The wilder conundrum

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BocciaBlade said:
Do we now need to look at moving CW on at the end of the season (to do it now is not the right time)and start the search for a younger progressive manager.Plenty of clubs have done it why can’t we?He’s the man for the job now but he’s not the future? We’ve got to start the process of moving away from this culture that CW keeps talking about and start a new era at our club before we get left behind and stuck in the championship wilderness.Success is never guaranteed and yes it didn’t happen with Selles but we can’t let that stop the process.Have we got the confidence in the owners probably not but again we’ve got to start the process and hope it works.
Click to expand...
Ooh good. A Wilder thread.
 



Valleyblade said:
This is a wild idea.

Promote wilder to the director of football role, temporarily. Have him oversee the day to day running of the club, finances along with snek, scouting and recruitment etc...for now, with a view to passing that on, in the near to medium term.

I don't trust the owners to rip it all up and start again overnight, for obvious reasons, but we need some freshening up.

Get a new head coach, and his team. Our owners apparently are specialists in medical science, so get a proper fitness and conditioning team in, try and build the academy.

I stress that wilder and snek running g ghe show would be temporary, with a view to allowing some actual pros to do all that vitally important work.

As it stands though wilder and snek run the whole fucking lot, and the team, and the coaching.
Click to expand...

NO NO NO NO and NO!

People need to stop suggesting wilder as a director of football. It either makes you look oblivious to the issues at the club or like you don’t understand the role.

Director of football sets the footballing philosophy, organises the scouting to identify the players to fit into the philosophy and sets the tone for the whole football club.

What is our football philosophy under wilder now? Shit football, some of the worst statistics in the whole division with a squad full of awful, past it has beens no one else wants.

Why an earth would we want a director of football who is watching our games with his eyes painted on with a recent history of godawful recruitment who has said again recently he wants to deal with British based players only.

What self respecting young head coach would want to work under a dinosaur

Just NO!

Thanks for the memories and all but when he goes he goes!
 
CarlMcBlade said:
To get a progressive club with a progressive manager…We first need progressive owners.
Click to expand...

Maybe some 'progressive fans' might help too, rather than the reactionary moaning twats we get, everytie we lose.

Groucho Blade said:
Bring in a progressive manager now. And stick by him even if we go down.
We probably need to take a step back to be able to take several steps forward
Click to expand...

Progressive? I hear that Ruben Selles is looking for another job in English football.

Joking apart, do you really think that our bed wetting fanbase, could actually cope with relgation, and truly stick with a manager who took us down?

In my lifetime, the only manager who stayed after relegation, was DB, and he got the bum's rush fairly shortly after.
 
BocciaBlade said:
Do we now need to look at moving CW on at the end of the season (to do it now is not the right time)and start the search for a younger progressive manager.Plenty of clubs have done it why can’t we?He’s the man for the job now but he’s not the future? We’ve got to start the process of moving away from this culture that CW keeps talking about and start a new era at our club before we get left behind and stuck in the championship wilderness.Success is never guaranteed and yes it didn’t happen with Selles but we can’t let that stop the process.Have we got the confidence in the owners probably not but again we’ve got to start the process and hope it works.
Click to expand...
Why the bloody hell would you start a new Wilder thread????
 
metalblade said:
We'll be as good as relegated by Christmas, we have to get rid now. Give a new bloke the few weeks break to see what we need, we can't afford to wait it gets worse every day.
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Think it’s a bit of an over reaction to be fair the last two games we’ve played teams in a bit of form and/or spent big. Could/should have been against ten men on both. Yes we haven’t been great to watch but we’ve got the points off teams that have been playing well and beat teams who havent
 
nopigfansintown said:
It's a huge job to turn the ship around; by turn the ship around, I'm talking about competing for Promotion. You're talking 6-8 transfers windows with competitive backing if things go smoothly. CW is 58 years old. He's there to keep us in the division through the most painful part of that transition and to hopefully build us up a bit for his successor. That's the depressing reality of the position of the club and the shape of the squad. A lot of fans are struggling to adapt to that reality, which is why we are getting all the online noise. There's a false perception that we're still one of the Championships powerhouses.
Click to expand...
Bit early for panto season but “oh no we’re not!”
 
ben1987 said:
NO NO NO NO and NO!

People need to stop suggesting wilder as a director of football. It either makes you look oblivious to the issues at the club or like you don’t understand the role.

Director of football sets the footballing philosophy, organises the scouting to identify the players to fit into the philosophy and sets the tone for the whole football club.

What is our football philosophy under wilder now? Shit football, some of the worst statistics in the whole division with a squad full of awful, past it has beens no one else wants.

Why an earth would we want a director of football who is watching our games with his eyes painted on with a recent history of godawful recruitment who has said again recently he wants to deal with British based players only.

What self respecting young head coach would want to work under a dinosaur

Just NO!

Thanks for the memories and all but when he goes he goes!
Click to expand...

And just to emphasise your point further - why would you want a guy a DoF who has just chosen to send Sam Curtis on loan whilst bringing in Doherty and Choudhury as back up RBs (thus spending unneeded £millions on wages) and in the last two games brought on Ayew over Donovan .....
 
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Missing Spark said:
Why the bloody hell would you start a new Wilder thread????
Click to expand...
Why not? If you read it I’m not asking for him to be sacked but he’s not going to be here forever is he? It’s a united site so where else do you suggest talking about the most important person at the club?
 



CarlMcBlade said:
To get a progressive club with a progressive manager…We first need progressive owners.
Click to expand...
Our owners have shown that they want to be progressive, but they got it wrong.

Last summer they sacked Wilder and replaced him with Selles. They tried to follow the model of other clubs by signing data led players from foreign markets. That in itself is progressive.

Given Wilder's midweek interview in which he revealed why he only likes to mainly sign British born or British based players it's no real surprise that they sacked him last summer given what they were aiming to do. They clearly didn't agree on recruitment.

Their fatal flaws were that they appointed the wrong manager on bad advice from someone, and the AI data driven recruitment was being run a professional poker player, someone with no footballing knowledge other than he had invested in some football clubs, coincidentally clubs we then bought players from and then sold one of the summer signings to.

Why they abandoned it and went back to Wilder I will never know when it just needed refining and the right person recruited to be put in charge of it. Why the summer before we scoured League One and bought Cooper and Burrows for low fees with success and then abandoned this model I will never know.

The one consistency in all of this is the presence of Bettis, who is not a footballing man. Is he the one offering the advice? Was he the reason Wilder came back? Is he the reason we abandoned last summer's plan, which was moving in the right direction but executed poorly.

What we need and has been blindingly obvious since our "greatest ever transfer window" in the Premier League is a Director of Football. Perhaps one of the reasons they didn't give Wilder money this summer is because they don't trust him with it given his appalling record when it comes to spending big fees.

Perhaps they thought they could write off this season as one for stability with a view to implementing the changes needed next summer, but this season has now gone pear shaped. The length of a manager's contract is irrelevant if you sack them as you only owe them compensation up until they are appointed at a new club.

As someone else said on this forum, lots of clubs now have a Director of Football, a head of scouting, head of academy, head of fitness/conditioning and then a head coach who's job is to improve and develop players not just to win matches, but so that they can be sold on for profit to fund future transfers to build a competitive team over 2-3 seasons geared for promotion. If you sack the head coach then it doesn't derail everything else as they remain in place. The infrastructure remains the same. This is what we need which means no Wilder and no Bettis.

I do think our owners are progressive in thought but they don't know football and have had to rely on listening to Wilder, who is stubborn and old school and doesn't agree with their vision as he wants total control and refuses to scour foreign markets, where you can pick up Championship level players for low fees/wages, and Bettis, who by his own admission is not a football man.

So called "smaller" clubs like Brentford, Brighton and now Bristol City have/are leaving us in their wake because they are run as modern football clubs using this model. We are still trailing behind because Wilder refuses to move forward and so have we in sticking with him. Even clubs like Notts County, Plymouth and Peterborough in League One are showing more progression than us now.
 
Last edited:
SBSP said:
A year down the line with no improvement.

We can’t wait another year.

He must go. Now.
Click to expand...

SBSP said:
shower of shite in charge
Click to expand...

Red Wing Blade said:
Our owners have shown that they want to be progressive, but they got it wrong.

Last summer they sacked Wilder and replaced him with Selles. They tried to follow the model of other clubs by signing data led players from foreign markets. That in itself is progressive.

Given Wilder's midweek interview in which he revealed why he only likes to mainly sign British born or British based players it's no real surprise that they sacked him last summer given what they were aiming to do. They clearly didn't agree on recruitment.

Their fatal flaws were that they appointed the wrong manager on bad advice from someone, and the AI data driven recruitment was being run a professional poker player, someone with no footballing knowledge other than he had invested in some football clubs, coincidentally clubs we then bought players from and then sold one of the summer signings to.

Why they abandoned it and went back to Wilder I will never know when it just needed refining and the right person recruiter to be put in charge of it. Why the summer before we scoured League One and bought Cooper and Burrows for low fees and then abandoned this model I will never know.

The one consistence in all of this is the presence of Bettis, who is not a footballing man. Is he the one offering the advice? Was he the reason Wilder came back? Is he the reason we abandoned last summer's plan, which was moving in the right direction but executed poorly.

What we need and has been blindingly obvious since our "greatest ever transfer window" in the Premier League is a Director of Football. Perhaps one of the reasons they gave Wilder money this summer is because they don't trust him with it given his appalling record when it comes to spending big fees.

Perhaps they thought they could write off this season as one for stability with a view to implementing the changes needed next summer, but this season has now gone pear shaped. The length of a manager's contract is irrelevant if you sack them as you only owe them compensation up until they are appointed at a new club.

As someone else said on this forum, lots of clubs now have a Director of Football, a head of scouting, head of academy. head of fitness/conditioning and then a head coach who's job is to improve and develop players not just to win matches, but so that they can be sold on for profit to fund future transfers to build a competitive team over 2-3 seasons geared for promotion. If you sack the head coach then it doesn't derail everything else as they remain in place. This is what we need which means no Wilder and no Bettis.

I do think our owners are progressive in thought but they don't know football and have had to rely on Wilder, who is stubborn and old school and doesn't agree with their vision as he wants total control and refuses to scoured foreign markets, where you can pick up Championship level players for low fees/wages, and Bettis, who by his own admission is not a football man.

So called "smaller" clubs like Brentford, Brighton and now Bristol City have/are leaving us in their wake because they are run as modern football clubs using this model. We are still trailing behind because Wilder refuses to move forward and so have we in sticking with him. Even clubs like Notts County, Plymouth and Peterborough in League One are showing more progression than us now.
Click to expand...
Yes, being progressive with very little knowledge can also be destructive. The catalogue of events and decisions that followed our narrow play-off defeat have served to hasten our decline.
 
nopigfansintown said:
It's a huge job to turn the ship around; by turn the ship around, I'm talking about competing for Promotion. You're talking 6-8 transfers windows with competitive backing if things go smoothly. CW is 58 years old. He's there to keep us in the division through the most painful part of that transition and to hopefully build us up a bit for his successor. That's the depressing reality of the position of the club and the shape of the squad. A lot of fans are struggling to adapt to that reality, which is why we are getting all the online noise. There's a false perception that we're still one of the Championships powerhouses.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe it’s because we think we are a championship powerhouse at all
That’s bloody nonsense
We do think the football could better it’s not occasionally bad it’s been bad for the third season in a row sams tactics same plan just worse players playing the same plan
We still have a top ten budget let’s not forget that
Yet you look round this division who else has our “homely” approach
Who else for three season watch’s their team blowing out of their arse after 70 minutes, week in week out
Look at the latest stats over the whole thing we are bottom of the pile
For a top ten club budget wise that makes you ask why are we the worst statically performing team in the division
There is no plan ffs who runs a multi million pounds football business with no plan
No it’s not entitlement but it is caring a deep connection to the club
 
ben1987 said:
NO NO NO NO and NO!

People need to stop suggesting wilder as a director of football. It either makes you look oblivious to the issues at the club or like you don’t understand the role.

Director of football sets the footballing philosophy, organises the scouting to identify the players to fit into the philosophy and sets the tone for the whole football club.

What is our football philosophy under wilder now? Shit football, some of the worst statistics in the whole division with a squad full of awful, past it has beens no one else wants.

Why an earth would we want a director of football who is watching our games with his eyes painted on with a recent history of godawful recruitment who has said again recently he wants to deal with British based players only.

What self respecting young head coach would want to work under a dinosaur

Just NO!

Thanks for the memories and all but when he goes he goes!
Click to expand...
The idea of Wilder
("I only want British old farts")
as a DoF
is risible.
Those who think it's a good Idea cannot have seen our recent recruitment or performances.
If they have , they need Sectioning.
 
ben1987 said:
NO NO NO NO and NO!

People need to stop suggesting wilder as a director of football. It either makes you look oblivious to the issues at the club or like you don’t understand the role.

Director of football sets the footballing philosophy, organises the scouting to identify the players to fit into the philosophy and sets the tone for the whole football club.

What is our football philosophy under wilder now? Shit football, some of the worst statistics in the whole division with a squad full of awful, past it has beens no one else wants.

Why an earth would we want a director of football who is watching our games with his eyes painted on with a recent history of godawful recruitment who has said again recently he wants to deal with British based players only.

What self respecting young head coach would want to work under a dinosaur

Just NO!

Thanks for the memories and all but when he goes he goes!
Click to expand...
Wilder WAS a great manager for us, but sadly our “messiah” has seemingly forgotten how to set up his teams to play even the most rudimentary style of football. There is wealth of experience in our team, yet the way they are being asked play the game is so counterintuitive and frankly quite bizarre.
 
Valleyblade said:
This is a wild idea.

Promote wilder to the director of football role, temporarily. Have him oversee the day to day running of the club, finances along with snek, scouting and recruitment etc...for now, with a view to passing that on, in the near to medium term.
Click to expand...
Dear god, no. Absolutely not. Just write him a cheque and tell him to sod off. Why reward him with a “promotion”? As a club we need to move on from Wilder. He is undoing all the good work he did in his first spell. He’s failed at every other club he’s been to after leaving us and that’s the version of wilder we are stuck with.

He has a terrible record with scouting and recruiting and his philosophy of brining in 3 and hoping 1 turns good is not a model any younger manager should following.
 
ATL Recs said:
I don’t believe it’s because we think we are a championship powerhouse at all
That’s bloody nonsense
We do think the football could better it’s not occasionally bad it’s been bad for the third season in a row sams tactics same plan just worse players playing the same plan
We still have a top ten budget let’s not forget that
Yet you look round this division who else has our “homely” approach
Who else for three season watch’s their team blowing out of their arse after 70 minutes, week in week out
Look at the latest stats over the whole thing we are bottom of the pile
For a top ten club budget wise that makes you ask why are we the worst statically performing team in the division
There is no plan ffs who runs a multi million pounds football business with no plan
No it’s not entitlement but it is caring a deep connection to the club
Click to expand...

Top ten budget is mythology because it's totally undermined by sunk cost. Our squad is not 8-10th in quality when Wilder walked back through the door, especially when you remove the three key players. It's a bottom half squad. Danny Wilson had one of the biggest budgets in the Championship when we lost to Huddersfield. Same equation.The players he's been allowed to bring in this season aren't consistent with a play off finish. That is compounded by when he's been allowed to bring them in: the only players in situ at the start of pre season that is struggling fitness wise is Campbell. If you sign players at the back of July/August fitness problems are inevitably going to bleed into your season. An inevitable result of "sell to buy" and "getting the wage bill down".

The real sickener? The exact same scenario is already guaranteed to happen next season. High chance it happens the following season too. Probably 60-70% chance as Jan recruitment is not to be advised (sellers market), which gives us two summers to sign circa 20 players when the churn happens and the better players get picked off.
 
Red Wing Blade said:
Our owners have shown that they want to be progressive, but they got it wrong.

Last summer they sacked Wilder and replaced him with Selles. They tried to follow the model of other clubs by signing data led players from foreign markets. That in itself is progressive.

Given Wilder's midweek interview in which he revealed why he only likes to mainly sign British born or British based players it's no real surprise that they sacked him last summer given what they were aiming to do. They clearly didn't agree on recruitment.

Their fatal flaws were that they appointed the wrong manager on bad advice from someone, and the AI data driven recruitment was being run a professional poker player, someone with no footballing knowledge other than he had invested in some football clubs, coincidentally clubs we then bought players from and then sold one of the summer signings to.

Why they abandoned it and went back to Wilder I will never know when it just needed refining and the right person recruited to be put in charge of it. Why the summer before we scoured League One and bought Cooper and Burrows for low fees with success and then abandoned this model I will never know.

The one consistency in all of this is the presence of Bettis, who is not a footballing man. Is he the one offering the advice? Was he the reason Wilder came back? Is he the reason we abandoned last summer's plan, which was moving in the right direction but executed poorly.

What we need and has been blindingly obvious since our "greatest ever transfer window" in the Premier League is a Director of Football. Perhaps one of the reasons they didn't give Wilder money this summer is because they don't trust him with it given his appalling record when it comes to spending big fees.

Perhaps they thought they could write off this season as one for stability with a view to implementing the changes needed next summer, but this season has now gone pear shaped. The length of a manager's contract is irrelevant if you sack them as you only owe them compensation up until they are appointed at a new club.

As someone else said on this forum, lots of clubs now have a Director of Football, a head of scouting, head of academy, head of fitness/conditioning and then a head coach who's job is to improve and develop players not just to win matches, but so that they can be sold on for profit to fund future transfers to build a competitive team over 2-3 seasons geared for promotion. If you sack the head coach then it doesn't derail everything else as they remain in place. The infrastructure remains the same. This is what we need which means no Wilder and no Bettis.

I do think our owners are progressive in thought but they don't know football and have had to rely on listening to Wilder, who is stubborn and old school and doesn't agree with their vision as he wants total control and refuses to scour foreign markets, where you can pick up Championship level players for low fees/wages, and Bettis, who by his own admission is not a football man.

So called "smaller" clubs like Brentford, Brighton and now Bristol City have/are leaving us in their wake because they are run as modern football clubs using this model. We are still trailing behind because Wilder refuses to move forward and so have we in sticking with him. Even clubs like Notts County, Plymouth and Peterborough in League One are showing more progression than us now.
Click to expand...
You mean the Notts County who are 20th , and Peterborough who are 23rd in League One ?
 
I should coco said:
In my lifetime, the only manager who stayed after relegation, was DB, and he got the bum's rush fairly shortly after.
Click to expand...
He stayed after two relegations, the first one to L1. And the major rebuild after the first one might be exactly what we need somebody to come in to do now. There will certainly be people out there who can do it.
 
ben1987 said:
Doubt it

1 - he thinks he’s doing a great job

2 - if he resigns he won’t get paid off
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I dont know as a fan whats more concerning
1 watching this tripe week in week out
2 a manager who doesnt think we are bad

No 2 is a sackable offence
 
Spadge54 said:
Think it’s a bit of an over reaction to be fair the last two games we’ve played teams in a bit of form and/or spent big. Could/should have been against ten men on both. Yes we haven’t been great to watch but we’ve got the points off teams that have been playing well and beat teams who havent
Click to expand...
Fleetwood got spanked by Barnet let that sink in thats how far we have regressed as a football club its up there with Palace loosing at Macclesfield
 
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