Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[Blade56]

every blade would’ve taken mid table.

Except we’re int bottom third

 

[Blade56]

Think the board should do some forward thinking planning. Look at the next type of manager and style they would like to see played and then talk with wilder who he would succeed in this style of play.

The only forward planning should be for them to get a DoF in asap. No way should they be in charge of firing and hiring the next manager

 

[jimmymuir]

He has done what was asked of him after our dismal start to the season. Anyone who thinks we were gonna make the playoffs after the start we had is as delusional as a Pig supporter. Yes, he has his faults. But I don't think there is anyone out there (who we could attract at the time) who'd have done as well as Wilder in getting us out of relegation danger. It's worth remembering how disgraceful our recruitment was over the summer. Was that Wilder's fault? No. When he came in, we had lost 6 matches out of 6, players' confidence were on the floor, not to mention replacing the likes of Ahmedhodzic, Souza, Rak Sakyi, Brereton Diaz, Brewster with utter shite like McGuinness, Tanganga, Soumare, Chong and Ogbene. It's not just the lack of quality we signed over the summer, it's the mentality too. This lot are utterly gutless, we don't fight, we're not resilient and while Wilder shouldn't be exempt from the blame, he's working with what he's got and I'm absolutely sure he'd like to overhaul the squad.

I understand fans are frustrated with how the season has gone (I am too), but some of the reactions regarding Wilder are frankly embarrassing and entitled. Allow him to rebuild over the summer, he knows what's required more than anybody. We won't be a soft touch next season, mark my words.

 

[Badger Blade]

Wilder doesn't get binned off at the end of this season, the owners have already had their fingers burnt on that one.

There will come a point though, maybe this time next year or the one after where we'll need to appoint a manager who delivers us some sort of success who isn't affiliated with the club in some way.

That is unless someone like McSheffrey or Collins can make the step up and we promote from within, assuming we've built a strong enough culture and identity that the club want to keep going with and to maintain some continuity. All depends on the circumstances when they come around regarding who Wilder's successor will eventually be as to whether he steps aside when he's had enough or gets the boot.

Selles was too big of a jump away from what the club and the players were used to, alongside the lack of due diligence when it came to his abilities and that of any other potential candidates.

 

[Blade56]

Anyone who thinks we were gonna make the playoffs after the start we had is as delusional as a Pig supporter.

You wouldn’t have said that 6 games back

 

[Shadota]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

 

[Blade56]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

It’s not just Wilder. The whole set up needs looking at. Tactics and ability mid game to change tactics, fitness, hiring, etc. whole thing needs refreshing

 

[Shadota]

It’s not just Wilder. The whole set up needs looking at. Tactics and ability mid game to change tactics, fitness, hiring, etc. whole thing needs refreshing

I agree. I just realised I'd waffled on for long enough just referring to Wilder that I didn't fancy rambling on about the rest of it. Total shambles though for certain

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

I think that's perhaps the best written and most sensibly argued post I've ever seen on here.

 

[LBA_Blade]

It’s easy to say “Wilder out,” but it’s much harder to name someone clearly better and gettable.

Russell Martin? No awful at Southampton & a disaster at Rangers.

Mark Robins, John Eustace & Steve Cooper I like him. He’s done great things at Derby and Blackburn, but i doubt they would leave Stoke, Derby or Brondby

Sean Dyche isn’t coming. & Lincoln Manager isnt leaving after hes like going to be worshipped like a god after this season

Ryan Mason not exactly inspirational, & he was poor at West Brom.

Gary Rowett has done good things in the past, but has his time come and gone?

Will Still I’m sure he’ll come good, but it’s a huge gamble. I’d rather have Wilder over those 2 right now.

You can go foreign, but that’s a big gamble as well. 2 Americans came in with big reputations, crashed & burned at Celtic and West Brom. came & went inside 6 weeks. Philippe Clement struggled badly at Rangers but now looks decent at Norwich. Then there’s Ruben Selles, who got us into this mess in the first place.

We need stability more than we’ve had for a long time. It’s our first season without parachute payments since 2018.

Is there anyone realistically available who you’d trust more than Wilder to handle a tighter-budget rebuild. so Unless there’s a genuinely better, realistic option out there, sticking with Wilder for a proper season feels like the sensible call.

He’s earned the right to a proper season, not just a rescue job. just on that 15 game spell between Hillsborough & Middlesbrough. we showed how entertaining we can be

If we were ambitious and wanted to try and roll the dice with a big money manager spend Enzo Maresca, is about, although the chance of him being at Bramall Lane is highly unlikely but saying that he did well with Leicester 3 manager of the months in 5 months and a 4th in April along with promotion in the Championship. Not a likely candidate here as his name isn't bladey enough but we can dream. The managers available are either a gamble for being too young or too out of the box (not from Yorkshire) or too old and dinosaurs like Big Sam.

 

[54yrblade]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

Simply excellent. Well written, evidenced and factual

Thank you

 

[Back post bob]

My wish would be Newcastle sack Eddie Howe and we bring him in along with Tindall.Give them two full seasons at least to change the club.
I would ask everyone where do you want our club to play?
Yoyo club
Top six challenging in the championship
Mid table premiership
We have to be realistic in what we want

 

[CPB]

My wish would be Newcastle sack Eddie Howe and we bring him in along with Tindall.Give them two full seasons at least to change the club.
I would ask everyone where do you want our club to play?
Yoyo club
Top six challenging in the championship
Mid table premiership
We have to be realistic in what we want

I am in the camp of having a bit of stability and letting wilder have a crack next season.

It's going to depend on who comes in and out and if there are any changes to how we want to play a bit next season. As to whether what type of campaign we will have next term.

But I'm not in the Wilder out camp. However Eddie Howe and Tindall would be fantastic appointments.
Thing is, if they were to be relieved of Newcastle duties. They will have far better offers than us right now. They could even just bide their time till early next season for one of the first PL managers to be sacked.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The talk about managers is totally misplaced. The issue is players. Fitness, lack of depth and a lack of basic quality in all areas.The last time we had a half decent 17 (with a chronic lack of depth for large parts of the season) we finished 3rd and were the best side in the play offs.

The real issues are:

Can we get the litany of expensive poor signings on big wages out?

Will any of the long term injured on long term deals return to pre injury levels? If not put them with the above.

How many of our assets (including the academy lads brilliantly developed by the management incidentally) still be here.

Is there money there to replace any outgoing quality and to sign new players without sales?

Most of the above will be undermined by paying of a manager and staff reducing the money available to bring in vitally needed better players i.e. the obvious priority.

If the answer is four no's we're in a very difficult spot.

 

[The Fox]

I just want the wilder cycle to stop .

He's a decent manager who's heart is in the club and a decent bloke by all accounts but we keep reliving the same thing .

We have a decent run of matches but then we return to type , become predictable, cautious , see weird team selections, weirder subs , poor discipline, poor fitness , excuses , wider in v wilder out arguments .

( not always in that order but the same ingredients)

Ive got a bit bored watching it all unfold again .

Id rather just have a clean break and not go around this circle again.

Make it to the end of the season and move on .

 

[Rudders]

The talk about managers is totally misplaced. The issue is players. Fitness, lack of depth and a lack of basic quality in all areas.The last time we had a half decent 17 (with a chronic lack of depth for large parts of the season) we finished 3rd and were the best side in the play offs.

The real issues are:

Can we get the litany of expensive poor signings on big wages out?

Will any of the long term injured on long term deals return to pre injury levels? If not put them with the above.

How many of our assets (including the academy lads brilliantly developed by the management incidentally) still be here.

Is there money there to replace any outgoing quality and to sign new players without sales?

Most of the above will be undermined by paying of a manager and staff reducing the money available to bring in vitally needed better players i.e. the obvious priority.

If the answer is four no's we're in a very difficult spot.

On transfers in we need to stop thinking about ‘prem or champ experience’ and instead target younger players with leadership and athletic attributes, like Wilder did in 2017/18. Unfortunately this time round he hasn’t got the luxury of Positive Nige binning off most of the dross in advance to clear the decks to enable this to happen. Will Wilder be ruthless enough; or will he continue to give sicknotes one last payday. Last time I looked we needed to get rid of about 15 players

 

[ancientblade]

we wont be sacking wilder hes got the summer to clear out the dross and bring 5/6 new players in then i reckon if were not challenging for top 6 by the end of october he will be gone imo personally i think hes a busted flush a mere shadow of the manager of 10 years ago

 

[nopigfansintown]

On transfers in we need to stop thinking about ‘prem or champ experience’ and instead target younger players with leadership and athletic attributes, like Wilder did in 2017/18. Unfortunately this time round he hasn’t got the luxury of Positive Nige binning off most of the dross in advance to clear the decks to enable this to happen. Will Wilder be ruthless enough; or will he continue to give sicknotes one last payday. Last time I looked we needed to get rid of about 15 players

I agree but I also think it's more difficult at this level. We aren't developing players in L1. They have to be able to contribute in the here and now at Champ level. The young players that have that obvious potential cost big £ if they're young. If a Champ rival wanted Seriki, Brooks etc from us it'd cost them big £. Cooper and Burrows cost 5m combined. If you aren't going to compete on that level it's loans and frees. The latter tend to be more experienced.

 

[Keen Blade]

The problem with that is we will have wasted a whole season and then be stuck with all Wilder's signings on 3 year plus contracts.
It's not best for everyone though, there are already people me included that are thinking about not renewing or definitely not going to renew season tickets.

It should have been the end for him after Wembley he blew that big style.
Nothing he has shown since he has come back has convinced me he deserves another crack, yes it looks like he will keep us up, but any half decent manager should have been able too do that with this set of players.
His limitations are still there poor signings in January, substitutions that have no positive impact on games, and his inability to change tactics in games except for dropping everyone back to try and cling on.

It looks like a few players will leave either because they won't sign a new contract or because we have a drop in income, so it makes sense too have a clean sweep now.
Do I trust the board to get it right, no not after last time, but that is no reason to stick with what we have got especially has it's not working.

The owners need to put the work in and have a plan, talk to people who know the English game. Take Harry Redknapp out for some jam roly poly, even fellow American owners of English clubs.

I also think a DOF who knows the English game would help, but please not someone who has some connection to United and definitely not Wilder.

It's a much bigger question than
"Wilder or not"
It's an existential question for the owners
"how serious are you about this club ?"

The cameo by Rosen in the fanzone left me totally deflated.
Coz his honeyed words about Wilder & Sharp leave me with the impression that he & co-owners are frankly
"not that bothered".
They've made one ridiculous fuckup after another in Summer '25 and are now content to let the club vegetate under the Director Bettis/Wilder axis of old pals mediocrity.
Let's just recap Summer '25 :
They take ages bickering about sacking Wilder.
They don't implement a better structure.
But then they sack him without a new structure.
Then they appoint an idiot who's left with no idea how to recruit.
So we get a pile of shit in a panic in the closing window.
Somewhere along the line they promote Bettis to Director , confirming no new structure or even new approach.
Then they sack Selles , who'll have nothing but resentment from Bettis over the sacking of his mate.
And crawl back to Wilder , putting him & Bettis in an almost impregnable position.
With the free hit of this season coz it's not been his window.

The whole scenario adds up to very little interest in reshaping the club for success under their ownership.

They let Wilder make a dogs breakfast of the January window and then reassure the fans that it'll be Wilder followed by Sharp for the foreseeable future.

No way to run a business - they haven't even had a man at the Lane acquainting himself with UK soccer ball.

Very depressing really.

 

[Darren William]

I just want the wilder cycle to stop .

He's a decent manager who's heart is in the club and a decent bloke by all accounts but we keep reliving the same thing .

We have a decent run of matches but then we return to type , become predictable, cautious , see weird team selections, weirder subs , poor discipline, poor fitness , excuses , wider in v wilder out arguments .

( not always in that order but the same ingredients)

Ive got a bit bored watching it all unfold again .

Id rather just have a clean break and not go around this circle again.

Make it to the end of the season and move on .

The three signings in jan should have pushed united on to the playoffs surely NO impact the 2 both of them anyway ,both sent off on there 1st or 2nd match ,if we didn't get bamford we probably down ,all this if wilder had been in charge from start we'd be in playoffs i was thinking same after jan honestly was but would we had been in playoffs had wilder been in charge from start i really struggling to agree now !.

 

[Bartleby]

It's a much bigger question than
"Wilder or not"
It's an existential question for the owners
"how serious are you about this club ?"

The cameo by Rosen in the fanzone left me totally deflated.
Coz his honeyed words about Wilder & Sharp leave me with the impression that he & co-owners are frankly
"not that bothered".
They've made one ridiculous fuckup after another in Summer '25 and are now content to let the club vegetate under the Director Bettis/Wilder axis of old pals mediocrity.
Let's just recap Summer '25 :
They take ages bickering about sacking Wilder.
They don't implement a better structure.
But then they sack him without a new structure.
Then they appoint an idiot who's left with no idea how to recruit.
So we get a pile of shit in a panic in the closing window.
Somewhere along the line they promote Bettis to Director , confirming no new structure or even new approach.
Then they sack Selles , who'll have nothing but resentment from Bettis over the sacking of his mate.
And crawl back to Wilder , putting him & Bettis in an almost impregnable position.
With the free hit of this season coz it's not been his window.

The whole scenario adds up to very little interest in reshaping the club for success under their ownership.

They let Wilder make a dogs breakfast of the January window and then reassure the fans that it'll be Wilder followed by Sharp for the foreseeable future.

No way to run a business - they haven't even had a man at the Lane acquainting himself with UK soccer ball.

Very depressing really.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

Oi peakblade. Instead of laughing at this excellently written post, which I’ve noticed is your thing and frankly makes you look a bit of a fool, why don’t you try actually responding to it with your own view?

 

[Tom Bott]

I'm not defending him ,but the truth is Selles was the wrong choice with hindsight (obviously), new club, relatively inexperienced as a manager, didn't know the players etc, had to face Boro, Bristol City, Millwall & Ipswich in his first 5 games, 3 of which have been near the top all season, owners reacted early enough for anyone to have time to save us imo.

Notts forest - 4 managers this season (so far)

Tottenham Hotspurs - 3 managers this season (so far)

Both clubs have a DOF.

How has flipping managers/DOF's benefitted either club?

 

[ATL Recs]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

Excellent post

 

[Tom Bott]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

Excellent post.

Though you could argue that when Wilder came back the summer before last we required a full squad rebuild, yet PA was more interested in selling the club, and as evidenced by the 2 point penalty, had run out of money.

Last summer Wilder was dismissed, and had to rely on a squad of players hoovered up in a 'whoose available get them signed' strategy upon his return.

I feel Wilder deserves another window to assemble at least some form of defence for the team.
I don't think we've actually progressed from Robinson and Egan. Souttar being an obvious upgrade and after his injury a notable decline in form last season.

Next season we are hamstrung with no parachute payments and have no idea if the new owners are prepared to 'invest' more money.

 

[Bladedog]

So he gets a free pass for taking players who should’ve been performing anyway and making them win a few games?

Fine. Well done Wilder.

Now maybe we can address the consistent poor performances that were overlooked last season because we were marginally winning, the collapse and frankly embarrassing pre-match interviews where he disrespected the opposition, the complete lack of a plan and consistent absence of any form of squad discipline.

This season has been a joke managerially, and Selles was the wrong choice. Now, in context, he’d managed a handful of games and was trying something new, something we’d been crying out for. Wilder has come in done the bare minimum to ensure we’re a championship side next season, but his complete lack of idea on how to set up these players, never mind change a tactic on the fly, means we’re a weak, soft as shite lower half team.

Where’s the fight? Where’s the passion? And most crucially, where’s the fucking ACCOUNTABILITY? The first two are things Wilder is known for, be he looks devoid of ideas and happy to blame everyone else. It’s YOUR fault Wilder, you’re in charge of the team.

As fans we need patience over a season or two, to set the groundwork for a well run club. That starts with owners having a structure and not caving to poor results and running back to safe hands Wilder. It needs a manager who can mould what he has, not shrug his shoulders and walk away. It needs leaders on the pitch to grab these youngsters and guide their development, instead of being thrown under the bus when they naturally make mistakes.

Saturday versus Wrexham, we all knew what was going to happen. We all knew. Wilder isn’t stupid, he must’ve seen what we were seeing.

The difference is he’s in charge and can change it. We can’t.

"I take full responsibility and accountability "...Liam rosenior after losing Saturday at Everton..not something we,re ever likely to hear from Wilder..

 

[Keen Blade]

Taking it down to the simplest way of expressing the deficiency in structure ,

Who reviews Wilder's performance either now or in the future ?

Not the owners - they've married him.
And anyway , they've already proved they're clueless.

Not the only UK based Director - Bettis - they're old pals FFS.

He has free reign to do whatever he likes and give coaching & fitness & scouting jobs to whoever he likes.

There is no constructive criticism , let alone effective control.

He can't abide either.

It's pretty obvious from his interviews in which nothing is ever his fault.

Whilst accepting that he loves the club , that's not the job unfortunately.

 

[SB_90]

I don't think we can expect any real degree of improvement if we stick with Wilder. Given how things have gone with him in charge since he replaced Hecky, I think the performances we're seeing on the pitch currently, are what we will get next season as well, just with different people on the pitch for us to complain about.

I've seen comments from many people on here, referencing how Wilder has pulled us clear of relegation from the Championship, following the Selles disaster at the start of the season. And while that is true, that doesn't mean that Wilder coming back was the best choice. And I'd look toward a couple of other Championship sides as perfect demonstrations that getting a different man can also be successful.

First, Norwich. Last season, they initially had Johannes Hoff Thorup as manager, replacing David Wagner. He left in April, the season being completed under Jack Wilshere. They proceeded to hire Liam Manning for this season. I liked him at Brizzle for what it's worth - they played smart football, and in both league fixtures they gave us a real tough time. But it didn't work out for him, and he left in November. Rather than going back to Thorup or Wilshere, they hired Philippe Clement as their new boss (probably best known for his prior poor spell in charge of Rangers).

Since his appointment, Norwich have earned 45 points in 24 matches in the league, a rate of 1.875 points per game. If you extrapolate that out to the 39 matches played by most teams in the league at this stage, it is just over 73 points. That would be enough for 2nd position.

Secondly, Southampton. Newly relegated from the PL, they hired Will Still in the summer, who was dismissed again in November. Rather than rehiring Russell Martin or Ivan Juric, who both managed Saints last year, they moved Tonda Eckert up from their U21s to be (initially) interim manager. He then was made permanent after 4 wins from 5 while in interim charge.

Eckert has now led them to 51 points from 26 matches, at a rate of approx. 1.96 ppg. Again, using that value across 39 games played so far, Saints would be looking at approx. 76 points earned, and challenging Coventry for the Championship title.

Meanwhile, as we all know, Selles managed 6 games for us, was sacked Sep 14th after the thrashing at Ipswich, and Wilder came back. Since his return, Wilder has earned 50 points from 34 games, at a rate of approx. 1.47 ppg. As I've done for the above managers, across 39 matches this equates to just over 57 points, a tally which would be good enough for 9th place in the current Championship table.

Now I will concede, not every club is the same. Some teams will thrive from a previous manager returning, while others will stagnate, and the same can be said for a new face taking charge. But I feel it is worth noting that both Norwich and Southampton seem to have especially thrived in an offensive sense since their current managers took charge. Both teams have struck 5 goals in a game at least once each, both have won multiple matches by margins of 2+ goals. And the comeback win by Southampton from 3 goals down away at Leicester, shows a level of mental strength that I do not believe anyone in our squad actually possesses. Not since pre-Covid have I seen a Sheffield United side led by Chris Wilder, which l believed capable of any of these feats. At present, we are far more likely to be on the receiving end of these stats. And we have been (Wrexham away for example - conceded 5, lost by multiple goals, and lost from a significant advantage all in the same game).

I do not think Wilder is a "bad" manager. In the past, he has been an exceptional manager. But the Wilder we see now, is not the same man that led Oxford back to the Football League. He is not the same man that led Northampton to the League 2 title, despite the clubs desperate financial troubles. He is not the same man that dragged Sheffield United out of League 1 hibernation, and into the Premier League limelight. He is not the same man that won the LMA Manager of the Year award, ahead of the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. And I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

If we do not want to stagnate, that reality needs to be accepted, sooner rather than later.

i fully agree all this but June 2027. wilder is temporary. i know that, but lets not underestimate the undertaking of next season.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Notts forest - 4 managers this season (so far)

Tottenham Hotspurs - 3 managers this season (so far)

Both clubs have a DOF.

How has flipping managers/DOF's benefitted either club?

DOF is seen as the great panacea. The reality is that the vast majority fail, divert club funds to paying them off (manager level salaries meaning you essentially have two management level salaries) and muddy the waters. They also create a complex situation when it comes to accountability and apportioning blame for sporting performance. The DOF will always blame the first team football staff for bad results, and the football staff the opposite. There's one winner there unless the board step in. We had a quasi DOF type situation under Selles. Who was really to blame? Him for his terrible football decisions or the intercession of non football staff in transfers? Both? The board stepped in and removed the manager and the transfer "gurus"

Why is the season a failure. Who is to blame for issue a, b, c, d, etc?

They have an upside if you get a good one, but so do old school managers. The good points of a DOF can be taken on by other staff at a club too. Or by the ownership if they have a football brain. Continuity in football style between managers for one doesn't require a DOF. Basic transfer principles don't require one.

 

[Big.Dane.w]

Should have gone for carrick or Edward's last June, I’d even try for Lampard when cov sack him half way through next season.