Clough Poll

[HillmortonBlade]

Personally I am less than convinced by NC's long term suitability for Sheffield United Football Club. The best I could say is that he might take us up, equally it would not surprise me if he didn't. At the time of his appointment I believed and still believe he was the best we could have got and represented an improvement on Weir (hard not to be). Events have moved on and I have come to the conclusion that the club either give NC the year or get rid now. If we get rid we have to have someone "better" lined up. In financial terms the short term cheaper option is to keep him, whether this is true for the longer term very much depends on whether he delivers promotion. The longer he is here the more expensive it becomes to dig him, his staff and his purchases out.

I cannot see the merit of the "give him till xmas" or "the first 10 games" arguments because of the impact on the transfer budget and club finances. I doubt that anyone taking over mid-season would be entirely happy with the players brought in by NC (if he goes it will be because of inadequate results). In addition the likely resultant staffing changes will be incredibly disruptive so I think, if he gets to spend the summer transfer budget, it would be difficult for an incoming manager to effect too much change and another season would go by the by. And I want to see us out of this division next season more than anything. The irony is that the thing that NC messed up most (the spine of the side) may be the thing that saves him mid-season as I think he is going to have to spend the budget/hit the FFP ceiling to get the spine right (he needs 5 or 6 quality players GK, 2/3 CH's, CM, CF) - if he isn't got rid of during the next couple of weeks.

Hopefully, the situation will become clear very soon, before the better eligible transfer targets are snapped up. I believe a delay will prove costly to our promotion chances so my view is that the Board have a back him or sack him decision to make in the next 10 days or so. If JP had not made the comments he did then I would not be looking for some indication from the Board in respect of changes. But make those comments he did and so the issue is left hanging.

If the decision is to sack him we will do ourselves no favours if we end up in a hiatus whilst the replacement is sourced and appointed. Until there is a statement by the Board, or simply there are announcements that NC has signed player X and player Y, I don't believe we have certainty over the shape of the front office and footballing side next season. Personally I think there will be some changes somewhere (not necessarily the manager), mainly because of JP's comments before the playoffs.

It needs putting to rest so that the club can move forward.

UTB

Thank you Cyprus, youhave articulated my thoughts and saved me having to find the words for a post. Spot on.

 

[robbiez666]

Clough seems to be a manager whose style and outlook is more suited to keeping a team up than to getting promoted. Whilst we needed a manager to keep us up last season, we needed one to get us promoted this season. He doesn't strike me as someone (almost) guaranteed to take us up. No doubt, playing the same way net season with 4 more players in key positions would improve our points total, but I doubt it will likely to be enough, given his past history, for automatic promotion.

He seems very inefficient in terms of spend vs results. Sure, give him 2 or 3 years and he will probably take us up, but at what cost? The signings by the promoted teams cost far less and were far more effective. We don;t need stabilising, we need energising.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Personally I am less than convinced by NC's long term suitability for Sheffield United Football Club. The best I could say is that he might take us up, equally it would not surprise me if he didn't. At the time of his appointment I believed and still believe he was the best we could have got and represented an improvement on Weir (hard not to be). Events have moved on and I have come to the conclusion that the club either give NC the year or get rid now. If we get rid we have to have someone "better" lined up. In financial terms the short term cheaper option is to keep him, whether this is true for the longer term very much depends on whether he delivers promotion. The longer he is here the more expensive it becomes to dig him, his staff and his purchases out.

I cannot see the merit of the "give him till xmas" or "the first 10 games" arguments because of the impact on the transfer budget and club finances. I doubt that anyone taking over mid-season would be entirely happy with the players brought in by NC (if he goes it will be because of inadequate results). In addition the likely resultant staffing changes will be incredibly disruptive so I think, if he gets to spend the summer transfer budget, it would be difficult for an incoming manager to effect too much change and another season would go by the by. And I want to see us out of this division next season more than anything. The irony is that the thing that NC messed up most (the spine of the side) may be the thing that saves him mid-season as I think he is going to have to spend the budget/hit the FFP ceiling to get the spine right (he needs 5 or 6 quality players GK, 2/3 CH's, CM, CF) - if he isn't got rid of during the next couple of weeks.

Hopefully, the situation will become clear very soon, before the better eligible transfer targets are snapped up. I believe a delay will prove costly to our promotion chances so my view is that the Board have a back him or sack him decision to make in the next 10 days or so. If JP had not made the comments he did then I would not be looking for some indication from the Board in respect of changes. But make those comments he did and so the issue is left hanging.

If the decision is to sack him we will do ourselves no favours if we end up in a hiatus whilst the replacement is sourced and appointed. Until there is a statement by the Board, or simply there are announcements that NC has signed player X and player Y, I don't believe we have certainty over the shape of the front office and footballing side next season. Personally I think there will be some changes somewhere (not necessarily the manager), mainly because of JP's comments before the playoffs.

It needs putting to rest so that the club can move forward.

UTB

As Hillmorton said previously , a well balanced articulate post . We do need some form of statement ( not a vote of confidence ) on that Clough is moving forward , especially after JP statement . I now just don't go for this give him 10 games or up to Christmas . Clough is either in or out by the board , and if in , for the full season duration . If any circumstance for doubt , then sack him . Better to do it now , than try to cut your losses half way through next season.

Clough is making me nervous , and i am glad i don't sit on the board , or it was my decision , or even worst , my money.

He either stays or goes . If he goes am , a replacement is required pm. Its all about confidence .


UTB

 

[itsinyerblood]

I'm sorry, but from my perspective I think most fans who want Clough to go have put forward a great deal of considered thinking as to why Clough should go (poor transfers, dire playing style, lack of any real progress, lower points per game return, player fall outs, inability to select a consistent team, dreadful handling of the media, stubborn refusal to admit mistakes, etc. etc.). I would argue that those who want Clough to stay purely cite that sticking with a manager is always preferable (agree if the manager is any good) and that he will learn from this season and improve next season - however, where is the considered thinking that this will be the case, on what basis are we to believe Clough will learn his lessons and change?.

Clough has ended this campaign saying that we have made progress and we need to bring in 3-4 players, with the focus being on the centre halves.

At the end of the 2011/12 season Clough was Derby manager, fans were pissed off that they had only finished 12th, however, Clough stated that 12th was satisfactory, they had improved, and what they needed for the following season was more firepower. So to address the firepower issue Clough signed Conor Sammon, whose record at Wigan was played 32 scored 1 (his career average was less than a goal every 5 games). Unsurprisingly Sammon didn't get off to the best of starts, scoring 2 in 16, however Clough said he was happy because of his work rate (even keeping Nathan Tyson out of the starting 11 who had a better strike rate). Sammon finished the season with 9 goals from 47 appearances. At the end of the season Derby finished 10th, Clough again citing progress and knowing what he needed to do to improve the squad however in September the following season he was sacked with Derby in 14th - the club appointed McLaren and Derby finished 3rd.

In 5 seasons under Clough, Derby finished no higher that 10th, if league position is the only barometer of success (as some have claimed) is this successful when another manager came in and achieved 3rd place instantly? So it must follow that it isn't always the case that sticking with a manager is always preferable.

My opinion is that I don't see anything in NC's time at Sheffield United, or at any of his previous clubs, to indicate that he does learn from his mistakes; or that when he identifies a problem he does anything to address it. As for who could replace NC, previous posters have listed potential candidates (Adkins, Lambert, Wharbuton, Evans, etc) all of whom come with baggage, and the pro's and cons of each are discussed in other threads however, every single one of them has a track record of getting teams promoted from League 1.

The inference in your first paragraph that it would be a good idea to throw my own comment about a lack of considered thinking back at me would be applicable if only it wasn't so selective. I've never once suggested that Clough will learn, thereby validating another season as our manager. My thoughts are that as disappointing as this season has been we might as well go forward with what we have for reasons that, for myself at least, make sense. A new manager will possibly want wholesale changes, players out and in, as well as backroom staff, so a good part of a season dedicated to this aspect of shaping the team in his vision. All the while this is being constructed results might be up and down, so would those opposed to Clough be any more patient than they're currently showing? Nothing leads me to believe this would be the case. If Clough fails next year then no doubt he'll be fired. I just wonder why posters sometimes clamour for patience with certain players, but never with managers. Just an opinion, but then the wide range of views that appear on a forum cover a multitude of views and suggestions.

Clough has made mistakes, but then most managers do. You name one, you might as well name several of the most venerable managers who've worked in English football. Alex Ferguson has made good signings and poor signings, a man lauded as one of the managerial greats. With the benefit of hindsight, Ferguson needed time to adjust from the world of Scottish football to the demands of the English game, and if I recall it took him approximately 6 seasons for him and Man Utd to become a good fit. Now please don't think I'm comparing Clough with Ferguson, but what I am stating is that memories tend to work in the moment, with no thought given to allowing time and patience an opportunity to see how things pan out. You don't fancy being patient? Your call of course. I just happen to lean toward allowing Clough enough time to see if he has it within him to adjust and improve. I agree that several of his signings were poor, but I hope he'll accept this was the case and realise that he made mistakes. Flipping that over, it was Clough who decided the little known Done was worth signing, and at the time many posters decried this signing as 'typical' of Clough, whatever that was meant to infer. Would those same posters now wish Done to take a back seat, or has Done's stature grown as memory of that initial judgement has shrunk to the point of invisibility?

I also wonder if there's one of those sly bits of written trickery at work. Stating that in Clough's time at any of his previous clubs he hasn't learnt from his mistakes, perhaps you could inform me of the mistakes Clough made while working as manager of Burton? You clearly know what these are so I'd appreciate learning what these mistakes were. I think that chinese whispers becomes the dominant form of dissemination that sticks where football is concerned, so a few carefully chosen repetitions and before we know it a rumour has entered football folklore as the stuff made of unarguable fact.

If Clough isn't the man to take SUFC forward then I'll not wave a flag begging for leniency on his behalf. But if, by the time we're well into next season, we don't appear to have moved forward it should be clear that this relationship is teetering on the brink. Once the season begins I'm hoping we'll hit the ground running, just as I'm sure you are. I doubt our hopes for United are that different, but maybe where we do differ is in allowing our manager time to do what we hired him to do. If we'd ended this season in mid-table or lower then I could understand the nature of some of the criticisms that have been published, but we didn't. It may not have been the happy conclusion we all hoped for, but up until the end of the season we were in with a shout of reaching the play-off final.

I can't answer the comment about a manager finishing the season in 3rd position, It wasn't my comment so I don't feel any need to respond one way or the other about this. Amongst questions posed towards myself there are a variety of comments from other posters who remain unmentioned, this being one example. It's also worth citing that if you choose to talk of Clough's time at Derby, please offer a balanced perspective, noticeably the fact that Clough was told by Derby's board to work under stringent cost savings with a reliance on youth players. Strange how that never slipped into your post?

 

[AlBlade]

The inference in your first paragraph that it would be a good idea to throw my own comment about a lack of considered thinking back at me would be applicable if only it wasn't so selective. I've never once suggested that Clough will learn, thereby validating another season as our manager. My thoughts are that as disappointing as this season has been we might as well go forward with what we have for reasons that, for myself at least, make sense. A new manager will possibly want wholesale changes, players out and in, as well as backroom staff, so a good part of a season dedicated to this aspect of shaping the team in his vision. All the while this is being constructed results might be up and down, so would those opposed to Clough be any more patient than they're currently showing? Nothing leads me to believe this would be the case. If Clough fails next year then no doubt he'll be fired. I just wonder why posters sometimes clamour for patience with certain players, but never with managers. Just an opinion, but then the wide range of views that appear on a forum cover a multitude of views and suggestions.

Clough has made mistakes, but then most managers do. You name one, you might as well name several of the most venerable managers who've worked in English football. Alex Ferguson has made good signings and poor signings, a man lauded as one of the managerial greats. With the benefit of hindsight, Ferguson needed time to adjust from the world of Scottish football to the demands of the English game, and if I recall it took him approximately 6 seasons for him and Man Utd to become a good fit. Now please don't think I'm comparing Clough with Ferguson, but what I am stating is that memories tend to work in the moment, with no thought given to allowing time and patience an opportunity to see how things pan out. You don't fancy being patient? Your call of course. I just happen to lean toward allowing Clough enough time to see if he has it within him to adjust and improve. I agree that several of his signings were poor, but I hope he'll accept this was the case and realise that he made mistakes. Flipping that over, it was Clough who decided the little known Done was worth signing, and at the time many posters decried this signing as 'typical' of Clough, whatever that was meant to infer. Would those same posters now wish Done to take a back seat, or has Done's stature grown as memory of that initial judgement has shrunk to the point of invisibility?

I also wonder if there's one of those sly bits of written trickery at work. Stating that in Clough's time at any of his previous clubs he hasn't learnt from his mistakes, perhaps you could inform me of the mistakes Clough made while working as manager of Burton? You clearly know what these are so I'd appreciate learning what these mistakes were. I think that chinese whispers becomes the dominant form of dissemination that sticks where football is concerned, so a few carefully chosen repetitions and before we know it a rumour has entered football folklore as the stuff made of unarguable fact.

If Clough isn't the man to take SUFC forward then I'll not wave a flag begging for leniency on his behalf. But if, by the time we're well into next season, we don't appear to have moved forward it should be clear that this relationship is teetering on the brink. Once the season begins I'm hoping we'll hit the ground running, just as I'm sure you are. I doubt our hopes for United are that different, but maybe where we do differ is in allowing our manager time to do what we hired him to do. If we'd ended this season in mid-table or lower then I could understand the nature of some of the criticisms that have been published, but we didn't. It may not have been the happy conclusion we all hoped for, but up until the end of the season we were in with a shout of reaching the play-off final.

I can't answer the comment about a manager finishing the season in 3rd position, It wasn't my comment so I don't feel any need to respond one way or the other about this. Amongst questions posed towards myself there are a variety of comments from other posters who remain unmentioned, this being one example. It's also worth citing that if you choose to talk of Clough's time at Derby, please offer a balanced perspective, noticeably the fact that Clough was told by Derby's board to work under stringent cost savings with a reliance on youth players. Strange how that never slipped into your post?

A long and articulate post, however, I don't think the final point regarding Clough being told to work under stringent cost savings and reliance on youth players at Derby, has any relevance to my main point about Clough not learning from his mistakes, and saying one thing at the end of a season (we need more firepower) then acting inconsistently with this. It wasn't stringent cost savings and working with the youth that led him to sign a striker for £1.2 million (after stating he needs more fire power) who had scored once in 32 games.

I agree all mangers make mistakes (as do players) however, my opinion is that Clough has made too many mistakes this season, and mistakes that I would not expect a professional manger to make - I don't recall Alex Ferguson ever being in a situation when he didn't have any centre halves at the club who he thought worthy of selection.

 

[JohnDenver]

I don't recall Alex Ferguson ever being in a situation when he didn't have any centre halves at the club who he thought worthy of selection.

Jones + Smalling = Fergie retirement.

 

[AlBlade]

Jones + Smalling = Fergie retirement.

Hopefully McEverly + Alcock = Clough retirement

 

[itsinyerblood]

A long and articulate post, however, I don't think the final point regarding Clough being told to work under stringent cost savings and reliance on youth players at Derby, has any relevance to my main point about Clough not learning from his mistakes, and saying one thing at the end of a season (we need more firepower) then acting inconsistently with this. It wasn't stringent cost savings and working with the youth that led him to sign a striker for £1.2 million (after stating he needs more fire power) who had scored once in 32 games.

I agree all mangers make mistakes (as do players) however, my opinion is that Clough has made too many mistakes this season, and mistakes that I would not expect a professional manger to make - I don't recall Alex Ferguson ever being in a situation when he didn't have any centre halves at the club who he thought worthy of selection.

As I wrote, I wasn't comparing Clough with Ferguson. Two very different personalities and I'll judge our man on his merits or lack of them, but.....poor judgement did play it's part in Fergie hastening the departure of Stam, a monumental center half that MU failed to replace until the pairing of Vidic and Ferdinand steadied their ship. Sometimes even the most highly recognised allows personal issues to cloud their judgement.

Whether you feel Clough being told he must make savings has a bearing on his ability to perform is pertinent, I happen to think that any and everything that acts positively or negatively warrants commenting on. Yes, spending over a million on someone who is meant to score (I assume that CS's reputation was that of someone who could score?) wasn't the brightest bit of business, but haven't most managers cocked up at some point? It's not a case of turning a blind eye to Clough and his transfer record, but my preference is to hold him to account when I feel he's been allowed to do things the way he feels makes sense. Of course, the anti-NCists will jump on that, but I don't honestly care. Next season will be Clough's most testing managerial moment, and I think it's counter-productive to go on and on and.....about Clough's past (by the way, what was Clough's record at Burton? Was it error strewn, or merely a typical manager's job done to the best of his ability?) or his present. By all means criticise, but for those who can't differentiate between criticism and turning something into a personal and abusive grudge, I think they'll be the posters who seem happiest when they've something to carp about.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

a) We are measuring it against the stated aim to achieve promotion, which is also point c). But on most criteria he hasn't succeeded either... hasn't built a strong team, style of play seems to have deteriorated etc...

He's failed to win promotion yes, which seemed to be the club's aim. I genuinely don't feel it was his to get it this season. He appeared to be trying to lower expectations right from the start. The rest of the above is subjective.

b) Your reasoning is faulty because it actually backs my point. We finished higher than last season because of the ground we had to make up due to Weir. Based on his points per game total, if Clough had been in charge for the entirety of the first season we would have finished above where we finished this season. To claim we are on an upward curve because of the league table is disingenuous. The statistics show we have regressed.

Extrapolating results as an indication of a full season is always a complete nonsense. Had he been there a full season the circumstances would have been completely different. Any team that needs to string together results quickly to save itself always has accelerated form and a surge of confidence. Often one that could not be sustained over 46 games. You're using statistics that don't exist as a means of backing up your point.

Perhaps Clough really didn't believe he could get promotion. I'm sure he would have preferred not to have been the bookie's favourites. But make no mistake, he said at the start of the season the target was promotion, he said it repeatedly in January and February, even when it was slipping out of reach, and he only changed his tune when it became an impossibility.

He also said in August that he couldn't understand why we were bookies favourites and didn't agree, suggesting he saw us as a progressive team. I'm afraid you're part of the popular culture of sacking a manager the minute he doesn't quite achieve a target. That's why it's a merry-go-round.

But I want the manager of United to have a bit more confidence in his abilities than that, especially when he can outspend every other team.

Every other team? You think we spent more than Bristol City or Preston? Ok then.

 

[secretchief]

Hi Patrick

a) if the board set his aims (promotion), then they become his aims, because he agrees to them. If he didn't think it was achievable he wouldn't - or shouldn't - agree to them.

b) i) I'm not extrapolating over a full season in order to imagine a different counterfactual season where he was in charge for all of it. I'm only counting the games he was in charge, which shows his points per game ratio was higher in 13/14, which gives the lie to the suggestion that we are on an upward curve. If you drew that curve on a graph it wouldn't go up at the same rate. If I've missed your point, and you're saying he's an improvement on Weir, then of course that is fair, if incontrovertible, comment.

ii) We didn't benefit from accelerated form when Clough came in. We got 17 points from 14, which wouldn't have saved us had it not picked up (credit where it's due)

c) I don't advocate sacking managers when they don't achieve their targets per se. I only advocate sacking them when I'm convinced that they have taken us as far as they are capable of doing, which I think Clough has. You need 90+ goals to get out of this division. I don't think that's achievable with Clough's mindset and tactics, and that is before factoring the bizarre recruitment, routine mistakes, and personality clashes in. Actually I don't really care about his personality, although I wish he was less defensive. But I think this season has clearly demonstrated that Clough's sides tend not to win convincingly or know how to punish teams, and that's crucial in this division.

d) As it happens I do think we spend more than Bristol City and Preston and I'm confused as to why you would think we didn't. Even if we speculate that the Harry and Brayford money cancelled each other out, there was still vast over-recruitment, including what must have been expensive loans.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The only doubt I have about NC being a liability to SUFC is the Ched factor.

Were his hands tied?
Was he told he had to take CE on release?
Were transfer funds short of buying a striker cause we had CH?

Nah, I'm fishing for reasons, you're right there's only excuses

Before conviction Ched could easily have been moved on for a £2M+ package and no doubt would have been.
This would have lead to thread after thread about the same old lack of ambition by the board and all the Harry stuff about having to let a player leave would have happened earlier.

As a manager he could have got said £2M+ player for free and whilst managing in the 3rd division, it really was a no brainer from a footballing point to try to re-sign him.

The shit storm wasn't envisaged to be as bad as it turned out to be. That's a different story.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Hi Patrick

a) if the board set his aims (promotion), then they become his aims, because he agrees to them. If he didn't think it was achievable he wouldn't - or shouldn't - agree to them.

b) i) I'm not extrapolating over a full season in order to imagine a different counterfactual season where he was in charge for all of it. I'm only counting the games he was in charge, which shows his points per game ratio was higher in 13/14, which gives the lie to the suggestion that we are on an upward curve. If you drew that curve on a graph it wouldn't go up at the same rate. If I've missed your point, and you're saying he's an improvement on Weir, then of course that is fair, if incontrovertible, comment.

ii) We didn't benefit from accelerated form when Clough came in. We got 17 points from 14, which wouldn't have saved us had it not picked up (credit where it's due)

c) I don't advocate sacking managers when they don't achieve their targets per se. I only advocate sacking them when I'm convinced that they have taken us as far as they are capable of doing, which I think Clough has. You need 90+ goals to get out of this division. I don't think that's achievable with Clough's mindset and tactics, and that is before factoring the bizarre recruitment, routine mistakes, and personality clashes in. Actually I don't really care about his personality, although I wish he was less defensive. But I think this season has clearly demonstrated that Clough's sides tend not to win convincingly or know how to punish teams, and that's crucial in this division.

d) As it happens I do think we spend more than Bristol City and Preston and I'm confused as to why you would think we didn't. Even if we speculate that the Harry and Brayford money cancelled each other out, there was still vast over-recruitment, including what must have been expensive loans.

For the record I don't think he can take us any further either. My original argument is that he's done enough to earn another season irrespective of what I think he can achieve going forward. I believe he deserves an opportunity to prove me wrong and I stand by that. A bit of stability couldn't hurt us either. No one should be simply sacked due to reservations, his record should be judged fairly with all things taken into account. I believe calls for his exit at this point are unfair, simple as that.

As for the spending I am extremely confident that Bristol City have spent more than us over the last 12 months. I would be surprised if Preston have a smaller net spend and also MK Dons for that matter.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I would be surprised if Preston have a smaller net spend and also MK Dons for that matter.

probably right, until Done and Brayford were bought.

 

[secretchief]

For the record I don't think he can take us any further either. My original argument is that he's done enough to earn another season irrespective of what I think he can achieve going forward. I believe he deserves an opportunity to prove me wrong and I stand by that. A bit of stability couldn't hurt us either. No one should be simply sacked due to reservations, his record should be judged fairly with all things taken into account. I believe calls for his exit at this point are unfair, simple as that.

As for the spending I am extremely confident that Bristol City have spent more than us over the last 12 months. I would be surprised if Preston have a smaller net spend and also MK Dons for that matter.

Fair do's. I too would like to be proved wrong, for the record.

 

[Davie Blade]

It's easy to forget how bad we actually were before Clough came in. One win in sixteen matches was it?

4 wins in 17 is it?

 

[Davie Blade]

Because improved league position is always the target, never points per game.

Will 72 points be enough for automatic promotion next season?
Is that progress?

Nothing changes the fact that will we need more points per game by a factor of 30%
The two aren't mutually exclusive as many of us keep telling the absurd apologists.

 

[super_pig]

Jones + Smalling = Fergie retirement.

thing is Fergie had won the Scottish league and a European competition with an unfashionable team before he went to the rags

 

[Davie Blade]

inflexibility is a charge that doesn't stick imo.

Did I really read that?

Baxter's runner popped around

Flexible Nigel it is.

We've progressed to a sustainable future (hopefully), but in a way that's hard to quantify.

Sustainable apart from quantifying the £10 million pound investment which just got ignored.

This is Ground Control to Major Tom

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Will 72 points be enough for automatic promotion next season?
Is that progress?

Nothing changes the fact that will we need more points per game by a factor of 30%
The two aren't mutually exclusive as many of us keep telling the absurd apologists.

Just because some people have a different opinion from yours, calling them "absurd apologists" is disrespectful and insulting.

 

[Davie Blade]

Just because some people have a different opinion from yours, calling them "absurd apologists" is disrespectful and insulting.

Only if you have an extremely narrow minded definition of the word absurd,
and in addition to taking two words out of the whole context.

My dictionary says it is defined as arousing amusement

 

[sheffielder]

most views are to the extreme left or right of where we are. Originally I would have shot Clough after the Swindon game, however on quiet reflection I asked myself would we move ourselves further away from promotion if we removed Clough. Except for Howard, everyone is roughly going to be a Clough player and we have to admit that if we got 3/4 1st team quality players who bring to us power/height and pace in the right areas we SHOULD nail this. We also may be a force next season if promoted.

That being said, don't lose any games in August Nige, your credit has been reset.

 

[raul]

Just because some people have a different opinion from yours, calling them "absurd apologists" is disrespectful and insulting.

Where do you stand on "single-cells", "crayon users" and "agenda fuelled drivel"?

Me? I've pretty much had enough of the whole shooting match as there's very little posted that makes you smile these days, but you might want to reconsider which side of the fence throws the most bombs.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Only if you have an extremely narrow minded definition of the word absurd,
and in addition to taking two words out of the whole context.

My dictionary says it is defined as arousing amusement

So you think they are funny then?

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Where do you stand on "single-cells", "crayon users" and "agenda fuelled drivel"?

Me? I've pretty much had enough of the whole shooting match as there's very little posted that makes you smile these days, but you might want to reconsider which side of the fence throws the most bombs.

Lying down - on the fence

 

[Sothall_Blade]

It's easy to forget how bad we actually were before Clough came in. One win in sixteen matches was it?

4 wins in 17 is it?

Turns out it was 1 win, 3 draws and 9 defeats in Weir's 13 matches.
4 wins, 6 draws and 3 defeats in Clough's last 13 matches.
If you're trying to suggest that Clough's record is remotely similar to Weir's you're not going to get very far.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Will 72 points be enough for automatic promotion next season?
Is that progress?

Nothing changes the fact that will we need more points per game by a factor of 30%
The two aren't mutually exclusive as many of us keep telling the absurd apologists.

...and if he doesn't get us into the automatics at the end of next season then I think there would be a case for removing him. He would have had had 3 attempts, 2 of which he was in full control over.

 

[Davie Blade]

So you think they are funny then?

There are broader definitions of the word amusement also.
My final word on this banality..

 

[Grecian2000]

there's very little posted that makes you smile these days

You've been reading Kenny's jokes haven't you?

Must admit I can still find some smiles but, these days, they tend to be completely unintentional by the provider.

 

[mattbianco1]

That being said, don't lose any games in August Nige, your credit has been reset.

This is the problem. Its all a bit knee-jerk. If we do that people will be happy to keep him. Don't win in September they'll have their shoes off in car park.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Did I really read that?

Baxter's runner popped around

Flexible Nigel it is.


Sustainable apart from quantifying the £10 million pound investment which just got ignored.

This is Ground Control to Major Tom

"Will Not Do As I Demand" and "Inflexible" are not the same thing.

The future and the past are, in this instance, potentially significantly different places in time.