitive, to just accept it, that it's just a way of releasing emotions, easy to do if you weren't there as some were who've posted, I think you'd feel differently if you/anyone you knew were caught up in something similar, regardless of it being at football or not.

 

[Barney]

If the OP is suggesting the valid concern about the fans behaviour yesterday has been at all obscured by the nasty bullies, I suggest he make an appoinment with Specsavers immediately. Or would that be bullying?

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

What happened yesterday was wrong.

Summed up in five simple words.

 

[Bladesway]

Oh dear! Such a silly O/P (from an otherwise top-class poster).

It's a forum, folks hold differing views. Some chose to linger on events in the stands at Rochdale & hand-wring over them. Some saw those events, relatively-speaking, as an irrelevance. It's hardly the Intifada.

But, on a more serious note, isn't labeling those who don't happen to agree with your own views as pseudo-PC freaks, bullies, ideologues, narcissists every bit as bad as what's being complained about here? And it doesn't the easy flinging of such accusations suggest that it's hardly a situation whereby poor wilting violets are having their views obscured by nasty bullies.

It seems that those condemning the actions of some fans at Rochdale yesterday were in a significant majority on here & on social media more generally. Now, it seems that the "moral majority" insist on nothing less than total agreement with their views, if this plaintive, victimised cry is anything to go by.

Not how I read it at all. What needs to happen is that on pitch matters are separated from the knobheads who feel it acceptable to behave in a manner that you wouldn't be allowed to anywhere else. This shouldn't be confused with the utter clusterfuck that is SUFC. What is happening on the pitch isn't the fault of the fans but that doesn't make it acceptable to do what they are doing. The two shouldn't be linked. It isn't acceptable on the street, in the pub or anywhere else in life. What I have seen on here recently are comments such as :

"Its a bit of banter"
"Just a few lads having a bit of fun"
"The players deserve the abuse"

But please tell me that this is just an opinion and not someone condoning acts of vandalism and violence?

 

[Barney]

Not how I read it at all. What needs to happen is that on pitch matters are separated from the knobheads who feel it acceptable to behave in a manner that you wouldn't be allowed to anywhere else. This shouldn't be confused with the utter clusterfuck that is SUFC. What is happening on the pitch isn't the fault of the fans but that doesn't make it acceptable to do what they are doing. The two shouldn't be linked. It isn't acceptable on the street, in the pub or anywhere else in life. What I have seen on here recently are comments such as :

"Its a bit of banter"
"Just a few lads having a bit of fun"
"The players deserve the abuse"

But please tell me that this is just an opinion and not someone condoning acts of vandalism and violence?

Nobody is condoning anything, you want them to be so you can sit down take your jacket off and get stuck into 'em though.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Fight, flight or acquiesce?

 

[PeteBlade]

Comparison wasn't with anti-semitism. Comparison was between those who try to shut down any critique of Israel by a reflex response of "anti Semite", and those who try to shut down any critique of some of our supporters with a reflex response of, "oh, it must be the fan's fault then". That was the comparison. Exactly the same principle. Looks fair enough to me.

It's everywhere, all over this forum. It never used to be. Like I said, the logic of bullies.

What's all over this forum is people managing to condemn the actions of the mindless few without going over the top about it.

 

[Bladesway]

Nobody is condoning anything, you want them to be so you can sit down take your jacket off and get stuck into 'em though.

Shut up you child.

 

[ghandi]

****. Short for mongrel. Clearly not thoroughbred United fans, clearly mixed with something.

What did you think I meant?

The use of the word **** in my younger days was used as an insult as it alluded to people with Down's Syndrome. Thankfully this use over the years has been totally eradicated. If **** now means mongrel; for me and other people of a certain age, I'm sure we would like to see the addition of an extra 3 letters to avoid any confusion as to the exact meaning.