The False 9 debate - Summed up this afternoon.

[highpeakblade]

I don't know if any of you watched the Man City v Sunderland match but if you did you will have heard the debate about the False 9 formation and how ineffective it is when you played against negative, defensively minded teams who camp two solid banks of players in their own half behind the ball. (Which is 90% of out opponents).

How true has this been proven to be with us this season. If top class teams with extraordinary players in midfield struggle to break defensively minded teams down then how can we? I mean we have a couple of players capable of creating that magic for example Murphy and Baxter, but that formation doesn't work. Our lack of creativity and finishing in the final third proves this and it needs to be thrown in the bin.

 

[Bladesman]

I don't know if any of you watched the Man City v Sunderland match but if you did you will have heard the debate about the False 9 formation and how ineffective it is when you played against negative, defensively minded teams who camp two solid banks of players in their own half behind the ball.

How true has this been proven to be with us this season. If top class teams with extraordinary players in midfield struggle to break defensively minded teams down then how can we? I mean we have a couple of players capable of creating that magic for example Murphy and Baxter, but that formation doesn't work. Our lack of creativity and finishing in the final third proves this and it needs to be thrown in the bin.

Yeah I heard them talking about that.

The false 9 is pretty useless most of the time.

 

[judge]

Didn't do Spain any harm in the euros

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Didn't do Spain any harm in the euros

Can't remember Spain playing against many third division cloggers

 

[alcoblade]

Didn't do Spain any harm in the euros

It's doing us a lot of harm in the third division.

UTB

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Never did like any form of falsies personally

 

[alcoblade]

Never did like any form of falsies personally

I can cope with plastic fantastic.

UTB

 

[highpeakblade]

Never did like any form of falsies personally

Never let an older bird give you a gummy?

 

[Gavlar]

our problem is we have a false 1-11

 

[judge]

Can't remember Spain playing against many third division cloggers

Yeah they were just up against international world class defenders , much easier

 

[judge]

It's doing us a lot of harm in the third division.

UTB

So is having a wank squad devoid of quality

 

[highpeakblade]

So is having a wank squad devoid of quality

But we had more than enough quality to turn over West Ham and Southampton? This squad is more than good enough to secure promotion in this division. It is down to playing them wrong and over complicating things.

 

[judge]

But we had more than enough quality to turn over West Ham and Southampton? This squad is more than good enough to secure promotion in this division. It is down to playing them wrong and over complicating things.

West ham and Southampton both played well under par
the difference between a good player and a great player is motivation a self motivated player will consistently perform

A lesser player will put in performances when he feels like it

 

[wizadry]

Send the players out with the right mentality and an high tempo then we don't need to worry about the formation too much in this league,we'd be more than fine if we started to adapt this to our game more.

 

[judge]

People need to stop looking at the cup performances as a sign we have enough quality to go up
concentration is a quality ,motivation is a quality ,determination is a quality
these quality's disappear in the league when we conceed soft goal after soft goal
Yet we barely ever conced in the cup

Do 3rd division cloggers make it more difficult to mark someone at a corner ? Or go with the runner ?
No they are basics and the basics go out the windows in the league because the players can't be fucking arsed

 

[highpeakblade]

Send the players out with the right mentality and an high tempo then we don't need to worry about the formation too much in this league,we'd be more than fine if we started to adapt this to our game more.

I agree with confidence and motivation but playing the false 9 and with one up front has left us camped outside the box struggling to get in behind two solid rows of players set out not to concede.

We need strikers to get in and behind teams and mix it up a bit and sometimes rather than trying to over complicate things and play through midfield, let's do a Doncaster and put the ball into the right place where a striker has the opportunity to put the ball in the back of the net. Dilly Dallying around with the ball in midfield hasn't brought no joy and when we have managed to get in behind out wide and got the ball in the box we have had nobody there to put it away.

We need to strip it back to basics a bit in this league get the right men up front to win us games.

 

[beechblade]

As someone's father once said

'Formations don't win games, it's the players that win games.' - BC

Against premier league teams in the cup the players are playing care free. There's less pressure being placed on them. They probably have far more freedom to be expressive.
This was also the case when NC came in last season all he needed to do was get the team feeling more confident and playing far more expressively.
This season that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[boo radley]

Too much emphasise on formations.

 

[mattbianco1]

I'm going to sound like an arrogant pig here but....

Does anybody think we are too good for this league?

Wait and hear me out...

When we play against good teams, we look comfortable - Forest, Charlton, Hull, West Ham, Southampton, Fulham etc... But when teams line up with their entire squad in their own half, we can't break them down.

Everybody does this to us, especially at Bramall Lane. I actually think that if we do somehow manage to get out of this league, we will be surprised at how high up in the Championship we will finish first time back.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I watched Man City flounder for 55 minutes against Sunderland who immediately changed their formation when they went behind. Similarly Man Utd were clueless against Stoke who funnelled back when they lost possession.

Neither of those sides had the ingenuity to open up the massed defences. When 10 men get behind the ball at the edge of the penalty area in two banks of 5 and 5 and don't even commit to tackles, just holding and standing big, there is not much even top players or managers seem to be able to do.

My view is that the wingers and full backs are the key and they should head for the by-line. The banks of 5 cannot fully cover the area right out wide and along the by-line is the weakest point to enter the area in good possession. Cutting the ball back towards the penalty spot is hard to defend but it needs players coming across the front of defenders at the near post, taking defenders' eye of the blocked clearances. Other than that every ball has to be played hard and fast into the box, rather than slowly by static players to static players. Possession will be lost but then it's a case of picking up the second balls and being ready to do so.

If all else fails then the aerial route has to be Plan B, push up the centre halves or the Higdons of this world and battle.

To be honest the context of this thread is a bit off-beam. Whether you have a "false 9" or 3 or 4 up front, playing the two banks of 5 means it's an attack against defence scenario with 3-5-2 the inevitable consequence.

However I do agree Clough never gets anywhere near committing players into the final third and the opposition at Bramall Lane play their 10 defenders higher upfield than Sunderland could yesterday. Our "attack against defence" is played a bit further upfield because Clough holds back his full backs, it's his instinct. Full backs should be overlapping wingers at every opportunity in such games and evening up the numbers in the battle areas. The opposition would be pushed back into their penalty area more and that's where the football should be. Even with such a commitment the remaining defenders should be able to cope easily with one forward and any breaks out which are so infrequent in our home games. In any case surely we wouldn't let more goals in than we are already doing. The key is to create more chances for us to score and to do that we need numbers in the box.

 

[shorehamview]

.......the Higdons of this world.......

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Andy Townsend-ism! I really fucking hate Andy Townwend, please don't try and sound like him. We only have one Higdon, thankfully. Otherwise 45% of our outgoings would be on pies for the Higgopotomi.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'm going to sound like an arrogant pig here but....

Does anybody think we are too good for this league?

Wait and hear me out...

When we play against good teams, we look comfortable - Forest, Charlton, Hull, West Ham, Southampton, Fulham etc... But when teams line up with their entire squad in their own half, we can't break them down.

Everybody does this to us, especially at Bramall Lane.

Our players are well suited to a high tempo counter attacking game where we break with enthusiasm and determination every time we win the ball.

When we are favourites we fail to play with the same enthusiasm and tempo. We allow the opposition to slow the game down and help them by a frustratingly "patient" approach where we roll it sideways in the vain hope that a giant gap is going to appear in the opposition defence.

Defensively against League One teams we don't seem as intent on defending as a unit, not as determined to work for eachother and therefore our organisation has been sloppy.

 

[super_pig]

I don't know if any of you watched the Man City v Sunderland match but if you did you will have heard the debate about the False 9 formation and how ineffective it is when you played against negative, defensively minded teams who camp two solid banks of players in their own half behind the ball. (Which is 90% of out opponents).

i thought bayern blew the false 9 theory out of the water a couple of seasons ago?
as for us.. we struggle at home because teams don't 'come out'.. unless they are premiership teams expecting to win perhaps?

 

[Punk Blade]

Our players are well suited to a high tempo counter attacking game where we break with enthusiasm and determination every time we win the ball.

When we are favourites we fail to play with the same enthusiasm and tempo. We allow the opposition to slow the game down and help them by a frustratingly "patient" approach where we roll it sideways in the vain hope that a giant gap is going to appear in the opposition defence.

Defensively against League One teams we don't seem as intent on defending as a unit, not as determined to work for eachother and therefore our organisation has been sloppy.

This is clearly our problem in the league, especially at home. We know we don't score goals before the last 20 minutes, but we also know that the goals come when we raise the tempo and commit more men forward.

Why not kick towards the Kop first and batter teams into submission from the beginning, take a two goal lead to half time then just pick them off on the break if they dare go for a draw second half. We may as well try that for a couple of games and if we don't win we're no worse off than our current form!

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Using a false number 9 worked a treat in the second half of last season, then again we had a rock solid defence. If we'd have replaced Maguire and Brayford with the same quality all these 1-1s or 1-2 defeats would be 1-0 wins.