The Vicious Circle of the Third Division

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

blader said:
Maguire won fans player of the year, and now there's plenty fans on here saying he wasn't the best player. Why's changed? His club is the mainreason! Maguire was votes our best player by a majority of fans, he was also selected by an independent body, which said he was one of the best two centra backs in the league. He has now got a £2m pound move to a premier league outfit.

What did murphy win? The 'mattbianco thinks he was the best award' as far as I can see. I'm not saying you're wrong, football is about opinion, but the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of Maguire being our best player last season.
Click to expand...

No one (I think) disputes that Maguire was one of our best players. A PL club would not have signed him were that not the case.

However, I think it is a reasonable decision to take £2.5M for a player who has not proven himself to be anything but a good third division player and who wanted away and to spend the money on 2-3 decent third division players. Obviously, if we don't get the latter in, people can then moan.
 

mattbianco1 said:
How many fans voted can you tell me that? Was it 10? Was it 10k? I know I didn't vote. Was a percentage of votes shown? Who came 2nd? Who came 3rd?

Genuine questions which I have no idea of the answers. If you don't know, please don't pretend to. If you do, please tell me.
Click to expand...

Don't know mate. I do know this was the 3rd year in a row he won it though. Pretty compelling.
 
If you were Harry Maguire, would you want to move on?

He probably didn't when Wolves came knocking. Bit of a gamble, they've only just got out of this league, will they go up again? will they be in the same league as United next season? If they were the only people that came in, I honestly think Harry would've maybe stayed to see out his final year.

Now Hull come in. Premiership club. FA Cup runners up. Europa League qualification. 1hrs drive from home. Triple your wages... Now he has to go home and ponder all over again doesn't he.
 
Darren said:
No one (I think) disputes that Maguire was one of our best players. A PL club would not have signed him were that not the case.

However, I think it is a reasonable decision to take £2.5M for a player who has not proven himself to be anything but a good third division player and who wanted away and to spend the money on 2-3 decent third division players. Obviously, if we don't get the latter in, people can then moan.
Click to expand...

No I said that to be fair. I'm happy to debate whether you think selling him was good business or not, but the evidence all points to him bein our best player last season, as noted by those associated with the club AND impartial onlookers. I find it hard for people to argue anyone else performed better over the whole season.
 
Darren said:
No one (I think) disputes that Maguire was one of our best players. A PL club would not have signed him were that not the case.

However, I think it is a reasonable decision to take £2.5M for a player who has not proven himself to be anything but a good third division player and who wanted away and to spend the money on 2-3 decent third division players. Obviously, if we don't get the latter in, people can then moan.
Click to expand...
I think the reason for the moaning is that the latter is very likely to be the case given the club's history.

But to balance, people trying to pretend Maguire wasn't one of at least our top 2 players is a typical reaction I've seen many times before when we sell players. I think it's some way of trying to justify the club's actions to themselves, when in actuality it's just business, done as you stated earlier by most football clubs, it just depends where you are in the pecking order, and we aren't very high at the moment.

Before McDonald was sold, I'd suggest 80% of fans thought he was an excellent ball player, as soon as he went a large number of the 80% easily switched over to the 'lazy bastard, didn't put the effort in' camp, to justify it to themselves.
 
blader said:
Don't know mate. I do know this was the 3rd year in a row he won it though. Pretty compelling.
Click to expand...

And I do know that a lot of people's votes are skewed because he's "one of our own". Neill Collins has been equally as good and they formed a partnership. Just as Morgan and Jagielka did. Maguire has youth on his side and came through our academy. Take a look at the reputation that De Girolamo has despite only playing around 30mins 1st team football. People like seeing academy prospects succeed.

Kyle Walker & Phil Jagielka in the England squad. Does that not make you feel a tiny bit proud? In an ideal world, we would be a premiership team and would hold onto these players. But even then, we go back to the Southampton debate.

Chambers, Shaw, Lallana, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain - the list goes on
 
Last edited:
ZoneManWilf said:
I think the reason for the moaning is that the latter is very likely to be the case given the club's history.

But to balance, people trying to pretend Maguire wasn't one of at least our top 2 players is a typical reaction I've seen many times before when we sell players. I think it's some way of trying and justify the club's actions to themselves, when in actuality it's just business, done as you stated earlier by most football clubs, it just depends where you are in the pecking order, and we aren't very high at the moment.

Before McDonald was sold, I'd suggest 80% of fans thought he was an excellent ball player, as soon as he went a large number of the 80% easily switched over to the 'lazy bastard, didn't put the effort in' camp, to justify it to themselves.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying and that too pisses me off. I'm not saying Harry Maguire wasn't one of our best. If I voted (which I don't even know how/where to), I wouldn't have voted Harry Maguire. That is gods honest truth. Jamie Murphy, Conor Coady & John Brayford pleased me more last season.

That is also not the point I'm making in this thread. £2.5m is one hell of a good price for a player who has only played in Division 3.

If he wasn't English and/or come through our academy, he would've gone for a lot less than that.
 
mattbianco1 said:
I hear what you are saying and that too pisses me off. I'm not saying Harry Maguire wasn't one of our best. If I voted (which I don't even know how/where to), I wouldn't have voted Harry Maguire. That is gods honest truth. Jamie Murphy, Conor Coady & John Brayford pleased me more last season.

That is also not the point I'm making in this thread. £2.5m is one hell of a good price for a player who has only played in Division 3.

If he wasn't English and/or come through our academy, he would've gone for a lot less than that.
Click to expand...
I agree with your middle sentence - it is undoubtedly a good price for a centre half who has played only in league 1 and has one year left on a contract.

But I'm not going to ignore what I saw from him last season. He moved on a level for me, still not pacey, but he certainly improved his athleticism a lot, he's not just the oil tanker from 2 and a half years ago. His positional sense and strength has got better, and he proved this in games against decent opposition (vs Benteke at Villa Park and also against Fulham and Charlton stands out in my mind). For me he was our player of the year over the season, Murphy was the best player at the end of the season, but Maguire beats him for consistency for me.

His sale undoubtedly makes us weaker, I would have loved him to stay. People don't need to try and deny or justify this, but understand the club made a choice given the contractual situation and the player's desire for a move.

The frustration from some is because we are supposed to be well funded now, so if we don't invest this cash back in the team (which many people expect not to happen), then it's same 'owd, same 'owd United, and I can sympathise with this view. It's happened year after year after year, so what's changed?
 
ZoneManWilf said:
I agree with your middle sentence - it is undoubtedly a good price for a centre half who has played only in league 1 and has one year left on a contract.

But I'm not going to ignore what I saw from him last season. He moved on a level for me, still not pacey, but he certainly improved his athleticism a lot, he's not just the oil tanker from 2 and a half years ago. His positional sense and strength has got better, and he proved this in games against decent opposition (vs Benteke at Villa Park and also against Fulham and Charlton stands out in my mind). For me he was our player of the year over the season, Murphy was the best player at the end of the season, but Maguire beats him for consistency for me.

His sale undoubtedly makes us weaker, I would have loved him to stay. People don't need to try and deny or justify this, but understand the club made a choice given the contractual situation and the player's desire for a move.

The frustration from some is because we are supposed to be well funded now, so if we don't invest this cash back in the team (which many people expect not to happen), then it's same 'owd, same 'owd United, and I can sympathise with this view. It's happened year after year after year, so what's changed?
Click to expand...

Summed up exactly what I've been saying, but clearer, more eloquent and more concise. Thanks.
 
blader said:
Don't know mate. I do know this was the 3rd year in a row he won it though. Pretty compelling.
Click to expand...
Right,where do i start,for 1.you started this by saying maguire was good under weir,which quite clearly i thought wasn't the case,favourites and all that springs to mind.2. mattbianco was spot on when he said votes are skewed,although i'm not disputing he should have got it the 2 previous seasons,but this season didn't really start until just after clough came in as proved by the league positions, and for me, Harry wasn't good enough in that first half of that season just like the rest of the squad i may add,our defence was all over the shop at that time, it really was.

For me, Harry contributed to that team who was near the bottom,where as a couple of the players didn't,this is where Murphy,Brayford,and to a certain extent Coady come into it,they had a greater impact than Maguire in the critical second half of the season imo.I'm not saying Harry didn't have any impact by the way,i'm just saying for those reasons mentioned why i would have given it to someone else.

That first half of that season was one of, if not, the worst iv'e witnessed as a blade, so for me, the award could only be given to someone who played in the key games,in the second half, of that season.Maguire did play,but i thought there were better performers,and more influencial players than our centre half.This has nothing to do with sourgrapes by the way,it was just the way i saw it.
 
wizadry said:
Right,where do i start,for 1.you started this by saying maguire was good under weir,which quite clearly i thought wasn't the case,favourites and all that springs to mind.2. mattbianco was spot on when he said votes are skewed,although i'm not disputing he should have got it the 2 previous seasons,but this season didn't really start until just after clough came in as proved by the league positions, and for me, Harry wasn't good enough in that first half of that season just like the rest of the squad i may add,our defence was all over the shop at that time, it really was.

For me, Harry contributed to that team who was near the bottom,where as a couple of the players didn't,this is where Murphy,Brayford,and to a certain extent Coady come into it,they had a greater impact than Maguire in the critical second half of the season imo.I'm not saying Harry didn't have any impact by the way,i'm just saying for those reasons mentioned why i would have given it to someone else.

That first half of that season was one of, if not, the worst iv'e witnessed as a blade, so for me, the award could only be given to someone who played in the key games,in the second half, of that season.Maguire did play,but i thought there were better performers,and more influencial players than our centre half.This has nothing to do with sourgrapes by the way,it was just the way i saw it.
Click to expand...

And as I said to Matt, am everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I aren't saying your wrong. But the evidence leans towards y argument. Why was he in the league 1 team of the year, for example, selected by players and managers of the other clubs? Surely no skew or bias there?
 
blader said:
And as I said to Matt, am everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I aren't saying your wrong. But the evidence leans towards y argument. Why was he in the league 1 team of the year, for example, selected by players and managers of the other clubs? Surely no skew or bias there?
Click to expand...
Perhaps Harry's agent and his dad were on the panel,how the fuck do i know.

There's one thing for sure,does Messi and the golden ball ring any bells?
 
wizadry said:
Perhaps Harry's agent and his dad were on the panel,how the fuck do i know.

There's one thing for sure,does Messi and the golden ball ring any bells?
Click to expand...

If you're genuinely trying to liken those 2 scenarios, this conversation is over! Perhaps, jus perhaps, he got voted as one othe best 2 CBs in league 1, because he WAS on of the best CBs in the league. Call me a conspiracist and all that...
 

blader said:
If you're genuinely trying to liken those 2 scenarios, this conversation is over! Perhaps, jus perhaps, he got voted as one othe best 2 CBs in league 1, because he WAS on of the best CBs in the league. Call me a conspiracist and all that...
Click to expand...
Perhaps there weren't many decent ones to pick from,have you ever thought of that,or is that a tad hard.
 
wizadry said:
Perhaps there weren't many decent ones to pick from,have you ever thought of that,or is that a tad hard.
Click to expand...

So out fans voted he was our best player, and everyone he played against voted him as player of the year. You've made your mind up it wasn't Maguire, but it's really hard to argue in favour of anyone else!
 
This thread is like a vicious circle!!

Teams in League 1 lose their best players. That's a fact. It's always been a fact.

Maguire was one of our best players that's a fact too.

£2.5m is a substantial amount of money for a L1 club to receive for a transfer fee. Another fact.

£2.5m could buy many good players capable of getting us out of this shitty league (please consider we've signed about 8 and only paid for one). Again, this is a fact.

Was it the right thing to do selling Maguire at this stage? "IN MY OPINION" ... Yes under the circumstances. I personally would've liked Maguire to hang fire and see out his contract then reassess next season. The player made his mind up and so "for me", we accepted the bid at the right time.

Now can we PLEASE move on?
 
mattbianco1 said:
This thread is like a vicious circle!!

Teams in League 1 lose their best players. That's a fact. It's always been a fact.

Maguire was one of our best players that's a fact too.

£2.5m is a substantial amount of money for a L1 club to receive for a transfer fee. Another fact.

£2.5m could buy many good players capable of getting us out of this shitty league (please consider we've signed about 8 and only paid for one). Again, this is a fact.

Was it the right thing to do selling Maguire at this stage? "IN MY OPINION" ... Yes under the circumstances. I personally would've liked Maguire to hang fire and see out his contract then reassess next season. The player made his mind up and so "for me", we accepted the bid at the right time.

Now can we PLEASE move on?
Click to expand...
Move on?
Do us blades know how to move on?
Must be another 10 pages we can get out of this!

P.s. can we have Michael Brown back ;)
 
Moving on is for suckers, I'm still trying to figure out how I can pin this whole thing on Carlos Tevez....

Can't be a coincidence those kidnappers returning his dad on the same day Harry leaves.
 
Teddy said:
Moving on is for suckers, I'm still trying to figure out how I can pin this whole thing on Carlos Tevez....

Can't be a coincidence those kidnappers returning his dad on the same day Harry leaves.
Click to expand...
When they returned his dad, they also returned the sun cream that they took out of his golf bag whilst doing the kidnapping.
 
Revolution said:
And it's been like that for generations. To give just one example, the parallels between the sales of Jimmy Dunne and Brian Deane, 60 years apart, are striking.
Click to expand...

All clubs sell their best players. If selling players is all you've got, then there's no point even carrying on. There are plenty of examples of it all over the forum, they come up every time we sell a player. Even Man Utd had to let Ronaldo go. I don't get how selling players relates to being small minded, especially when they want to leave and engineer the move.

I also don't get how everyone that has ever and will ever in future serve on a Sheffield United board, can possibly be of the exact same mindset. This is statistically improbable. There is no connection to the board of 1900 to that of 1940 or 1980 or 2020.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LSF
blader said:
No. :)
Click to expand...

Well two of our players we sold are in the premier league and Europe and the other one we sold is in the Championship, while all the players you mentioned are in League One, not in Europe and nowhere close to getting sign by a premier league side. :)
 
Forest may well get lucky, but this is bonkers. A third division player who was dropped for our fixture for not being able to last 90mins? £5m? And it's a second division club buying him?

Crazy Kuwaiti money, Psycho at the helm... What could possibly go wrong?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bell4
If you were the owners ?
2 3
Replies
68
Views
4K
John Street West Terrace
John Street West Terrace
T
‘Bord games’ might prove costly
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Tommy_P
Tommy_P
BalticBlade
The myth of our Play Off 'curse'
2 3 4
Replies
117
Views
7K
PeterNdlovu081
PeterNdlovu081
Coolblade
A few observations from the stats (Rovers):
Replies
9
Views
1K
bakeblade
B
M
First game of the season memories
2
Replies
30
Views
540
Silent Blade
Silent Blade

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom