Why can't we defend set pieces ?

[metalblade]

Today we lost to a free header from a corner kick, not for the first time this season we have allowed players to get free and punish us, we did the same in injury time against 10 man Orient. Is it the constant chopping and changing of the back four or is it that as a team we are just too small ? maybe it is zonal marking to blame but corners should be one of the easiest things to defend as the defenders always have at least one man advantage. Basic defending why are we getting it wrong ?

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

Today we lost to a free header from a corner kick, not for the first time this season we have allowed players to get free and punish us, we did the same in injury time against 10 man Orient. Is it the constant chopping and changing of the back four or is it that as a team we are just too small ? maybe it is zonal marking to blame but corners should be one of the easiest things to defend as the defenders always have at least one man advantage. Basic defending why are we getting it wrong ?

More to the point why can't we benefit from set pieces?
Our corners and free kicks in general this season have been shocking!

 

[sitwell]

More to the point why can't we benefit from set pieces?
Our corners and free kicks in general this season have been shocking!

But the bloke who takes them is a technical genius

 

[raul]

If only someone on the coaching staff had 500 or so games' worth of experience at centre half and.................................

oh

 

[Fulwood Blade]

we have had issues with balls into the box for 3 years - including when Maguire was here.

We can't defend at CH and it will cost us automatic promotion unless it is solved. Liked Mccarthy today, but if he is going back then it has been a waste of time and we are just going to have to start again in one of the most crucial areas.

UTB

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

They should be able to defend corners, abysmal that their number 9 was allowed a free header, yet again this season. We need a dominant centre half and it's criminal that Clough wasn't given the funds to properly replace Maguire in the summer. Not that bothered if McCarthy goes back or not, probably be good news as it'll force Clough to look for the right type of centre half. We've got loads of mop-up centre halves, all of them would look much, much better with a dominant centre half at the heart of the defence.

 

[wizadry]

I can't help but think if Basham would have been CB today we might have stoped that goal and got something out of today.Basham has done a good job at CB,iv'e got an idea,lets not play him

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Basham has done well at cb but he's another in a long line of mop up centre halves that we've got at the club. If he'd have played today I'd have been no more confident that we could have defended set plays like that any better. We need that big centre half that knows it's his job to get his head on ones like they've scored from today. Not centre halves that are left scratching their heads, looking at each other, wondering how that's happened.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Basham has done well at cb but he's another in a long line of mop up centre halves that we've got at the club. If he'd have played today I'd have been no more confident that we could have defended set plays like that any better. We need that big centre half that knows it's his job to get his head on ones like they've scored from today. Not centre halves that are left scratching their heads, looking at each other, wondering how that's happened.

Couldn't see from where I was sat who was responsible for allowing the free header, but McEveley was MoM for me today, McCarthy has more than enough experience, Winnall hardly looked the biggest lad in the world so yes you have to be left wondering why our centre backs were left scratching their heads. For me McCarthy and Basham are much of a muchness, and as the former is only a loan player, lets play our own.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Our centre halves usually mark the biggest opposition players. If the ball were not aimed at them we have to look at our height and marking ability among the rest of the side.

I've not seen the goal yet, but doubt McEveley or McCarthy were marking Winnall.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Our centre halves usually mark the biggest opposition players. If the ball were not aimed at them we have to look at our height and marking ability among the rest of the side.

I've not seen the goal yet, but doubt McEveley or McCarthy were marking Winnall.

Whilst I agree that our centre halves mark the tallest players, there is something that they can do - and for me is what Morgan always tried to do.

When a ball comes into the box, one of the centre halves has to make it his, it is called reading the game and judgement. I have played centre half a lot and it is easy to know if/when you can/cannot get that ball. For me it used to "Alan's ball" - loud and clear to other defenders, meaning I had taken responsibility for THAT particular ball. You MAKE it yours - quite simple - attack the ball and even if you only get something on it, at least the attacker (whoever it is) doesn't get a free header.

Having played CH for years (in the past) I take great interest in ours, and we are shocking at balls into the box - we have had no commanding defender who takes responsibility since Morgan. Mccarthy did ok yesterday, but it's the balls into the danger area that is the problem - the measured balls - corners/free kicks etc. Seriously, I am not trying to belittle the players, just the process of defending.

Simple - you MAKE it your ball. Now get it sorted as CH is going to cost us.

As for yesterdays goal, where Winnall scored it from, one of our CH SHOULD have made it his ball regardless of who/if/what he was marking - it's what they are there for.

UTB

 

[judge]

Their gift of a goal aside they posed zero goal threat
their two forwards were anonymous chasing long balls into the channels and being given short shrift

Problem with dealing with set pieces (and this applies offensively as well) is that about 7-8 of the team are shortarses and well organised teams will take advantage of that

I didnt come away yesterday with any positives
we are a collection of lightweight average players the pattern of play is admirable and produces the odd moment of interplay that opens up teams but we are too lightweight and some of the shooting from the edge of the box made the ball look like concrete

Couldnt pick out one player on the pitch i would be worried about losing in january
As ive been saying since pre season the squad needs investment or its hello again lg 1

 

[sheffielder]

But the bloke who takes them is a technical genius

Baxter by chance? jesus wept

 

[sitwell]

Baxter by chance? jesus wept

I know Sheff ,but its true ,he takes all the corners all the free kicks and even the pen last week. You cant tell me they are good. Im getting to the point where I cant say anything without feeling like Im having a go at him ,but all I here is he is technically the best player at the club. Harris takes better corners ,Davies takes better free kicks and Doyle takes a better pen.His fitness and mobility are dire, we have won our games in the last 10 minutes when he has been replaced ,I just dont get it.Someone please tell me what he does give to us ,and what he has done over the last 6 games ,because I am really struggling to see why he gets so much adoration. That's it I wont say anymore about him.

 

[sheffielder]

I know Sheff ,but its true ,he takes all the corners all the free kicks and even the pen last week. You cant tell me they are good. Im getting to the point where I cant say anything without feeling like Im having a go at him ,but all I here is he is technically the best player at the club. Harris takes better corners ,Davies takes better free kicks and Doyle takes a better pen.His fitness and mobility are dire, we have won our games in the last 10 minutes when he has been replaced ,I just dont get it.Someone please tell me what he does give to us ,and what he has done over the last 6 games ,because I am really struggling to see why he gets so much adoration. That's it I wont say anymore about him.

I think it's a bit like when I get on my soap box about Doyle, sometimes you just don't realise how many times we try and get our point across. For the record, I don't disagree with you most of the time in regards to Baxter, however he has done more than Scougal this season and he sticks out a bit because he isn't a striker. I think he may just be the victim of some fucking awful tactics.

I have to think Clough is getting this awfully wrong because a squad that does have Walla,ce Murphy, Scougall, Baxter, McNuts and Higdon should be scoring goals and at worse creating chances. I am averting my eyes from Baxter and looking at Clough to see why the hell he can't see past this. I am looking at Derby to look how he kept the shackles on them for a number of years and McClaren came in and turned them into an exciting team. Maybe we are just going to have to play the long game and wait for something similar.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I know Sheff ,but its true ,he takes all the corners all the free kicks and even the pen last week. You cant tell me they are good. Im getting to the point where I cant say anything without feeling like Im having a go at him ,but all I here is he is technically the best player at the club. Harris takes better corners ,Davies takes better free kicks and Doyle takes a better pen.His fitness and mobility are dire, we have won our games in the last 10 minutes when he has been replaced ,I just dont get it.Someone please tell me what he does give to us ,and what he has done over the last 6 games ,because I am really struggling to see why he gets so much adoration. That's it I wont say anymore about him.

Part of the problem sitters, is BAxter is a bit of an enigma type player - not a forward, not a midfield player so where do we play him?
I also do not thing we can accommodate Baxter AND Scoogs in the same team and to accomodate both at the expense of a proper centre forward is IMHO daft.

By all means play false 9 against Southampton - not against the likes of Barnsley at home FFS.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

A quality player should be able to adapt though and make decisions on the pitch ,look at Rooney ,he plays further back sometimes without being told to. Scougal comes out on top for me for his tackling and mobility ,but again he is too weak to play in a midfield 2 or a front 2. In a 4-4-2 it would be hard to accommodate either of them.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Our centre halves usually mark the biggest opposition players. If the ball were not aimed at them we have to look at our height and marking ability among the rest of the side.

I've not seen the goal yet, but doubt McEveley or McCarthy were marking Winnall.

Neither McEveley nor McCarthy were marking him, it was Doyle who never left the ground to challenge him.

I know you analyse these things so I'm perplexed why someone else wasn't picking him up. As poor as the Orient goal we conceded.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Neither McEveley nor McCarthy were marking him, it was Doyle who never left the ground to challenge him.

I know you analyse these things so I'm perplexed why someone else wasn't picking him up. As poor as the Orient goal we conceded.

You are correct about Orient - very similar situation - so why has no one questioned HOWARD? Isn't that position in the centre of goal on the 6 yard line the keepers ball?

UTB

 

[UnitedBlade]

You are correct about Orient - very similar situation - so why has no one questioned HOWARD? Isn't that position in the centre of goal on the 6 yard line the keepers ball?

UTB

Agree, that occurred to me for both of those goals, he could have gone for them. I wonder if those are his instructions for corners ?

Whatever, the coaching staff need to address it for the defending unit as a whole.

 

[sheffielder]

You are correct about Orient - very similar situation - so why has no one questioned HOWARD? Isn't that position in the centre of goal on the 6 yard line the keepers ball?

UTB

For some reason, he doesn't come for anywhere near the amount of crosses he came for last season, which was a major part of his success.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Neither McEveley nor McCarthy were marking him, it was Doyle who never left the ground to challenge him.

I know you analyse these things so I'm perplexed why someone else wasn't picking him up. As poor as the Orient goal we conceded.

I still haven't seen it, but this doesn't look good for Wallace:

 

[Bergen Blade]

Whilst I agree that our centre halves mark the tallest players, there is something that they can do - and for me is what Morgan always tried to do.

When a ball comes into the box, one of the centre halves has to make it his, it is called reading the game and judgement. I have played centre half a lot and it is easy to know if/when you can/cannot get that ball. For me it used to "Alan's ball" - loud and clear to other defenders, meaning I had taken responsibility for THAT particular ball. You MAKE it yours - quite simple - attack the ball and even if you only get something on it, at least the attacker (whoever it is) doesn't get a free header.

Having played CH for years (in the past) I take great interest in ours, and we are shocking at balls into the box - we have had no commanding defender who takes responsibility since Morgan. Mccarthy did ok yesterday, but it's the balls into the danger area that is the problem - the measured balls - corners/free kicks etc. Seriously, I am not trying to belittle the players, just the process of defending.

Simple - you MAKE it your ball. Now get it sorted as CH is going to cost us.

As for yesterdays goal, where Winnall scored it from, one of our CH SHOULD have made it his ball regardless of who/if/what he was marking - it's what they are there for.

UTB

Sometimes that can happen, but with the amount of holding and shirt pulling that take place at set pieces, you can't rely on centre halves doing much more than marking the biggest threats. Having a tall zone man centrally placed and free to attack the ball is a good idea in my opinion.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I still haven't seen it, but this doesn't look good for Wallace:

Ok, yes that looks like Wallace not Doyle. The closest United player did not get off the ground to challenge. I know Winnall ran on to it but the closest player must at least challenge.

I've just looked at the TV replay again and it is definitely Doyle right next to Winnall when he heads it, yet he doesn't seem to be in this photo. It doesn't quite catch his full run so it could have been Wallace who was marking. He got very high in meeting the ball but he got no challenge from any direction.

 

[sheffielder]

Because we can't keep a settle back 4, or even a starting 11. People's duties are changing from game to game.

 

[sheffielder]

I still haven't seen it, but this doesn't look good for Wallace:

It doesn't look good for the person who assigned our midfielder with their number one striker

 

[Bergen Blade]

It doesn't look good for the person who assigned our midfielder with their number one striker

Who would you have assigned to mark Winnall? At 5'11, Wallace was our third tallest outfield player yesterday and he should be expected to do a marking job.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Whilst I agree that our centre halves mark the tallest players, there is something that they can do - and for me is what Morgan always tried to do.

When a ball comes into the box, one of the centre halves has to make it his, it is called reading the game and judgement. I have played centre half a lot and it is easy to know if/when you can/cannot get that ball. For me it used to "Alan's ball" - loud and clear to other defenders, meaning I had taken responsibility for THAT particular ball. You MAKE it yours - quite simple - attack the ball and even if you only get something on it, at least the attacker (whoever it is) doesn't get a free header.

Having played CH for years (in the past) I take great interest in ours, and we are shocking at balls into the box - we have had no commanding defender who takes responsibility since Morgan. Mccarthy did ok yesterday, but it's the balls into the danger area that is the problem - the measured balls - corners/free kicks etc. Seriously, I am not trying to belittle the players, just the process of defending.

Simple - you MAKE it your ball. Now get it sorted as CH is going to cost us.

As for yesterdays goal, where Winnall scored it from, one of our CH SHOULD have made it his ball regardless of who/if/what he was marking - it's what they are there for.

UTB

Agree Fulwood Blade especially the bit about Morgan . Was it Doyle marking Winnal ? . Yes Morgan would i feel sorted it on the pitch , but his he sorting it out in training , or is it , that he has no idea who will be playing in the back 4 , until a day before the match team is decided . Like wise , who ever sorts the forwards , midfield out . All a bit baffling , but in Mr Clough we do have the best for now and the future . May see some changes in the back room staff as the game changing signing.

The under 18 team played at Stocksbridge last week with the same technical tactics as the first team . Difference ...... Strong no nonsense CH and CF . Score 6-2 to the blades.

Mr Clough will sort it , if given time and money , which are both sadly lacking at the lane and in football general .

Bristol City will fall away as there manager will .We are still in there with a good shout , but the January transfer window becomes more and more important , as it approaches with great speed

UTB.

 

[sheffielder]

Who would you have assigned to mark Winnall? At 5'11, Wallace was our third tallest outfield player yesterday and he should be expected to do a marking job.

a defender. I would assume Alcock would be a better man marker or a striker than Wallace.

 

[Bergen Blade]

a defender. I would assume Alcock would be a better man marker or a striker than Wallace.

Alcock has a great leap and usually does a marking job at our set pieces. Barnsley had Cole, Nyatanga, Cranie, Ramage, Bailey and Hourihane who were all taller than Winnall, so we may have thought others were bigger threats.