Identity, patience, hoof etc.

[1danewhitehouse]

Since I’ve been on this forum and before that on bladesmad, I have generally been of the view that we need to execute a long term plan to implement a footballing strategy. Bringing in young players with skill and pace. Playing a style of football that is attractive and progressive. Basically, a sort of Swansea model. This idea started for me around the time Speed was appointed and it seemed the club decided to have another go at it when they appointed Weir. Clough was another who player 4231 with the ball largely on the floor with smaller technical players. Now Adkins still likes to get it down and play but tends to prefer 442. I’ve often called for patience and the need for us to make this work as a club and have some continuity in our style but as we head for another dreadful season with the lane atmosphere the worst I can remember, with the team playing in an alien kit and the players on the pitch looking like they can’t be arsed with anything but their playboy lifestyle, I find myself questioning whether this can work for us as a club.


I watch the old videos of the Bassett and Warnock days and remember with a lump in my throat the swell of pride I felt at times supporting those sides and my perseverance with playing a certain way and sticking to certain principles is wavering. I wonder if the only way we can ever really create that special Sheffield United feeling is to play the “up and at em” game in the red and white stripes with shit triers willing to die for the cause. Maybe someone needs to have a word with me about the importance of being patient and sticking with the approach and letting Adkins build a team that can really excel playing the “right way”. Anybody else feeling that they’d give owt now to watch some average to shit footballers try their hearts out for the club like Booker, Rogers, Monty, Kozluk, Morgs, Geary, Cresswell etc.?

 

[BushBlade]

Since I’ve been on this forum and before that on bladesmad, I have generally been of the view that we need to execute a long term plan to implement a footballing strategy. Bringing in young players with skill and pace. Playing a style of football that is attractive and progressive. Basically, a sort of Swansea model. This idea started for me around the time Speed was appointed and it seemed the club decided to have another go at it when they appointed Weir. Clough was another who player 4231 with the ball largely on the floor with smaller technical players. Now Adkins still likes to get it down and play but tends to prefer 442. I’ve often called for patience and the need for us to make this work as a club and have some continuity in our style but as we head for another dreadful season with the lane atmosphere the worst I can remember, with the team playing in an alien kit and the players on the pitch looking like they can’t be arsed with anything but their playboy lifestyle, I find myself questioning whether this can work for us as a club.


I watch the old videos of the Bassett and Warnock days and remember with a lump in my throat the swell of pride I felt at times supporting those sides and my perseverance with playing a certain way and sticking to certain principles is wavering. I wonder if the only way we can ever really create that special Sheffield United feeling is to play the “up and at em” game in the red and white stripes with shit triers willing to die for the cause. Maybe someone needs to have a word with me about the importance of being patient and sticking with the approach and letting Adkins build a team that can really excel playing the “right way”. Anybody else feeling that they’d give owt now to watch some average to shit footballers try their hearts out for the club like Booker, Rogers, Monty, Kozluk, Morgs, Geary, Cresswell etc.?

So what you're saying is, Uncle Lenners was right all along?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So what you're saying is, Uncle Lenners was right all along?

Hahah, I assume you're referring to a thread on blades mad in the Weir days where I questioned whether we, as a fanbase, had the patience to allow the Swansea model to work? Len contributed along the lines of no patience required, goals scored bear no relevance to how entertaining a team is etc. calling Roberto Martinez a liar when he talked about the need for patience and the early frustrations he encountered at Swansea etc. before later conceding that some patience was required. No, I'm not convinced he was right at all. My main change from then is that whereas I thought many other fans were too impatient for the Swansea approach to work, 2 and a bit years later, still being shite, I'm now thinking I might join them!

 

[coaxingstar71]

Personally I think we should implement whatever style of play it takes with the players available to get promoted and worry about style later. Unfortunately, I don't think this current squad has the character required to mount a promotion challenge.

The so-called purists moaned about our style of play when Bassett and Warnock were in charge, but when you win, it doesn't matter. I saw those teams play some great football and with the right attitude but there were times when I also saw some horrible ugly games that we lost. We are allegedly trying to play 'proper' football now but the football in most games this season (and the last 2 seasons for that matter) has been no better than the horrible ugly games that I watched under Bassett and Warnock - a poor performance is a poor performance no matter how you play.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Personally I think we should implement whatever style of play it takes with the players available to get promoted and worry about style later. Unfortunately, I don't think this current squad has the character required to mount a promotion challenge.

The so-called purists moaned about our style of play when Bassett and Warnock were in charge, but when you win, it doesn't matter. I saw those teams play some great football and with the right attitude but there were times when I also saw some horrible ugly games that we lost. We are allegedly trying to play 'proper' football now but the football in most games this season (and the last 2 seasons for that matter) has been no better than the horrible ugly games that I watched under Bassett and Warnock - a poor performance is a poor performance no matter how you play.

I'm now awaiting Pinchy's riposte

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Since I’ve been on this forum and before that on bladesmad, I have generally been of the view that we need to execute a long term plan to implement a footballing strategy. Bringing in young players with skill and pace. Playing a style of football that is attractive and progressive. Basically, a sort of Swansea model. This idea started for me around the time Speed was appointed and it seemed the club decided to have another go at it when they appointed Weir. Clough was another who player 4231 with the ball largely on the floor with smaller technical players. Now Adkins still likes to get it down and play but tends to prefer 442. I’ve often called for patience and the need for us to make this work as a club and have some continuity in our style but as we head for another dreadful season with the lane atmosphere the worst I can remember, with the team playing in an alien kit and the players on the pitch looking like they can’t be arsed with anything but their playboy lifestyle, I find myself questioning whether this can work for us as a club.

I watch the old videos of the Bassett and Warnock days and remember with a lump in my throat the swell of pride I felt at times supporting those sides and my perseverance with playing a certain way and sticking to certain principles is wavering. I wonder if the only way we can ever really create that special Sheffield United feeling is to play the “up and at em” game in the red and white stripes with shit triers willing to die for the cause. Maybe someone needs to have a word with me about the importance of being patient and sticking with the approach and letting Adkins build a team that can really excel playing the “right way”. Anybody else feeling that they’d give owt now to watch some average to shit footballers try their hearts out for the club like Booker, Rogers, Monty, Kozluk, Morgs, Geary, Cresswell etc.?

I think that people have been brainwashed to a certain extent into thinking that you either have to play "the right way" or "hoofball".
The truth has always been that under Bassett and Warnock we usually played an effective, direct game but mixed in amongst the total effort and high work-rate there were players with genuine skill and flair.
Were Deane, Agana and Hodges really "average to shit footballers"? Were Ndlovu, Tonge and Brown all just "shit triers"?

With the best Bassett and Warnock teams you could at least see what the game plan was.
You could see that at frequent intervals they were going to get the ball in the box, create chances and score goals.
Sometimes this would be route one long ball to Deane's/Shipperley's head for the flick on.
Sometimes it might be a Deane/Hodges/Ndlovu/Agana/Brown piece of trickery and skill to create the chance?
But chances they did create and even if the opposition knew exactly what was coming, they still couldn't easily stop it.

You knew that Bassett/Warnock team's would usually be organised and resolute in defence
That they would get stuck in, put their bodies on the line and just "kick it, head it, clear it" where necessary.
You knew that if one of the team was fouled or threatened, his mates would be right there with him.

So in answer to the original question. Do I want to see Adkins carry on playing "the right way"? Or the Bassett/Warnock way?
The Bassett/Warnock way every time for me please.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think that people have been brainwashed to a certain extent into thinking that you either have to play "the right way" or "hoofball".
The truth has always been that under Bassett and Warnock we usually played an effective, direct game but mixed in amongst the total effort and high work-rate there were players with genuine skill and flair.
Were Deane, Agana and Hodges really "average to shit footballers"? Were Ndlovu, Tonge and Brown all just "shit triers"?

With the best Bassett and Warnock teams you could at least see what the game plan was.
You could see that at frequent intervals they were going to get the ball in the box, create chances and score goals.
Sometimes this would be route one long ball to Deane's/Shipperley's head for the flick on.
Sometimes it might be a Deane/Hodges/Ndlovu/Agana/Brown piece of trickery and skill to create the chance?
But chances they did create and even if the opposition knew exactly what was coming, they still couldn't easily stop it.

You knew that Bassett/Warnock team's would usually be organised and resolute in defence
That they would get stuck in, put their bodies on the line and just "kick it, head it, clear it" where necessary.
You knew that if one of the team was fouled or threatened, his mates would be right there with him.

So in answer to the original question. Do I want to see Adkins carry on playing "the right way"? Or the Bassett/Warnock way?
The Bassett/Warnock way every time for me please.

What about a step further? What if it was Blackwell/Megson/Pulis/Allardyce style football? Would you take that?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Never given a shit about seeing a million pretty passes being strung together to zero effect.
If it takes 'long and ugly', that's exactly what we need to do. The only "entertainment" I want to see is the ball flying into the oppositions goal by any means necessary.

 

[stringjunior]

Substance over style every time.

And should a bit of style happen our way in the process, that's fine too

 

[Woodwardfan]

There's a fine line between "running the channels" and "hoofball".

There's a fine line between "controlled, progressive football" and "tippy tappy football going nowhere but sideways and back".

Whichever style we play it has to suit the group of players at the time.

Clough never put a balanced squad together to man his chosen style, if indeed he ever chose a style, couldn't see one if he did.

Adkins is all over the place and hasn't matched his signings to a style or a style to his group of players.

"Tippy tappy football" played by a bad team often ends up always in possession of clumsy defenders who end up hoofing it upfield when all other options dry up.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

What about a step further? What if it was Blackwell/Megson/Pulis/Allardyce style football? Would you take that?

I would take any style of football necessary to get us out of this division initially.
In the division above, I would also expect a bit more skill, quality and entertainment value (which the best Bassett and Warnock teams provided).
In the Premier League, I would again take any style of football necessary to survive in the short-term and get established.

Allardyce and Pulis? I would snatch your hand off.
Blackwell. Nothing against him but we've been there and done that. A poor man's Warnock.
Megson. I wouldn't touch him with a shitty bargepole.

 

[derryblade]

Winning football games is all that matters, how that is achieved is of secondary importance IMO.

 

[BushBlade]

There's a fine line between "running the channels" and "hoofball".

There's a fine line between "controlled, progressive football" and "tippy tappy football going nowhere but sideways and back".

Whichever style we play it has to suit the group of players at the time.

Clough never put a balanced squad together to man his chosen style, if indeed he ever chose a style, couldn't see one if he did.

Adkins is all over the place and hasn't matched his signings to a style or a style to his group of players.

"Tippy tappy football" played by a bad team often ends up always in possession of clumsy defenders who end up hoofing it upfield when all other options dry up.

One of the things guaranteed to make me angry is watching a team try to play from the back, get pressured, knock it around the back while under more pressure and then pass it back to the keeper for him to then launch it, usually immediately returning possession to the opposition because their defence is now set and they outnumber us in the area the ball is being kicked to.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

I would take the Stoke route - do whatever it takes to get promoted, then over time, when you are established slowly start improving the style of play.

Its very easy to say "we're doing a Swansea etc."...but no club is the same. Swansea City had zero expectation. They had bottomed out, never had any real history other than a brief stint in the top flight in the 80's. Swansea pretty much started from scratch. No matter what style they played, as long as they were moving up it couldn't get much worse than almost going bankrupt and dropping out of the football league. They went from tiny crowds and a shit stadium, finishing 91st, to where they are now.

At this point I don't care what style we play, I just want to WIN and to get back to the upper half of the Championship with a chance of getting back to the Premier League.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I'm now awaiting Pinchy's riposte

Like Pinchy, I'm all for playing attractive beautiful football, but you need the right players to execute it successfully and I'm afraid we don't have those players.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I would take any style of football necessary to get us out of this division initially.
In the division above, I would also expect a bit more skill, quality and entertainment value (which the best Bassett and Warnock teams provided).
In the Premier League, I would again take any style of football necessary to survive in the short-term and get established.

Allardyce and Pulis? I would snatch your hand off.
Blackwell. Nothing against him but we've been there and done that. A poor man's Warnock.
Megson. I wouldn't touch him with a shitty bargepole.

Triple like! Absofuckinglutely 100%

 

[HighfieldBlade]

I'd love to see some grit and determination from our current players, likes what Gannon, Bryson, Bradshaw (amongst others) used to provide in years gone by. These guys weren't the most skillful by modern standards but they gave it their all, week in week out. Perhaps the passage of time has clouded my judgement but that's how I remember them.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Since I’ve been on this forum and before that on bladesmad, I have generally been of the view that we need to execute a long term plan to implement a footballing strategy. Bringing in young players with skill and pace. Playing a style of football that is attractive and progressive. Basically, a sort of Swansea model. This idea started for me around the time Speed was appointed and it seemed the club decided to have another go at it when they appointed Weir. Clough was another who player 4231 with the ball largely on the floor with smaller technical players. Now Adkins still likes to get it down and play but tends to prefer 442. I’ve often called for patience and the need for us to make this work as a club and have some continuity in our style but as we head for another dreadful season with the lane atmosphere the worst I can remember, with the team playing in an alien kit and the players on the pitch looking like they can’t be arsed with anything but their playboy lifestyle, I find myself questioning whether this can work for us as a club.


I watch the old videos of the Bassett and Warnock days and remember with a lump in my throat the swell of pride I felt at times supporting those sides and my perseverance with playing a certain way and sticking to certain principles is wavering. I wonder if the only way we can ever really create that special Sheffield United feeling is to play the “up and at em” game in the red and white stripes with shit triers willing to die for the cause. Maybe someone needs to have a word with me about the importance of being patient and sticking with the approach and letting Adkins build a team that can really excel playing the “right way”. Anybody else feeling that they’d give owt now to watch some average to shit footballers try their hearts out for the club like Booker, Rogers, Monty, Kozluk, Morgs, Geary, Cresswell etc.?

BTW I thought the OP title was the name of the next Foo Fighters album

 

[alcoblade]

One of the things guaranteed to make me angry is watching a team try to play from the back, get pressured, knock it around the back while under more pressure and then pass it back to the keeper for him to then launch it, usually immediately returning possession to the opposition because their defence is now set and they outnumber us in the area the ball is being kicked to.

Where've you seen that, like?

UTB