sparky.

[wizadry]

If Nigel deserved the NGE acronym, so does MM I'm afraid. Get rid.

On what basis? Clough has had how many seasons in management, where as McNulty has had no where near, give him a chance eh, his stats for us aren't too shabby.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

The kid's got an enormous amount to learn. Clough knows a bit about playing up front. He wanted the lad to play better. What's wrong with that? Has McN watched Matt Done? Look and learn.

I believe from memory Mcnulty scored 13 goals (and no penalties?) - if he had a full season ,and been constantly match fit, he would have got at least 20, possibly 25 and with a decent midfield that knew what runs he was going to make, could have looked at 30.

All if's and buts......but considering his stop start season, was treated as harshly as I have seen by any manager. Clough got the centre halves wrong, he was also wrong with Mcnulty.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

I believe from memory Mcnulty scored 13 goals (and no penalties?) - if he had a full season ,and been constantly match fit, he would have got at least 20, possibly 25 and with a decent midfield that knew what runs he was going to make, could have looked at 30.

All if's and buts......but considering his stop start season, was treated as harshly as I have seen by any manager. Clough got the centre halves wrong, he was also wrong with Mcnulty.

UTB

Totally agree and how this can be questionable is beyond me, a good first season without a good run of games.

 

[Houso]

On what basis? Clough has had how many seasons in management, where as McNulty has had no where near, give him a chance eh, his stats for us aren't too shabby.

For me Wiz he's just another Shaun Miller. He'll try hard, occasionally get into good positions to score, but ultimately lacks the consistency and ability to ever contribute enough to a promotion chasing side.

 

[wizadry]

For me Wiz he's just another Shaun Miller. He'll try hard, occasionally get into good positions to score, but ultimately lacks the consistency and ability to ever contribute enough to a promotion chasing side.

I totally disagree mate but fair enough. You've made your mind up along with others and it looks like there's no changing it so i don't think we can go anywhere with this. McNultys' finishing this season at times has been sublime, i must be missing something here on what a striker is meant to do.

 

[Pinchy]

SeriouslyE="Pinchy, post: 766973, member: 2215"]Apparently the poor darlings are very sensitive these days. They have human rights, you know.

It is quite intolerable for well paid professional sportsman to have their performance analysed critically by their manager. It upsets them. Did you not hear that Louis Reed was unhappy? It showed in his play, apparently. Poor lamb. As for McNulty; How dare the manager suggest that he stops going through the motions and actually joins in the game now and then.

Seriously Pinchy give it a rest you are beginning to sound a lot like the erstwhile poster Len De Goey[/QUOTE]

Pele forbid. Please call me a cunt or something. Anything but that.....

 

[sheepbridge]

For me the OP was referencing the over reaction to McNulty that came from Clough for some bizarre reason. No other player was singled out some much, even after very poor performances. Higdon never moved, but not a word was said. Howard and McEverley made numerous costly mistakes, but again maybe a small grumble from Clough if anything at all. For me it's to do with consistency if nothing else.

NcNulty has shown he can score, and score some very good, calm finishes, with a very good strike rate. More than any other striker for a number of years. He isn't suited to playing the loan striker granted, but then neither have a lot of very good goal scorers.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Seriously Pinchy give it a rest you are beginning to sound a lot like the erstwhile poster Len De Goey

Pele forbid. Please call me a cunt or something. Anything but that.....[/QUOTE]

Seriously Pinchy, you are dangerously close to becoming a similar sort of parody figure.

You seem a very angry person these days. Is everything ok, owd love?

 

[super_pig]

Apparently the poor darlings are very sensitive these days. They have human rights, you know.
It is quite intolerable for well paid professional sportsman to have their performance analysed critically by their manager. It upsets them. Did you not hear that Louis Reed was unhappy? It showed in his play, apparently. Poor lamb. As for McNulty; How dare the manager suggest that he stops going through the motions and actually joins in the game now and then.

simply poor man management in any sphere.. nothing to do with human rights

 

[boo radley]

I believe from memory Mcnulty scored 13 goals (and no penalties?) - if he had a full season ,and been constantly match fit, he would have got at least 20, possibly 25 and with a decent midfield that knew what runs he was going to make, could have looked at 30.

All if's and buts......but considering his stop start season, was treated as harshly as I have seen by any manager. Clough got the centre halves wrong, he was also wrong with Mcnulty.

UTB

It was not the midfield failing to see his runs it was MM not making them in the first place. His work rate and ability to stay switched on is pathetic. Twice I saw him chase back and win a ball. Once whilst doing that he won a throw of the opposition , he then failed asHarris picked up the ball quickly to make the run and get the ball straight back. He would've been totally in the clear with no opposition player within 50 yards of him.
He'd won the ball and that was his job done!
It is that type of thing that is so frustrating about him. He wants it on a plate and the knife and fork placed in his hands.
The even more frustrating thing about him is he seems to be regressing instead of developing and that is probably why Clough was sofrustrated with him.

 

[sheffielder]

9 goals in 11 league starts with loads of sub appearances chucked in, never had a straight run of games, i should think you aren't writing him off. If he played all the games this season from the start he would get 25 plus goals easily, there aren't many players who score anywhere near 30 goals in any league, give the lad a chance. He's also only 22 years old.

And your cheap pop at our 17 year old in Reed is just pathetic mate.

Don't bother with him mate. If he's not having a pop at the clubs youngsters, he's trying to be smart by slagging off the fans. Grade A if you ask me.

 

[sheffielder]

9 goals in 11 league starts with loads of sub appearances chucked in, never had a straight run of games, i should think you aren't writing him off. If he played all the games this season from the start he would get 25 plus goals easily, there aren't many players who score anywhere near 30 goals in any league, give the lad a chance. He's also only 22 years old.

And your cheap pop at our 17 year old in Reed is just pathetic mate.

Don't bother with him mate. If he's not having a pop at the clubs youngsters, he's trying to be smart by slagging off the fans. Grade A if you ask me.

 

[super_pig]

The even more frustrating thing about him is he seems to be regressing instead of developing and that is probably why Clough was sofrustrated with him.

all good points boo.. but.. openly criticising him like that was really poor management IMO

 

[sitwell]

After he was criticised he actually came back and played better ,he rarely has 2 good performances in a row after being praised. Don't forget Clough bought ,he may well have been tossing off in Scottish football and getting chinned in nightclubs if it wasn't for Clough.
Players need to take criticism along with the plaudits ,they are so molly coddled these days ,its a joke.
the man utd documentary about the class of 92 brought it up about initiations not being allowed anymore and being worse for it. They brought players together and created a bond and a togetherness ,I know both my boys had them in the military and it did them good ,although not at the time (one copped for flaming arseholes) but created trust and harmony creating a better team spirit. The only ones against this type of thing are the ones who will never experience it but still feel they know best.

 

[AlienBlade]

There was fuck all wrong with McNultys' goals to games ratio in a team that created next to fuck all.

the problem was that he wasnt a "starter" in the same vein that Peschi was.... look at his goals to games ratio for games he started.... and then look at the goals to games ratio for games he came off the bench.... yet Clough was criticised for playing him from the start.... (despite it clearly not being a strong point of McNulty's at the moment, but he is a young lad still learning his trade.... when criticised he was usually done so contructively not just "and he was shit" it was I thought he could have run the channels more, or he needs to learn to not to drift off side etc.... (which all fans were also berating him for)

 

[AlienBlade]

Bully boys gone pal,now you can play without the weight of the world on your shoulders and not get the scapegoat treatment in the post match interview.
Start running the channels mate,you'll be fine.

so just the 18,000 or so "bully boys" who boo and jeer to get rid of now... wouldnt want them upsetting him now....

after all you have stated one such critisism Clough had of Mcnulty... thus you yourself must be a "bully boy"

 

[super_pig]

the problem was that he wasnt a "starter" in the same vein that Peschi was.... look at his goals to games ratio for games he started.... and then look at the goals to games ratio for games he came off the bench.... yet Clough was criticised for playing him from the start.... (despite it clearly not being a strong point of McNulty's at the moment, but he is a young lad still learning his trade.... when criticised he was usually done so contructively not just "and he was shit" it was I thought he could have run the channels more, or he needs to learn to not to drift off side etc.... (which all fans were also berating him for)

he could have constructively criticised 90 percent of the team most weeks but chose to single out mcnulty every time. it was embarassing

 

[gavtheblade]

so just the 18,000 or so "bully boys" who boo and jeer to get rid of now... wouldnt want them upsetting him now....

after all you have stated one such critisism Clough had of Mcnulty... thus you yourself must be a "bully boy"

What sort of a criticism is that?
Bully boy I ain't,but I can be if you like Extra terrestrial.

 

[wizadry]

the problem was that he wasnt a "starter" in the same vein that Peschi was.... look at his goals to games ratio for games he started.... and then look at the goals to games ratio for games he came off the bench.... yet Clough was criticised for playing him from the start.... (despite it clearly not being a strong point of McNulty's at the moment, but he is a young lad still learning his trade.... when criticised he was usually done so contructively not just "and he was shit" it was I thought he could have run the channels more, or he needs to learn to not to drift off side etc.... (which all fans were also berating him for)

He blamed McNulty single handedly for some of our poor performances this season, never any of the players he's had at previous clubs, now i don't mind him criticising anyone aslong as he does it on a level playing field, plus it also needs to be constructive and kept indoors.

For me he lacks in the man management department to get the neccessary improvements to get teams promoted, i must stress i'm not an expert on this but this is my take on it on a public forum.

Ask yourself this one question, do you think his management this season has helped players (in general)or hindered them? My answer is hindered them, he has made them shit scared of making a single mistake and also made sure certain players knew they'd made a mistake. Him not taking any flack whatsoever and him not letting the players know that he's fully behind them in public, instead berating certain players in public, the main man been McNulty.

McNulty being offside a lot his a mixture of him not getting the pass in time or him being too eager, hopefully he will learn how to deal with this in time. You'd have thought he was static with how some go on here, take a look at his games again, he's far from static.

I don't care when he gets his goals whether that be from the bench or from the start, the fact of the matter is we created next to nothing this season for him and he has put some good chances away, some of what he made himself, some made by others but there is one thing i can guarentee, he didn't have many, if any, put on a plate for him as some have said. Again, take a look at his goals, some of them are classy goals. Lets make sure he runs the channels though eh and fuck putting that bag of air in the onion bag.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

It was not the midfield failing to see his runs it was MM not making them in the first place. His work rate and ability to stay switched on is pathetic. Twice I saw him chase back and win a ball. Once whilst doing that he won a throw of the opposition , he then failed asHarris picked up the ball quickly to make the run and get the ball straight back. He would've been totally in the clear with no opposition player within 50 yards of him.
He'd won the ball and that was his job done!
It is that type of thing that is so frustrating about him. He wants it on a plate and the knife and fork placed in his hands.
The even more frustrating thing about him is he seems to be regressing instead of developing and that is probably why Clough was sofrustrated with him.

Sorry Boo but I don't expect the ONE up front (ie MM) to do any running or chasing back.
Admittedly he is far from the finished article - think he finished out top scorer and a meagre amount of games.

The whole point I am trying to make with MM, is given MORE game time, in a sequence of games then he would have scored 20+ goals.
I also appreciated that Clough probably had MM best interests at heart, but we are still in this division and Clough did not solve centre half, and as I have posted before, would be a sackable offence in it's own right (fancy leaving us ALL season without proper centre backs) and his management of MM, was in my opinion and other lamentable. The only thing pathetic was Cloughs treatment of MM.

As for wanting it on a plate - so did Edwards. Take a look at all of MM goals this season - the majority are different, becuase he has a talent that needs nurturing, not critising week after week after week........

UTB

 

[boo radley]

Sorry Boo but I don't expect the ONE up front (ie MM) to do any running or chasing back.
Admittedly he is far from the finished article - think he finished out top scorer and a meagre amount of games.

The whole point I am trying to make with MM, is given MORE game time, in a sequence of games then he would have scored 20+ goals.
I also appreciated that Clough probably had MM best interests at heart, but we are still in this division and Clough did not solve centre half, and as I have posted before, would be a sackable offence in it's own right (fancy leaving us ALL season without proper centre backs) and his management of MM, was in my opinion and other lamentable. The only thing pathetic was Cloughs treatment of MM.

As for wanting it on a plate - so did Edwards. Take a look at all of MM goals this season - the majority are different, becuase he has a talent that needs nurturing, not critising week after week after week........

UTB

Just pointing out how a few saw him this season. Done also played as a lone striker many times and on those occasions ran and won the ball and for his time on the pitch doing that roll put 4 or 5 times as much work in as MM ever did.
If the new manager wants MM I hope the manager gets out of him what his potential may be. I want all our players to do well but just as many lost faith in the last manager I have lost faith in that players ability to progress.

 

[super_pig]

Just pointing out how a few saw him this season. Done also played as a lone striker many times and on those occasions ran and won the ball and for his time on the pitch doing that roll put 4 or 5 times as much work in as MM ever did.
If the new manager wants MM I hope the manager gets out of him what his potential may be. I want all our players to do well but just as many lost faith in the last manager I have lost faith in that players ability to progress.

yeah and he ended up on the bench with a mystery injury so that cloughys ex derby mate could play

 

[AlienBlade]

He blamed McNulty single handedly for some of our poor performances this season, never any of the players he's had at previous clubs, now i don't mind him criticising anyone aslong as he does it on a level playing field, plus it also needs to be constructive and kept indoors.

For me he lacks in the man management department to get the neccessary improvements to get teams promoted, i must stress i'm not an expert on this but this is my take on it on a public forum.

Ask yourself this one question, do you think his management this season has helped players (in general)or hindered them? My answer is hindered them, he has made them shit scared of making a single mistake and also made sure certain players knew they'd made a mistake. Him not taking any flack whatsoever and him not letting the players know that he's fully behind them in public, instead berating certain players in public, the main man been McNulty.

McNulty being offside a lot his a mixture of him not getting the pass in time or him being too eager, hopefully he will learn how to deal with this in time. You'd have thought he was static with how some go on here, take a look at his games again, he's far from static.

I don't care when he gets his goals whether that be from the bench or from the start, the fact of the matter is we created next to nothing this season for him and he has put some good chances away, some of what he made himself, some made by others but there is one thing i can guarentee, he didn't have many, if any, put on a plate for him as some have said. Again, take a look at his goals, some of them are classy goals. Lets make sure he runs the channels though eh and fuck putting that bag of air in the onion bag.

show me a link or an interview where he blamed him "single handedly" for some of our poor performaces, in each of the interviews he was either asked specific questions on players or mentioned other players (particular defenders making mistakes)

as for your question "do I think he management this season has helped" well considering that when he has publically and construtively critisised certain players they have played significantly better the next game (especially McNulty) when he has priased them they have seemingly taken their proverbial foot off the pedal...

as for running the channel.... I remember a certain Brian Deane trotting off to Leeds and he being told to "run the wings" he himself admits that it made him a far better player.

running the line (when done correctly) assists in two things, it allows you to pull the defenders down one side creating space in the middle for on coming attackers/midfielders and also gives a better outlet. thus allowing more chances for putting the "bag of air in the onion bag"

as for creating "next to nothing" considering I think we averaged around 10 chances per game.... hardly nothing... wasteful yes... but definitely not nothing, the goals strikers tend to score more of is all about being in the right place at the right time.. (unfortunately Mcnulty doesnt do this often enough and doesnt currently seem to have the stamina for 90minutes IMO.

I remember when Phil Brown (who I personally dont like) gave a rolicking team talk out on the pitch at half time.... many thought that was genius (as the team had been awful in the first half) cant get more public than that.... many managers single out players for both praise and critisism... and therefore if you expect to be praised publically by a manager when you do something good... you must also expect to be publically critisised when you are poor.

 

[AlienBlade]

yeah and he ended up on the bench with a mystery injury so that cloughys ex derby mate could play

just like the likes of Michael Owen and Jamie Ward, the type of player Done is you are going to get niggles...

do you think he should have played a player that was half fit? and risk him being out for longer? he also used his old Derby buddy Steve Davies sparingly too (given his foot injury) and other fellow Ex Derby buddy Ben Davies even more sparingly most of which was injury related.... but lets not let facts detract from a dig...

 

[AlienBlade]

What sort of a criticism is that?
Bully boy I ain't,but I can be if you like Extra terrestrial.

well for one you have stated that McNulty should run the line more... which is one of the terms Clough stated during an interview that was deemed "bullying"

I always find it interesting that those who tend to preach often fail to practice said preaching....

 

[AlienBlade]

he could have constructively criticised 90 percent of the team most weeks but chose to single out mcnulty every time. it was embarassing

thats a myth, often he singled out defenders or the midfielders for critisism (naming them in the process) he has also praised Mcnulty on several occassions.

 

[wizadry]

show me a link or an interview where he blamed him "single handedly" for some of our poor performaces, in each of the interviews he was either asked specific questions on players or mentioned other players (particular defenders making mistakes)

as for your question "do I think he management this season has helped" well considering that when he has publically and construtively critisised certain players they have played significantly better the next game (especially McNulty) when he has priased them they have seemingly taken their proverbial foot off the pedal...

as for running the channel.... I remember a certain Brian Deane trotting off to Leeds and he being told to "run the wings" he himself admits that it made him a far better player.

running the line (when done correctly) assists in two things, it allows you to pull the defenders down one side creating space in the middle for on coming attackers/midfielders and also gives a better outlet. thus allowing more chances for putting the "bag of air in the onion bag"

as for creating "next to nothing" considering I think we averaged around 10 chances per game.... hardly nothing... wasteful yes... but definitely not nothing, the goals strikers tend to score more of is all about being in the right place at the right time.. (unfortunately Mcnulty doesnt do this often enough and doesnt currently seem to have the stamina for 90minutes IMO.

I remember when Phil Brown (who I personally dont like) gave a rolicking team talk out on the pitch at half time.... many thought that was genius (as the team had been awful in the first half) cant get more public than that.... many managers single out players for both praise and critisism... and therefore if you expect to be praised publically by a manager when you do something good... you must also expect to be publically critisised when you are poor.

The only conclusion i can come to is that we have both heard different interviews, read different things and watched a different McNulty, apart from that I totally agree

 

[Barney]

There is no doubt Clough seeked out McNulty unfairly after every game where he didn't shine above
everybody else. Yet i never heard him once criticise his beloved Coutts and he was dreadful week in week out.

 

[super_pig]

show me a link or an interview where he blamed him "single handedly" for some of our poor performaces, in each of the interviews he was either asked specific questions on players or mentioned other players (particular defenders making mistakes)

as for your question "do I think he management this season has helped" well considering that when he has publically and construtively critisised certain players they have played significantly better the next game (especially McNulty) when he has priased them they have seemingly taken their proverbial foot off the pedal...

as for running the channel.... I remember a certain Brian Deane trotting off to Leeds and he being told to "run the wings" he himself admits that it made him a far better player.

running the line (when done correctly) assists in two things, it allows you to pull the defenders down one side creating space in the middle for on coming attackers/midfielders and also gives a better outlet. thus allowing more chances for putting the "bag of air in the onion bag"

as for creating "next to nothing" considering I think we averaged around 10 chances per game.... hardly nothing... wasteful yes... but definitely not nothing, the goals strikers tend to score more of is all about being in the right place at the right time.. (unfortunately Mcnulty doesnt do this often enough and doesnt currently seem to have the stamina for 90minutes IMO.

I remember when Phil Brown (who I personally dont like) gave a rolicking team talk out on the pitch at half time.... many thought that was genius (as the team had been awful in the first half) cant get more public than that.... many managers single out players for both praise and critisism... and therefore if you expect to be praised publically by a manager when you do something good... you must also expect to be publically critisised when you are poor.

all good points but i can't believe the motivational benefit of criticising someone to that extent to a potential audience of 2 million people..

 

[super_pig]

just like the likes of Michael Owen and Jamie Ward, the type of player Done is you are going to get niggles...

do you think he should have played a player that was half fit? and risk him being out for longer? he also used his old Derby buddy Steve Davies sparingly too (given his foot injury) and other fellow Ex Derby buddy Ben Davies even more sparingly most of which was injury related.... but lets not let facts detract from a dig...

indeed