New head scout - Jamie Hoyland

[Carlton Blade]

I didn't realise you were including wages in that sum, I thought you just meant transfer fees.

Nah. For all the slagging off Wilder, rightly takes for everything post PL promotion, he got the club promoted on a £0 net transfer spend

 

[Brian Deane]

Definitely need some more luck and a return to the clearer headed thinking that was prevalent before PL promotion.

I just have no idea what the plan is now tbh. What sort of players do they want etc

I thought the plan mentioned a while ago was to buy up and coming young decent players with a view to improving both the first team and the players value ?
Looks like it has not worked out how they hoped.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I thought the plan mentioned a while ago was to buy up and coming young decent players with a view to improving both the first team and the players value ?
Looks like it has not worked out how they hoped.

I reckon me and you could have come up with the "buy good players and then sell them" plan!!

I'm hoping a bit more thought has gone into it. We'll see

 

[Brian Deane]

I reckon me and you could have come up with the "buy good players and then sell them" plan!!

I'm hoping a bit more thought has gone into it. We'll see

Just don't hold your breath Think this is going to be a very bumpy ride during the close season so hold on tight and close your eyes

 

[KMC-1889]

It’s been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d look into this absolute frauds history.

He became Everton’s chief scout in 2020 after being promoted from U23 Scout, which feels like a bizarre job title for an age group that doesn’t really exist. Either way you assume he was promoted because he has a track record of spotting emerging talent.

From 2020 Everton signed the following:

• Ben Godfrey (Norwich, £27m)
• Allan (Napoli, £25m)
• Abdoilaye Doucoure (Watford, £22m)
• Niels Nkounkou (Bournemouth, £270k)
• James Rodriquez (Real Madrid, £Free)
• Josh King (Bournemouth, Undisclosed)
• Vitaliy Mykolenko (Dynamo Kiev, £23m)
• Nathan Patterson (Rangers, £14m)
• Demarai Gray (Leverkusen, £2m)
• Dele Alli (Free)
• Andros Townsend (Free)
• Asmir Begovic (free)
• Andy Lonergan (free)
• Salomon Rondon (free)
• Amadou Onana (Lille, £40m)
• Dwight McNeil (Burnley, £17m)
• Neal Maupay (Brighton, £12m)
• James Garner (Man Utd, £10m)
• Idrissa Gueye (PSG, £4m)
• James Tarkowski (Burnley, free)
• Beto (Udinese, £25m)
• Youssef Chermiti (Sporting, £12m)
• Armaut Danjuma (Villarreal, Loan)
• Ashley Young (free)
• Jack Harrison (Leeds, Loan)

That is an absolute horror show, the only player they managed to recover any money from was Allan. He was also there when they promoted Cannon & Holgate to the first team.

Get him and Bettis out of the club.

 

[Pintor75]

It’s been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d look into this absolute frauds history.

He became Everton’s chief scout in 2020 after being promoted from U23 Scout, which feels like a bizarre job title for an age group that doesn’t really exist. Either way you assume he was promoted because he has a track record of spotting emerging talent.

From 2020 Everton signed the following:

• Ben Godfrey (Norwich, £27m)
• Allan (Napoli, £25m)
• Abdoilaye Doucoure (Watford, £22m)
• Niels Nkounkou (Bournemouth, £270k)
• James Rodriquez (Real Madrid, £Free)
• Josh King (Bournemouth, Undisclosed)
• Vitaliy Mykolenko (Dynamo Kiev, £23m)
• Nathan Patterson (Rangers, £14m)
• Demarai Gray (Leverkusen, £2m)
• Dele Alli (Free)
• Andros Townsend (Free)
• Asmir Begovic (free)
• Andy Lonergan (free)
• Salomon Rondon (free)
• Amadou Onana (Lille, £40m)
• Dwight McNeil (Burnley, £17m)
• Neal Maupay (Brighton, £12m)
• James Garner (Man Utd, £10m)
• Idrissa Gueye (PSG, £4m)
• James Tarkowski (Burnley, free)
• Beto (Udinese, £25m)
• Youssef Chermiti (Sporting, £12m)
• Armaut Danjuma (Villarreal, Loan)
• Ashley Young (free)
• Jack Harrison (Leeds, Loan)

That is an absolute horror show, the only player they managed to recover any money from was Allan. He was also there when they promoted Cannon & Holgate to the first team.

Get him and Bettis out of the club.

Like Wilder types, trying to make a diamond from a turd, no wonder we're crap at signings

 

[KMC-1889]

Like Wilder types, trying to make a diamond from a turd, no wonder we're crap at signings

I don’t mind it if it’s picking a load of cheap/free signings but look at some of they money he’s spent there and with us.

I can only assume he’s a bit of a yes man and will just go along with whatever the manager fancies at the time. You can see as Everton changed their manager the profile of player changes to suit.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Godfrey 27m wtf

 

[TJ blade]

Godfrey 27m wtf

Thats a sacking offence surely!

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

It’s been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d look into this absolute frauds history.

He became Everton’s chief scout in 2020 after being promoted from U23 Scout, which feels like a bizarre job title for an age group that doesn’t really exist. Either way you assume he was promoted because he has a track record of spotting emerging talent.

From 2020 Everton signed the following:

• Ben Godfrey (Norwich, £27m)
• Allan (Napoli, £25m)
• Abdoilaye Doucoure (Watford, £22m)
• Niels Nkounkou (Bournemouth, £270k)
• James Rodriquez (Real Madrid, £Free)
• Josh King (Bournemouth, Undisclosed)
• Vitaliy Mykolenko (Dynamo Kiev, £23m)
• Nathan Patterson (Rangers, £14m)
• Demarai Gray (Leverkusen, £2m)
• Dele Alli (Free)
• Andros Townsend (Free)
• Asmir Begovic (free)
• Andy Lonergan (free)
• Salomon Rondon (free)
• Amadou Onana (Lille, £40m)
• Dwight McNeil (Burnley, £17m)
• Neal Maupay (Brighton, £12m)
• James Garner (Man Utd, £10m)
• Idrissa Gueye (PSG, £4m)
• James Tarkowski (Burnley, free)
• Beto (Udinese, £25m)
• Youssef Chermiti (Sporting, £12m)
• Armaut Danjuma (Villarreal, Loan)
• Ashley Young (free)
• Jack Harrison (Leeds, Loan)

That is an absolute horror show, the only player they managed to recover any money from was Allan. He was also there when they promoted Cannon & Holgate to the first team.

Get him and Bettis out of the club.

Horrific reading. What was his record like pre Everton?

 

[Rodders]

It’s been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d look into this absolute frauds history.

He became Everton’s chief scout in 2020 after being promoted from U23 Scout, which feels like a bizarre job title for an age group that doesn’t really exist. Either way you assume he was promoted because he has a track record of spotting emerging talent.

From 2020 Everton signed the following:

• Ben Godfrey (Norwich, £27m)
• Allan (Napoli, £25m)
• Abdoilaye Doucoure (Watford, £22m)
• Niels Nkounkou (Bournemouth, £270k)
• James Rodriquez (Real Madrid, £Free)
• Josh King (Bournemouth, Undisclosed)
• Vitaliy Mykolenko (Dynamo Kiev, £23m)
• Nathan Patterson (Rangers, £14m)
• Demarai Gray (Leverkusen, £2m)
• Dele Alli (Free)
• Andros Townsend (Free)
• Asmir Begovic (free)
• Andy Lonergan (free)
• Salomon Rondon (free)
• Amadou Onana (Lille, £40m)
• Dwight McNeil (Burnley, £17m)
• Neal Maupay (Brighton, £12m)
• James Garner (Man Utd, £10m)
• Idrissa Gueye (PSG, £4m)
• James Tarkowski (Burnley, free)
• Beto (Udinese, £25m)
• Youssef Chermiti (Sporting, £12m)
• Armaut Danjuma (Villarreal, Loan)
• Ashley Young (free)
• Jack Harrison (Leeds, Loan)

That is an absolute horror show, the only player they managed to recover any money from was Allan. He was also there when they promoted Cannon & Holgate to the first team.

Get him and Bettis out of the club.

I think it’s fair to say he may not have been involved in the James Rodriguez deal

 

[KMC-1889]

Horrific reading. What was his record like pre Everton?

There isn’t one, he was a scout for the national youth teams.

Jamie Hoyland - Manager profile

This is the profile site of the manager Jamie Hoyland. The site lists all clubs he coached and all clubs he played for.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

It was explains our shambles of a recruitment strategy and why the owners were forced into trying something new.

 

[SwissBlade]

There isn’t one, he was a scout for the national youth teams.

Jamie Hoyland - Manager profile

This is the profile site of the manager Jamie Hoyland. The site lists all clubs he coached and all clubs he played for.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

It was explains our shambles of a recruitment strategy and why the owners were forced into trying something new.

Oh so we didn’t use AI then…

 

[KMC-1889]

Oh so we didn’t use AI then…

That’s what I mean. Given Hoyland’s lack of knowledge & experience and poor track record they must have felt like they needed something different and got duped into this Short Circuit Science bollocks.

You can see from the profile of players that Hoyland had a lot more to do with the summer window than Selles did, despite how reluctant everyone is to admit it.

 

[b1ade4life]

Thats a sacking offence surely!

Blindfold and shot at dawn

 

[AWetFlannel]

That’s what I mean. Given Hoyland’s lack of knowledge & experience and poor track record they must have felt like they needed something different and got duped into this Short Circuit Science bollocks.

You can see from the profile of players that Hoyland had a lot more to do with the summer window than Selles did, despite how reluctant everyone is to admit it.

Selles? Hoyland? Bord? Others?

As ever, we don't know. Or I don't, at least.

 

[SwissBlade]

That’s what I mean. Given Hoyland’s lack of knowledge & experience and poor track record they must have felt like they needed something different and got duped into this Short Circuit Science bollocks.

You can see from the profile of players that Hoyland had a lot more to do with the summer window than Selles did, despite how reluctant everyone is to admit it.

Got duped into using Bords Short Circuit because COH looked at Everton’s recruitment?
Why not just sack him?
Hoyland is Chief Scout isn’t he?
Mike Allen is head of recruitment, isn’t he?

 

[Shawy24]

Got duped into using Bords Short Circuit because COH looked at Everton’s recruitment?
Why not just sack him?
Hoyland is Chief Scout isn’t he?
Mike Allen is head of recruitment, isn’t he?

I think we need a Boss Hog Hot Hat FH Special to get to the bottom of this. Bring it on FH team. ( wherever you are hiding).

 

[Loco Blade]

It’s been bugging me for a while so I thought I’d look into this absolute frauds history.

He became Everton’s chief scout in 2020 after being promoted from U23 Scout, which feels like a bizarre job title for an age group that doesn’t really exist. Either way you assume he was promoted because he has a track record of spotting emerging talent.

From 2020 Everton signed the following:

• Ben Godfrey (Norwich, £27m)
• Allan (Napoli, £25m)
• Abdoilaye Doucoure (Watford, £22m)
• Niels Nkounkou (Bournemouth, £270k)
• James Rodriquez (Real Madrid, £Free)
• Josh King (Bournemouth, Undisclosed)
• Vitaliy Mykolenko (Dynamo Kiev, £23m)
• Nathan Patterson (Rangers, £14m)
• Demarai Gray (Leverkusen, £2m)
• Dele Alli (Free)
• Andros Townsend (Free)
• Asmir Begovic (free)
• Andy Lonergan (free)
• Salomon Rondon (free)
• Amadou Onana (Lille, £40m)
• Dwight McNeil (Burnley, £17m)
• Neal Maupay (Brighton, £12m)
• James Garner (Man Utd, £10m)
• Idrissa Gueye (PSG, £4m)
• James Tarkowski (Burnley, free)
• Beto (Udinese, £25m)
• Youssef Chermiti (Sporting, £12m)
• Armaut Danjuma (Villarreal, Loan)
• Ashley Young (free)
• Jack Harrison (Leeds, Loan)

That is an absolute horror show, the only player they managed to recover any money from was Allan. He was also there when they promoted Cannon & Holgate to the first team.

Get him and Bettis out of the club.

I bet if we had a raffle on the south stand and kop and the winner and runner up respectively got to be chief exec and head scout we could do no worse . Clowns
The club will never pass muster until we do then the pressure goes on the coach / manager as it should be . UTB

 

[Weasel]

Whoevere recommended most of our summer signings should be told to clear out their locker and dont come back to SUFC. Not fit to do their job if thats the best they could come up with. Matos, McGuinness, an unfit winger from Ipswich, Ben Godfrey...ffs. What a waste of money we have spunked away this summer on absolute shazzle.

 

[Striker]

This is why the manager should have the ultimate decision when recruiting players.
Whether or not the signings were down to Hoyland, Selles accepted them and deserved his fate, if only for being such Pussy.

 

[Keen Blade]

Whoevere recommended most of our summer signings should be told to clear out their locker and dont come back to SUFC. Not fit to do their job if thats the best they could come up with. Matos, McGuinness, an unfit winger from Ipswich, Ben Godfrey...ffs. What a waste of money we have spunked away this summer on absolute shazzle.

And yet on another thread you defend Bettis , who presides over this shitshow.

With parachutes we have been a £ multimillion company run by a bunch of incompetents with all the acumen of a dead slug.
Just take Ben fucking Godfrey as an example - Holland recruited him for Everton - he must have been able to assess the consequences - then at the Lane , he recruits him on ridiculous wages and he looks like shite and plays a couple of games for us on a contract worth at least £1m

This is either bent or (if you're if a sympathetic mind) the actions of a clown.

Since foreign ownership , we are a badly controlled business which has made some suicidally bad decisions , wasting all of our PL rewards and ending up now as a borassic championship club with a lot of expensive mediocre recruits , hardly any of whom are on an upward trajectory in their careers.

Apart from Bamford the only shining lights are our home-grown lads and we better wise up and not lose them

 

[KMC-1889]

This is why the manager should have the ultimate decision when recruiting players.
Whether or not the signings were down to Hoyland, Selles accepted them and deserved his fate, if only for being such Pussy.

Strongly disagree with this.

It should be a committee, with the manager defining the attributes he needs for his team and the scouting/data team finding players to meet that profile to submit back to the manager and CEO for approval.

Look at the mess that teams get themselves into recruiting for a manager that isn’t there 18 months later. It needs to be a balanced approach in the best long term interests of club.

 

[KMC-1889]

And yet on another thread you defend Bettis , who presides over this shitshow.

With parachutes we have been a £ multimillion company run by a bunch of incompetents with all the acumen of a dead slug.
Just take Ben fucking Godfrey as an example - Holland recruited him for Everton - he must have been able to assess the consequences - then at the Lane , he recruits him on ridiculous wages and he looks like shite and plays a couple of games for us on a contract worth at least £1m

This is either bent or (if you're if a sympathetic mind) the actions of a clown.

Since foreign ownership , we are a badly controlled business which has made some suicidally bad decisions , wasting all of our PL rewards and ending up now as a borassic championship club with a lot of expensive mediocre recruits , hardly any of whom are on an upward trajectory in their careers.

Apart from Bamford the only shining lights are our home-grown lads and we better wise up and not lose them

I think you have to apply occum’s razor and work on the assumption they don’t know what they’re doing rather than actively trying to harm the club.

Someone with Hoyland’s CV shouldn’t have been anywhere near Everton or United, his only qualification is that he played for us in the 90s.

Allen is getting a bit of a free pass because his role is really undefined but we should probably be casting an eye on the whole team. I’m putting Hoyland front and centre as Chief Scout he should be saying to the club ‘this player isn’t good enough’, especially when he’s worked with them before.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think you have to apply occum’s razor and work on the assumption they don’t know what they’re doing rather than actively trying to harm the club.

Someone with Hoyland’s CV shouldn’t have been anywhere near Everton or United, his only qualification is that he played for us in the 90s.

Allen is getting a bit of a free pass because his role is really undefined but we should probably be casting an eye on the whole team. I’m putting Hoyland front and centre as Chief Scout he should be saying to the club ‘this player isn’t good enough’, especially when he’s worked with them before.

Allen’s role is defined. Hoylands role is defined. Their titles are pretty self explanatory, I’m not sure what’s unclear.

The AI role, that of Bord and Short Circuit has also recently been further detailed and was very clearly behind a number of poor signings

There are obviously some grey areas and cross over of roles and responsibilities. The final decision to finance deals will come down to Bettis as CEO and COH to sign off on the finance of deals.

The summer recruitment was poor, a number of people and systems were involved, it’s not clear if we did any physical scouting of the signings or whether they were signed based on data.

If you’re going after Hoyland, that’s fine. But remember he was and is the Chief scout, not the head of recruitment, not the financier, not the manager / head coach. The scouts have never signed players they provide feedback and data on potential players.

 

[Rodley]

Someone with Hoyland’s CV shouldn’t have been anywhere near Everton or United, his only qualification is that he played for us in the 90s

He was a senior FA Scout for Roy Hodgson when he was England manager. He was kept on for a spell by Southgate and also worked for the Technical team for the EPL.

What further experience or qualifications should he have for the Chief Scout role that he is missing?

 

[BalticBlade]

Anyone else remember Hoyland as a player? I could never work out what he did, apart from pop up out of nowhere every now and then to score a goal.

 

[KMC-1889]

He was a senior FA Scout for Roy Hodgson when he was England manager. He was kept on for a spell by Southgate and also worked for the Technical team for the EPL.

What further experience or qualifications should he have for the Chief Scout role that he is missing?

Maybe a bit broader experience than looking at English youth players?

 

[KMC-1889]

Allen’s role is defined. Hoylands role is defined. Their titles are pretty self explanatory, I’m not sure what’s unclear.

The AI role, that of Bord and Short Circuit has also recently been further detailed and was very clearly behind a number of poor signings

There are obviously some grey areas and cross over of roles and responsibilities. The final decision to finance deals will come down to Bettis as CEO and COH to sign off on the finance of deals.

The summer recruitment was poor, a number of people and systems were involved, it’s not clear if we did any physical scouting of the signings or whether they were signed based on data.

If you’re going after Hoyland, that’s fine. But remember he was and is the Chief scout, not the head of recruitment, not the financier, not the manager / head coach. The scouts have never signed players they provide feedback and data on potential players.

Although Allen’s role is ‘Head of Recruitment’ he is frequently (quite condescendingly in my opinion) referred to as ‘the data guy’ by wilder & Bettis, so I’m not sure how much of a say he has in proceedings.

It’s quite clear how our recruitment works and it’s nothing to do with finding the best players at good value, it’s about speaking to agents. I’m not sure you need Hoyland or Allen for that.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

Chief scouts don't sign players, and they certainly don't negotiate the fees for those players. Blaming the scout for Everton overpaying for Ben Godfrey (who, before his injuries, was decent and went on to play for England) is silly. It's even sillier to blame him for which youth players get promoted to the first team.

It's also fascinating that a guy who worked in the England set up for years and then spent the best part of a decade at a Premier League club is apparently unqualified to work for Sheffield United.