Nigel Clough - "I Didn't Fail"

[Bartleby]

If Adkins manages to finish 5th this season and get us to the FA Cup semi final then I would consider that a miracle!!! So the fact that Clough got to two semis and had us in the play offs last year isn't too shabby is it!

Yes Clough made mistakes in the summer transfer window last year, but I would consider Adkins mistakes this year are even worse as he and the board have had the benefit from learning from last year....which they haven't at all.

Clough should have been given another year. If you want longevity and success then you also have to be willing to accept managers will make mistakes. What Clough said is spot on, as long as you're seeing progress and are challenging at the right end of the table, then you should be given time.

it will be interesting to see how much time the board, and fans, give Adkins.

I'd settle for 5th and no cup runs now personally. I agree about giving managers time but looking at Clough's record he does seem to need an awful lot of it. 4 years to get Burton up to the Conference, 7 years to get them to the verge of League 2 (I would credit him with that eventual promotion though), then 5 years treading water in the championship with Derby and in the bottom half again when he was sacked.

No, not for me and I said that when he came in.

 

[grafikhaus]

Interesting timing just after Dean Saunders gets the boot from a certain club that is commutable from Matlock. Deserves his say though given the public criticism he's had from Jim Phipps.

Good point, however Stuart Gray and 30+ other 'managers' are in for the Chezzie job. (Edit: Make that 31+. Paul Sturrock has just got the boot). When a managerial job becomes available, all these failures are like YTS kids at a Jobs Fair.

 

[Bartleby]

(Edit: Make that 31+. Paul Sturrock has just got the boot).

can't see him making the shortlist looking at where Yeovil are right now.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

If Adkins manages to finish 5th this season and get us to the FA Cup semi final then I would consider that a miracle!!! So the fact that Clough got to two semis and had us in the play offs last year isn't too shabby is it!

Yes Clough made mistakes in the summer transfer window last year, but I would consider Adkins mistakes this year are even worse as he and the board have had the benefit from learning from last year....which they haven't at all.

Clough should have been given another year. If you want longevity and success then you also have to be willing to accept managers will make mistakes. What Clough said is spot on, as long as you're seeing progress and are challenging at the right end of the table, then you should be given time.

it will be interesting to see how much time the board, and fans, give Adkins.

I largely agree. On performance alone, Clough didn’t deserve to be sacked. But he got a lot wrong in that second season and definitely deserves some criticism for that. He also did certain things that enraged me and I dare say other fans too. Lying to the fans about Collins, Picking that atrocious Alcock and McEveley pairing at Swindon, never trying McNulty and O Grady together, Trying to shut up shop and see the game out for a point at home to ten man Bradford, renewing McEveley’s contract, talking about lack of motivation away at Yeovil as if it was an acceptable inevitability etc. There were times when he made me so angry I just wanted him to fuck off there and then but looking at the whole of the reign objectively the job he did in his first season was fantastic and the second was probably average. His recruitment in summer 2014 seemed to let him down badly but there are questions over how much of that was down to Clough and how much down to the board not financing the players he wanted (O Grady, Brayford, Coady etc.)


I do think it’s a little unfair to judge Adkins’ performance on how he manages the same group left behind by Clough though. The 2 have different management styles and Clough perhaps built a group who are responsive to the school headmaster style and not responsive to the positive trust based style of Adkins. For anyone who ever studied published motivation techniques, there are a number of recognised approaches. Herzberg developed the X and Y theory. The X theory (used by Clough) assumed that workers (players) dislike work and need to be motivated by fear or financial reward. The Y theory (used by Adkins) is based around a more parcipitative management style based on encouragement and making staff feel valued etc. I don’t think we’ll see Adkins be successful until he can put together a squad where the majority respond to his methods. That doesn’t make him a bad manager, but it does mean he is struggling with the twats that he’s inherited at the club.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It's anybody's guess as to what happened, and and the loosening of his tongue this week just means that somebody's prepaired to pay cloughs contract up with the blades, because they'd have to to hire clough.. We will still be paying him..

..

Could also be that he has agreed a payoff recently with us and is looking to get back in the game so is getting out there given the situations at Walsall and Chesterfield (and possibly Forest).

 

[Worksop_Blade]

His recruitment in summer 2014 seemed to let him down badly but there are questions over how much of that was down to Clough and how much down to the board not financing the players he wanted (O Grady, Brayford, Coady etc.).

It all comes round to the same question of why are the club so obsessed with targets from the Premier League or Championship? If Negative Nige had set his sights on the best players in L1 or L2, he might of got the majority of them, he might have got the club promoted and he may still have a job.

 

[Bladesince59]

3 nil down to Swindon on 19 minutes was a failure,

 

[BushBlade]

It all comes round to the same question of why are the club so obsessed with targets from the Premier League or Championship? If Negative Nige had set his sights on the best players in L1 or L2, he might of got the majority of them, he might have got the club promoted and he may still have a job.

Because they don't seem to understand how little difference there is in the quality of a L1 player and a championship player compared to the difference in wages they earn. It's as simple as that. They're paying 100% more for 10% more quality.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Finishing 5th and massively fucking up the play-offs when your goal was promotion = failure. That's not failure meant in any detrimental way or as any kind of personal attack...he had a target and was given the resources with which he could easily have attained that target. He didn't. That's a failure however you dress it up.

If I was to talk detrimentally about him, I'd say he was an arrogant cunt who finished so far away from the top two (both in footballing terms and mathematically) they might as well have been top of La Liga. His recruitment policy has done us so royally up the rear that we're facing the reality of a 6th season in the third tier and his brand of football made the Lane a poisonous place to be at times. That's a ruddy big whopper of a failure in my eyes.

This lot at the moment might not be pulling up any trees, but at least they sometimes have a fucking go when they go forward. 'You start a game with a point' is a mantra that will haunt me for the rest of my days and serve as a constant reminder of how the game should never be played.

Massive thanks for the cup runs; they were great fun. But we're still down here when it didn't have to be this way.

Bravo! Well said.

 

[Bladesway]

"It certainly wasn't the case at Sheffield because we went from third from bottom to seventh, fifth and two semi-finals. So if that's failure, good luck to everybody else."

I'd give that comment a like if I could. Wouldn't mind being 5th at the end of this season would we?

 

[Bladesway]

Bravo! Well said.

Yep, because its so much better now we have a different bloke in charge isn't it? Oh no, its actually got worse.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It all comes round to the same question of why are the club so obsessed with targets from the Premier League or Championship? If Negative Nige had set his sights on the best players in L1 or L2, he might of got the majority of them, he might have got the club promoted and he may still have a job.

JCR, McNulty, K. Wallace, Scougall, Butler, Done, Alcock, McEveley, Adams, Holt etc. were all signed from this level or lower. Just not enough of the right qualities between them. If we'd pushed the boat out and signed Brayford, Coady, O Grady and held Maguire to his contract, would that really cost more than what we spent on those mentioned above plus Higdon, McGahey, Basham, Davies, Freeman, Coutts etc? Surely it would have given us a better shot at promotion? The squad would have been smaller meaning probably a few more games for De Girolamo, Reed, Khan, Dimaio etc.

 

[TJB.]

Yep, because its so much better now we have a different bloke in charge isn't it? Oh no, its actually got worse.

So would you have kept him and crossed yer fingers that we could 1-0 ourselves right to the top of the league? Sign on for more Brayford at centre-back and Higdon on his own upfront? Another 10 months of hearing what a cunt McNulty is?

Nigel Adkins is the right man who currently possesses the wrong tools (and what a bunch of fucking tools some of them are). Give him time.

 

[SB_90]

i can understand what clough is on about because in a way it wasn't a failure he brought some of my fav moments at the lane since warnock in them cup runs making a domestic semi final for a decade & 1st for time in our history semi finals in consecutive years but then also quite a few lows in the league fleetwood & swindon 1st leg. & thats the problem only wigan are under bigger/qual pressure to get promotion, i still think that it was the right the decison to part ways because he was losing the plot by the end & turning into a dicator

 

[Woodwardfan]

Yep, because its so much better now we have a different bloke in charge isn't it? Oh no, its actually got worse.

Steps back before steps forward I hope ( and expect) but fair comment at this stage but it's still only 6 months.

If we reach the play-offs and at the same time cull the squad, ready for the second stage of the cull next summer, I reckon we can come out of this dip much stronger.

"If" is a big word though.

At the end of the day Adkins and his two support men are no mugs, they can't be.

Turnbull has yet to get the opportunity to prove his worth. Scunny still misfiring though.

 

[OllyBlade]

We had finished every season lower in the football league than the season before since 2009 until Clough steadied us. I think the Maguire sale hurt Clough more than anything else. Rather than going into the new season with an established and competent defence we had a mess which he couldn't sort. Falling out with Butler didn't help. I think he'd learnt lessons though and would have got us well prepared for this season (e.g. not signing Holt, knew we needed more height and strenght in midfield, rumoured signings were promising)

 

[blade too long]

Well he certainly didn't succeed

Clough key point
"It certainly wasn't the case at Sheffield because we went from third from bottom to seventh, fifth and two semi-finals. So if that's failure, good luck to everybody else."

when its put like that it was a bit harsh
we,d hit rock bottom and in 18 month he got further in 2 cups than wednesday have this century
by getting league one players believing they were better than they were

 

[Bartleby]

Another problem was that he put more effort into the cup runs. We could've won promotion playing like we did in the cups.

Baffling was that. I can only conclude that they could get motivated for, and confident in, those games because there wasn't the pressure of expectation when playing teams from higher divisions, unlike being at home to Fleetwood. It was short term glory, instant gratification and positive media attention for them, much nicer than the long slog required to win promotion.

 

[Bartleby]

he got further in 2 cups than wednesday have this century
by getting league one players believing they were better than they were

except in league games.

 

[blade too long]

except in league games.

again starting from rock bottom he improved us in both seasons
yes we lost in the play offs second time around but we were going in the right direction

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Because they don't seem to understand how little difference there is in the quality of a L1 player and a championship player compared to the difference in wages they earn. It's as simple as that. They're paying 100% more for 10% more quality.

But maybe 10% is in fact a huge difference.

Run the 100m in 10s and you're probably an Olympic finalist.

Run it 10% slower and you're probably not even placing in a national championship.

The margins in elite and professional sport are sometimes very small.

If Hammond was 10% faster he'd already be a Blades Legend.



Ok maybe 20% faster.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

except in league games.

Nigel Clough is responsible for one of the greatest league runs in the history of the club.

7 wins and 7 clean sheets in a row.

 

[BushBlade]

But maybe 10% is in fact a huge difference.

Run the 100m in 10s and you're probably an Olympic finalist.

Run it 10% slower and you're probably not even placing in a national championship.

The margins in elite and professional sport are sometimes very small.

If Hammond was 10% faster he'd already be a Blades Legend.



Ok maybe 20% faster.

It's an unnecessary and inefficient use of money.

I've yet to see any of our former championship signings give anything that we couldn't get from good L1 players for lower wages.

If we continue like this the prince will run out of money.

 

[BushBlade]

Baffling was that. I can only conclude that they could get motivated for, and confident in, those games because there wasn't the pressure of expectation when playing teams from higher divisions, unlike being at home to Fleetwood. It was short term glory, instant gratification and positive media attention for them, much nicer than the long slog required to win promotion.

I'd say our tactics were far more effective against teams from higher divisions who were expected to beat us than L1 sides who were happy to come away from the Lane with a point or even a smash and grab.
We struggled to break down teams who didn't commit numbers in attack and often left ourselves quite open when we committed men forward trying to break them down. Lack of pace meant our defenders were (and are) not good with one on ones.

That and we played some bobbar teams who are still struggling now. Villa, Fulham, Charlton, Forest; what a pile of shite they are. Even Saints were going through a rough patch when we played them.

 

[secretchief]

Clough key point
"It certainly wasn't the case at Sheffield because we went from third from bottom to seventh, fifth and two semi-finals. So if that's failure, good luck to everybody else."

when its put like that it was a bit harsh
we,d hit rock bottom and in 18 month he got further in 2 cups than wednesday have this century
by getting league one players believing they were better than they were

Well we've been over this laboriously but it's severely misleading to suggest that going from 7th to 5th represents an improvement because his points per game total was so far superior in the first season to the second. The ppg total during his second season represented a significant regression and he was objectively taking us backwards. Less quickly than Adkins has managed, admittedly.

 

[wizadry]

I think he'd learnt lessons though and would have got us well prepared for this season (e.g. not signing Holt, knew we needed more height and strenght in midfield, rumoured signings were promising)

Who needs midfielders that can score goals when you have our stalwarts

He had 5 in 11 starts for us and he has 6 in 14 starts for Rangers, i mean he must be wank and Clough could see that. Fuck goals, lets get some tall strong fucker who runs around a lot. I honestly think some of our fans are in that much of a trance they forget that you have to score goals to win games. To be fair, Clough did a great job to get them in that trance.

Who were the rumoured signings Olly?

 

[BushBlade]

Who needs midfielders that can score goals when you have our stalwarts

He had 5 in 11 starts for us and he has 6 in 14 starts for Rangers, i mean he must be wank and Clough could see that. Fuck goals, lets get some tall strong fucker who runs around a lot. I honestly think some of our fans are in that much of a trance they forget that you have to score goals to win games. To be fair, Clough did a great job to get them in that trance.

Who were the rumoured signings Olly?

Rangers are in the Scottish second division. It's not a good standard.

 

[wizadry]

Rangers are in the Scottish second division. It's not a good standard.

I thought they were in the Scottish first division? What ever league they are in, it can't be worse or much worse than what we are currently playing at now.

 

[Bladesway]

So would you have kept him and crossed yer fingers that we could 1-0 ourselves right to the top of the league? Sign on for more Brayford at centre-back and Higdon on his own upfront? Another 10 months of hearing what a cunt McNulty is?

Nigel Adkins is the right man who currently possesses the wrong tools (and what a bunch of fucking tools some of them are). Give him time.

Fact is no one knows but plenty are ready to assume because it suits their agenda. Brayford and Done were Clough signings. In the same way McDonald being sold sank Weir, McGuire being sold sank Clough, it could be the sale of Murphy that sinks Adkins.

Ih and isnt McNulty on loan right now? Hardly the chosen one now is he?

You may not want to hear it but on evidence changing managers doesnt work. Look where we are. We keep channging but we keep slipping backwards.

 

[blade too long]

Well we've been over this laboriously but it's severely misleading to suggest that going from 7th to 5th represents an improvement because his points per game total was so far superior in the first season to the second. The ppg total during his second season represented a significant regression and he was objectively taking us backwards. Less quickly than Adkins has managed, admittedly.

his best shot was getting us to a play offs , he managed it and gave us some great cup adventures on the way
wasnt perfect but wasnt as bad as some make out