Adkins and League One

[jt64]

Something in danny's protest thread caught my eye, and it's something that has been echoed by quite a few people, and is hard to argue against based on track record at least:

This season we did another amazing thing.
The board paid out massive sums of money to pay off Clough and his crew and bring in the BEST manager at league 1 level.

So let's say he is the best manager that we could have got to get us out of the current division, and let's also assume that we're able to improve form a bit and get in, then win, the playoffs (big one, I know). Do the board then reassess who they want as manager? It sounds daft, but let's think about it - if a manager has been able to get multiple promotions out of the same division, he's been in that division a lot for a reason. At Scunthorpe he went straight back down the first time around, barely kept them up the second time around, and they went down after he went to Southampton. Credit where it's due, he did take Southampton up again, but barely lasted half a season in the Premier League and was replaced by a manager that was quickly able to stabilise them and secure safety, and then launch them into the top half the season after. He then ends up at Reading, again a club above our current level, which is pretty much a disaster.

Could it be the case that the third tier is the limit of where Adkins' managerial skills work? And if so, is there a huge risk of our board, should we get up, giving him too long on account of having got us up with possible fatal consequences? Now I'm on record as not being a fan of the appointment at the time, so it could just be me being biased against him, but based on eye tests from the games I've been to this season, I certainly get the feeling that this could be the case. We're lacking in pace and skill, both being able to use it and defend against it, which we might get away with here against weaker players but could get torn to shreds against higher quality strikers and easily shut down against more accomplished defences. He likes 4-4-2, this seems to leave us somewhat light in midfield even now, despite us having a PL centre mid on loan, if this is the case now, can we really hope to adapt our style to teams that may frequently use three centre mids, or at least two better ones than we have right now, or could hope to buy in? I've got a feeling that it's like the Peter Principle, and if Adkins does take us up, he should be on a very short leash, if not simply thanked for his efforts and we'll bring in someone with more tactical knowledge at the new levels. It wouldn't be unprecedented, at least overseas - after Klopp left Mainz, the new guy got them promoted in his first season and was sacked and replaced by Tuchel (now at Dortmund) before the very first game.

As I say, it'll all end up being moot as even our current best price of 7/1 for promotion looks short, but we don't need to just get up, we need to stay up, which is an entire different game altogether, and would NA be the guy to do that?

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think in the past we've brought in players with 1 eye on the Championship because we expected quick promotion.

But many Blades have said don't plan for the Championship. Just buy the best manager and best players effective in league 1, then worry about the Championship once we get there. We seem to be keen on bringing in PL and CC rejects rather than the hottest talents in league 1 and 2 (Done and Adams being the exceptions).

I think Adkins was more desirable because he's had 3 promotions from league 1.
Managed a club similar size to us (Southampton) with huge expectation.
And he's even managed to gain successful promotions getting Sothsmpton into the PL.

So based on his cv he has more relevant skills, experience and on paper a better choice than either Mourinho, Klopp or Wenger.

 

[BushBlade]

Keeping Scunny in the Championship isn't easy, I'd say almost impossible. He's won promotion from the Championship with Southampton. The best we'd replace him with is someone else who's been promoted from the Championship. I don't see the logic.

 

[Bartleby]

Could it be the case that the third tier is the limit of where Adkins' managerial skills work?

No. As you said he got Saints straight up from Div 3 to thetop flight, a la Bassett, and after a shaky start was starting to turn it round but, unlike Bassett, wasn't given any more time.

 

[metalblade]

Something in danny's protest thread caught my eye, and it's something that has been echoed by quite a few people, and is hard to argue against based on track record at least:



So let's say he is the best manager that we could have got to get us out of the current division, and let's also assume that we're able to improve form a bit and get in, then win, the playoffs (big one, I know). Do the board then reassess who they want as manager? It sounds daft, but let's think about it - if a manager has been able to get multiple promotions out of the same division, he's been in that division a lot for a reason. At Scunthorpe he went straight back down the first time around, barely kept them up the second time around, and they went down after he went to Southampton. Credit where it's due, he did take Southampton up again, but barely lasted half a season in the Premier League and was replaced by a manager that was quickly able to stabilise them and secure safety, and then launch them into the top half the season after. He then ends up at Reading, again a club above our current level, which is pretty much a disaster.

Could it be the case that the third tier is the limit of where Adkins' managerial skills work? And if so, is there a huge risk of our board, should we get up, giving him too long on account of having got us up with possible fatal consequences? Now I'm on record as not being a fan of the appointment at the time, so it could just be me being biased against him, but based on eye tests from the games I've been to this season, I certainly get the feeling that this could be the case. We're lacking in pace and skill, both being able to use it and defend against it, which we might get away with here against weaker players but could get torn to shreds against higher quality strikers and easily shut down against more accomplished defences. He likes 4-4-2, this seems to leave us somewhat light in midfield even now, despite us having a PL centre mid on loan, if this is the case now, can we really hope to adapt our style to teams that may frequently use three centre mids, or at least two better ones than we have right now, or could hope to buy in? I've got a feeling that it's like the Peter Principle, and if Adkins does take us up, he should be on a very short leash, if not simply thanked for his efforts and we'll bring in someone with more tactical knowledge at the new levels. It wouldn't be unprecedented, at least overseas - after Klopp left Mainz, the new guy got them promoted in his first season and was sacked and replaced by Tuchel (now at Dortmund) before the very first game.

As I say, it'll all end up being moot as even our current best price of 7/1 for promotion looks short, but we don't need to just get up, we need to stay up, which is an entire different game altogether, and would NA be the guy to do that?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree buddy. Wilson, Clough, Adkins all are competent managers at this level and at the one above this level maybe you should be looking for problems higher up the food chain like two owners both based overseas with Papa Smurf taking all the shit on Twitter and blocking anyone who doesn't lick his arse. 4-4-2 isn't the problem either the bloke in charge of the dingles has settled on that system and is now storming up the league after a terrible start, Adkins is just left with a set of players who don't fit well into any system other than packing defence and hope they get lucky at the other end.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Pochettino did a great job after Southampton binned Adkins, let's get him.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Madness to even be talking hypothetically about promotion in our current predicament. This is the worst team we've had since we've been down here (aside from that first few months under Weir). We may sneak into the play-offs (I doubt it), but even if we managed that I'd have us at about 6/1, rank outsiders.

I'd like to say I'm looking forward to next season too, where the best case scenario is seeing the backs of the crocks and the dross that have got us here and signing in some quality. But Adkins signed Woolford and Sammon and more unbelievably than that did not sign a single defender. He also made McEveley captain. And the signs at board level don't look good either, the honeymoon is over and the interest seems to have waned.

Hypothetically if we did go up I don't think we'd have the loot to compete with our neighbours and co and would be facing a relegation battle.

But hey ho.

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Was Adkins the only manager (out of work) at the time, the best option?

 

[JohnDenver]

Madness to even be talking hypothetically about promotion in our current predicament. This is the worst team we've had since we've been down here (aside from that first few months under Weir). We may sneak into the play-offs (I doubt it), but even if we managed that I'd have us at about 6/1, rank outsiders.

I'd like to say I'm looking forward to next season too, where the best case scenario is seeing the backs of the crocks and the dross that have got us here and signing in some quality. But Adkins signed Woolford and Sammon and more unbelievably than that did not sign a single defender. He also made McEveley captain. And the signs at board level don't look good either, the honeymoon is over and the interest seems to have waned.

Hypothetically if we did go up I don't think we'd have the loot to compete with our neighbours and co and would be facing a relegation battle.

But hey ho.

I think we'll see a lot more money spent if we go up. But I think our budget right now should be enough to get us out the division. Our problem isn't a tight-wad board, it's just about being remotely competent.

 

[Bartleby]

Was Adkins the only manager (out of work) at the time, the best option?

Phil Parkinson was strongly linked, much to the horror of many on here (me included). Adkins was the one I wanted in, by a country mile, and I still want to see him given the chance.

 

[Jehovah]

Most people were delighted with the appointment of Adkins and stated we were only a couple of signings away. We need 67 new players IMO.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I was delighted with the appointment. But before the season had even started I was starting to doubt my early optimism. McEveley as captain, trusting what we had was strong enough when I'd seen with my own eyes the season before that it wasn't, signing Woolford and Sammon... Then we played Gillingham.

 

[loyalblade95]

the guy is here for the long run and he said time and time again the squad is not good enough for promotion and still says it to this day but people are getting angry at him as it doesnt look like wel get promoted this season and i kno people who want him out which is ridiculous as far as im concerned since the prince owns 50% of the club compared to mcabe and phipps only owning 25% each and it doesnt seem like the prince has ever put a penny into this club even though he is the majority owner which isnt good enough when mcabe ran the club he ran it like a business investing in it by giving us money to buy players and we were rewarded with multiple promotions as far as im aware that is what the prince should be doing with his 50% or he should go was talking to a few fans about it after swindon and they seem to agree with me prince is just here to make money of the club running clubs like a business is how you get promoted it was mcabe and phipps who bought adkins in at least their trying to get us out of league one as for people who go on about our best players getting sold if they want to leave the club you let them go

 

[Toledo Blade]

Something in danny's protest thread caught my eye, and it's something that has been echoed by quite a few people, and is hard to argue against based on track record at least:



So let's say he is the best manager that we could have got to get us out of the current division, and let's also assume that we're able to improve form a bit and get in, then win, the playoffs (big one, I know). Do the board then reassess who they want as manager? It sounds daft, but let's think about it - if a manager has been able to get multiple promotions out of the same division, he's been in that division a lot for a reason. At Scunthorpe he went straight back down the first time around, barely kept them up the second time around, and they went down after he went to Southampton. Credit where it's due, he did take Southampton up again, but barely lasted half a season in the Premier League and was replaced by a manager that was quickly able to stabilise them and secure safety, and then launch them into the top half the season after. He then ends up at Reading, again a club above our current level, which is pretty much a disaster.

Could it be the case that the third tier is the limit of where Adkins' managerial skills work? And if so, is there a huge risk of our board, should we get up, giving him too long on account of having got us up with possible fatal consequences? Now I'm on record as not being a fan of the appointment at the time, so it could just be me being biased against him, but based on eye tests from the games I've been to this season, I certainly get the feeling that this could be the case. We're lacking in pace and skill, both being able to use it and defend against it, which we might get away with here against weaker players but could get torn to shreds against higher quality strikers and easily shut down against more accomplished defences. He likes 4-4-2, this seems to leave us somewhat light in midfield even now, despite us having a PL centre mid on loan, if this is the case now, can we really hope to adapt our style to teams that may frequently use three centre mids, or at least two better ones than we have right now, or could hope to buy in? I've got a feeling that it's like the Peter Principle, and if Adkins does take us up, he should be on a very short leash, if not simply thanked for his efforts and we'll bring in someone with more tactical knowledge at the new levels. It wouldn't be unprecedented, at least overseas - after Klopp left Mainz, the new guy got them promoted in his first season and was sacked and replaced by Tuchel (now at Dortmund) before the very first game.

As I say, it'll all end up being moot as even our current best price of 7/1 for promotion looks short, but we don't need to just get up, we need to stay up, which is an entire different game altogether, and would NA be the guy to do that?

At the time we appointed Adkins I was happy I had good vibes, his credentials looked a perfect match to what the Blades needed a manager who knew how to get promotion as he had success, and my hopes for the season were very high. Personally it’s not working out so far for him or the Blades. I agree he inherited most of the team, but it his job to influence and motivate them to achieve. When you play poor football and are winning games 1-0 supporters tend to accept this, but when the results are bad and you’re playing appalling football that’s when it can get ugly. What also does not help is Adkins football tactics and the way we play it is so bland no attacking flair what so ever, Sharp has 14 goals but 8 are penalty’s.

Believe it or not Neil Collins has had more shots on goal than most of the midfield players this speaks volume on how Adkins has the Blades playing. When you are a fan you always live with hope, I’m still hoping we can make the playoffs, football is such a funny game anything is possible go no further than Leicester last season and this season. At Blackpool this week I was a little surprised at the booing of the players at the end when they came to applaud another sign that Adkins may be losing the supporters he has already had to defend them once this season. For me I feel he will get us there at some time but we are only fans none of us know what goes on behind the scenes at the Blades, and will never know. So fingers crossed lets hope it sooner than later.

 

[ThatJa]

If you go up from League One to the Championship, the last thing you want to do is sack your manager.

 

[Hunkerby]

I can't believe anyone would advocate an outdated (1969) bullschit theory known as the 'Peter Principle' to justify sacking our manager AFTER he gets us promoted!
What kind of a person wants to take away a mans livelihood and deprive him of all he has worked for for 20 years as a REWARD for getting us promoted?

 

[davidpinder]

the guy is here for the long run and he said time and time again the squad is not good enough for promotion and still says it to this day but people are getting angry at him as it doesnt look like wel get promoted this season and i kno people who want him out which is ridiculous as far as im concerned since the prince owns 50% of the club compared to mcabe and phipps only owning 25% each and it doesnt seem like the prince has ever put a penny into this club even though he is the majority owner which isnt good enough when mcabe ran the club he ran it like a business investing in it by giving us money to buy players and we were rewarded with multiple promotions as far as im aware that is what the prince should be doing with his 50% or he should go was talking to a few fans about it after swindon and they seem to agree with me prince is just here to make money of the club running clubs like a business is how you get promoted it was mcabe and phipps who bought adkins in at least their trying to get us out of league one as for people who go on about our best players getting sold if they want to leave the club you let them go

Now i am confused, I thought McCabe owned 50% and so did the prince? Phipps is just co chairman as the prince apparently can't do it due to his Saudi role? If they own 75% between them then they need to be getting serious grief that has been aimed at McCabe recently as I wouldn't invest if I only owned 25%.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I can't believe anyone would advocate an outdated (1969) bullschit theory known as the 'Peter Principle' to justify sacking our manager AFTER he gets us promoted!
What kind of a person wants to take away a mans livelihood and deprive him of all he has worked for for 20 years as a REWARD for getting us promoted?

A good chairman would have rewarded Warnock with a £400K bonus as he walked out of the door.

Southampton knew what they were doing apparently getting rid of their promotion winning manager.

 

[Treeton Blade]

Was Adkins the only manager (out of work) at the time, the best option?

As Jim Phipps said at the time, Adkins is the most qualified man on earth to get us out of League One (3 promotions fron the division), theres only Simon Grayson who can match Adkins record.

Whatever happens this season, I believe in sticking with him, allowing him the full summer to bring in more of his own players, and go again next season.

To get rid of him would be counterproductive IMO.

 

[Hunkerby]

A good chairman would have rewarded Warnock with a £400K bonus as he walked out of the door.

Southampton knew what they were doing apparently getting rid of their promotion winning manager.

I remember Warnock once claiming that he improved as a manager as he gained experience.
I actually believe this to be true - he was a better manager after McCabe fired him than he was before McCabe hired him.
This explains why Warnock was in high demand after leaving SUFC and makes his departure mystifying even to this day.

From what I have read Adkins did a very reasonable job in the Premiership and Southampton fans generally thought that he was unfairly treated.
I expect that at some stage he will get a 2nd chance in the Premiership.
I hope that is with us.

 

[Ted Danson]

the guy is here for the long run and he said time and time again the squad is not good enough for promotion and still says it to this day but people are getting angry at him as it doesnt look like wel get promoted this season and i kno people who want him out which is ridiculous as far as im concerned since the prince owns 50% of the club compared to mcabe and phipps only owning 25% each and it doesnt seem like the prince has ever put a penny into this club even though he is the majority owner which isnt good enough when mcabe ran the club he ran it like a business investing in it by giving us money to buy players and we were rewarded with multiple promotions as far as im aware that is what the prince should be doing with his 50% or he should go was talking to a few fans about it after swindon and they seem to agree with me prince is just here to make money of the club running clubs like a business is how you get promoted it was mcabe and phipps who bought adkins in at least their trying to get us out of league one as for people who go on about our best players getting sold if they want to leave the club you let them go

im not normally a grammer pedant but thats a fucking long sentence.

I dont think we need worry ourselves about sacking the manager if he gets promotion because theres no chance of that this season, we will sign nobody this window then finish about 10th. Adkins will be given money to buy some players in the summer then sacked mid November when everyone realises his signings and tactics are shite and that he shouldnt have been given more time in the first place. Then the new manager will come in and blame Adkins wank squad for his fialings and then say we need to get rid but theyl be on new 3 year contracts so itll be another season or 2 before we can get new players. Repeat infenitem.

I dont like sacking managers but still feel NA is the wrong man so we might aswell get rid ASAP and find someone who has some good things going for him other than a CV

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Adkins is just Willie Wonka but without any chocolate.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We are all guilty of being part of the biggest deception in history. Down the years we have been sold the theory that SUFC was an actual football club.
But as it turns out we are just a "land bank" for the Scarborough groups property portfolio.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We are all guilty of being part of the biggest deception in history. Down the years we have been sold the theory that SUFC was an actual football club.
But as it turns out we are just a "land bank" for the Scarborough groups property portfolio.

Oops sorry, wrong thread

 

[Caseh]

I still think Adkins is the man that will get us promoted. It's really harsh to judge someone that is having to work with someone else's tools. Especially when those tools are crap.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I still think Adkins is the man that will get us promoted. It's really harsh to judge someone that is having to work with someone else's tools. Especially when those tools are crap.

And while he's having to empty most of the tools out of the (allegedly) overstuffed toolbox & offer them up in a firesale. All while subliminal messages are being sent out to fans, suggesting (absurdly) that strenuous efforts are being made to buy an expensive piece of new kit called a "Danburn".

 

[BushBlade]

Oops sorry, wrong thread

They all end up the same anyway.

 

[loyalblade95]

im not normally a grammer pedant but thats a fucking long sentence.

I dont think we need worry ourselves about sacking the manager if he gets promotion because theres no chance of that this season, we will sign nobody this window then finish about 10th. Adkins will be given money to buy some players in the summer then sacked mid November when everyone realises his signings and tactics are shite and that he shouldnt have been given more time in the first place. Then the new manager will come in and blame Adkins wank squad for his fialings and then say we need to get rid but theyl be on new 3 year contracts so itll be another season or 2 before we can get new players. Repeat infenitem.

I dont like sacking managers but still feel NA is the wrong man so we might aswell get rid ASAP and find someone who has some good things going for him other than a CV

if we sack adkins who would we get for next manager theres no one whos better than him and without a job at the moment

 

[loyalblade95]

Now i am confused, I thought McCabe owned 50% and so did the prince? Phipps is just co chairman as the prince apparently can't do it due to his Saudi role? If they own 75% between them then they need to be getting serious grief that has been aimed at McCabe recently as I wouldn't invest if I only owned 25%.

mcabe sold half his shares a few years back just before he bought up shares in fernabache and central coast mariners which if i remember correctly was around the same time the prince and phipps bought shares in the club

 

[sothall blade]

if we sack adkins who would we get for next manager theres no one whos better than him and without a job at the moment

Jose Mourhino ?