A Blank transfer window?

[Ted Danson]

Id be very surprised if we didnt sign atleast 1 quality player this window, was chatting to a relative of McCabes and he was saying KM was realy dissapointed with our league position and the whole Ched affair and it sounded to me like he was about to do his best to give us that extra boost this season. Probably me just putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 though

 

[Guesty]

Ah, don't believe the old chatting to the McCabe's routine. I remember when signing Alan Judge was nailed on after a railway station chinwag.

 

[Rampage]

Just seen that you've apparently tabled a double bid for Kieron Freeman and Paul Coutts. Clough going back to former players is hardly a shock, but depending on the transfer fee, I can't help but feel these could be a couple of good signings for you.

Freeman is a right-back. We've kicked on as a club since he's joined us and he appears to have the sulk about that but he'd still be a very capable attacking full back at League One level. He's young, so still has plenty of time to get rid of those brain-dead moments in defence (one of which put him on Clough's naughty step, and he hasn't played since).

Paul Coutts can play pretty much anywhere in midfield. I'd personally be very disappointed to see him leave. He got a nasty injury in a League Cup match a few weeks before we sacked Clough and has only recently come back to fitness. He's an excellent dribbler and capable passer and I think he'd be a great squad player for us in the run-in for the rest of the season. He's easily a top-half Championship player, so he'd be an excellent signing for you.

They're the only two players we have left that Clough has a chance of signing, so it makes sense.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Just seen that you've apparently tabled a double bid for Kieron Freeman and Paul Coutts. Clough going back to former players is hardly a shock, but depending on the transfer fee, I can't help but feel these could be a couple of good signings for you.

Freeman is a right-back. We've kicked on as a club since he's joined us and he appears to have the sulk about that but he'd still be a very capable attacking full back at League One level. He's young, so still has plenty of time to get rid of those brain-dead moments in defence (one of which put him on Clough's naughty step, and he hasn't played since).

Paul Coutts can play pretty much anywhere in midfield. I'd personally be very disappointed to see him leave. He got a nasty injury in a League Cup match a few weeks before we sacked Clough and has only recently come back to fitness. He's an excellent dribbler and capable passer and I think he'd be a great squad player for us in the run-in for the rest of the season. He's easily a top-half Championship player, so he'd be an excellent signing for you.

They're the only two players we have left that Clough has a chance of signing, so it makes sense.

Thanks Rampage, thing is we need strikers but that's a detail I suppose.

Just a mention that your post "Message from a Derby fan" over a year ago is a constant point of reference for me and so many things you mentioned have become the norm for us.

In actual fact, although I know you had a lot of loyalty and admiration for Clough but you also recognised his weaknesses, and it is those repeated weaknesses that worry me about Clough's ability to do the big job of lifting us two levels over a period.

You mentioned that Clough often missed targets because he couldn't agree value, that his brother only looked in Scotland and lower leagues and that their dealings seemed "amateurish", whilst at the same time saying that overall they had done well at Derby despite all that!

All that, together with a lack of tactical awareness and reluctance to be pro-active with substitutions, worries me. I was delighted Clough joined us just over a year ago and was so impressed until last summer. His signings since then have been average at best and our better players mostly were already here in truth.

I'm worried he is a "safe pair of hands" who never quite gets there, a bit like a younger Danny Wilson in fact. I have not given up but the precedents and historic weaknesses hit home in my head rather and overrule my heart. Since October I have become a critic of our manager, not because he is poor, but because he is not amongst a minority of potential managers who can lift us two levels from where we were, which was in an abyss but with fresh money nevertheless. After a year I think it is reasonable to come to conclusions. The signing of better players is a key to future success.

I've quoted all that you said without looking it up so I hope it's accurate. Your post in Oct 2013 has been invaluable for me and it was top quality IMO.

 

[MiserableBlader]

Can I just say again.
I personally would be happy not spending money for the sake of it
and certainly not on ex Derby types!
IF the money was saved for 5 REALLY top players from the transfer deadline day for the run in and playoffs.
Wednesday did it with five better players without game changing investment and sadly without the need for the playoffs.
DO NOT tell me promotion in a Wembley play off final is not a draw to top players with no chance of a game otherwise!
Worry about the Championship squad IF we ever get there.!

 

[wizadry]

Feel free to pick me up on anything you like mate, I enjoy the debate!

I appreciate that without context, 100k vs 3m looks pathetic. The context here is important though, because we are talking about a player that is free to walk in 6 months. My point is, regardless of previous player sales and current financial situation, from a business perspective, Dundee might (and I really stress this word) have taken the view that the 150k or whatever in fee and saved wages now is better than him going in the summer. Obviously they haven't as is their right. Realistically, I doubt we really believed we'd get him for that, but what if he would like to join us now he is aware of our bid? That plays into our hands for the remainder of the negotiations does it not? It might mean we get him at better price if he is keen.

I've not said that Dundee 'need' the money - I'd just like to point that out too.

Regarding your point that this may piss them off and stop them from selling to us, I'm sorry but I don't buy that. If Dundee Utd have a price they will sell at, and we hit it, they will sell him regardless of whether our opening bid was way too low or not. Football clubs are all the same, much like in business generally; they try and get the best deal for their club. I highly doubt Dundee Utd are 'offended' to the point where they won't negotiate with us. They might consider it a derisory bid but that is heir prerogative and as I say, if we go back with a bid that is acceptable it will be water under the bridge.

I remember us signing another scot who was early to mid twenties in a JTW not too long ago, a good attacking player with a big reputation in the SPL for around 150k or so...

I take the point of him being free to walk in 6 months and i read earlier this was the reason they took 750k for Johnny Russell when he went to Derby,i believe it will take a fee of just short of that atleast to get the services of GMS(Gary Mackay Steven) as he was wanted by the Bulgarian champions Ludogrets who have recently been in the Champions league and gave Liverpool a right old scare.

Yes he is aware of our bid and has gone on record as saying he appreciates his club Dundee United rejecting any bid and will stay until they say otherwise,Harry Maguire take note of this attitude.He would love to come to England but has said he will do whatever the club tell him,so that's a hint that he would certainly like a move to us,the thing i'm concerned with is us fannying around and then other clubs coming in for him,it could well happen.

You saying that 100k is a significant amount of money for Dundee United could certainly lead me or anyone for that matter into thinking that you're saying they are skint,this meaning they need the money so i stand corrected if you didn't mean that.

My point of them being pissed of and not selling to us will definately come into play if others are interested,it wouldn't be the first time that a manager has got narky with Cloughs' and SUFCs' handling of transfer deals,McClaren springs to mind.We will have to atleast quadruple our offer to have any chance of getting GMS,lets see what we're made of.

Regarding the Scottish player we signed for 150k not too long ago,which one are we talking about,it could be any one of about 20

 

[Lampiao]

Whilst the window is "open" we have Preston, MK Dons and Swindon to play in the league. If we have any hope of "winning" an automatic promotion place at least two of them have to be won, if not all three. The form of the team in league matches doesn't lead me to any belief that we can do this. At best we may struggle just to finish in the dreaded play-offs - and the inevitable failure there.
I don't care about FA Cup or League Cup success - we have to get out of this tin pot division - this season looks like it has the poorest collection of clubs, next season will probably be different, if any of Wigan, Blackpool, Leeds, Brighton are demoted. I expect Coventry, now back at the Rioch Arena to be a bigger threat next year.
Disappointed no urgency shown in getting a "Boost" for the team prior to the Preston match - I fear for the reaction if we don't perform well and win tomorrow. Regardless of appearances, McNulty has only 5 league goals (our top scorer!) to his name [ I know only 5 starts and 13 sub appearance] - which suggests Cloughie may not start him.
I live in hope we can "tonk" Preston, but at this moment expecting a draw at best.

 

[Bladesway]

IHarry Maguire take note of this attitude.

What the fuck has Maguire done wrong. He was on the bench for Hull the other weekend and started the cup game against Arsenal. Hardly back of the queue now is he? Lads 21 and playing for a Premiership team. Mind you he could have been starting every week in League One at about 20% of the salary.

I wonder how many of us would decline a possible 80% pay rise to a better position than the one we were currently in? Not many I guess. Although I expect a raft of people pretending they wouldn't just to prove a ridiculous point.

 

[wizadry]

What the fuck has Maguire done wrong. He was on the bench for Hull the other weekend and started the cup game against Arsenal. Hardly back of the queue now is he? Lads 21 and playing for a Premiership team. Mind you he could have been starting every week in League One at about 20% of the salary.

I wonder how many of us would decline a possible 80% pay rise to a better position than the one we currently in? Not many i guess. Although I expect a raft of people pretending they wouldn't just to prove a ridiculous point.

Take note of the full fucking post as you so say.Attitude being the key word and at no point did i say he shouldn't have gone.Maguire forced the move through by chucking the toys out of the pram,just like your first line and that's all i was getting at.The lad from Dundee United as shown a great attitude and has said he will do whatever the club say whereas Maguire didn't,he fucked us straight off as soon as he could.

You've gone of on one for no reason,is it that time of the month

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

What the fuck has Maguire done wrong. He was on the bench for Hull the other weekend and started the cup game against Arsenal. Hardly back of the queue now is he? Lads 21 and playing for a Premiership team. Mind you he could have been starting every week in League One at about 20% of the salary.

I wonder how many of us would decline a possible 80% pay rise to a better position than the one we were currently in? Not many I guess. Although I expect a raft of people pretending they wouldn't just to prove a ridiculous point.

Harry has done nothing wrong at all . If he was still at the lane i often wonder if he would be on loan at Doncaster.

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Take note of the full fucking post as you so say.Attitude being the key word and at no point did i say he shouldn't have gone.Maguire forced the move through by chucking the toys out of the pram,just like your first line and that's all i was getting at.The lad from Dundee United as shown a great attitude and has said he will do whatever the club say whereas Maguire didn't,he fucked us straight off as soon as he could.

You've gone of on one for no reason,is it that time of the month

Just checking I can still get a rise Wiz. I can. Although I still disagree with the tone of your post. Harry chucked his toys out the pram? Did he? Do we know any of this apart from the usual fishwives bollocks? Lets be honest Harry is a 21 year old bloke who saw the promised land and went, we would all do the same at his age. His attitude was what you would expect. He said he wanted to go. Actually it was us as a club who got egg on our faces when we declined the bid then changed our minds.

 

[Darthblade]

Whilst the window is "open" we have Preston, MK Dons and Swindon to play in the league. If we have any hope of "winning" an automatic promotion place at least two of them have to be won, if not all three. The form of the team in league matches doesn't lead me to any belief that we can do this. At best we may struggle just to finish in the dreaded play-offs - and the inevitable failure there.
I don't care about FA Cup or League Cup success - we have to get out of this tin pot division - this season looks like it has the poorest collection of clubs, next season will probably be different, if any of Wigan, Blackpool, Leeds, Brighton are demoted. I expect Coventry, now back at the Rioch Arena to be a bigger threat next year.
Disappointed no urgency shown in getting a "Boost" for the team prior to the Preston match - I fear for the reaction if we don't perform well and win tomorrow. Regardless of appearances, McNulty has only 5 league goals (our top scorer!) to his name [ I know only 5 starts and 13 sub appearance] - which suggests Cloughie may not start him.
I live in hope we can "tonk" Preston, but at this moment expecting a draw at best.

I'm astounded that anyone is still mentioning "automatic" places. Any chance of that disappeared in November when we threw away the majority of the points on offer.

We are in our current position because our squad is too weak, ineffective, inconsistent, slow, diminutive to compete with the top 4 clubs. Cup games are a completely different thing and usually refereed by better quality referees than we have to endure in this crappy league.

Prepare yourself for disappointment this season ....... again !!
UTB & FTP

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Ah, don't believe the old chatting to the McCabe's routine. I remember when signing Alan Judge was nailed on after a railway station chinwag.

To be fair Judge does post on here.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Thanks Rampage, thing is we need strikers but that's a detail I suppose.

Just a mention that your post "Message from a Derby fan" over a year ago is a constant point of reference for me and so many things you mentioned have become the norm for us.

In actual fact, although I know you had a lot of loyalty and admiration for Clough but you also recognised his weaknesses, and it is those repeated weaknesses that worry me about Clough's ability to do the big job of lifting us two levels over a period.

You mentioned that Clough often missed targets because he couldn't agree value, that his brother only looked in Scotland and lower leagues and that their dealings seemed "amateurish", whilst at the same time saying that overall they had done well at Derby despite all that!

All that, together with a lack of tactical awareness and reluctance to be pro-active with substitutions, worries me. I was delighted Clough joined us just over a year ago and was so impressed until last summer. His signings since then have been average at best and our better players mostly were already here in truth.

I'm worried he is a "safe pair of hands" who never quite gets there, a bit like a younger Danny Wilson in fact. I have not given up but the precedents and historic weaknesses hit home in my head rather and overrule my heart. Since October I have become a critic of our manager, not because he is poor, but because he is not amongst a minority of potential managers who can lift us two levels from where we were, which was in an abyss but with fresh money nevertheless. After a year I think it is reasonable to come to conclusions. The signing of better players is a key to future success.

I've quoted all that you said without looking it up so I hope it's accurate. Your post in Oct 2013 has been invaluable for me and it was top quality IMO.

Trouble is if Clough could lift us two leagues as quick as some fans want he would be a Premier manager quicker than it would take to lift us two leagues.

I still think we will be in a much better place come 2019.

Can the fans wait that long?
I know it will do my bonce in waiting.

 

[Woodwardfan]

What the fuck has Maguire done wrong. He was on the bench for Hull the other weekend and started the cup game against Arsenal. Hardly back of the queue now is he? Lads 21 and playing for a Premiership team. Mind you he could have been starting every week in League One at about 20% of the salary.

I wonder how many of us would decline a possible 80% pay rise to a better position than the one we were currently in? Not many I guess. Although I expect a raft of people pretending they wouldn't just to prove a ridiculous point.

Good point well made but more like a 400% pay increase not just 80%. Yes he would have stayed on about 25% of his new salary but actually got a 400% pay rise, allegedly - 4k to 16k give or take.

 

[A19 byf]

The 100k bid for Mackay-Steven was ridiculous. It's like someone coming in and bidding 100K for Loius Reed or Diego. MacKay-Steven is a class player, my mates a Dundee United fan and raves about him.

Bidding such a derisory amount only pisses off the parent club of the player and makes us look like fools. I know he's out of contract in the summer, but a player of his quality and age we should start at the very minimum around the 350K mark if not more, if we are serious.

Just looks like a token offer to appease fans.

Bit of a poor offer to be fair they paid 120k for non league player Che Adams bit of an insult to mackay-Steven really

 

[wizadry]

Just checking I can still get a rise Wiz. I can. Although I still disagree with the tone of your post. Harry chucked his toys out the pram? Did he? Do we know any of this apart from the usual fishwives bollocks? Lets be honest Harry is a 21 year old bloke who saw the promised land and went, we would all do the same at his age. His attitude was what you would expect. He said he wanted to go. Actually it was us as a club who got egg on our faces when we declined the bid then changed our minds.

Tone of my post? Read your first line,i was merely responding to that,plus you going on about things that i haven't got a clue what you're talking about regarding my initial post.You find in that post where iv'e said anything about Maguire leaving and the circumstances surrounding it.

England is the promised land for GMS but he's saying he will stay and fight for Dundee United.Do you reckon that Maguire said that about us? Or do you reckon it's more plausible that Maguire didn't want to stay and he then wanted to leave meaning it was impossible for us to hang onto him,making it easy for Hull to stick to their first offer and that's why we chased them up the M62?

 

[dingledog]

So the manager whinged about JTW and not being able to get anyone in before the 10th. Looking like the 10th will come and go. Wonder what today's interview will bring. Waiting on other clubs, better quality, they need to sign a striker etc etc. all plausible, but boringly repetitive in this case.

 

[Blade56]

15 and counting, oh no not again

 

[billyblademan]

Ah, don't believe the old chatting to the McCabe's routine. I remember when signing Alan Judge was nailed on after a railway station chinwag.

I think that was me

And at the time, he said it was. In fact, NC's interviews admitted as much that AJ moved to a better placed club at the last minute.

Was also told of Taylor, Brandy and others going, and of the Beard, who was almost unheard of by that point.

Kev was very honest, and me posting on here was punishment for him giving me a slap round the head


Edit: Thought I'd go through what KM said and mark myself

• Westlake and Whitehouse to stay where they are. Tick
• Murphy, Taylor, King and Flo to leave. Not sure what the whole Murphy thing was (!) but the latter 3 all left in Jan, albeit on loan for Cuvelier
• Alan Judge nearly done. It was, we got pipped
• Bennett and Russell from Derby. Benno nearly in the summer. Russell highly ambititious!
• Brayford on loan. Done

Not bad overall, from a so called bull shit post

 

[Guesty]

I wasn't doubting you mate!

Poor form for a Chairman to claim a deal is about done and then see us get gazumped, I'd have said.

 

[Lampiao]

Half way through the window and we are still chasing the "unobtainable" - O'Grady, Mackay-Steven, Brayford. - looking unlikely any of these will arrive. O'Grady is now playing in the Brighton Squad (and scoring), Mackay-Stevens has express a desire not to play in league one, and Brayford seems a fixture in Cardiff squad under Slade.
Notice Brissel strengthened today.
O how I don't want those bloody play-offs!

 

[Lane Ender]

Half way through the window and we are still chasing the "unobtainable" - O'Grady, Mackay-Steven, Brayford. - looking unlikely any of these will arrive. O'Grady is now playing in the Brighton Squad (and scoring), Mackay-Stevens has express a desire not to play in league one, and Brayford seems a fixture in Cardiff squad under Slade.
Notice Brissel strengthened today.
O how I don't want those bloody play-offs!

Well you better get used to the idea because auto is a complete no goer

 

[Guesty]

Well you better get used to the idea because auto is a complete no goer

Missing the play-offs entirely is absolutely obtainable though!

 

[Lane Ender]

Missing the play-offs entirely is absolutely obtainable though!

Not wrong their fella

 

[Lampiao]

Maybe we are aiming for 7th again! Certainly turning into another wasted season - (cup matches don't really matter, they are just a bit of fun around what should be the main focus). Must admit I'm virtually writing this season off already. Mind us versus Preston in play-off final would be interesting as they've failed 9 times in play-offs to our eight failures.