Clough Poll

[secretchief]

a) Depends what you're measuring it against

b) Different season, different teams. We finished two places higher than the previous season.

c) His target or our target? Our target is always promotion, like most teams and most fail.

Again all facts. I'm also not sure on your definition of a windfall.

Well on the topic of definitions there is only one fact there, and it obscures more than it reveals - see b.

a) We are measuring it against the stated aim to achieve promotion, which is also point c). But on most criteria he hasn't succeeded either... hasn't built a strong team, style of play seems to have deteriorated etc...

b) Your reasoning is faulty because it actually backs my point. We finished higher than last season because of the ground we had to make up due to Weir. Based on his points per game total, if Clough had been in charge for the entirety of the first season we would have finished above where we finished this season. To claim we are on an upward curve because of the league table is disingenuous. The statistics show we have regressed.

Perhaps Clough really didn't believe he could get promotion. I'm sure he would have preferred not to have been the bookie's favourites. But make no mistake, he said at the start of the season the target was promotion, he said it repeatedly in January and February, even when it was slipping out of reach, and he only changed his tune when it became an impossibility. If you're suggesting that he didn't think we were capable of doing it right off the bat and had a more gradual progression in mind, then fair enough. But I want the manager of United to have a bit more confidence in his abilities than that, especially when he can outspend every other team.

Being able to spend millions in the transfer market in league one is most certainly a windfall and I can't imagine how anyone would think otherwise.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

In order to be a work in progress, there has to be progress. I saw no progress.

Where did we finish in the league in the past 2 seasons? One area where there is definitive progress however you try to spin it.
Sure he failed his objective, but there is proven progress. Question is, do you give him another opportunity to achieve the objective or start again?
I think most are in agreement that he should be given another opportunity, it's the sensible decision.

 

[secretchief]

Where did we finish in the league in the past 2 seasons?
One area where there is definitive progress.

Getting less points per game is progress how?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Getting less points per game is progress how?

It's all about where you finish, not where you start.

 

[secretchief]

It's all about where you finish, not where you start.

So Clough performed less well this season than he did the previous season and you're saying it doesn't matter because we ended up higher in the league, and that is progress.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

It's all about where you finish, not where you start.

True in a way but the (non) contribution of Mr. Weir last season kind of skews the "progressometer" I would have thought if you just compare season on season finishing positions.

 

[Toronto Blade]

With Weir contributing 4 points in the 2013-2014 season for 67 points and 71 this season not much difference considering the money spent and numbers of players brought in

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Where did we finish in the league in the past 2 seasons? One area where there is definitive progress however you try to spin it.
Sure he failed his objective, but there is proven progress. Question is, do you give him another opportunity to achieve the objective or start again?
I think most are in agreement that he should be given another opportunity, it's the sensible decision.

He has being given another opportunity . However Clough and the clubs success , all depends on doing our transfer business early . Failure to do this , and rebuilding / signings , as late as the JTW , will only provide us , with same again IMO. ( unfortunately )

UTB

 

[Bladebri]

You can only make progress if you move on

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

You can only make progress if you move on

For SUFC and Clough .

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

[QUOTE="Lane Ender, post: 761772, member: 12830]

Learn from your mistakes Clough that's all that needs to be said[/QUOTE]

He'll happily learn from his mistakes. The trouble is he doesn't think he made any.

UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

He'll happily learn from his mistakes. The trouble is he doesn't think he made any.

UTB

This used to be a often-voiced criticism of Warnock - "he always blames everyone else other than himself" and "never admits he's wrong". I wouldn't take a resistance/stubbornness to publicly admit his errors as a lack of recognition that he's made any. And after this season, where many of them have been visible to all, he can't but have seen them. The number of managers that will openly admit to making mistakes are minute.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So Clough performed less well this season than he did the previous season and you're saying it doesn't matter because we ended up higher in the league, and that is progress.

No, I would never say "less well".

 

[robbiez666]

I wonder if Morgan ever wandered into his office on a Monday and 'accidentally' left a glossy copy of Centre Back Weekly on Clough's desk.

 

[Maidenhead]

I wonder if Morgan ever wandered into his office on a Monday and 'accidentally' left a glossy copy of Centre Back Weekly on Clough's desk.

Sounds like a good read for a clogger like me. Where can I get it?

 

[robbiez666]

Sounds like a good read for a clogger like me. Where can I get it?

top shelf in your local Jet garage

 

[AlBlade]

Where did we finish in the league in the past 2 seasons? One area where there is definitive progress however you try to spin it.
Sure he failed his objective, but there is proven progress. Question is, do you give him another opportunity to achieve the objective or start again?
I think most are in agreement that he should be given another opportunity, it's the sensible decision.

Doesn't necessarily mean that we got better, it could be that other teams in the league got worse. Last season the sixth placed team had 74 points, so if the standard in League 1 hadn't dropped, we would once again have finished outside the playoffs.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Aunts, bollocks and Uncles.

 

[secretchief]

No, I would never say "less well".

But bearing in mind that he statistically, undeniably did...?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

But bearing in mind that he statistically, undeniably did...?

I disagree. I think I've been quite clear on this.

The only stat in regards of progress that counts is finishing higher in the league, and we did.

 

[Blade56]

I disagree. I think I've been quite clear on this.

The only stat in regards of progress that counts is finishing higher in the league, and we did.

We e achieved nowt this season and it's ending in yet more negative controversy for the club. Can things get any worse?......... Hell they can

 

[Pinchy]

Aunts, bollocks and Uncles.

Who needs logic or common sense?When you have the warm, comforting feeling of an agenda, anything goes....

 

[Mendi]

Clough looks like he staying. He needs to hit ground running Next Season or he will be gone.

 

[Lawrence]

We e achieved nowt this season and it's ending in yet more negative controversy for the club. Can things get any worse?......... Hell they can

Yer all we need now is a drugs bust!

 

[secretchief]

I disagree. I think I've been quite clear on this.

The only stat in regards of progress that counts is finishing higher in the league, and we did.

You are pretending not to understand so you can make a point.

If you have a personal conviction that Clough shouldn't be fired, or should have another chance, or whatever, that's fine. I accept it. Of course.

You are selectively choosing to count Weir's record as part of Clough's in the previous season so you can claim Clough has made progress. It's dishonest.

The issue is not whether Clough has made progress from Weir (he has), but whether Clough has improved on his own achievements last year. He hasn't.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

You are pretending not to understand so you can make a point.

If you have a personal conviction that Clough shouldn't be fired, or should have another chance, or whatever, that's fine. I accept it. Of course.

You are selectively choosing to count Weir's record as part of Clough's in the previous season so you can claim Clough has made progress. It's dishonest.

The issue is not whether Clough has made progress from Weir (he has), but whether Clough has improved on his own achievements last year. He hasn't.

It's an interesting point.
If Clough had taken over last season, got knocked out early in the cup and scraped together enough points to finish lower mid-table. Most fans would have said "job done, at least we didn't go down".

It's only because we went on that incredible run of 10 straight wins, that we shot up the table and reached the cup semi.

If you sack Clough now he would be effectively being punished for being great last season.

It's easy to forget how bad we actually were before Clough came in. One win in sixteen matches was it?

 

[metalblade]

If you sack Clough now he would be effectively being punished for being great last season.

What a ridiculous statement, you couldn't make it up .............................. oh hang on you did

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

This used to be a often-voiced criticism of Warnock - "he always blames everyone else other than himself" and "never admits he's wrong". I wouldn't take a resistance/stubbornness to publicly admit his errors as a lack of recognition that he's made any. And after this season, where many of them have been visible to all, he can't but have seen them. The number of managers that will openly admit to making mistakes are minute.

The majority of managers do not admit to mistakes in public , and why should they . The thing is , even in front of the board , i still feel Clough thinks he has got it all fine and dandy , in the rebuilding process for the raise of SUFC.

This season was a blip , not a disaster , the 2 seasons allocated should achieve the plan. - Brannigan.

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

What a ridiculous statement, you couldn't make it up .............................. oh hang on you did

Care to explain why you think it's ridiculous?
Rather than just posting stupid emoji.
It's a forum.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

It's an interesting point.
If Clough had taken over last season, got knocked out early in the cup and scraped together enough points to finish lower mid-table. Most fans would have said "job done, at least we didn't go down".

It's only because we went on that incredible run of 10 straight wins, that we shot up the table and reached the cup semi.

If you sack Clough now he would be effectively being punished for being great last season.

It's easy to forget how bad we actually were before Clough came in. One win in sixteen matches was it?

Sothall , there is a number of mitigating circumstances for Clough , which have no doubt be tabled by him , the same as us on the forum. The simple matter is they can all be packaged into one - Excuses.

UTB